[DeTomaso] Radiator
Steve
steve at snclocks.com
Mon Oct 29 22:28:12 EDT 2018
Hmmm - we've owned our '69 XKE for 38 years. She has 200K miles, just took
her for a 3600 mile run down through Colorado, Utah, and Idaho. And yes, I
can say that. No problem. Yup, can, and just did say that.
Stephen
From: Larry Stock [mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com]
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 6:38 PM
To: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>; steve at snclocks.com; jderyke at aol.com;
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
With Lucas components and an aluminum radiator, water pump, and heads, can
you can say that with a straight face
From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com <mailto:pantdino at aol.com> >
Date: Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:28 PM
To: <steve at snclocks.com <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> >, <jderyke at aol.com
<mailto:jderyke at aol.com> >, Larry Stock <Larrys at PanteraParts.com
<mailto:Larrys at PanteraParts.com> >, <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> >
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
I agree re the buffers / alkaline additives of antifreeze. Unless you don't
use antifreeze because your race track does not allow it, water pH is not
important.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve <steve at snclocks.com <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> >
To: jderyke <jderyke at aol.com <mailto:jderyke at aol.com> >; larrys
<larrys at panteraparts.com <mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com> >; detomaso
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>
Sent: Mon, Oct 29, 2018 1:14 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
Wow - so, sodium is desirable in softened tap water? Water softeners
trade hardness for sodium - wasn't aware that we want sodium ions in
our radiators. And, of course, there is always some residual chlorides
from the regen process.
During the regeneration process, the resin beads that remove the
calcium and magnesium (the hardness ions) in your water are flushed
with a brine solution (made from the salt you add to your tank). ...
The exact amount of sodium present in soft water will vary based on how
much hardness is being removed by the softener.
Honestly, the antifreeze you choose has enough buffering that the
acidity of DI is meaningless.
Stephen
From: jderyke at aol.com <mailto:jderyke at aol.com> [mailto:jderyke at aol.com
<mailto:jderyke at aol.com?> ]
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 12:39 PM
To: larrys at panteraparts.com <mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com> ;
steve at snclocks.com <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> ;
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
Agree with Larry. In the lab, DI water is acidic enough that we had to
use a stainless tank and lines. Check with your pH paper or you're just
guessing!
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Stock <[1]larrys at panteraparts.com
<mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com> >
To: Steve <[2]steve at snclocks.com <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> >; detomaso
<[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> >
Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 8:07
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
Actually Softened Tap water is best, then tap water, but that varies
quite
a bit. Actually The worst thing you can use is DI water which promotes
electrolysis in your cooling system.
On 10/29/18, 7:38 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Steve"
<[4]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
[5]steve at snclocks.com <mailto:steve at snclocks.com> >
wrote:
>Wow - does anyone use tap water in their radiators??? DI water is
less
>than a dollar a gallon!
>
>Stephen
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DeTomaso [mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?> ] On
>Behalf Of Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso
>Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 7:47 PM
>To: [7]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com <mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com> ;
[8]audionut at hushmail.com <mailto:audionut at hushmail.com>
>Cc: [9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
>
> Before you lay out cash to fix an aluminum radiator, check the water
in
>your area. Some parts of the U.S, in spite of the best efforts of the
>EPA, has water that is almost as corrosive as Coco-Cola! Go to a
swimming
>pool shop and get a roll of pH paper for about $2. Dip it in some tap
>water at your house- or wherever you'll be getting the water for your
>cooling system. Municipal water systems are all over the map and two
>houses next door to each other may have sources 100 miles apart. If a
>couple of quick tests show the pH is below 7.0, you MUST use an
anti-acid
>additive like Larry Stock mentioned. If its really low, a sacrificial
>anode may be needed as well. Corvette shops have been dealing with
this
>for 55 years and have everything in stock.
>
>Second thing to watch: the pressure in most of the cooling system is
less
>than 15 psi, so using an 18" wrench to tighten fittings like the
>black-iron water piping in your house is guaranteed to split or strip
>soft aluminum bosses. Use teflon tape and a gentle hand when
tightening
>things into aluminum.
>
>Finally, there a neat little test the Corvette guys have been using
since
>the mid-'60s. They have ALL had aluminum radiators since the days of
the
>split-window 'Vette, with few failures such as members of this Forum
have
>described. Take a GOOD VOM, set on the lowest voltage range, put one
lead
>in the coolant in the tank and ground the other lead. If you see more
>than about 70 millivolts, this is a measure of how fast your alloy
parts
>are dissolving. If you get no reading, your VOM is too coarse in its
>ranges. Borrow one from a TV repair shop if you must. Mine cost $250
in
>1985- a $7.95 special from Harbor Freight simply will not work. Its
like
>trying to use a yardstick to measure crank bearings.
>
>Last thought: Carrying extra weight around in your Pantera impacts
tire
>life, gas mileage, acceleration, brakes, handling and a host of other
>things; it's not 'just for racers'. Good luck- J DeRyke
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [10]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com>
<[11]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com <mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com> >
>To: audionut <[12]audionut at hushmail.com <mailto:audionut at hushmail.com> >
>CC: [13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
<[14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> >
>Sent: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 14:55
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
>
> Thanks John. Waiting to hear from the Rad shop if they can repair.
> Dave
> Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone
>
> ------ Original message------
> From: [1][15]audionut at hushmail.com <mailto:audionut at hushmail.com>
> Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2018 4:21 PM
> To: [2][16]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com> ;
> Cc:
> Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
> Hi Dave--
> I also have a 73 (stock 351 w/Holley 650). 10 years ago, with
simple
> tools, I installed a Fluidyne aluminum radiator/lay down kit and 2
> sucker fans.
> I have driven it in hot weather, bumper to bumper traffic, you name
> it-- the car has never even come close to overheating nor has it
ever
> leaked.
> I change coolant every 2 years.
> Best of luck!
> John
> 73L #5909
> Sent using Hushmail
> On 10/27/2018 at 11:46 AM,[3] [17]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com>
wrote:
>
> I might need a new radiator for my 73 pantera. Would appreciate
> suggestions on a replacement.
> Thanks,Dave
> Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone
>
>References
>
> 1. mailto:[18]audionut at hushmail.com <mailto:[18]audionut at hushmail.com?>
> 2. mailto:[19]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<mailto:[19]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?>
> 3. mailto:%[20]20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<mailto:%25[20]20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?>
>_______________________________________________
>
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>Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
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References
1. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com <mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com?>
2. mailto:steve at snclocks.com <mailto:steve at snclocks.com?>
3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com?>
4. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?>
5. mailto:steve at snclocks.com <mailto:steve at snclocks.com?>
6. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?>
7. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?>
8. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com <mailto:audionut at hushmail.com?>
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com?>
10. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?>
11. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?>
12. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com <mailto:audionut at hushmail.com?>
13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com?>
14. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com?>
15. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com <mailto:audionut at hushmail.com?>
16. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?>
17. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?>
18. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com <mailto:audionut at hushmail.com?>
19. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?>
20. mailto:20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<mailto:20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?>
21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?>
22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?>
24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
25. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?>
26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
_______________________________________________
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-------------- next part --------------
Hmmm - we've owned our '69 XKE for 38 years. She has 200K miles, just
took her for a 3600 mile run down through Colorado, Utah, and Idaho.
And yes, I can say that. No problem. Yup, can, and just did say that.
Stephen
From: Larry Stock [mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com]
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 6:38 PM
To: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>; steve at snclocks.com; jderyke at aol.com;
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
With Lucas components and an aluminum radiator, water pump, and heads,
can you can say that with a straight face
From: Pantdino <[1]pantdino at aol.com>
Date: Monday, October 29, 2018 at 6:28 PM
To: <[2]steve at snclocks.com>, <[3]jderyke at aol.com>, Larry Stock
<[4]Larrys at PanteraParts.com>, <[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
I agree re the buffers / alkaline additives of antifreeze. Unless you
don't use antifreeze because your race track does not allow it, water
pH is not important.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve <[6]steve at snclocks.com>
To: jderyke <[7]jderyke at aol.com>; larrys <[8]larrys at panteraparts.com>;
detomaso <[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 29, 2018 1:14 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
Wow - so, sodium is desirable in softened tap water? Water softeners
trade hardness for sodium - wasn't aware that we want sodium ions in
our radiators. And, of course, there is always some residual chlorides
from the regen process.
During the regeneration process, the resin beads that remove the
calcium and magnesium (the hardness ions) in your water are flushed
with a brine solution (made from the salt you add to your tank). ...
The exact amount of sodium present in soft water will vary based on how
much hardness is being removed by the softener.
Honestly, the antifreeze you choose has enough buffering that the
acidity of DI is meaningless.
Stephen
From: [10]jderyke at aol.com [[11]mailto:jderyke at aol.com]
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2018 12:39 PM
To: [12]larrys at panteraparts.com; [13]steve at snclocks.com;
[14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
Agree with Larry. In the lab, DI water is acidic enough that we had to
use a stainless tank and lines. Check with your pH paper or you're just
guessing!
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Stock <[1][15]larrys at panteraparts.com>
To: Steve <[2][16]steve at snclocks.com>; detomaso
<[3][17]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2018 8:07
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
Actually Softened Tap water is best, then tap water, but that varies
quite
a bit. Actually The worst thing you can use is DI water which promotes
electrolysis in your cooling system.
On 10/29/18, 7:38 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Steve"
<[4]detomaso-[18]bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
[5][19]steve at snclocks.com>
wrote:
>Wow - does anyone use tap water in their radiators??? DI water is
less
>than a dollar a gallon!
>
>Stephen
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DeTomaso
[[20]mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>Behalf Of Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso
>Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 7:47 PM
>To: [7][21]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com; [8][22]audionut at hushmail.com
>Cc: [9][23]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
>
> Before you lay out cash to fix an aluminum radiator, check the water
in
>your area. Some parts of the U.S, in spite of the best efforts of the
>EPA, has water that is almost as corrosive as Coco-Cola! Go to a
swimming
>pool shop and get a roll of pH paper for about $2. Dip it in some tap
>water at your house- or wherever you'll be getting the water for your
>cooling system. Municipal water systems are all over the map and two
>houses next door to each other may have sources 100 miles apart. If a
>couple of quick tests show the pH is below 7.0, you MUST use an
anti-acid
>additive like Larry Stock mentioned. If its really low, a sacrificial
>anode may be needed as well. Corvette shops have been dealing with
this
>for 55 years and have everything in stock.
>
>Second thing to watch: the pressure in most of the cooling system is
less
>than 15 psi, so using an 18" wrench to tighten fittings like the
>black-iron water piping in your house is guaranteed to split or strip
>soft aluminum bosses. Use teflon tape and a gentle hand when
tightening
>things into aluminum.
>
>Finally, there a neat little test the Corvette guys have been using
since
>the mid-'60s. They have ALL had aluminum radiators since the days of
the
>split-window 'Vette, with few failures such as members of this Forum
have
>described. Take a GOOD VOM, set on the lowest voltage range, put one
lead
>in the coolant in the tank and ground the other lead. If you see more
>than about 70 millivolts, this is a measure of how fast your alloy
parts
>are dissolving. If you get no reading, your VOM is too coarse in its
>ranges. Borrow one from a TV repair shop if you must. Mine cost $250
in
>1985- a $7.95 special from Harbor Freight simply will not work. Its
like
>trying to use a yardstick to measure crank bearings.
>
>Last thought: Carrying extra weight around in your Pantera impacts
tire
>life, gas mileage, acceleration, brakes, handling and a host of other
>things; it's not 'just for racers'. Good luck- J DeRyke
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [10][24]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<[11][25]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com>
>To: audionut <[12][26]audionut at hushmail.com>
>CC: [13][27]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<[14][28]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>Sent: Sun, 28 Oct 2018 14:55
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
>
> Thanks John. Waiting to hear from the Rad shop if they can repair.
> Dave
> Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone
>
> ------ Original message------
> From: [1][15][29]audionut at hushmail.com
> Date: Sun, Oct 28, 2018 4:21 PM
> To: [2][16][30]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com;
> Cc:
> Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Radiator
> Hi Dave--
> I also have a 73 (stock 351 w/Holley 650). 10 years ago, with
simple
> tools, I installed a Fluidyne aluminum radiator/lay down kit and 2
> sucker fans.
> I have driven it in hot weather, bumper to bumper traffic, you name
> it-- the car has never even come close to overheating nor has it
ever
> leaked.
> I change coolant every 2 years.
> Best of luck!
> John
> 73L #5909
> Sent using Hushmail
> On 10/27/2018 at 11:46 AM,[3] [17][31]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
wrote:
>
> I might need a new radiator for my 73 pantera. Would appreciate
> suggestions on a replacement.
> Thanks,Dave
> Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone
>
>References
>
> 1. [32]mailto:[18]audionut at hushmail.com
> 2. [33]mailto:[19]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
> 3. [34]mailto:%[20]20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
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>1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
[21][35]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>[22][36]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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>message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
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>They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
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References
1. [41]mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
2. [42]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
3. [43]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
4. [44]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
5. [45]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
6. [46]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
7. [47]mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
8. [48]mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
9. [49]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. [50]mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
11. [51]mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
12. [52]mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
13. [53]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. [54]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
15. [55]mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
16. [56]mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
17. [57]mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
18. [58]mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
19. [59]mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
20. [60]mailto:20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
21. [61]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
22. [62]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
23. [63]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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References
1. mailto:pantdino at aol.com
2. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
3. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
4. mailto:Larrys at PanteraParts.com
5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
7. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
8. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:jderyke at aol.com
11. mailto:jderyke at aol.com?
12. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
13. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
14. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
15. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
16. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
17. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. mailto:bounces at server.detomasolist.com
19. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
20. mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
21. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
22. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
23. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
24. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
25. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
26. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
27. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
28. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
29. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
30. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
31. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
32. mailto:[18]audionut at hushmail.com?
33. mailto:[19]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?
34. mailto:%25[20]20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?
35. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
36. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
37. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
41. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com?
42. mailto:steve at snclocks.com?
43. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
44. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
45. mailto:steve at snclocks.com?
46. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
47. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?
48. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com?
49. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
50. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?
51. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?
52. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com?
53. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
54. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
55. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com?
56. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?
57. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?
58. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com?
59. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?
60. mailto:20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com?
61. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
62. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
63. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
64. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
65. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
66. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
67. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
68. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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