[DeTomaso] Pantera for sale in my backyard!

[Mike Drew]

All,

I was shocked to learn that there was a Pantera for sale on Ebay located just a few miles from my house in Vacaville, CA.  I was even more surprised to discover that the seller had TWO Panteras in his garage!  I drove over there yesterday afternoon for a brief look.

Randy Brinsky buys and sells cars for a hobby, and has a large workshop on his property, with a variety of Mustangs, Porsche 911s, and Jaguar E-types.  He bought these two Panteras as part of a lot of seven cars.  One of them is a running, driving car and the other was dismantled and painted 20 years ago, and never assembled again, so it will be a springtime project for him.

Here is the link  for the car for sale:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-De-Tomaso-Other-Pantera/263630828141

It is a late Pre-L Pantera #4123, that the previous owner grafted an L-model front bumper onto, grafting the turn signals to the underside of the bumper somehow.  The original Pre-L rear bumperettes are still installed.

As the car is at the end of a dirt road and is in spotless condition, I wasn't able to take it for a drive, and my inspection was relatively quick.  Still, I was able to get some good impressions of it.

The car has been repainted, in a rather more attractive shade of Ferrari/resale red.  Apparently no Marti report can be had for it, because they have no records of the car, which would suggest that perhaps it was a Euro import (and perhaps that is why/how the bumper got added, when it was gray-market imported).  However, there are no immediately overt signs of Euro-ness such as a European importer plaque in the front trunk, or in the passenger doorjamb.  I am somewhat inclined to believe that there was a misunderstanding by the Marti people during the attempt to secure the Marti report.  However, there are a couple of details that could support the argument that it was originally a European car.  It has Euro taillights (which is common here), but oddly, it has a Longchamp steering wheel!  Those don't exactly grow on trees over here--in fact I've never seen one in a Pantera before. 

Be that as it may, the car is the important thing.

The paint job looks nice from a distance, but does have a bit of orangepeel in places (I noticed it particularly on the rear panel).  I don't claim to be a paint expert, so it's possible it would respond favorably to a cut and buff, but as it is, it falls squarely into the 'very nice driver' category, which is no bad thing.  The trim has been blacked out as well.

Oddly the chrome trim is missing from the windshield.  The stock gasket is present but the trim has gone missing, an expensive thing to rectify.  (It's also missing the fiberglass trunk, spare and tool kit, all of which are pretty spendy items, either to purchase, or to ship).

When I arrived to inspect the car, it was up on a lift, making the inspection very easy.  The chassis seems absolutely rock-solid, although the needed drain holes are missing from the lower wheelhouses.  It doesn't seem to have suffered any owner abuse either.  I did spot a bit of bubbling at the bottom of the B-pillars, which is one of the first places rust starts to appear, but the traditional spots such as the forward bottom corner of the LH quarter panel, the rockers, or the rear bottom corner of both front fenders, seem absent of any corrosion, a thoroughly good thing.

The suspension has been upgraded slightly, with poly A-arm bushings and QA1 shocks and springs.  Both rear axles/bearings were very nice and tight, and the steering rack appears to have been rebuilt as well, as it was devoid of any unwanted (and typically seen) play.

It has stock front and rear swaybars; in the rear they have been fitted with aluminum brackets, but oddly the forwardmost bolts were missing on the A-arm brackets (likely rectified by now).  The De Tomaso logos are missing from the center of the inboard brackets.

Driveshafts are stock as well, and appear to be in good nick.

It has stock brakes with unknown pads; the only modification seems to be a Wilwood master cylinder.  The rear A-arms and rear swaybar have been painted a silver-gray color.

I did notice something odd about the shocks.  The front spring rate is considerably higher than the rear spring rate, but the springs themselves are shorter (10 inches vs. 12 at the rear).  So, is a 400 lb 10-inch spring stiffer than a 300 lb 12-inch spring?  Yes, I believe it is, so it's possible that the previous owner accidently fitted the front shocks to the rear and vice-versa, which is easily rectified.

It has four matching stock wheels and BFG tires (I forgot to check the sizes, but they appeared to be reasonable).

We then lowered the car and I got to peer in the engine bay.

The engine is the original number-matching block, but sounds rather healthy.  It's far from radical, but the exhaust note suggests that it is in good health, perhaps with a slightly better camshaft.  There are no details about what is inside, but the Edelbrock Performer 4V intake and economy Holley carb suggest a comparatively mild state of tune (don't be expecting a 600 horsepower stroker in here).  It has a chrome stock-style oil pan, and Hall Pantera exhaust system (ill-fitting at the rear, with the right side drooping as often is the case).  

The cooling system has seen some attention.  It has a Fluidyne radiator tilted forward, with sucker fans.  I didn't look closely at the water pipes but I suspect they are original.  The stock pressure tank has been fitted with a pressure gauge where the stock temp sender normally goes, which suggests that the sender has (properly) been relocated to the front of the engine.  (There is also an additional mechanical water temp gauge grafted to the underside of the roof, visible in the rear view mirror).  The stock overflow tank has been replaced with a strange and ugly plastic bottle.

The interior is largely stock, apart from a thicker aftermarket shift gate, and a Longchamp steering wheel.  Oddly, it is equipped with 1971 seats with the vertical ribbing, meaning that it will offer greater headroom at the expense of comfort, perhaps a good thing for a taller driver.

There are terrible gauges or holes hacked in the dash; the window switches are new, and a non-standard cover fills the hole where the radio might have been at one time.  There are large rectangular speaker grilles on the doorpanels.  

There is a dash mat covering the dash; this normally hides sins on a later plastic one-pod dash, but the two-pod dashes like this one are normally in pretty good shape.  I forgot to peek underneath it but I would anticipate that it would have the later TSB modifications which were incorporated into the later cars, consisting of a narrow metal strip between the two defroster vents to keep the material from lifting away from the dash.

That's about all I can tell you, because I was unable to drive the car, and the seller had to dash off to pick up yet another car in Sacramento.  We didn't run the car long enough for me to learn if it suffered from overheating; given the quality radiator and fans, if it did overheat it would probably be caused by the fitment of a Windsor thermostat instead of the proper Cleveland unit.  However the seller indicated that the car was entirely well-behaved and I have no reason to doubt it.  He also said that 'everything works' but I was unable to test function of windows, headlights, turn signals, brake lights etc.  All of that is minor stuff.

So, what's it worth?  Well, the fact that it's a very solid California car automatically imparts increased value over a car from some other part of the country, and it appears to need little in the way of rust repair.  The bubbling B-pillars could probably safely be ignored for quite some time, but if the car was ever stripped for paint, of course one would want to give them some attention.

The kluged-in front bumper arrangement is a bit disappointing; there would need to be some money spent to return the car to its proper Pre-L configuration, both for the purchase of the bumperettes (the existing turn signals have scruffy chrome but would probably look fine painted black and installed in blacked-out bumperettes) and the filling of the big holes in the front of the body necessary for attaching the L-model bumper.  (I confess I forgot to check to see if those body mounts were installed; it's quite possible that the bumper is just secured with nuts on the small-diameter studs which would make the repair much easier).  

The engine sounds healthy enough, but is otherwise unremarkable.  It has stock valve covers painted black and fitted with De Tomaso plaques; the stock air cleaner has been replaced by a standard Mustang/Mercury/Whatever unit, but it does the job.

The exhaust system is vile, but that's a personal bias of mine. :>)

The interior is in good shape overall, with a nick on one of the armrests, and missing plugs for the armrests.  The '71 seats are a feature for some people, but are clearly 'wrong' on a late '72 Pre-L if one is a purist.

The missing trunk is a big, and likely expensive bummer.  There was no engine screen present and I suspect that is missing as well, but at least the two side pieces are there.  This car would have come with a late Pre-L engine cover, with a raised solid center section, and those are quite hard to find.

So, assuming that the car runs and drives as good as it looks, and that everything does in fact work, it represents a solid investment as a driver, one that would benefit from just a little bit of work to be fully enjoyable.  I normally have a pretty fine window of my perceived financial value, but in this case it's pretty broad, somewhere between $70-85k, with that wide spread down to whether or not a potential buyer cares about the things that are missing or 'wrong' on the car, such as the trunk, engine screen, windshield trim, and front bumper arrangement.  Some buyers might overlook those obvious flaws and be willing to pay top dollar because the car is so structurally solid, while others may insist on a COMPLETE Pantera, and factor in the cost of procuring and installing all those missing parts when making their offer.

Personally, I'm just excited to have a Pantera playmate virtually in my back yard, and I look forward to helping him get his other car #4800 back on the road.  He's already bought a huge pile of parts for it, and the engine has been rebuilt locally, so it's going to be a case of 'some assembly required'.  Hopefully he will be able to sell #4123 to help fund the completion of that project. :>)

For more information, you can contact Randy at mustangs at mustangs4.com or (916) 996-9008.

Happy bidding!

Mike






-------------- next part --------------
   All,
   I was shocked to learn that there was a Pantera for sale on Ebay
   located just a few miles from my house in Vacaville, CA.  I was even
   more surprised to discover that the seller had TWO Panteras in his
   garage!  I drove over there yesterday afternoon for a brief look.
   Randy Brinsky buys and sells cars for a hobby, and has a large workshop
   on his property, with a variety of Mustangs, Porsche 911s, and Jaguar
   E-types.  He bought these two Panteras as part of a lot of seven cars.
   One of them is a running, driving car and the other was dismantled and
   painted 20 years ago, and never assembled again, so it will be a
   springtime project for him.
   Here is the link  for the car for sale:
   https://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-De-Tomaso-Other-Pantera/263630828141
   It is a late Pre-L Pantera #4123, that the previous owner grafted an
   L-model front bumper onto, grafting the turn signals to the underside
   of the bumper somehow.  The original Pre-L rear bumperettes are still
   installed.
   As the car is at the end of a dirt road and is in spotless condition, I
   wasn't able to take it for a drive, and my inspection was relatively
   quick.  Still, I was able to get some good impressions of it.
   The car has been repainted, in a rather more attractive shade of
   Ferrari/resale red.  Apparently no Marti report can be had for it,
   because they have no records of the car, which would suggest that
   perhaps it was a Euro import (and perhaps that is why/how the bumper
   got added, when it was gray-market imported).  However, there are no
   immediately overt signs of Euro-ness such as a European importer plaque
   in the front trunk, or in the passenger doorjamb.  I am somewhat
   inclined to believe that there was a misunderstanding by the Marti
   people during the attempt to secure the Marti report.  However, there
   are a couple of details that could support the argument that it was
   originally a European car.  It has Euro taillights (which is common
   here), but oddly, it has a Longchamp steering wheel!  Those don't
   exactly grow on trees over here--in fact I've never seen one in a
   Pantera before.
   Be that as it may, the car is the important thing.
   The paint job looks nice from a distance, but does have a bit of
   orangepeel in places (I noticed it particularly on the rear panel).  I
   don't claim to be a paint expert, so it's possible it would respond
   favorably to a cut and buff, but as it is, it falls squarely into the
   'very nice driver' category, which is no bad thing.  The trim has been
   blacked out as well.
   Oddly the chrome trim is missing from the windshield.  The stock gasket
   is present but the trim has gone missing, an expensive thing to
   rectify.  (It's also missing the fiberglass trunk, spare and tool kit,
   all of which are pretty spendy items, either to purchase, or to ship).
   When I arrived to inspect the car, it was up on a lift, making the
   inspection very easy.  The chassis seems absolutely rock-solid,
   although the needed drain holes are missing from the lower
   wheelhouses.  It doesn't seem to have suffered any owner abuse either.
   I did spot a bit of bubbling at the bottom of the B-pillars, which is
   one of the first places rust starts to appear, but the traditional
   spots such as the forward bottom corner of the LH quarter panel, the
   rockers, or the rear bottom corner of both front fenders, seem absent
   of any corrosion, a thoroughly good thing.
   The suspension has been upgraded slightly, with poly A-arm bushings and
   QA1 shocks and springs.  Both rear axles/bearings were very nice and
   tight, and the steering rack appears to have been rebuilt as well, as
   it was devoid of any unwanted (and typically seen) play.
   It has stock front and rear swaybars; in the rear they have been fitted
   with aluminum brackets, but oddly the forwardmost bolts were missing on
   the A-arm brackets (likely rectified by now).  The De Tomaso logos are
   missing from the center of the inboard brackets.
   Driveshafts are stock as well, and appear to be in good nick.
   It has stock brakes with unknown pads; the only modification seems to
   be a Wilwood master cylinder.  The rear A-arms and rear swaybar have
   been painted a silver-gray color.
   I did notice something odd about the shocks.  The front spring rate is
   considerably higher than the rear spring rate, but the springs
   themselves are shorter (10 inches vs. 12 at the rear).  So, is a 400 lb
   10-inch spring stiffer than a 300 lb 12-inch spring?  Yes, I believe it
   is, so it's possible that the previous owner accidently fitted the
   front shocks to the rear and vice-versa, which is easily rectified.
   It has four matching stock wheels and BFG tires (I forgot to check the
   sizes, but they appeared to be reasonable).
   We then lowered the car and I got to peer in the engine bay.
   The engine is the original number-matching block, but sounds rather
   healthy.  It's far from radical, but the exhaust note suggests that it
   is in good health, perhaps with a slightly better camshaft.  There are
   no details about what is inside, but the Edelbrock Performer 4V intake
   and economy Holley carb suggest a comparatively mild state of tune
   (don't be expecting a 600 horsepower stroker in here).  It has a chrome
   stock-style oil pan, and Hall Pantera exhaust system (ill-fitting at
   the rear, with the right side drooping as often is the case).
   The cooling system has seen some attention.  It has a Fluidyne radiator
   tilted forward, with sucker fans.  I didn't look closely at the water
   pipes but I suspect they are original.  The stock pressure tank has
   been fitted with a pressure gauge where the stock temp sender normally
   goes, which suggests that the sender has (properly) been relocated to
   the front of the engine.  (There is also an additional mechanical water
   temp gauge grafted to the underside of the roof, visible in the rear
   view mirror).  The stock overflow tank has been replaced with a strange
   and ugly plastic bottle.
   The interior is largely stock, apart from a thicker aftermarket shift
   gate, and a Longchamp steering wheel.  Oddly, it is equipped with 1971
   seats with the vertical ribbing, meaning that it will offer greater
   headroom at the expense of comfort, perhaps a good thing for a taller
   driver.
   There are terrible gauges or holes hacked in the dash; the window
   switches are new, and a non-standard cover fills the hole where the
   radio might have been at one time.  There are large rectangular speaker
   grilles on the doorpanels.
   There is a dash mat covering the dash; this normally hides sins on a
   later plastic one-pod dash, but the two-pod dashes like this one are
   normally in pretty good shape.  I forgot to peek underneath it but I
   would anticipate that it would have the later TSB modifications which
   were incorporated into the later cars, consisting of a narrow metal
   strip between the two defroster vents to keep the material from lifting
   away from the dash.
   That's about all I can tell you, because I was unable to drive the car,
   and the seller had to dash off to pick up yet another car in
   Sacramento.  We didn't run the car long enough for me to learn if it
   suffered from overheating; given the quality radiator and fans, if it
   did overheat it would probably be caused by the fitment of a Windsor
   thermostat instead of the proper Cleveland unit.  However the seller
   indicated that the car was entirely well-behaved and I have no reason
   to doubt it.  He also said that 'everything works' but I was unable to
   test function of windows, headlights, turn signals, brake lights etc.
   All of that is minor stuff.
   So, what's it worth?  Well, the fact that it's a very solid California
   car automatically imparts increased value over a car from some other
   part of the country, and it appears to need little in the way of rust
   repair.  The bubbling B-pillars could probably safely be ignored for
   quite some time, but if the car was ever stripped for paint, of course
   one would want to give them some attention.
   The kluged-in front bumper arrangement is a bit disappointing; there
   would need to be some money spent to return the car to its proper Pre-L
   configuration, both for the purchase of the bumperettes (the existing
   turn signals have scruffy chrome but would probably look fine painted
   black and installed in blacked-out bumperettes) and the filling of the
   big holes in the front of the body necessary for attaching the L-model
   bumper.  (I confess I forgot to check to see if those body mounts were
   installed; it's quite possible that the bumper is just secured with
   nuts on the small-diameter studs which would make the repair much
   easier).
   The engine sounds healthy enough, but is otherwise unremarkable.  It
   has stock valve covers painted black and fitted with De Tomaso plaques;
   the stock air cleaner has been replaced by a standard
   Mustang/Mercury/Whatever unit, but it does the job.
   The exhaust system is vile, but that's a personal bias of mine. :>)
   The interior is in good shape overall, with a nick on one of the
   armrests, and missing plugs for the armrests.  The '71 seats are a
   feature for some people, but are clearly 'wrong' on a late '72 Pre-L if
   one is a purist.
   The missing trunk is a big, and likely expensive bummer.  There was no
   engine screen present and I suspect that is missing as well, but at
   least the two side pieces are there.  This car would have come with a
   late Pre-L engine cover, with a raised solid center section, and those
   are quite hard to find.
   So, assuming that the car runs and drives as good as it looks, and that
   everything does in fact work, it represents a solid investment as a
   driver, one that would benefit from just a little bit of work to be
   fully enjoyable.  I normally have a pretty fine window of my perceived
   financial value, but in this case it's pretty broad, somewhere between
   $70-85k, with that wide spread down to whether or not a potential buyer
   cares about the things that are missing or 'wrong' on the car, such as
   the trunk, engine screen, windshield trim, and front bumper
   arrangement.  Some buyers might overlook those obvious flaws and be
   willing to pay top dollar because the car is so structurally solid,
   while others may insist on a COMPLETE Pantera, and factor in the cost
   of procuring and installing all those missing parts when making their
   offer.
   Personally, I'm just excited to have a Pantera playmate virtually in my
   back yard, and I look forward to helping him get his other car #4800
   back on the road.  He's already bought a huge pile of parts for it, and
   the engine has been rebuilt locally, so it's going to be a case of
   'some assembly required'.  Hopefully he will be able to sell #4123 to
   help fund the completion of that project. :>)
   For more information, you can contact Randy at mustangs at mustangs4.com
   or (916) 996-9008.
   Happy bidding!
   Mike