[DeTomaso] AC Condenser: Front Mount vs. Stock Rear Location
Larry Stock
larrys at panteraparts.com
Sat Nov 3 11:16:50 EDT 2018
The Pantera in most any configuration seems to operate fine between 40 and
120 MPH. If you re-gear and install proper aero, I have noted that engine
running temperature doesn’t appear to typically rise past 200F until your
running over 140 MPH. from there it will continually rise to 230 at 165
MPH continuous. I would assume it to continue rising past that but I
haven’t cruised very long much past that for very long, just brief
excursions up to 200. I also don’t recommend the full lay down radiator
configurations due to all the air bending that the air needs to take to
first bend up through the radiator, then back down to exit under the car,
very turbulent at speed.
The other Larry
On 11/2/18, 10:34 PM, "Charles McCall" <charlesmccall at gmail.com> wrote:
>Larry - what would you say for a Euro-Pantera that sees extended
>long-distance trips at 90-100mph?
>
>Everything you say is true for running around town, going to shows, and
>general low-speed use. What about extended medium-speed cruising? Not
>talking Silver State and those things, just open highway use
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf Of
>Larry
>Stock
>Sent: sábado, 3 de noviembre de 2018 5:05
>To: jderyke at aol.com; scott at scottmeadphotography.com;
>detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] AC Condenser: Front Mount vs. Stock Rear Location
>
>Lets just say that I will disagree,
>I originally thought the same way but then reality set in.
>
>First the rear condenser was made twice as big as it needed to be because
>of all the airflow issues due to its location and a fan and shroud was
>added. Originally Vehicle air Conditioners used York Style Recipercal pump
>compressors that create a lot more friction and thus typically have a
>compressed gas temperature of around 400 degrees F. Hence the A/C
>Condenser AKA an After Cooler. When we upgrade to a much more efficient
>rotary compressor, our pressure head temperature is only about 200 degrees
>F, so our Condenser is now 4X larger than is actually needed. With all the
>overheating problems that Pantera¹s already have, why do we want to add
>another heated obstruction in front of our radiators at all. The Dryer
>gets located typically in the rear of the right front wheel well totally
>hidden and tough to access. By attaching the Condenser to the Radiator it
>now becomes a heat sink to the radiator, and when your warm engine is
>restarted it will blow nothing but hot air until you get underway at over
>35 MPH. You have probably experienced this in your family sedan on a hot
>day at the shopping mall, and the whole time you spend removing yourself
>from the parking lot with your interior temperature nearing 150 degrees
>sitting out in the sun, you turn on your A/C full blast and get nothing
>but hot air. Not in your Pantera, with the A/C condenser mounted remotely
>in the rear, you will get instant Cold Air. What I always tell customers,
>if it an¹t broke, why fix it.
>
>What we need to be discussing is converting that family sedan to a remote
>condenser A/C system like the Pantera so we don¹t have to sweat getting
>out of a parking lot in the afternoon heat.
>
>Nuff said
>Larry Stock
>
>On 11/2/18, 2:38 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso"
><detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
>detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
>> All the answers will likely be estimates, opinions and
>>generalizations.
>> So here's my best guess: we know a stock rear-mount A/C setup works
>> around town and at road speeds up to maybe 90 mph. The airflow over,
>> under and around the Pantera creates a huge 'swirl' that plasters
>> itself against the rear bumper. The condenser fan sucks that slight
>> positive pressure inside, thru the condenser and exhausts the hot air
>> back against the tub, which directs the flow down toward the road so
>>it
>> doesn't form a loop that cycles back thru the condenser a second (or
>> more) time.
>> * Above some speed, the 'swirl' moves further and further back behind
>> the car, creating a slight vacuum and starving the rear mount
>>condenser
>> for cool air to exchange the A/C condenser's heat. Using wings, rear
>> deck spoilers or a so-called 'boxer slat' may modify the rear airflow
>>a
>> little but the 'swirl' will still back away from the car at some
>>point.
>> That's when we start blowing A/C hoses from overpressurization, since
>> DeTomasos do not have an overpressure switch. They NEED one!
>> * Leaving the tub out causes the hot exhausted air from the condenser
>>&
>> its fan to mix with the part of the main undercar airflow that goes up
>> and out above the decklid, or with the leading edge of the swirl,
>> reducing efficiency even at low speeds when the occupants are getting
>> some cooling.
>> Moving the condenser to the front cures all the above, at any speed
>> attainable. The stock fans must be switched to shrouded sucker fans,
>> and bigger is better. Stock A/C hoses will fit if re-routed but custom
>> hoses can shorten them a little, and the dryer can must be relocated
>> somewhere the sight gauge will be visible. A condenser core up front
>> will cause increased heat to enter the engine radiator so a bigger
>> engine rad is a good idea, and laying it down makes the condenser fit
>> easier. A thinner, more efficient A/C condenser will fit better, too.
>> The top air deflector plate must be modified. One engine radiator fan
>> should be rigged such that when the A/C compressor clutch engages, the
>> fan behind the front-mount condenser/engine rad comes on
>>automatically.
>> All this changes the weight-and-balance of the car (for the good,
>>IMHO)
>> to add a little more nose weight; the car may handle a bit different
>> initially. This may be one of those pro-shop-only mods for many, since
>> doing a half-a.. job in any of the above areas will result in what you
>> have now: an inconsistent A/C system.
>> J DeRyke
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott Mead Photography <scott at scottmeadphotography.com>
>> To: 'De Tomaso List' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 12:46
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] AC Condenser: Front Mount vs. Stock Rear Location
>> Hi Everyone,
>> Since we've been chatting about radiators this last week, I thought
>> I'd
>> toss out a different heat exchange question to the masses: What are
>> the
>> pros/cons of relocating the AC condenser to the front of the car,
>> which
>> placement is more efficient and is there a difference in longevity
>> comparing one placement to another?
>> Thanks all,
>> Scott
>> SMP-Slogo
>> PO Box 1190
>> Lake Arrowhead, CA 92352
>> T: 626-660-8075
>> E: [1]scott at scottmeadphotography.com
>> W: www.scottmeadphotography.com
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