[DeTomaso] Values of cars

Julian Kift julian_kift at hotmail.com
Thu Mar 8 18:03:31 EST 2018 

I've inspected a couple of allegedly under 10,000 mile Pantera's and they absolutely did need restoration, unless you wanted them purely to continue to be a static display piece.


Julian

________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Pantdino via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 2:54 PM
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Cc: kenn_green at yahoo.com; detomaso at detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars

There are enough 7000 mile bone stock cars around that there is no need to restore a Pantera to factory condition.

And yes, you will never even break even on having a car restored professionally. At $100 an hour it becomes seriously expensive quickly.

Jim

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Thursday, March 8, 2018, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:

Ken,

To put it mildly, you're dreaming!

You are comparing apples to oranges. Corvette restorers RESTORE
Corvettes. Pantera shops call what they do `restoration' but I can
think of fewer than a handful of Panteras that have ever been PROPERLY
restored in the traditional sense. Pantera shops instead choose to
modify cars and call it restoration, which is totally ridiculous.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to modify a Pantera, but it's laughable
to then claim that you have restored it.

I visited Jim Demick in New Mexico yesterday. In his den (on the second
floor of the beautiful home he built himself with his own two hands) is
a fully restored, perfectly detailed 1971 Pantera engine, with every
original detail--every tag, stamp, hose, wire etc being completely
original, and restored to Pebble Beach standards. It would be nice if
there was that level of respect for at least some of our cars, but
unlike the Corvette gang, few seem to have it.

To be fair, we had just been ripping around at 130 mph in his 1971
Pantera that has a 600 hp 408 stroker. And undoubtedly that is way more
fun than creeping around slowly in a bone stock Pantera with one eye on
the water temp gauge all the time.

We then went for a drive in his bone stock, 100% numbers matching
concours `65 Corvette coupe. We drove slowly on side roads to avoid
the freeway. That was a lot of fun too, in a different way.

Apples and oranges....

image1.jpeg

image2.jpeg

Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:55, Ken Green <[1]kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

Has anyone proposed establishing a rating system for Panteras, and have
a certification process for appraisers? I was watching the crazy high
prices of Corvettes at one of the auctions. It seems like the Vette
folks have a very organized rating system, and once a car has been
rated, a buyer knows what they are getting. I don't expect to see
typical Panteras selling for $300K, but when the owner spends $100K +
on a high quality restoration, it seems like they never recover the
investment. That also hurts the shops because people are less will to
spend $s on their cars when it doesn't increase the value very much.
If the vendors and POCA got together and created something, I think it
would have a big benefit.
Ken
__________________________________________________________________

From: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: "[3]gt40 at sbcglobal.net" <[4]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>; Mike Drew
<[5]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: Ken Green <[6]kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Detomaso Email List
<[7]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
You can narrow down results with a check box on the left side
for 'completed items' or 'sold items', the former will include sold
listings and what non-sold cars were bid to, the distinction is
those sold have the price in bold green. The caveat with eBay is that
there are no penalties for winning and not following through with the
purchase, so you'll often see the same car sold a number of times
at different prices as yahoo's bid on anything for the shear fun of it.
Julian
__________________________________________________________________

From: DeTomaso <[8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 6:48 PM
To: [10]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
Cc: Ken Green; Detomaso Email List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars

John,
If the car sells on eBay the final sale price will be shown. I think
the auction disappears after 90 days.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 7, 2018, at 19:43, <[11]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>
<[12]gt40 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Re: Ebay, I see many P's for sale there, but is there are way to see
what they actually sold for? Or are my techie skills so low that I'm
missing how to find that info out? (highly likely!)
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Ken Green via DeTomaso
> Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:56 PM
> To: Detomaso Email List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
>
> Was watching an auction (or looking at cars on ebay) and with the
resolution of the images, how can you ever tell the value of the cars?
It seems pretty clear that there is a huge difference between a car
that looks good from 10 feet, and one that is nearly perfect, and had a
lot of money spent to reach that level. I can imagine a professional
appraiser taking that into account, but seems hard for the average
buyer. I think some of the other marques have developed standards?
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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References

1. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
3. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
4. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
5. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
6. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
7. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
11. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
12. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
DeTomaso Info Page<http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>
server.detomasolist.com
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15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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server.detomasolist.com
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16. http://server.detomasolist.com/
17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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server.detomasolist.com
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19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
20. http://server.detomasolist.com/
21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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-------------- next part --------------
   I've inspected a couple of allegedly under 10,000 mile Pantera's and
   they absolutely did need restoration, unless you wanted them purely to
   continue to be a static display piece.

   Julian
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
   Pantdino via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 2:54 PM
   To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Cc: kenn_green at yahoo.com; detomaso at detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars

   There are enough 7000 mile bone stock cars around that there is no need
   to restore a Pantera to factory condition.
   And yes, you will never even break even on having a car restored
   professionally. At $100 an hour it becomes seriously expensive quickly.
   Jim
   Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
   On Thursday, March 8, 2018, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
   <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
   Ken,
   To put it mildly, you're dreaming!
   You are comparing apples to oranges. Corvette restorers RESTORE
   Corvettes. Pantera shops call what they do `restoration' but I can
   think of fewer than a handful of Panteras that have ever been PROPERLY
   restored in the traditional sense. Pantera shops instead choose to
   modify cars and call it restoration, which is totally ridiculous.
   I'm not saying it's a bad thing to modify a Pantera, but it's laughable
   to then claim that you have restored it.
   I visited Jim Demick in New Mexico yesterday. In his den (on the second
   floor of the beautiful home he built himself with his own two hands) is
   a fully restored, perfectly detailed 1971 Pantera engine, with every
   original detail--every tag, stamp, hose, wire etc being completely
   original, and restored to Pebble Beach standards. It would be nice if
   there was that level of respect for at least some of our cars, but
   unlike the Corvette gang, few seem to have it.
   To be fair, we had just been ripping around at 130 mph in his 1971
   Pantera that has a 600 hp 408 stroker. And undoubtedly that is way more
   fun than creeping around slowly in a bone stock Pantera with one eye on
   the water temp gauge all the time.
   We then went for a drive in his bone stock, 100% numbers matching
   concours `65 Corvette coupe. We drove slowly on side roads to avoid
   the freeway. That was a lot of fun too, in a different way.
   Apples and oranges....
   image1.jpeg
   image2.jpeg
   Mike
   Sent from my iPad
   On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:55, Ken Green <[1]kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
   Has anyone proposed establishing a rating system for Panteras, and have
   a certification process for appraisers? I was watching the crazy high
   prices of Corvettes at one of the auctions. It seems like the Vette
   folks have a very organized rating system, and once a car has been
   rated, a buyer knows what they are getting. I don't expect to see
   typical Panteras selling for $300K, but when the owner spends $100K +
   on a high quality restoration, it seems like they never recover the
   investment. That also hurts the shops because people are less will to
   spend $s on their cars when it doesn't increase the value very much.
   If the vendors and POCA got together and created something, I think it
   would have a big benefit.
   Ken
   __________________________________________________________________
   From: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   To: "[3]gt40 at sbcglobal.net" <[4]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>; Mike Drew
   <[5]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
   Cc: Ken Green <[6]kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Detomaso Email List
   <[7]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 8:12 PM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
   You can narrow down results with a check box on the left side
   for 'completed items' or 'sold items', the former will include sold
   listings and what non-sold cars were bid to, the distinction is
   those sold have the price in bold green. The caveat with eBay is that
   there are no penalties for winning and not following through with the
   purchase, so you'll often see the same car sold a number of times
   at different prices as yahoo's bid on anything for the shear fun of it.
   Julian
   __________________________________________________________________
   From: DeTomaso <[8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
   of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 6:48 PM
   To: [10]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
   Cc: Ken Green; Detomaso Email List
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
   John,
   If the car sells on eBay the final sale price will be shown. I think
   the auction disappears after 90 days.
   Mike
   Sent from my iPad
   > On Mar 7, 2018, at 19:43, <[11]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>
   <[12]gt40 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
   >
   > Re: Ebay, I see many P's for sale there, but is there are way to see
   what they actually sold for? Or are my techie skills so low that I'm
   missing how to find that info out? (highly likely!)
   > Any help would be appreciated.
   >
   > John
   >
   >
   > -----Original Message----- From: Ken Green via DeTomaso
   > Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:56 PM
   > To: Detomaso Email List
   > Subject: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
   >
   > Was watching an auction (or looking at cars on ebay) and with the
   resolution of the images, how can you ever tell the value of the cars?
   It seems pretty clear that there is a huge difference between a car
   that looks good from 10 feet, and one that is nearly perfect, and had a
   lot of money spent to reach that level. I can imagine a professional
   appraiser taking that into account, but seems hard for the average
   buyer. I think some of the other marques have developed standards?
   > Ken
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   >
   > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
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   > [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   [15]DeTomaso Info Page
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   discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
   unmoderated mailing list ...
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   >
   > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.
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   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
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   References
   1. [1]mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   2. [2]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   3. [3]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
   4. [4]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
   5. [5]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   6. [6]mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   7. [7]mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
   8. [8]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   9. [9]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   10. [10]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
   11. [11]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
   12. [12]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
   13. [13]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   14. [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   [15]DeTomaso Info Page
   server.detomasolist.com
   This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
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   16. [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/
   17. [19]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   18. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   [21]DeTomaso Info Page
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   19. [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   20. [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/
   21. [24]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   22. [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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References

   1. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   3. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
   4. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
   5. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   6. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   7. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
   8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  11. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  12. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  18. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  23. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  29. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  30. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  31. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

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