[DeTomaso] Oil cooler question

L GRAY tipo874a at msn.com
Thu Sep 13 00:03:05 EDT 2018


      Julian, which Redline gear oil were you using ? They make a multitude of gear lubes for specific uses. 
     Myself and several IMSA racers have switched from dunk oil to the specific Redline I recommended for their application. 
      I get it, loosing gear sets get pricy so if you’ve found what works for your uses, stick with it. 
       My IMSA guys were replacing synchro rings two times an event if they got lucky ! ! ! 

Leslie A. Gray

> On Sep 12, 2018, at 4:10 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   I had bad experience with Redline in a Hewland, I kept destroying gears
>   at $350/pr, when I had it all apart and in my hands changing out
>   gears at the race track an old racer told me to switch oil brands. I
>   chose Lucas Gear Oil and haven't lost a gear since.
> 
>   Julian
>     __________________________________________________________________
> 
>   From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
>   Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
>   Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 2:38 PM
>   To: jderyke at aol.com; kenn_green at yahoo.com; pantera at vtc.net;
>   detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil cooler question
> 
>   I was told by more than one oil company that Organic oils start to
>   break
>   down about 275F and loose total lubrication at 300 degrees F. Synthetic
>   oils do not break down at all until 300F. So if you exceed 275F with
>   Dinosaur oil, change it out. I burn^1t down my oil in a ZF in 90 miles
>   at a
>   165 MPH average run. A drop of oil instantly turned to carbon upon
>   contact
>   with the external ZF polished case. The ZF Organic oil was dripping off
>   the rear back panel of the Pantera at the end of this run. This old
>   burnt
>   dinosaur oil Smelled really really bad to boot. (now I^1m beginning to
>   talk
>   like Trump)
>   I recommend the RedLine Synthetic if you want to run at the limits, but
>   they will tend to leak the synthetic oil over the organic oil types.
>   Larry Stock
>   On 9/12/18, 2:00 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso"
>   <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
>   detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>  The normal response by oil experts & real racers is, the best
>   regular
>>  oil begins to thicken and char at around 290F while Synthetic is
>   still
>>  nice 'n slippery up to maybe 310F, in friction testers. As you say,
>   the
>>  remaining problem is, even synthetic thins to the consistency of
>   cheap
>>  vodka so actual bearing lubrication is spotty even if the oil is
>>  undamaged. The other point is, instrumented engine tests by oil
>>  companies have shown that the temps we're fretting about are oil
>   pan
>>  temps while oil-in-loaded-bearing temps are consistently about 30 F
>>  higher! That's dangerous territory even with the best synthetics
>   and
>>  why prudent owners of big-power engines that get run wide open at
>   SS
>>  events etc, drive their Panteras by the pan oil temps rather than
>   flat
>>  out. IMHO, the ultimate oil cooler for such games is a full racing
>   dry
>>  sump oiling system.
>>  On an allied subject, in actual tests I ran a decade ago on our
>>  moderate bhp street '72, an instrumented ZF run at 110+ mph for
>   'quite
>>  a while' on deserted highways to 'Vegas, took nearly the whole 450
>   mile
>>  trip to get to 180F- not quite enough to evaporate condensation.
>   But it
>>  also took over 4 hrs to cool back down to a 'Vegas-ambient temp of
>   95F
>>  while parked in a covered hotel garage. I've not done it, but SS
>>  runners (93 miles long mostly flat out) tell me after a run over
>   140
>>  mph avg, the ZF case is  'hotter than morning coffee' and you are
>>  advised to not touch the case for a loong time! So if an engine oil
>>  cooler is found to be necessary, maybe a ZF cooler like the GT-40s
>   used
>>  (two different types) might also be advisable in such Panteras?
>> 
>>  Cheers- J DeRyke
>> 
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>>  To: jderyke at aol.com <jderyke at aol.com>; lplugw at hotmail.com
>>  <lplugw at hotmail.com>; pantera at vtc.net <pantera at vtc.net>;
>>  detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>  Sent: Wed, Sep 12, 2018 12:08 pm
>>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil cooler question
>>  How much does running synthetic oil help?  I assume it lubricates
>>  better at higher (and maybe lower) temperature, but there is a
>>  temperature where bearings start getting soft, something over 300
>   deg
>>  F.
>> 
>   __________________________________________________________________
>> 
>>  From: Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>  To: lplugw at hotmail.com; pantera at vtc.net;
>>  detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>  Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:25 AM
>>  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil cooler question
>>    Maybe; maybe not. Some owners running oil coolers do not use an
>   oil
>>    thermostat. Their success may be due to most of us not really
>   needing
>>    an oil cooler at all. I chose to run an oil thermostat on my
>>    experimental rig so as to not cool the oil when temperatures or
>   the
>>    conditions I'm running do not need extra-cooled oil: eg- slow
>>  driving.
>>    Note that water cooling oil WILL raise water temps (about 5F
>   while
>>    lowering oil temps about 20F); there's only so much total
>   capacity in
>>    the car's cooling system. I run a Fluidyne rad with extra cooling
>>    capacity & those numbers are what I got.
>>    As far as connecting the water cooling lines of an oil-water
>   cooler
>>  to
>>    the heater fittings on the engine, you'll have to decide if
>   changing
>>    the water flow through the cooler to less than half that designed
>   for
>>    by the engineers who built it, will work for you: 1-1/2" OD rad'
>>  lines
>>    vs 5/8" OD heater lines. Again, if it works, that may only prove
>   that
>>    the cooler wasn't needed in the first place. In my case it
>   certainly
>>    wasn't, but I wanted to see if one would lower oil temps
>>  significantly
>>    on our mostly street car.
>>    -----Original Message-----
>>    From: Larry Weston <[1]lplugw at hotmail.com>
>>    To: JFFR <[2]pantera at vtc.net>;
>   [3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>    <[4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>    Sent: Wed, Sep 12, 2018 9:43 am
>>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil cooler question
>>      If the oil cooler was plumbed in series with the cabin heater
>   lines
>>    would a thermostat even be necessary? Seems like      an
>   effective
>>  way
>>    to get cold engine oil up to operating temperature as quickly as
>>    possible and allow minimizing of    oil cooler line length at the
>>    expense of slightly longer heater hoses.
>> 
>>  __________________________________________________________________
>>      From: DeTomaso <[1][5]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
>   on
>>    behalf of
>>      JFFR <[2][6]pantera at vtc.net>
>>      Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 10:06 AM
>>      To: [3][7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil cooler question
>>      I have a Laminova oil cooler on the outlet of my radiator and
>   for
>>      street
>>      use in the desert, it does a pretty good job. When I used the
>   car
>>  on
>>      our
>>      local road course race track, oil temperatures would start
>   getting
>>    into
>>      the 240 degree area. My car has a front mounted air
>   conditioning
>>      condenser, so the area where the original condenser was located
>   was
>>      available to install an air to air DeRalle oil cooler with its
>   own
>>    fan
>>      assembly. Oil temperature is now staying around the 210 to 220
>>  degree
>>      range when the car is being tracked. My engine has a Titan oil
>   pump
>>      which was set up to compensate for the additional oil lines to
>   and
>>    from
>>      the coolers.
>>      Two oil coolers may sound like overkill, but the second oil
>   cooler
>>      which
>>      is now in the rear of the car was actually very easy to
>   install.
>>  The
>>      rear cooler fan has a thermostatic switch which doesn't come on
>>  until
>>      the oil reaches 180 degrees, which in turn doesn't allow the
>   oil to
>>    be
>>      too cold. High horse power engines generate lots of heat and
>>  cooling
>>      the
>>      oil also helps to keep the water temperature down.
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>>  6. [6]mailto:pantera at vtc.net
>>  7. [7]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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