[DeTomaso] Values of cars

Pantdino pantdino at aol.com
Thu Mar 8 17:54:12 EST 2018


There are enough 7000 mile bone stock cars around that there is no need to restore a Pantera to factory condition. 

And yes, you will never even break even on having a car restored professionally. At $100 an hour it becomes seriously expensive quickly.

Jim

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Thursday, March 8, 2018, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:

Ken,

To put it mildly, you're dreaming!

You are comparing apples to oranges. Corvette restorers RESTORE
Corvettes. Pantera shops call what they do `restoration' but I can
think of fewer than a handful of Panteras that have ever been PROPERLY
restored in the traditional sense. Pantera shops instead choose to
modify cars and call it restoration, which is totally ridiculous.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to modify a Pantera, but it's laughable
to then claim that you have restored it.

I visited Jim Demick in New Mexico yesterday. In his den (on the second
floor of the beautiful home he built himself with his own two hands) is
a fully restored, perfectly detailed 1971 Pantera engine, with every
original detail--every tag, stamp, hose, wire etc being completely
original, and restored to Pebble Beach standards. It would be nice if
there was that level of respect for at least some of our cars, but
unlike the Corvette gang, few seem to have it.

To be fair, we had just been ripping around at 130 mph in his 1971
Pantera that has a 600 hp 408 stroker. And undoubtedly that is way more
fun than creeping around slowly in a bone stock Pantera with one eye on
the water temp gauge all the time.

We then went for a drive in his bone stock, 100% numbers matching
concours `65 Corvette coupe. We drove slowly on side roads to avoid
the freeway. That was a lot of fun too, in a different way.

Apples and oranges....

image1.jpeg

image2.jpeg

Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:55, Ken Green <[1]kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

Has anyone proposed establishing a rating system for Panteras, and have
a certification process for appraisers? I was watching the crazy high
prices of Corvettes at one of the auctions. It seems like the Vette
folks have a very organized rating system, and once a car has been
rated, a buyer knows what they are getting. I don't expect to see
typical Panteras selling for $300K, but when the owner spends $100K +
on a high quality restoration, it seems like they never recover the
investment. That also hurts the shops because people are less will to
spend $s on their cars when it doesn't increase the value very much.
If the vendors and POCA got together and created something, I think it
would have a big benefit.
Ken
__________________________________________________________________

From: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: "[3]gt40 at sbcglobal.net" <[4]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>; Mike Drew
<[5]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: Ken Green <[6]kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Detomaso Email List
<[7]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
You can narrow down results with a check box on the left side
for 'completed items' or 'sold items', the former will include sold
listings and what non-sold cars were bid to, the distinction is
those sold have the price in bold green. The caveat with eBay is that
there are no penalties for winning and not following through with the
purchase, so you'll often see the same car sold a number of times
at different prices as yahoo's bid on anything for the shear fun of it.
Julian
__________________________________________________________________

From: DeTomaso <[8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 6:48 PM
To: [10]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
Cc: Ken Green; Detomaso Email List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars

John,
If the car sells on eBay the final sale price will be shown. I think
the auction disappears after 90 days.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 7, 2018, at 19:43, <[11]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>
<[12]gt40 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Re: Ebay, I see many P's for sale there, but is there are way to see
what they actually sold for? Or are my techie skills so low that I'm
missing how to find that info out? (highly likely!)
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Ken Green via DeTomaso
> Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:56 PM
> To: Detomaso Email List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
>
> Was watching an auction (or looking at cars on ebay) and with the
resolution of the images, how can you ever tell the value of the cars?
It seems pretty clear that there is a huge difference between a car
that looks good from 10 feet, and one that is nearly perfect, and had a
lot of money spent to reach that level. I can imagine a professional
appraiser taking that into account, but seems hard for the average
buyer. I think some of the other marques have developed standards?
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
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This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
unmoderated mailing list ...
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use the links above.
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list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
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This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
unmoderated mailing list ...
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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References

1. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
3. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
4. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
5. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
6. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
7. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
11. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
12. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
16. http://server.detomasolist.com/
17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
20. http://server.detomasolist.com/
21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
24. http://server.detomasolist.com/
_______________________________________________


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-------------- next part --------------
   There are enough 7000 mile bone stock cars around that there is no need
   to restore a Pantera to factory condition.

   And yes, you will never even break even on having a car restored
   professionally. At $100 an hour it becomes seriously expensive quickly.

   Jim
   Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
   On Thursday, March 8, 2018, Mike Drew via
   DeTomaso <[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:

     Ken,
     To put it mildly, you're dreaming!
     You are comparing apples to oranges. Corvette restorers RESTORE
     Corvettes. Pantera shops call what they do `restoration' but I can
     think of fewer than a handful of Panteras that have ever been
     PROPERLY
     restored in the traditional sense. Pantera shops instead choose to
     modify cars and call it restoration, which is totally ridiculous.
     I'm not saying it's a bad thing to modify a Pantera, but it's
     laughable
     to then claim that you have restored it.
     I visited Jim Demick in New Mexico yesterday. In his den (on the
     second
     floor of the beautiful home he built himself with his own two hands)
     is
     a fully restored, perfectly detailed 1971 Pantera engine, with every
     original detail--every tag, stamp, hose, wire etc being completely
     original, and restored to Pebble Beach standards. It would be nice
     if
     there was that level of respect for at least some of our cars, but
     unlike the Corvette gang, few seem to have it.
     To be fair, we had just been ripping around at 130 mph in his 1971
     Pantera that has a 600 hp 408 stroker. And undoubtedly that is way
     more
     fun than creeping around slowly in a bone stock Pantera with one eye
     on
     the water temp gauge all the time.
     We then went for a drive in his bone stock, 100% numbers matching
     concours `65 Corvette coupe. We drove slowly on side roads to avoid
     the freeway. That was a lot of fun too, in a different way.
     Apples and oranges....
     image1.jpeg
     image2.jpeg
     Mike
     Sent from my iPad
     On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:55, Ken Green <[1][2]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
     wrote:
     Has anyone proposed establishing a rating system for Panteras, and
     have
     a certification process for appraisers? I was watching the crazy
     high
     prices of Corvettes at one of the auctions. It seems like the Vette
     folks have a very organized rating system, and once a car has been
     rated, a buyer knows what they are getting. I don't expect to see
     typical Panteras selling for $300K, but when the owner spends $100K
     +
     on a high quality restoration, it seems like they never recover the
     investment. That also hurts the shops because people are less will
     to
     spend $s on their cars when it doesn't increase the value very much.
     If the vendors and POCA got together and created something, I think
     it
     would have a big benefit.
     Ken
     __________________________________________________________________

     From: Julian Kift <[2][3]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
     To: "[3][4]gt40 at sbcglobal.net" <[4][5]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>; Mike Drew
     <[5][6]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
     Cc: Ken Green <[6][7]kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Detomaso Email List
     <[7][8]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
     Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 8:12 PM
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
     You can narrow down results with a check box on the left side
     for 'completed items' or 'sold items', the former will include sold
     listings and what non-sold cars were bid to, the distinction is
     those sold have the price in bold green. The caveat with eBay is
     that
     there are no penalties for winning and not following through with
     the
     purchase, so you'll often see the same car sold a number of times
     at different prices as yahoo's bid on anything for the shear fun of
     it.
     Julian
     __________________________________________________________________
     From: DeTomaso <[8]detomaso-[9]bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
     behalf
     of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[9][10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 6:48 PM
     To: [10][11]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
     Cc: Ken Green; Detomaso Email List
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
     John,
     If the car sells on eBay the final sale price will be shown. I think
     the auction disappears after 90 days.
     Mike
     Sent from my iPad
     > On Mar 7, 2018, at 19:43, <[11][12]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>
     <[12][13]gt40 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
     >
     > Re: Ebay, I see many P's for sale there, but is there are way to
     see
     what they actually sold for? Or are my techie skills so low that I'm
     missing how to find that info out? (highly likely!)
     > Any help would be appreciated.
     >
     > John
     >
     >
     > -----Original Message----- From: Ken Green via DeTomaso
     > Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:56 PM
     > To: Detomaso Email List
     > Subject: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
     >
     > Was watching an auction (or looking at cars on ebay) and with the
     resolution of the images, how can you ever tell the value of the
     cars?
     It seems pretty clear that there is a huge difference between a car
     that looks good from 10 feet, and one that is nearly perfect, and
     had a
     lot of money spent to reach that level. I can imagine a professional
     appraiser taking that into account, but seems hard for the average
     buyer. I think some of the other marques have developed standards?
     > Ken
     >
     >
     >
     >
     >
     > _______________________________________________
     >
     >
     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing list
     > [13][14]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     > [14][15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     [15]DeTomaso Info Page
     [16][16]server.detomasolist.com
     This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
     discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is
     an
     unmoderated mailing list ...
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
     use the links above.
     >
     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
     the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     > _______________________________________________
     >
     >
     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing list
     > [17][17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     > [18][18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     [19]DeTomaso Info Page
     [20][19]server.detomasolist.com
     This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
     discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is
     an
     unmoderated mailing list ...
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
     use the links above.
     >
     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
     the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     DeTomaso mailing list
     [21][20]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     [22][21]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     [23]DeTomaso Info Page
     [24][22]server.detomasolist.com
     This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
     discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is
     an
     unmoderated mailing list ...
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.)
     use the links above.
     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any
     message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
     archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     References
     1. [23]mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
     2. [24]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
     3. [25]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
     4. [26]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
     5. [27]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
     6. [28]mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
     7. [29]mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
     8. [30]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     9. [31]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     10. [32]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
     11. [33]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
     12. [34]mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
     13. [35]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     14. [36]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     15. [37]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     16. [38]http://server.detomasolist.com/
     17. [39]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     18. [40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     19. [41]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     20. [42]http://server.detomasolist.com/
     21. [43]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     22. [44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     23. [45]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     24. [46]http://server.detomasolist.com/
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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     [48]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.) use the links above.
     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
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     archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

References

   1. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   2. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   3. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   4. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
   5. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
   6. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   7. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   8. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
   9. mailto:bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  11. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  12. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  13. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
  14. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  16. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  19. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  22. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  23. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com?
  24. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com?
  25. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net?
  26. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net?
  27. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com?
  28. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com?
  29. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com?
  30. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
  31. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
  32. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net?
  33. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net?
  34. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net?
  35. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
  36. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  37. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  38. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
  40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  41. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  42. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  43. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
  44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  45. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  46. http://server.detomasolist.com/
  47. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  48. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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