[DeTomaso] AC Condenser: Front Mount vs. Stock Rear Location
jderyke at aol.com
jderyke at aol.com
Fri Nov 2 22:45:05 EDT 2018
As an addendum to my post for a front-mount condenser, at NAPA years ago I found a semi-truck A/C dryer-can that is a little fatter than stock but also 1" shorter, so fits in the left corner of the stock battery cutout up in the front trunk, without hitting the lid (I have a dropped battery). The sight glass is thus visible with the lid open, the assembly is attractive all aluminum construction and it was less than $20. I'll try to find the part number.
I agree- the stock condenser is bigger and fatter than we need. My current aluminum A/C condenser came from a Toyota mini-pickup, since the cabin space in a little 2 seat pickup is about the same as in a Pantera. It covers about half of my Fluidyne rad surface and when off, apparently does nothing to impede cooling air to the engine rad.
FWIW- J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: scott <scott at scottmeadphotography.com>; detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 14:38
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] AC Condenser: Front Mount vs. Stock Rear Location
All the answers will likely be estimates, opinions and generalizations.
So here's my best guess: we know a stock rear-mount A/C setup works
around town and at road speeds up to maybe 90 mph. The airflow over,
under and around the Pantera creates a huge 'swirl' that plasters
itself against the rear bumper. The condenser fan sucks that slight
positive pressure inside, thru the condenser and exhausts the hot air
back against the tub, which directs the flow down toward the road so it
doesn't form a loop that cycles back thru the condenser a second (or
more) time.
* Above some speed, the 'swirl' moves further and further back behind
the car, creating a slight vacuum and starving the rear mount condenser
for cool air to exchange the A/C condenser's heat. Using wings, rear
deck spoilers or a so-called 'boxer slat' may modify the rear airflow a
little but the 'swirl' will still back away from the car at some point.
That's when we start blowing A/C hoses from overpressurization, since
DeTomasos do not have an overpressure switch. They NEED one!
* Leaving the tub out causes the hot exhausted air from the condenser &
its fan to mix with the part of the main undercar airflow that goes up
and out above the decklid, or with the leading edge of the swirl,
reducing efficiency even at low speeds when the occupants are getting
some cooling.
Moving the condenser to the front cures all the above, at any speed
attainable. The stock fans must be switched to shrouded sucker fans,
and bigger is better. Stock A/C hoses will fit if re-routed but custom
hoses can shorten them a little, and the dryer can must be relocated
somewhere the sight gauge will be visible. A condenser core up front
will cause increased heat to enter the engine radiator so a bigger
engine rad is a good idea, and laying it down makes the condenser fit
easier. A thinner, more efficient A/C condenser will fit better, too.
The top air deflector plate must be modified. One engine radiator fan
should be rigged such that when the A/C compressor clutch engages, the
fan behind the front-mount condenser/engine rad comes on automatically.
All this changes the weight-and-balance of the car (for the good, IMHO)
to add a little more nose weight; the car may handle a bit different
initially. This may be one of those pro-shop-only mods for many, since
doing a half-a.. job in any of the above areas will result in what you
have now: an inconsistent A/C system.
J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Mead Photography <scott at scottmeadphotography.com>
To: 'De Tomaso List' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 12:46
Subject: [DeTomaso] AC Condenser: Front Mount vs. Stock Rear Location
Hi Everyone,
Since we've been chatting about radiators this last week, I thought
I'd
toss out a different heat exchange question to the masses: What are
the
pros/cons of relocating the AC condenser to the front of the car,
which
placement is more efficient and is there a difference in longevity
comparing one placement to another?
Thanks all,
Scott
SMP-Slogo
PO Box 1190
Lake Arrowhead, CA 92352
T: 626-660-8075
E: [1]scott at scottmeadphotography.com
W: www.scottmeadphotography.com
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-------------- next part --------------
As an addendum to my post for a front-mount condenser, at NAPA years
ago I found a semi-truck A/C dryer-can that is a little fatter than
stock but also 1" shorter, so fits in the left corner of the stock
battery cutout up in the front trunk, without hitting the lid (I have a
dropped battery). The sight glass is thus visible with the lid open,
the assembly is attractive all aluminum construction and it was less
than $20. I'll try to find the part number.
I agree- the stock condenser is bigger and fatter than we need. My
current aluminum A/C condenser came from a Toyota mini-pickup, since
the cabin space in a little 2 seat pickup is about the same as in a
Pantera. It covers about half of my Fluidyne rad surface and when off,
apparently does nothing to impede cooling air to the engine rad.
FWIW- J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: scott <scott at scottmeadphotography.com>; detomaso
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 14:38
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] AC Condenser: Front Mount vs. Stock Rear
Location
All the answers will likely be estimates, opinions and
generalizations.
So here's my best guess: we know a stock rear-mount A/C setup works
around town and at road speeds up to maybe 90 mph. The airflow over,
under and around the Pantera creates a huge 'swirl' that plasters
itself against the rear bumper. The condenser fan sucks that slight
positive pressure inside, thru the condenser and exhausts the hot air
back against the tub, which directs the flow down toward the road so
it
doesn't form a loop that cycles back thru the condenser a second (or
more) time.
* Above some speed, the 'swirl' moves further and further back behind
the car, creating a slight vacuum and starving the rear mount
condenser
for cool air to exchange the A/C condenser's heat. Using wings, rear
deck spoilers or a so-called 'boxer slat' may modify the rear airflow
a
little but the 'swirl' will still back away from the car at some
point.
That's when we start blowing A/C hoses from overpressurization, since
DeTomasos do not have an overpressure switch. They NEED one!
* Leaving the tub out causes the hot exhausted air from the condenser
&
its fan to mix with the part of the main undercar airflow that goes
up
and out above the decklid, or with the leading edge of the swirl,
reducing efficiency even at low speeds when the occupants are getting
some cooling.
Moving the condenser to the front cures all the above, at any speed
attainable. The stock fans must be switched to shrouded sucker fans,
and bigger is better. Stock A/C hoses will fit if re-routed but
custom
hoses can shorten them a little, and the dryer can must be relocated
somewhere the sight gauge will be visible. A condenser core up front
will cause increased heat to enter the engine radiator so a bigger
engine rad is a good idea, and laying it down makes the condenser fit
easier. A thinner, more efficient A/C condenser will fit better, too.
The top air deflector plate must be modified. One engine radiator fan
should be rigged such that when the A/C compressor clutch engages,
the
fan behind the front-mount condenser/engine rad comes on
automatically.
All this changes the weight-and-balance of the car (for the good,
IMHO)
to add a little more nose weight; the car may handle a bit different
initially. This may be one of those pro-shop-only mods for many,
since
doing a half-a.. job in any of the above areas will result in what
you
have now: an inconsistent A/C system.
J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Mead Photography <[1]scott at scottmeadphotography.com>
To: 'De Tomaso List' <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 12:46
Subject: [DeTomaso] AC Condenser: Front Mount vs. Stock Rear Location
Hi Everyone,
Since we've been chatting about radiators this last week, I thought
I'd
toss out a different heat exchange question to the masses: What are
the
pros/cons of relocating the AC condenser to the front of the car,
which
placement is more efficient and is there a difference in longevity
comparing one placement to another?
Thanks all,
Scott
SMP-Slogo
PO Box 1190
Lake Arrowhead, CA 92352
T: 626-660-8075
E: [1][3]scott at scottmeadphotography.com
W: www.scottmeadphotography.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:[6]scott at scottmeadphotography.com
2. mailto:[7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
3. [8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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