[DeTomaso] Vacuum source on IR manifolds

Ken Green kenn_green at yahoo.com
Sat May 26 12:11:59 EDT 2018


Ed,
    I'm confused, the photo looks like a Hilborn mechanical injection manifold?
Ken

      From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
 To: Robert Stroj <npdrs at maui.net> 
Cc: "DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
 Sent: Friday, May 25, 2018 10:59 PM
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Vacuum source on IR manifolds
   
  Here is a picture of mine. I have a line going to each runner then all
  to one small common block for brakes and MAP. I am running indexed
  speed density mode on my FAST XFI 2.0, I have have two MAP sensors one
  for manifold absolute pressure and one for barometric pressure, it
  takes a reading form both and adjusts for elevation. I am not running
  an IAC because as the article states below you would have to have two
  lines plumbed to each port.
  Here is a section from a forum when I was doing research.
  ======
  Perhaps add a vacuum reservoir to act as a "shock absorber" and give a
  more even MAP reading, go speed density for the tune. For the map
  signal, you need a vacuum feed from each port, tied into a common
  "metering block" and then to the map sensor. You cannot take a vacuum
  signal from a single port, needs to be from all of them. You also don't
  want to share that vacuum source with the iac or anything else. They
  make nice remote mount iac's, but again they need their own separate
  lines to each port. Think of something like a port-injected nitrous
  system with the stainless hard lines going to each port in the intake
  and tieing together in a billet aluminum block. On mine, there were two
  lines to each port hidden underneath the manifold just like a hidden
  nitrous kit. Then after the block where they came together we put two
  bulkhead fittings in the rear of the intake (one for iac and one for
  map) so there was a connection from the top of the intake. Totally
  hidden, very clean looking and works perfect.
  Using a SMALL plenum for the vacuum is a requirement - not an option -
  otherwise you have nowhere to take the MAP reading. There is very very
  little vacuum signal from these types of intakes. I would advise you to
  use the plenum for ONLY the MAP signal. I was trying to remember - but
  think I could only get 4 or 5 inches of vacuum reading at my plenum.
  The pulse signal is soooooo weak without having a large common plenum
  of the dual plane / single plane intake....
  To help tune the idle circuit -- in the efi maps -- you make smaller
  incremental
  grids in the idle vacuum and rpm map.... then you can tune out the
  lumps easier with finer control... and also using the idle spark add or
  subtract.
  IMHO, a guy that's GOOD with these ECU EFI systems can make
  anything/combo run like a swiss watch.
  I just finished helping a buddy with his 8 stack (Imagine Injection)
  install - using Fast XFI on his 454 big block. It started the FIRST
  TIME - in about 3 rev's - once I tweaked the distributor timing to
  actually match the ECU - it purred... and there's nothing like the
  sound of air being gulped one cylinder at a time.
  ======
  In reading this however, I have the single lines to each port "the
  black lines in the picture" I have them going to a tiny plenum and have
  my brakes and MAP going to it and have no issues at all.
  I suppose this depends oil if you have a huge cam or not, in that case
  Don Byars makes this bitchin vacuum pump setup the for brakes that fits
  underneath and in front of the radiator.
  Ed [cid:BB9234B6-5F88-4571-A521-3C6B9693C26D]

  On May 25, 2018, at 22:28, Robert Stroj <[1]npdrs at maui.net> wrote:

  Hi, I am in process of installing IR fuel injection, using Fast Xfi
  2.0.
  Would like to hear from someone running similar setup how did you plumb
  vacuum source manifold.
  Was planning to use just one common manifold (connected to all 8
  runners) and then connect servo brake tube, MAP sensor and vacuum
  regulated fuel pressure regulator all to that manifold.
  Would that work fine or will signal from MAP get wrong readings when
  breaking (booster maybe reducing vacuum)?
  If this is fine, is there some rule on how to size this manifold?
  Thanks, Robert
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References

  1. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
  2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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-------------- next part --------------
   Ed,
       I'm confused, the photo looks like a Hilborn mechanical injection
   manifold?
   Ken
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
   To: Robert Stroj <npdrs at maui.net>
   Cc: "DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
   <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Friday, May 25, 2018 10:59 PM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Vacuum source on IR manifolds
     Here is a picture of mine. I have a line going to each runner then
   all
     to one small common block for brakes and MAP. I am running indexed
     speed density mode on my FAST XFI 2.0, I have have two MAP sensors
   one
     for manifold absolute pressure and one for barometric pressure, it
     takes a reading form both and adjusts for elevation. I am not running
     an IAC because as the article states below you would have to have two
     lines plumbed to each port.
     Here is a section from a forum when I was doing research.
     ======
     Perhaps add a vacuum reservoir to act as a "shock absorber" and give
   a
     more even MAP reading, go speed density for the tune. For the map
     signal, you need a vacuum feed from each port, tied into a common
     "metering block" and then to the map sensor. You cannot take a vacuum
     signal from a single port, needs to be from all of them. You also
   don't
     want to share that vacuum source with the iac or anything else. They
     make nice remote mount iac's, but again they need their own separate
     lines to each port. Think of something like a port-injected nitrous
     system with the stainless hard lines going to each port in the intake
     and tieing together in a billet aluminum block. On mine, there were
   two
     lines to each port hidden underneath the manifold just like a hidden
     nitrous kit. Then after the block where they came together we put two
     bulkhead fittings in the rear of the intake (one for iac and one for
     map) so there was a connection from the top of the intake. Totally
     hidden, very clean looking and works perfect.
     Using a SMALL plenum for the vacuum is a requirement - not an option
   -
     otherwise you have nowhere to take the MAP reading. There is very
   very
     little vacuum signal from these types of intakes. I would advise you
   to
     use the plenum for ONLY the MAP signal. I was trying to remember -
   but
     think I could only get 4 or 5 inches of vacuum reading at my plenum.
     The pulse signal is soooooo weak without having a large common plenum
     of the dual plane / single plane intake....
     To help tune the idle circuit -- in the efi maps -- you make smaller
     incremental
     grids in the idle vacuum and rpm map.... then you can tune out the
     lumps easier with finer control... and also using the idle spark add
   or
     subtract.
     IMHO, a guy that's GOOD with these ECU EFI systems can make
     anything/combo run like a swiss watch.
     I just finished helping a buddy with his 8 stack (Imagine Injection)
     install - using Fast XFI on his 454 big block. It started the FIRST
     TIME - in about 3 rev's - once I tweaked the distributor timing to
     actually match the ECU - it purred... and there's nothing like the
     sound of air being gulped one cylinder at a time.
     ======
     In reading this however, I have the single lines to each port "the
     black lines in the picture" I have them going to a tiny plenum and
   have
     my brakes and MAP going to it and have no issues at all.
     I suppose this depends oil if you have a huge cam or not, in that
   case
     Don Byars makes this bitchin vacuum pump setup the for brakes that
   fits
     underneath and in front of the radiator.
     Ed [cid:BB9234B6-5F88-4571-A521-3C6B9693C26D]
     On May 25, 2018, at 22:28, Robert Stroj <[1][1]npdrs at maui.net> wrote:
     Hi, I am in process of installing IR fuel injection, using Fast Xfi
     2.0.
     Would like to hear from someone running similar setup how did you
   plumb
     vacuum source manifold.
     Was planning to use just one common manifold (connected to all 8
     runners) and then connect servo brake tube, MAP sensor and vacuum
     regulated fuel pressure regulator all to that manifold.
     Would that work fine or will signal from MAP get wrong readings when
     breaking (booster maybe reducing vacuum)?
     If this is fine, is there some rule on how to size this manifold?
     Thanks, Robert
     _______________________________________________
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     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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     use the links above.
     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   any
     message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
   References
     1. mailto:[4]npdrs at maui.net
     2. mailto:[5]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     3. [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   _______________________________________________
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   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.

References

   1. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
   2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   4. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
   5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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