[DeTomaso] Shift Happens - Broken Motor Mount Bolt
Larry Weston
lplugw at hotmail.com
Tue May 15 06:50:52 EDT 2018
I don't know it has been mentioned, but a left handed drill bit will often bite in and spin broken hardware right out. You have to drill a hole for the EZ-out anyway...
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 10:37 PM
To: Larry Stock
Cc: De Tomaso List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Shift Happens - Broken Motor Mount Bolt
Larry,
Grade 8 bolts are stronger in tension and weaker in shear. They are more brittle, and they break when Grade 5 bolts bend.
The fix is to use Grade 5 bolts—as originally installed (for a reason). The engine subjects the bolts to shear loading and Grade 8 bolts will snap when Grade 5 bolts distort. A distorted bolt is still doing its job after a broken bolt isn’t! (Thats also why A-arm bolts are Grade 5 instead of Grade 8).
There are lots of other applications where Grade 8 bolts are appropriate. It depends on the nature of the job they are being asked to do. But neither Grade 5 or 8 bolts are ‘better’. They are instead ‘different’.
The Ford engineer guys are no dummies.
Scott—you should be able to support the engine from below (or suspend it from above), then unbolt the bottom half of the engine mount, remove the through bolt, and withdraw it. Then you can remove the other upper mount bolt (hope it isn’t broken too) then remove the upper mount. Then you can determine if you can extract the broken bolt with an EZ-out. Frame rails might make access difficult, so you may have to unbolt the other side mount and raise it up with a hoist to get better access.
If the bolt is broken off inside the block and the EZ-out doesn’t work, you may need to take the block to a shop that can do EDM, Electro Discharge Machining, and have it zapped out. Or perhaps a machinist can extract it for you. Dismantling the engine might be part of either of those operations however....
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On May 14, 2018, at 11:04, Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
>
> There should be 2 bolts Scott, so I assume you sheared the other one also.
> Since you so good with that camera, shoot me a photo of the other side as
> well, I¹d like to see what the bolt heads indicate what grade of bolts you
> had in there. Factory came with grade 5, and after Radial tires were
> invented and installed the true nature of the difference of a monocoque vs
> Unibody became evident with the shearing of the grade 5 bolts with the
> engine being engineered as stressed member of the chassis. The fix has
> been to use grade 8 or higher to keep that engine as a stressed member
> brace of the chassis design. More Grip, more stress.
>
> Larry
>
> On 5/14/18, 10:47 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Scott Mead Photography"
> <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> scott at scottmeadphotography.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone -
>>
>>
>> I was under the car this weekend, diagnosing my paperweight of an A/C
>> system, when I noticed something a little unnerving: The right-front
>> motor mount bolt had sheared off in the block, and the motor had
>> shifted. With the hole in the motor mount no longer lining up with bolt
>> remnants, there's no way I can "easy out" the bolt. Aside from pulling
>> the engine/ZF, can I take out the other bolt, loosen the bolts on the
>> other side and (using a block of wood under the oil pan), jack the
>> engine up a bit to re-align or remove the motor mount to extract the
>> bolt? Are there any other options I haven't thought of?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Scott (caretaker of 5638)
>>
>>
>>
>> SMP-Slogo
>>
>> PO Box 1190
>>
>> Lake Arrowhead, CA 92352
>>
>> T: 626-660-8075
>>
>> E: scott at scottmeadphotography.com
>>
>> W: www.scottmeadphotography.com<http://www.scottmeadphotography.com>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
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>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
I don't know it has been mentioned, but a left handed drill bit will
often bite in and spin broken hardware right out. You have to drill a
hole for the EZ-out anyway...
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 10:37 PM
To: Larry Stock
Cc: De Tomaso List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Shift Happens - Broken Motor Mount Bolt
Larry,
Grade 8 bolts are stronger in tension and weaker in shear. They are
more brittle, and they break when Grade 5 bolts bend.
The fix is to use Grade 5 bolts--as originally installed (for a
reason). The engine subjects the bolts to shear loading and Grade 8
bolts will snap when Grade 5 bolts distort. A distorted bolt is still
doing its job after a broken bolt isn't! (Thats also why A-arm bolts
are Grade 5 instead of Grade 8).
There are lots of other applications where Grade 8 bolts are
appropriate. It depends on the nature of the job they are being asked
to do. But neither Grade 5 or 8 bolts are `better'. They are instead
`different'.
The Ford engineer guys are no dummies.
Scott--you should be able to support the engine from below (or suspend
it from above), then unbolt the bottom half of the engine mount, remove
the through bolt, and withdraw it. Then you can remove the other upper
mount bolt (hope it isn't broken too) then remove the upper mount. Then
you can determine if you can extract the broken bolt with an EZ-out.
Frame rails might make access difficult, so you may have to unbolt the
other side mount and raise it up with a hoist to get better access.
If the bolt is broken off inside the block and the EZ-out doesn't work,
you may need to take the block to a shop that can do EDM, Electro
Discharge Machining, and have it zapped out. Or perhaps a machinist can
extract it for you. Dismantling the engine might be part of either of
those operations however....
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On May 14, 2018, at 11:04, Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com>
wrote:
>
> There should be 2 bolts Scott, so I assume you sheared the other one
also.
> Since you so good with that camera, shoot me a photo of the other
side as
> well, I^1d like to see what the bolt heads indicate what grade of
bolts you
> had in there. Factory came with grade 5, and after Radial tires were
> invented and installed the true nature of the difference of a
monocoque vs
> Unibody became evident with the shearing of the grade 5 bolts with
the
> engine being engineered as stressed member of the chassis. The fix
has
> been to use grade 8 or higher to keep that engine as a stressed
member
> brace of the chassis design. More Grip, more stress.
>
> Larry
>
> On 5/14/18, 10:47 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Scott Mead Photography"
> <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> scott at scottmeadphotography.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone -
>>
>>
>> I was under the car this weekend, diagnosing my paperweight of an
A/C
>> system, when I noticed something a little unnerving: The right-front
>> motor mount bolt had sheared off in the block, and the motor had
>> shifted. With the hole in the motor mount no longer lining up with
bolt
>> remnants, there's no way I can "easy out" the bolt. Aside from
pulling
>> the engine/ZF, can I take out the other bolt, loosen the bolts on
the
>> other side and (using a block of wood under the oil pan), jack the
>> engine up a bit to re-align or remove the motor mount to extract the
>> bolt? Are there any other options I haven't thought of?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Scott (caretaker of 5638)
>>
>>
>>
>> SMP-Slogo
>>
>> PO Box 1190
>>
>> Lake Arrowhead, CA 92352
>>
>> T: 626-660-8075
>>
>> E: scott at scottmeadphotography.com
>>
>> W: [1]www.scottmeadphotography.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use
>> the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>> approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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use the links above.
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list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
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