[DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven shock adjustments

L GRAY tipo874a at msn.com
Mon Jan 1 22:30:36 EST 2018


Well put Mr. Mike ! All Sharon and my best to you and Lori for the upcoming year. Happy New Year!
ps: spinal surgery a week from today !! Yeeee haawwww!

Leslie A. Gray

On Jan 1, 2018, at 5:41 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>> wrote:

Hmm,

Somebody (who failed to sign his post) posed a good question below.

The answer is, the upper control arms do NOT have to be modified IF the chassis hasn’t collapsed. With time, some cars have experienced partial collapse of the chassis, due to the relatively weak support provided by the stock fixed-length camber bar. If an adjustable length camber bar is used, and the chassis is forced into its original position, then the stock upper A-arms work perfectly.

Adjustable or longer upper rear A-arms are normally a band-aid fix (which admittedly works reasonably well it seems....)

Mike

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 31, 2017, at 13:28, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>> wrote:

 If the suspension was designed for the lower control arms to be
 horizontal, why to the upper control arms have to be modified to obtain
 correct camber with a lowered car (I assume lowered means horizontal
 lower control arms)?
   __________________________________________________________________

 From: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net<mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net>>
 To: 'Julian Kift' <julian_kift at hotmail.com<mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com>>; 'Don Thomas'
 <dtpantera at gmail.com<mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com>>; 'DeTomaso_List'
 <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
 Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 10:04 AM
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven
 shock adjustments
 This question brings up a curiosity I've had about #6328 since I first
 put
 the adjustable Alden coilovers, then the set of Konis from DQ, on the
 car.
 I wanted to set the ride height such that the car was level all around
 and
 the rear lower A arms were parallel to the ground, what I understand
 was
 Dallara's intent when he designed the suspension for the Pantera for
 optimal
 handling.  However, I could not quite get there: When I went to adjust
 the
 front coilovers, there is almost a 3/4" difference left to right to get
 the
 front of the car level side to side.  When I realized the right front
 was
 the limiting factor, I adjusted the rest to match, and had to stop
 there.
 At this setting, when measured at the rocker front and back, both
 sides,
 there is no more then 1/8" difference at any location.  This was done
 with a
 full tank of fuel, but without a driver.  The car would still have to
 drop
 another 1/2" to get the rear A arms parallel to the ground.
 Does this affect the way the car drives?  Probably not, but it became a
 curiosity when I was trying to set it up.  I did not do any other
 measurements to compare such as the distance between shock mounting
 points
 side to side, etc., and will have that checked and corrected if
 possible
 when the car goes in for restoration in a year or two.  I also know the
 car
 was hit at some point in the left rear, but don't believe that twisted
 the
 monocoque as all doors and panels align properly and the majority of
 the car
 is dead straight (some sheet metal issues where the repair was done
 that
 will need reworking).
 Thoughts?  Is this not uncommon?
 What say you?
 Thanks
 -----Original Message-----
 From: DeTomaso [mailto:[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>] On
 Behalf
 Of Julian Kift
 Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 7:56 AM
 To: Don Thomas <[2]dtpantera at gmail.com<mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com>>; DeTomaso_List
 <[3]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
 Compressed length, uncompressed length or length at normal road height
 at
 rest?
 Just about everything you could want from a chassis/suspension datum
 perspective is here at Ted Mitchell's Vader Racing site;
 [4]https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vaderacing.com%2Ftech.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C93d9b702874c4fbdf84e08d55181df97%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636504540602243885&sdata=rftDeizovhpnpRS%2BOMp9Djnlzswf0wJ8wmnMn36WTyQ%3D&reserved=0
 Julian
 ________________________________
 From: DeTomaso <[5]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf
 of Don
 Thomas <[6]dtpantera at gmail.com<mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com>>
 Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 10:48 PM
 To: DeTomaso_List
 Subject: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
 What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
 Best regards,
 -dt
 Don Thomas
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-------------- next part --------------
   Well put Mr. Mike ! All Sharon and my best to you and Lori for the
   upcoming year. Happy New Year!

   ps: spinal surgery a week from today !! Yeeee haawwww!
   Leslie A. Gray
   On Jan 1, 2018, at 5:41 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
   <[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:

   Hmm,
   Somebody (who failed to sign his post) posed a good question below.
   The answer is, the upper control arms do NOT have to be modified IF the
   chassis hasn't collapsed. With time, some cars have experienced partial
   collapse of the chassis, due to the relatively weak support provided by
   the stock fixed-length camber bar. If an adjustable length camber bar
   is used, and the chassis is forced into its original position, then the
   stock upper A-arms work perfectly.
   Adjustable or longer upper rear A-arms are normally a band-aid fix
   (which admittedly works reasonably well it seems....)
   Mike
   Sent from my iPad

     On Dec 31, 2017, at 13:28, Ken Green via DeTomaso
     <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:

      If the suspension was designed for the lower control arms to be

      horizontal, why to the upper control arms have to be modified to
     obtain

      correct camber with a lowered car (I assume lowered means
     horizontal

      lower control arms)?

        _________________________________________________________________
     _

      From: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <[3]mbefthomas at comcast.net>

      To: 'Julian Kift' <[4]julian_kift at hotmail.com>; 'Don Thomas'

      <[5]dtpantera at gmail.com>; 'DeTomaso_List'

      <[6]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>

      Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 10:04 AM

      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? -
     Uneven

      shock adjustments

      This question brings up a curiosity I've had about #6328 since I
     first

      put

      the adjustable Alden coilovers, then the set of Konis from DQ, on
     the

      car.

      I wanted to set the ride height such that the car was level all
     around

      and

      the rear lower A arms were parallel to the ground, what I
     understand

      was

      Dallara's intent when he designed the suspension for the Pantera
     for

      optimal

      handling.  However, I could not quite get there: When I went to
     adjust

      the

      front coilovers, there is almost a 3/4" difference left to right to
     get

      the

      front of the car level side to side.  When I realized the right
     front

      was

      the limiting factor, I adjusted the rest to match, and had to stop

      there.

      At this setting, when measured at the rocker front and back, both

      sides,

      there is no more then 1/8" difference at any location.  This was
     done

      with a

      full tank of fuel, but without a driver.  The car would still have
     to

      drop

      another 1/2" to get the rear A arms parallel to the ground.

      Does this affect the way the car drives?  Probably not, but it
     became a

      curiosity when I was trying to set it up.  I did not do any other

      measurements to compare such as the distance between shock mounting

      points

      side to side, etc., and will have that checked and corrected if

      possible

      when the car goes in for restoration in a year or two.  I also know
     the

      car

      was hit at some point in the left rear, but don't believe that
     twisted

      the

      monocoque as all doors and panels align properly and the majority
     of

      the car

      is dead straight (some sheet metal issues where the repair was done

      that

      will need reworking).

      Thoughts?  Is this not uncommon?

      What say you?

      Thanks

      -----Original Message-----

      From: DeTomaso
     [mailto:[1][7]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On

      Behalf

      Of Julian Kift

      Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 7:56 AM

      To: Don Thomas <[2][8]dtpantera at gmail.com>; DeTomaso_List

      <[3][9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>

      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?

      Compressed length, uncompressed length or length at normal road
     height

      at

      rest?

      Just about everything you could want from a chassis/suspension
     datum

      perspective is here at Ted Mitchell's Vader Racing site;

      [4][10]https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%
     2F%2Fwww.vaderacing.com%2Ftech.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7C93d9b702874c4fb
     df84e08d55181df97%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63650
     4540602243885&sdata=rftDeizovhpnpRS%2BOMp9Djnlzswf0wJ8wmnMn36WTyQ%3D
     &reserved=0

      Julian

      ________________________________

      From: DeTomaso <[5][11]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
     behalf

      of Don

      Thomas <[6][12]dtpantera at gmail.com>

      Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 10:48 PM

      To: DeTomaso_List

      Subject: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?

      What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?

      Best regards,

      -dt

      Don Thomas

      _______________________________________________

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