[DeTomaso] Values of cars
Ken Green
kenn_green at yahoo.com
Thu Mar 8 13:19:58 EST 2018
I recognize that the Vettes that sell for big bucks, like $300K+ are special, like a 67 L88, and the buyer is looing for a "collectable". But the restomod Vettes were also bringing $100K+ prices.
I think Panteras are undervalued because of rust issues etc. I don't think buyers care that much about modifications that clearly make the car better, but do care about uncertainty. There seem to be a lot of people willing to drop over $100K for cool car, but they don't want problems.
Ken
From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Cc: Detomaso Email List <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
Ken,
To put it mildly, you're dreaming!
You are comparing apples to oranges. Corvette restorers RESTORE
Corvettes. Pantera shops call what they do `restoration' but I can
think of fewer than a handful of Panteras that have ever been PROPERLY
restored in the traditional sense. Pantera shops instead choose to
modify cars and call it restoration, which is totally ridiculous.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing to modify a Pantera, but it's laughable
to then claim that you have restored it.
I visited Jim Demick in New Mexico yesterday. In his den (on the second
floor of the beautiful home he built himself with his own two hands) is
a fully restored, perfectly detailed 1971 Pantera engine, with every
original detail--every tag, stamp, hose, wire etc being completely
original, and restored to Pebble Beach standards. It would be nice if
there was that level of respect for at least some of our cars, but
unlike the Corvette gang, few seem to have it.
To be fair, we had just been ripping around at 130 mph in his 1971
Pantera that has a 600 hp 408 stroker. And undoubtedly that is way more
fun than creeping around slowly in a bone stock Pantera with one eye on
the water temp gauge all the time.
We then went for a drive in his bone stock, 100% numbers matching
concours `65 Corvette coupe. We drove slowly on side roads to avoid
the freeway. That was a lot of fun too, in a different way.
Apples and oranges....
image1.jpeg
image2.jpeg
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:55, Ken Green <[1]kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
Has anyone proposed establishing a rating system for Panteras, and have
a certification process for appraisers? I was watching the crazy high
prices of Corvettes at one of the auctions. It seems like the Vette
folks have a very organized rating system, and once a car has been
rated, a buyer knows what they are getting. I don't expect to see
typical Panteras selling for $300K, but when the owner spends $100K +
on a high quality restoration, it seems like they never recover the
investment. That also hurts the shops because people are less will to
spend $s on their cars when it doesn't increase the value very much.
If the vendors and POCA got together and created something, I think it
would have a big benefit.
Ken
__________________________________________________________________
From: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: "[3]gt40 at sbcglobal.net" <[4]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>; Mike Drew
<[5]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: Ken Green <[6]kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Detomaso Email List
<[7]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
You can narrow down results with a check box on the left side
for 'completed items' or 'sold items', the former will include sold
listings and what non-sold cars were bid to, the distinction is
those sold have the price in bold green. The caveat with eBay is that
there are no penalties for winning and not following through with the
purchase, so you'll often see the same car sold a number of times
at different prices as yahoo's bid on anything for the shear fun of it.
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <[8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 6:48 PM
To: [10]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
Cc: Ken Green; Detomaso Email List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
John,
If the car sells on eBay the final sale price will be shown. I think
the auction disappears after 90 days.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 7, 2018, at 19:43, <[11]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>
<[12]gt40 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Re: Ebay, I see many P's for sale there, but is there are way to see
what they actually sold for? Or are my techie skills so low that I'm
missing how to find that info out? (highly likely!)
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Ken Green via DeTomaso
> Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:56 PM
> To: Detomaso Email List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
>
> Was watching an auction (or looking at cars on ebay) and with the
resolution of the images, how can you ever tell the value of the cars?
It seems pretty clear that there is a huge difference between a car
that looks good from 10 feet, and one that is nearly perfect, and had a
lot of money spent to reach that level. I can imagine a professional
appraiser taking that into account, but seems hard for the average
buyer. I think some of the other marques have developed standards?
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
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References
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-------------- next part --------------
I recognize that the Vettes that sell for big bucks, like $300K+ are
special, like a 67 L88, and the buyer is looing for a "collectable".
But the restomod Vettes were also bringing $100K+ prices.
I think Panteras are undervalued because of rust issues etc. I don't
think buyers care that much about modifications that clearly make the
car better, but do care about uncertainty. There seem to be a lot of
people willing to drop over $100K for cool car, but they don't want
problems.
Ken
__________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Cc: Detomaso Email List <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
Ken,
To put it mildly, you're dreaming!
You are comparing apples to oranges. Corvette restorers RESTORE
Corvettes. Pantera shops call what they do `restoration' but I can
think of fewer than a handful of Panteras that have ever been
PROPERLY
restored in the traditional sense. Pantera shops instead choose to
modify cars and call it restoration, which is totally ridiculous.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing to modify a Pantera, but it's
laughable
to then claim that you have restored it.
I visited Jim Demick in New Mexico yesterday. In his den (on the
second
floor of the beautiful home he built himself with his own two hands)
is
a fully restored, perfectly detailed 1971 Pantera engine, with every
original detail--every tag, stamp, hose, wire etc being completely
original, and restored to Pebble Beach standards. It would be nice if
there was that level of respect for at least some of our cars, but
unlike the Corvette gang, few seem to have it.
To be fair, we had just been ripping around at 130 mph in his 1971
Pantera that has a 600 hp 408 stroker. And undoubtedly that is way
more
fun than creeping around slowly in a bone stock Pantera with one eye
on
the water temp gauge all the time.
We then went for a drive in his bone stock, 100% numbers matching
concours `65 Corvette coupe. We drove slowly on side roads to avoid
the freeway. That was a lot of fun too, in a different way.
Apples and oranges....
image1.jpeg
image2.jpeg
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:55, Ken Green <[1][1]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
wrote:
Has anyone proposed establishing a rating system for Panteras, and
have
a certification process for appraisers? I was watching the crazy
high
prices of Corvettes at one of the auctions. It seems like the Vette
folks have a very organized rating system, and once a car has been
rated, a buyer knows what they are getting. I don't expect to see
typical Panteras selling for $300K, but when the owner spends $100K +
on a high quality restoration, it seems like they never recover the
investment. That also hurts the shops because people are less will
to
spend $s on their cars when it doesn't increase the value very much.
If the vendors and POCA got together and created something, I think
it
would have a big benefit.
Ken
__________________________________________________________________
From: Julian Kift <[2][2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: "[3][3]gt40 at sbcglobal.net" <[4][4]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>; Mike Drew
<[5][5]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: Ken Green <[6][6]kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Detomaso Email List
<[7][7]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
You can narrow down results with a check box on the left side
for 'completed items' or 'sold items', the former will include sold
listings and what non-sold cars were bid to, the distinction is
those sold have the price in bold green. The caveat with eBay is that
there are no penalties for winning and not following through with the
purchase, so you'll often see the same car sold a number of times
at different prices as yahoo's bid on anything for the shear fun of
it.
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <[8][8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
behalf
of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[9][9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 6:48 PM
To: [10][10]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
Cc: Ken Green; Detomaso Email List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
John,
If the car sells on eBay the final sale price will be shown. I think
the auction disappears after 90 days.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 7, 2018, at 19:43, <[11][11]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>
<[12][12]gt40 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Re: Ebay, I see many P's for sale there, but is there are way to
see
what they actually sold for? Or are my techie skills so low that I'm
missing how to find that info out? (highly likely!)
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Ken Green via DeTomaso
> Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:56 PM
> To: Detomaso Email List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
>
> Was watching an auction (or looking at cars on ebay) and with the
resolution of the images, how can you ever tell the value of the
cars?
It seems pretty clear that there is a huge difference between a car
that looks good from 10 feet, and one that is nearly perfect, and had
a
lot of money spent to reach that level. I can imagine a professional
appraiser taking that into account, but seems hard for the average
buyer. I think some of the other marques have developed standards?
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [13][13]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [14][14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
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use the links above.
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> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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or approve the archiving of list messages.
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