[DeTomaso] Values of cars

Ken Green kenn_green at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 9 11:40:07 EST 2018


I'm not sure all inspectors are equally qualified to inspect a Pantera, and I don't think most inspectors help buyers to get an idea of what they may want to upgrade.  It seems like many if not most Pantera owners end up making changes they didn't originally plan (is that a sickness?).  I suppose the buyer could get a shop involved before the purchase.
Ken



      From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
 To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Detomaso Email List <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
 Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 7:20 AM
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
   
  What you describe sounds exactly like a PPI (Pre-Purchase Inspection)
  or condition appraisal, from there it is purely a case of what a
  prospective owner is willing to pay and the seller willing to let it go
  for.

  Julian
    __________________________________________________________________

  From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
  Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
  Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:41 PM
  To: Mike Drew
  Cc: Detomaso Email List
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars

  Thinking out of the box ...
  I bought a Pantera in 75 and sold it a couple years later, and avoided
  Panteras for years because of rust.  Now I accept dealing with rust is
  just an added cost when buying a Pantera.  I cringe when I see a car
  described as a rust free barn find in a warehouse in Florida next to
  the ocean.  Maybe it's possible for a car to sit in salt air for 30
  years and not rust, but I suspect more often, the paint is holding the
  body together.  There is another myth about "California cars"  where a
  lot of Panteras lived next to the beach.
  I agree that score based on the car's originality does not make sense
  for most Panteras.  However, a qualified appraiser should be able to
  give an opinion on potential rust issues.  The quality of the paint is
  even easier, and the cost of repainting.  The suitability of the wheels
  for modern tires is simple.  The ZF is a big issue as is the engine.
  Recommended upgrades and cost estimates would also be useful.
  Maybe a questionnaire completed by a potential buyer describing what
  they want and what they like.  Then a given car can be appraised to
  determine if the purchase makes sense.  I suspect many buyers would
  decide to spend more up front when the recognize the cost of making a
  Pantera into their dream car.
  I just threw this together as a example.  I'm sure others can come up
  with more appropriate categories.  My point is that there should be
  some objective way to put a price on a given car, and maybe even factor
  in the subjective goals of a buyer.
  Ken

      From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
    To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
  Cc: Detomaso Email List <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
    Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:57 AM
    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars

    Ken,
    To put it mildly, you're dreaming!
    You are comparing apples to oranges. Corvette restorers RESTORE
    Corvettes. Pantera shops call what they do `restoration' but I can
    think of fewer than a handful of Panteras that have ever been
  PROPERLY
    restored in the traditional sense. Pantera shops instead choose to
    modify cars and call it restoration, which is totally ridiculous.
    I'm not saying it's a bad thing to modify a Pantera, but it's
  laughable
    to then claim that you have restored it.
    I visited Jim Demick in New Mexico yesterday. In his den (on the
  second
    floor of the beautiful home he built himself with his own two hands)
  is
    a fully restored, perfectly detailed 1971 Pantera engine, with every
    original detail--every tag, stamp, hose, wire etc being completely
    original, and restored to Pebble Beach standards. It would be nice if
    there was that level of respect for at least some of our cars, but
    unlike the Corvette gang, few seem to have it.
    To be fair, we had just been ripping around at 130 mph in his 1971
    Pantera that has a 600 hp 408 stroker. And undoubtedly that is way
  more
    fun than creeping around slowly in a bone stock Pantera with one eye
  on
    the water temp gauge all the time.
    We then went for a drive in his bone stock, 100% numbers matching
    concours `65 Corvette coupe.  We drove slowly on side roads to avoid
    the freeway. That was a lot of fun too, in a different way.
    Apples and oranges....
    image1.jpeg
    image2.jpeg
    Mike
    Sent from my iPad
    On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:55, Ken Green <[1]kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
    Has anyone proposed establishing a rating system for Panteras, and
  have
    a certification process for appraisers?  I was watching the crazy
  high
    prices of Corvettes at one of the auctions.  It seems like the Vette
    folks have a very organized rating system, and once a car has been
    rated, a buyer knows what they are getting.  I don't expect to see
    typical Panteras selling for $300K, but when the owner spends $100K +
    on a high quality restoration, it seems like they never recover the
    investment.  That also hurts the shops because people are less will
  to
    spend $s on their cars when it doesn't increase the value very much.
    If the vendors and POCA got together and created something, I think
  it
    would have a big benefit.
    Ken
      __________________________________________________________________
    From: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
    To: "[3]gt40 at sbcglobal.net" <[4]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>; Mike Drew
    <[5]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
    Cc: Ken Green <[6]kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Detomaso Email List
    <[7]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
    Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 8:12 PM
    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
    You can narrow down results with a check box on the left side
    for 'completed items' or 'sold items', the former will include sold
    listings and what non-sold cars were bid to, the distinction is
    those sold have the price in bold green. The caveat with eBay is that
    there are no penalties for winning and not following through with the
    purchase, so you'll often see the same car sold a number of times
    at different prices as yahoo's bid on anything for the shear fun of
  it.
    Julian
      __________________________________________________________________
    From: DeTomaso <[8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
  behalf
    of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
    Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 6:48 PM
    To: [10]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
    Cc: Ken Green; Detomaso Email List
    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
    John,
    If the car sells on eBay the final sale price will be shown. I think
    the auction disappears after 90 days.
    Mike
    Sent from my iPad
    > On Mar 7, 2018, at 19:43, <[11]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>
    <[12]gt40 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
    >
    > Re: Ebay, I see many P's for sale there, but is there are way to
  see
    what they actually sold for? Or are my techie skills so low that I'm
    missing how to find that info out? (highly likely!)
    > Any help would be appreciated.
    >
    > John
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message----- From: Ken Green via DeTomaso
    > Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:56 PM
    > To: Detomaso Email List
    > Subject: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
    >
    > Was watching an auction (or looking at cars on ebay) and with the
    resolution of the images, how can you ever tell the value of the
  cars?
    It seems pretty clear that there is a huge difference between a car
    that looks good from 10 feet, and one that is nearly perfect, and had
  a
    lot of money spent to reach that level.  I can imagine a professional
    appraiser taking that into account, but seems hard for the average
    buyer.  I  think some of the other marques have developed standards?
    > Ken
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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    [23]DeTomaso Info Page
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    This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
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  References
    1. [1]mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
    2. [2]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
    3. [3]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
    4. [4]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
    5. [5]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
    6. [6]mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
    7. [7]mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
    8. [8]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
    9. [9]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
    10. [10]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
    11. [11]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
    12. [12]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
    13. [13]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
    14. [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  [15]DeTomaso Info Page
  server.detomasolist.com
  This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
  discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
  unmoderated mailing list ...
    15. [16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  [17]DeTomaso Info Page
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  discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
  unmoderated mailing list ...
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    17. [19]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
    18. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  [21]DeTomaso Info Page
  server.detomasolist.com
  This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
  discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
  unmoderated mailing list ...
    19. [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  [23]DeTomaso Info Page
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  This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
  discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
  unmoderated mailing list ...
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    21. [25]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
    22. [26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
    23. [27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
    24. [28]http://server.detomasolist.com/
  _______________________________________________
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  [30]DeTomaso Info Page
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References

  1. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
  2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  3. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  4. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  5. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  6. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
  7. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
  8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  11. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  12. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  18. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  24. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  25. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  28. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  29. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  30. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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-------------- next part --------------
   I'm not sure all inspectors are equally qualified to inspect a Pantera,
   and I don't think most inspectors help buyers to get an idea of what
   they may want to upgrade.  It seems like many if not most Pantera
   owners end up making changes they didn't originally plan (is that a
   sickness?).  I suppose the buyer could get a shop involved before the
   purchase.
   Ken
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
   Cc: Detomaso Email List <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 7:20 AM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
     What you describe sounds exactly like a PPI (Pre-Purchase Inspection)
     or condition appraisal, from there it is purely a case of what a
     prospective owner is willing to pay and the seller willing to let it
   go
     for.
     Julian
       __________________________________________________________________
     From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
   behalf of
     Ken Green via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:41 PM
     To: Mike Drew
     Cc: Detomaso Email List
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
     Thinking out of the box ...
     I bought a Pantera in 75 and sold it a couple years later, and
   avoided
     Panteras for years because of rust.  Now I accept dealing with rust
   is
     just an added cost when buying a Pantera.  I cringe when I see a car
     described as a rust free barn find in a warehouse in Florida next to
     the ocean.  Maybe it's possible for a car to sit in salt air for 30
     years and not rust, but I suspect more often, the paint is holding
   the
     body together.  There is another myth about "California cars"  where
   a
     lot of Panteras lived next to the beach.
     I agree that score based on the car's originality does not make sense
     for most Panteras.  However, a qualified appraiser should be able to
     give an opinion on potential rust issues.  The quality of the paint
   is
     even easier, and the cost of repainting.  The suitability of the
   wheels
     for modern tires is simple.  The ZF is a big issue as is the engine.
     Recommended upgrades and cost estimates would also be useful.
     Maybe a questionnaire completed by a potential buyer describing what
     they want and what they like.  Then a given car can be appraised to
     determine if the purchase makes sense.  I suspect many buyers would
     decide to spend more up front when the recognize the cost of making a
     Pantera into their dream car.
     I just threw this together as a example.  I'm sure others can come up
     with more appropriate categories.  My point is that there should be
     some objective way to put a price on a given car, and maybe even
   factor
     in the subjective goals of a buyer.
     Ken
         From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso
   <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
       To: Ken Green <[4]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
     Cc: Detomaso Email List <[5]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
       Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:57 AM
       Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
       Ken,
       To put it mildly, you're dreaming!
       You are comparing apples to oranges. Corvette restorers RESTORE
       Corvettes. Pantera shops call what they do `restoration' but I can
       think of fewer than a handful of Panteras that have ever been
     PROPERLY
       restored in the traditional sense. Pantera shops instead choose to
       modify cars and call it restoration, which is totally ridiculous.
       I'm not saying it's a bad thing to modify a Pantera, but it's
     laughable
       to then claim that you have restored it.
       I visited Jim Demick in New Mexico yesterday. In his den (on the
     second
       floor of the beautiful home he built himself with his own two
   hands)
     is
       a fully restored, perfectly detailed 1971 Pantera engine, with
   every
       original detail--every tag, stamp, hose, wire etc being completely
       original, and restored to Pebble Beach standards. It would be nice
   if
       there was that level of respect for at least some of our cars, but
       unlike the Corvette gang, few seem to have it.
       To be fair, we had just been ripping around at 130 mph in his 1971
       Pantera that has a 600 hp 408 stroker. And undoubtedly that is way
     more
       fun than creeping around slowly in a bone stock Pantera with one
   eye
     on
       the water temp gauge all the time.
       We then went for a drive in his bone stock, 100% numbers matching
       concours `65 Corvette coupe.  We drove slowly on side roads to
   avoid
       the freeway. That was a lot of fun too, in a different way.
       Apples and oranges....
       image1.jpeg
       image2.jpeg
       Mike
       Sent from my iPad
       On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:55, Ken Green <[1][6]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
   wrote:
       Has anyone proposed establishing a rating system for Panteras, and
     have
       a certification process for appraisers?  I was watching the crazy
     high
       prices of Corvettes at one of the auctions.  It seems like the
   Vette
       folks have a very organized rating system, and once a car has been
       rated, a buyer knows what they are getting.  I don't expect to see
       typical Panteras selling for $300K, but when the owner spends $100K
   +
       on a high quality restoration, it seems like they never recover the
       investment.  That also hurts the shops because people are less will
     to
       spend $s on their cars when it doesn't increase the value very
   much.
       If the vendors and POCA got together and created something, I think
     it
       would have a big benefit.
       Ken

   __________________________________________________________________
       From: Julian Kift <[2][7]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
       To: "[3][8]gt40 at sbcglobal.net" <[4][9]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>; Mike
   Drew
       <[5][10]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
       Cc: Ken Green <[6][11]kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Detomaso Email List
       <[7][12]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
       Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 8:12 PM
       Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
       You can narrow down results with a check box on the left side
       for 'completed items' or 'sold items', the former will include sold
       listings and what non-sold cars were bid to, the distinction is
       those sold have the price in bold green. The caveat with eBay is
   that
       there are no penalties for winning and not following through with
   the
       purchase, so you'll often see the same car sold a number of times
       at different prices as yahoo's bid on anything for the shear fun of
     it.
       Julian

   __________________________________________________________________
       From: DeTomaso <[8][13]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
     behalf
       of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[9][14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
       Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 6:48 PM
       To: [10][15]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
       Cc: Ken Green; Detomaso Email List
       Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
       John,
       If the car sells on eBay the final sale price will be shown. I
   think
       the auction disappears after 90 days.
       Mike
       Sent from my iPad
       > On Mar 7, 2018, at 19:43, <[11][16]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>
       <[12][17]gt40 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
       >
       > Re: Ebay, I see many P's for sale there, but is there are way to
     see
       what they actually sold for? Or are my techie skills so low that
   I'm
       missing how to find that info out? (highly likely!)
       > Any help would be appreciated.
       >
       > John
       >
       >
       > -----Original Message----- From: Ken Green via DeTomaso
       > Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:56 PM
       > To: Detomaso Email List
       > Subject: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
       >
       > Was watching an auction (or looking at cars on ebay) and with the
       resolution of the images, how can you ever tell the value of the
     cars?
       It seems pretty clear that there is a huge difference between a car
       that looks good from 10 feet, and one that is nearly perfect, and
   had
     a
       lot of money spent to reach that level.  I can imagine a
   professional
       appraiser taking that into account, but seems hard for the average
       buyer.  I  think some of the other marques have developed
   standards?
       > Ken
       >
       >
       >
       >
       >
       > _______________________________________________
       >
       >
       > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
       > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
       > DeTomaso mailing list
       > [13][18]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
       > [14][19]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
       [15]DeTomaso Info Page
       [16]server.detomasolist.com
       This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
       discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is
   an
       unmoderated mailing list ...
       >
       > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
       use the links above.
       >
       > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
   forward
       any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
     the
       list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive
       or approve the archiving of list messages.
       > _______________________________________________
       >
       >
       > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
       > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
       > DeTomaso mailing list
       > [17][20]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
       > [18][21]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
       [19]DeTomaso Info Page
       [20]server.detomasolist.com
       This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
       discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is
   an
       unmoderated mailing list ...
       >
       > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
       use the links above.
       >
       > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
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       list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
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       or approve the archiving of list messages.
       _______________________________________________
       Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
       Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
       DeTomaso mailing list
       [21][22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
       [22][23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
       [23]DeTomaso Info Page
       [24]server.detomasolist.com
       This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
       discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is
   an
       unmoderated mailing list ...
       To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
       use the links above.
       Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any
       message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
       list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive
       or approve the archiving of list messages.
     References
       1. [1]mailto:[24]kenn_green at yahoo.com
       2. [2]mailto:[25]julian_kift at hotmail.com
       3. [3]mailto:[26]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
       4. [4]mailto:[27]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
       5. [5]mailto:[28]MikeLDrew at aol.com
       6. [6]mailto:[29]kenn_green at yahoo.com
       7. [7]mailto:[30]detomaso at detomasolist.com
       8. [8]mailto:[31]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
       9. [9]mailto:[32]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
       10. [10]mailto:[33]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
       11. [11]mailto:[34]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
       12. [12]mailto:[35]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
       13. [13]mailto:[36]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
       14.
   [14][37]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     [15]DeTomaso Info Page
     server.detomasolist.com
     This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
     discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
     unmoderated mailing list ...
       15.
   [16][38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     [17]DeTomaso Info Page
     server.detomasolist.com
     This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
     discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
     unmoderated mailing list ...
       16. [18][39]http://server.detomasolist.com/
       17. [19]mailto:[40]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
       18.
   [20][41]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     [21]DeTomaso Info Page
     server.detomasolist.com
     This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
     discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
     unmoderated mailing list ...
       19.
   [22][42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     [23]DeTomaso Info Page
     server.detomasolist.com
     This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
     discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
     unmoderated mailing list ...
       20. [24][43]http://server.detomasolist.com/
       21. [25]mailto:[44]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
       22.
   [26][45]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
       23.
   [27][46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
       24. [28][47]http://server.detomasolist.com/
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     DeTomaso mailing list
     [48]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     [29][49]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     [30]DeTomaso Info Page
     server.detomasolist.com
     This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
     discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
     unmoderated mailing list ...
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
     use the links above.
     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   any
     message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
   References
     1. mailto:[50]kenn_green at yahoo.com
     2. mailto:[51]julian_kift at hotmail.com
     3. mailto:[52]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
     4. mailto:[53]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
     5. mailto:[54]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     6. mailto:[55]kenn_green at yahoo.com
     7. mailto:[56]detomaso at detomasolist.com
     8. mailto:[57]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     9. mailto:[58]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     10. mailto:[59]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
     11. mailto:[60]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
     12. mailto:[61]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
     13. mailto:[62]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     14. [63]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     15. [64]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     16. [65]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     17. [66]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     18. [67]http://server.detomasolist.com/
     19. mailto:[68]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     20. [69]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     21. [70]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     22. [71]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     23. [72]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     24. [73]http://server.detomasolist.com/
     25. mailto:[74]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     26. [75]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     27. [76]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     28. [77]http://server.detomasolist.com/
     29. [78]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     30. [79]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [80]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [81]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.

References

   1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   4. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   5. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
   6. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   7. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   8. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
   9. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  10. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  11. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
  12. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
  13. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  14. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  15. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  16. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  17. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  24. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
  25. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  26. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  27. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  28. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  29. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
  30. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
  31. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  32. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  33. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  34. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  35. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  36. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  37. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  39. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  40. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  41. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  43. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  44. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  45. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  46. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  47. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  48. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  49. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  50. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
  51. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  52. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  53. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  54. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  55. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
  56. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
  57. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  58. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  59. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  60. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  61. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  62. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  63. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  64. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  65. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  66. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  67. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  68. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  69. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  70. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  71. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  72. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  73. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  74. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  75. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  77. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  78. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  79. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  80. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  81. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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