[DeTomaso] Values of cars
Mike Drew
MikeLDrew at aol.com
Thu Mar 8 12:57:00 EST 2018
Ken,
To put it mildly, you’re dreaming!
You are comparing apples to oranges. Corvette restorers RESTORE Corvettes. Pantera shops call what they do ‘restoration’ but I can think of fewer than a handful of Panteras that have ever been PROPERLY restored in the traditional sense. Pantera shops instead choose to modify cars and call it restoration, which is totally ridiculous.
I’m not saying it’s a bad thing to modify a Pantera, but it’s laughable to then claim that you have restored it.
I visited Jim Demick in New Mexico yesterday. In his den (on the second floor of the beautiful home he built himself with his own two hands) is a fully restored, perfectly detailed 1971 Pantera engine, with every original detail—every tag, stamp, hose, wire etc being completely original, and restored to Pebble Beach standards. It would be nice if there was that level of respect for at least some of our cars, but unlike the Corvette gang, few seem to have it.
To be fair, we had just been ripping around at 130 mph in his 1971 Pantera that has a 600 hp 408 stroker. And undoubtedly that is way more fun than creeping around slowly in a bone stock Pantera with one eye on the water temp gauge all the time.
We then went for a drive in his bone stock, 100% numbers matching concours ‘65 Corvette coupe. We drove slowly on side roads to avoid the freeway. That was a lot of fun too, in a different way.
Apples and oranges....
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:55, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Has anyone proposed establishing a rating system for Panteras, and have a certification process for appraisers? I was watching the crazy high prices of Corvettes at one of the auctions. It seems like the Vette folks have a very organized rating system, and once a car has been rated, a buyer knows what they are getting. I don't expect to see typical Panteras selling for $300K, but when the owner spends $100K + on a high quality restoration, it seems like they never recover the investment. That also hurts the shops because people are less will to spend $s on their cars when it doesn't increase the value very much. If the vendors and POCA got together and created something, I think it would have a big benefit.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> To: "gt40 at sbcglobal.net" <gt40 at sbcglobal.net>; Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Cc: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Detomaso Email List <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 8:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
>
> You can narrow down results with a check box on the left side for 'completed items' or 'sold items', the former will include sold listings and what non-sold cars were bid to, the distinction is those sold have the price in bold green. The caveat with eBay is that there are no penalties for winning and not following through with the purchase, so you'll often see the same car sold a number of times at different prices as yahoo's bid on anything for the shear fun of it.
>
> Julian
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 6:48 PM
> To: gt40 at sbcglobal.net
> Cc: Ken Green; Detomaso Email List
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
>
> John,
>
> If the car sells on eBay the final sale price will be shown. I think the auction disappears after 90 days.
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 7, 2018, at 19:43, <gt40 at sbcglobal.net> <gt40 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > Re: Ebay, I see many P's for sale there, but is there are way to see what they actually sold for? Or are my techie skills so low that I'm missing how to find that info out? (highly likely!)
> > Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: Ken Green via DeTomaso
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:56 PM
> > To: Detomaso Email List
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
> >
> > Was watching an auction (or looking at cars on ebay) and with the resolution of the images, how can you ever tell the value of the cars? It seems pretty clear that there is a huge difference between a car that looks good from 10 feet, and one that is nearly perfect, and had a lot of money spent to reach that level. I can imagine a professional appraiser taking that into account, but seems hard for the average buyer. I think some of the other marques have developed standards?
> > Ken
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> DeTomaso Info Page
> server.detomasolist.com
> This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an unmoderated mailing list ...
>
>
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> DeTomaso Info Page
> server.detomasolist.com
> This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an unmoderated mailing list ...
>
>
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> DeTomaso Info Page
> server.detomasolist.com
> This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an unmoderated mailing list ...
>
>
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
Ken,
To put it mildly, you're dreaming!
You are comparing apples to oranges. Corvette restorers RESTORE
Corvettes. Pantera shops call what they do `restoration' but I can
think of fewer than a handful of Panteras that have ever been PROPERLY
restored in the traditional sense. Pantera shops instead choose to
modify cars and call it restoration, which is totally ridiculous.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing to modify a Pantera, but it's laughable
to then claim that you have restored it.
I visited Jim Demick in New Mexico yesterday. In his den (on the second
floor of the beautiful home he built himself with his own two hands) is
a fully restored, perfectly detailed 1971 Pantera engine, with every
original detail--every tag, stamp, hose, wire etc being completely
original, and restored to Pebble Beach standards. It would be nice if
there was that level of respect for at least some of our cars, but
unlike the Corvette gang, few seem to have it.
To be fair, we had just been ripping around at 130 mph in his 1971
Pantera that has a 600 hp 408 stroker. And undoubtedly that is way more
fun than creeping around slowly in a bone stock Pantera with one eye on
the water temp gauge all the time.
We then went for a drive in his bone stock, 100% numbers matching
concours `65 Corvette coupe. We drove slowly on side roads to avoid
the freeway. That was a lot of fun too, in a different way.
Apples and oranges....
image1.jpeg
image2.jpeg
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 8, 2018, at 10:55, Ken Green <[1]kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
Has anyone proposed establishing a rating system for Panteras, and have
a certification process for appraisers? I was watching the crazy high
prices of Corvettes at one of the auctions. It seems like the Vette
folks have a very organized rating system, and once a car has been
rated, a buyer knows what they are getting. I don't expect to see
typical Panteras selling for $300K, but when the owner spends $100K +
on a high quality restoration, it seems like they never recover the
investment. That also hurts the shops because people are less will to
spend $s on their cars when it doesn't increase the value very much.
If the vendors and POCA got together and created something, I think it
would have a big benefit.
Ken
__________________________________________________________________
From: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: "[3]gt40 at sbcglobal.net" <[4]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>; Mike Drew
<[5]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: Ken Green <[6]kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Detomaso Email List
<[7]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
You can narrow down results with a check box on the left side
for 'completed items' or 'sold items', the former will include sold
listings and what non-sold cars were bid to, the distinction is
those sold have the price in bold green. The caveat with eBay is that
there are no penalties for winning and not following through with the
purchase, so you'll often see the same car sold a number of times
at different prices as yahoo's bid on anything for the shear fun of it.
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <[8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 6:48 PM
To: [10]gt40 at sbcglobal.net
Cc: Ken Green; Detomaso Email List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
John,
If the car sells on eBay the final sale price will be shown. I think
the auction disappears after 90 days.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 7, 2018, at 19:43, <[11]gt40 at sbcglobal.net>
<[12]gt40 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Re: Ebay, I see many P's for sale there, but is there are way to see
what they actually sold for? Or are my techie skills so low that I'm
missing how to find that info out? (highly likely!)
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Ken Green via DeTomaso
> Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:56 PM
> To: Detomaso Email List
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Values of cars
>
> Was watching an auction (or looking at cars on ebay) and with the
resolution of the images, how can you ever tell the value of the cars?
It seems pretty clear that there is a huge difference between a car
that looks good from 10 feet, and one that is nearly perfect, and had a
lot of money spent to reach that level. I can imagine a professional
appraiser taking that into account, but seems hard for the average
buyer. I think some of the other marques have developed standards?
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [13]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
[15]DeTomaso Info Page
[16]server.detomasolist.com
This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
unmoderated mailing list ...
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
[19]DeTomaso Info Page
[20]server.detomasolist.com
This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
unmoderated mailing list ...
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[21]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
[23]DeTomaso Info Page
[24]server.detomasolist.com
This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
unmoderated mailing list ...
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
3. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
4. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
5. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
6. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
7. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
11. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
12. mailto:gt40 at sbcglobal.net
13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
16. http://server.detomasolist.com/
17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
20. http://server.detomasolist.com/
21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
24. http://server.detomasolist.com/
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image1.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 174524 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/attachments/20180308/1fd63cd4/attachment.jpeg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image2.jpeg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 150549 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/attachments/20180308/1fd63cd4/attachment-0001.jpeg>
More information about the DeTomaso
mailing list