[DeTomaso] Values of cars

Mike Drew MikeLDrew at aol.com
Fri Mar 9 02:07:13 EST 2018


All,

You are giving me far too much credit!

Sadly, I honestly don’t believe there is a man alive qualified to render expert judgement with respect to originality in all areas on a Pantera. Unlike other marques, ours is unique in that originality was never valued and modifications were prevalent even when the cars were new (between Ford efforts and owner hot-rodding). The innumerable design changes as the cars were being built means that the trivial details literally changed week to week on the assembly line. Thus it’s impossible to state with certainty all the details that would be ‘right’ for a specific car. 

One would think Pantera vendors would have a better handle on this than most, but they never cared about it one bit. They couldn’t wait to rip off all the original stuff and load them up with their aftermarket parts.  I doubt even Gary Hall would have been able to act as a true arbiter of what is ‘right’ for a particular car, and that is really saying something.

There have only been a handful of time warp cars saved.  A few years ago Fred Phillips bought a 700-mile L model from the original owner; that owner originally took possession even  before dealer prep was done so it had a number of details that even first owners never got to see, including stickers on all the turn signals, etc. 

Sadly, he sold it just a few weeks later before I got a chance to fly up to see it.  Even worse, he sold it to a compulsive hoarder who inherited billions and bought something like 1000+ cars in the space of just a year or two. The Pantera was just lost in the shuffle, and lies jammed in a warehouse door handle to door handle with 999+ other equally special cars. 

The only saving grace is that eventually it will reappear, although it might be 30-40 years before its seen again......

Steve Wilkinson bought three GT5-S cars brand new, and mothballed one of them after a short period of driving it. He is now reconditioning it for sale, and working hard to return it to original. Even he had to struggle a bit though, as he had started modifying it right away when he first bought it. He phoned me asking for help with the original air cleaner. He still had it, but couldn’t figure out how it was installed (the later cars had a very strange configuration). I was able to find original period magazine articles and scan engine bay photos which revealed what he needed to know....

Mike

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 8, 2018, at 18:50, Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. <byrdjf at embarqmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I think a book that documents the original details would be of interest to others than just me.
> Besides just photos, there would need to be a narrative.
> Like, I would LOVE to see multiple photo's of Jim Demick's engine, but without a Mike Drew commentary, I wouldn't know what I was looking for 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2018 12:57 PM
> To: Ken Green
> Cc: Detomaso Email List
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
> 
> Ken,
> 
> To put it mildly, you’re dreaming!
> 
> You are comparing apples to oranges. Corvette restorers RESTORE Corvettes. Pantera shops call what they do ‘restoration’ but I can think of fewer than a handful of Panteras that have ever been PROPERLY restored in the traditional sense. Pantera shops instead choose to modify cars and call it restoration, which is totally ridiculous. 
> 
> I’m not saying it’s a bad thing to modify a Pantera, but it’s laughable to then claim that you have restored it. 
> 
> I visited Jim Demick in New Mexico yesterday. In his den (on the second floor of the beautiful home he built himself with his own two hands) is a fully restored, perfectly detailed 1971 Pantera engine, with every original detail—every tag, stamp, hose, wire etc being completely original, and restored to Pebble Beach standards. It would be nice if there was that level of respect for at least some of our cars, but unlike the Corvette gang, few seem to have it. 
> 
> To be fair, we had just been ripping around at 130 mph in his 1971 Pantera that has a 600 hp 408 stroker. And undoubtedly that is way more fun than creeping around slowly in a bone stock Pantera with one eye on the water temp gauge all the time. 
> 
> We then went for a drive in his bone stock, 100% numbers matching concours ‘65 Corvette coupe.  We drove slowly on side roads to avoid the freeway. That was a lot of fun too, in a different way.
> 
> Apples and oranges....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:55, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Has anyone proposed establishing a rating system for Panteras, and have a certification process for appraisers?  I was watching the crazy high prices of Corvettes at one of the auctions.  It seems like the Vette folks have a very organized rating system, and once a car has been rated, a buyer knows what they are getting.  I don't expect to see typical Panteras selling for $300K, but when the owner spends $100K + on a high quality restoration, it seems like they never recover the investment.  That also hurts the shops because people are less will to spend $s on their cars when it doesn't increase the value very much.  If the vendors and POCA got together and created something, I think it would have a big benefit.
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
> 
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