[DeTomaso] Spinning wheel stud

Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. byrdjf at embarqmail.com
Tue Jul 17 18:43:49 EDT 2018


The nut rotation is what causes the stud to stretch
To rotate the nut, you must exceed the friction between the threads and under the head
That friction is the torque you measure when rotating the nut

When I Assisted with fasteners on precision heavy equipment, torque was rarely a specification with stretch being the primary objective.  When the actual elongation of the bold could not be measure, or just didn't want to...nut rotation was an acceptable method to specify.

The reason for stretching is to provide a known compression or clamping force.  a rule of thumb for most bolts was a 45Kpsi compression was achieved with a bolt stretch 0.0015"/per inch of bolt.

Using a wheel stud  is extreme overkill, but...
Given the stud active length is 1.5" the stretch would be 1.5 X 1.5 = 0.00225"
The thread pitch being 1.5mm (about 0.06" per rotation)
There will be deformation of the threads as the nut is loaded, the rule of thumb is us 70% of pitch, so one would expect 0.040" stretch per revolution.
Assuming all the thread deformation would have from just had tight, that 0.02" could be as much as 33% rotation, about 2 flats,  So from hard snug to full  elongation would be another 0.00225/0.040 = 5% rotation , about 1/3 of a flat on the nut.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Pantdino via DeTomaso
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 16:46 PM
To: kenn_green at yahoo.com
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spinning wheel stud

I think torque is what causes the stretch and the amount of torque determines the amount of stretch. 

A lubricated thread has less friction than a non-lubricated one , so you have to decrease the amount of torque applied. The friction in the thread is part of what you are overcoming with your torque wrench  

But Jack is the real expert here. Maybe he’ll chime in. 

Jim

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Tuesday, July 17, 2018, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

I recall that stretch is more accurate then torque.  I wonder if there is a reliable way to compare turn after contact with stretch?  I guess that's a stretch?

Ken


From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: larrys at panteraparts.com
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Spinning wheel stud

  But keep in mind that anti-seize is acting like a lubricant as you
  tighten the nut, so you need to subtract maybe 10% from the torque
  applied. Certainly donat exceed it.

  Jim
  Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
  On Monday, July 16, 2018, Larry Stock <larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:

    Dear Sean, and all Pantera Owners, please liberally use anti-seize
    on all
    your wheel studs each time you take off a lug nut to avoid this
    situation.
    What Sean will need to properly fix this is typically a new $700+
    billet
    axle & Bearing installation to properly cure his problem. Please
    take a
    little more care and prevent the dilemma that Sean has endured.
    Larry Stock

  On 7/16/18, 5:26 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of sean mundy"
  <detomaso-[1]bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
  [2]seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
  > I tried all the suggestions with no luck. The jack idea did put
  > pressure on the wheel but I was nervous to really apply a lot of
  force.
  > I've already screwed up enough. I just drilled out the stud and was
  > able to get the last lug nut off and remove the wheel.
  > Only took about 10min using three different drill bit sizes.
  > Now the hard part begins taking the rest of the hub apart. And
  spending
  > $$$
  > From: [1]sean mundy
  > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 2:57 PM
  > To: [2][3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com,
  [3][4]larry at ohiotimecorp.com
  > You are using the jack between the bottom of the wheels and pushing
  > them against each other??
  > From: [5]larry at ohiotimecorp.com<[6]mailto:larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
  > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 2:33 PM
  > To:
  >
  [7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<[8]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasol
  ist.co
  > m>
  > I'm with Jeff on this one. Pressure baby pressure.
  > I have had to do this a time or two. I have two 4" X 4" with about a
  6"
  > X 6" plywood screwed to the ends. The plywood goes on
  > the inside of each rim, for protection. You then place a scissor jack
  > in the center to apply pressure against the rim. Not too
  > much pressure, just enough pressure.
  > Make sure the spinning stud is down on the bottom to get most of the
  > pressure. Youse your electric impact to give it a good
  > shot.
  > Larry (worked for me) - Cleveland
  > Sean:
  > Since the other three lugs came off, try prying the wheel away from
  the
  > hub cocking the wheel a bit. You'll probably need a
  > piece of wood or something that won't damage the wheel. The idea is
  to
  > put enough load on the studs that the hat on the back
  > of the stud will bind against the axle flange "freezing" the stud and
  > then the impact wrench will loosen the nut. This might
  > take a bit of force and finesse, and several sets of hands.
  > It's been some time since I've had mine apart, but if you can get the
  > wheel off, you might be able to get a wire-feed or stick
  > welder in there far enough to spot weld the stud and hold it in place
  > until you want to change the studs.
  > Good luck and don't swear too much!!
  > Jeff 2467
  > _______________________________________________
  > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
  > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
  > DeTomaso mailing list
  > [9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  > [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
  > use the links above.
  > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
  any
  > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
  > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
  archive
  > or approve the archiving of list messages.
  >
  >References
  >
  > 1. [11]mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
  > 2. [12]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  > 3. [13]mailto:larry at ohiotimecorp.com
  >_______________________________________________
  >
  >
  >Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
  >Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
  >DeTomaso mailing list
  >[14]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  >[15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  >
  >To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
  use
  >the links above.
  >
  >Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
  >message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
  list.
  >They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
  >approve the archiving of list messages.
  _______________________________________________
  Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
  Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
  DeTomaso mailing list
  [16]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  [17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
  use the links above.
  Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
  message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
  list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
  or approve the archiving of list messages.

References

  1. mailto:bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  2. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com
  3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  4. mailto:larry at ohiotimecorp.com
  5. mailto:larry at ohiotimecorp.com
  6. mailto:larry at ohiotimecorp.com?
  7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  8. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.co?
  9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  11. mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com?
  12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
  13. mailto:larry at ohiotimecorp.com?
  14. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  16. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

_______________________________________________


Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.

Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.





More information about the DeTomaso mailing list