[DeTomaso] Possibly another scam

Jeff Cobb jeffcobb1 at me.com
Mon Jan 1 20:50:06 EST 2018


He was and most likely is a bastard from Canada. 
Some large city on the south west not far from the border.
Jeff
On Jan 1, 2018, at 7:17 PM, bill <bill at incendium.com> wrote:

> Jeff:
> Was it a CANADIAN bastard, or a bastard...........?
> 
> Just asking.....
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Bill Moore
> Calgary
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1 at me.com>
> Date: 2018-01-01 5:23 PM (GMT-07:00)
> To: Jack Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com>
> Cc: POCA <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Possibly another scam
> 
> Thanks for warning people, Jack. 
> I had a Canadian bastard 20 years ago gave a $11,000 cashiers check for fixing his Jag then drove off back to the S W part of Canada and a week or more later my bank said the customer told the issuing bank that I defrauded him, car was not fixed, Ihad lied and cheated him, it was not drivable and that he was going to sue me. 
> So the bank stopped payment on the cashiers check! 
> 
> Why, you must be thinking now ( not possible to stop payment on a cashiers check )- - HELLO YOU CAN, well they issued it with good money on good faith, so they can stop it if bad faith appears to take their customers good money.  
> ALL WAS NOT TRUE AND THIS BASTARD was able to save $11,000 and never did we hear from each other ever. 
> He disappeared as the fixed car and my money did.
> 
> Tomorrow is an IOU, yesterday is a cancelled check and TODAY IS CASH!
> 
> In GOD we trust, all others must pay cash!
> 
> Tricksters are smoother, quicker and cooler than you can ever be.
> 
> Jeff Cobb
> 
> On Aug 8, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Jack Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >   Thank you for the education - but - I am too old school for such a
> >   scam. Over the years, I've found that trading the pink slip & keys for
> >   cash is the only way to do business with vehicles - it's always worked
> >   fine. Seems anything else just opens one up for being screwed. Gary
> >   Hall's wisdom.
> > 
> >   Just sayin'
> > 
> >   Jack
> > 
> >   #4348
> > 
> >   On Aug 7, 2017, at 3:35 PM, [1]audionut at hushmail.com wrote:
> > 
> >   - what would the scam be?
> >   Hi Jack--  Allow me to offer up one scam that I've become familiar
> >   with.
> > 
> >   "Buyer" is a very nice, knowledgeable "gentleman" who lives far away
> >   (usually an upscale neighborhood), charms you with his car stories and
> >   how much he loves your car.  Once you agree to sell, he quickly sends
> >   an actual cash deposit straight to your account via Paypal, thus
> >   suckering you in.  His final payment comes as a cashier's check which
> >   immediately clears the bank, fooling you into surrendering the car to
> >   the trucker who quickly shows up and loads the car into a semi or other
> >   such transportation.  The check fools the bank for about a month, then
> >   bounces, leaving you with a payment of however much the Paypal
> >   "deposit" was for, which is soon refunded back to the buyer by Paypal
> >   when he claims that you never delivered the car.
> > 
> >   Paypal terms stipulate that the buyer's word is enough to justify the
> >   "refund due to cancelation of transaction".  Scammer has paid minimal
> >   Paypal fees, you have no car and no money and you now must also pay
> >   Paypal "refund" fees for "canceling the transaction".
> > 
> >   Entire scam duration, 1 - 2 months.
> >   Or, variations on same.  The basis upon which this scam works is the
> >   common bank practice of "holding deposit funds for clearance", usually
> >   10 days or more, whenever a deposit is over $10k or so.  The bank tells
> >   you that this is done for your protection, but what is actually
> >   happening is that the bank takes your big check and lumps it in with
> >   thousands of other peoples' big checks which collectively amount to
> >   millions of dollars, puts them all in an interest-bearing account
> >   overseas and makes a tidy interest sum while everyones' money is being
> >   "temporarily held inaccessible for your protection".  After the "hold
> >   period" which is typically as long as the customers will bear, they
> >   transfer your deposit (release the "hold") to your account IF your
> >   check cleared the foreign bank.  Since the whole process takes weeks or
> >   more for the fraud to be noticed, the scammer succeeds.  The bank risks
> >   nothing by lying to you and telling you that the scammers' fake check
> >   has cleared.
> > 
> >   ___________________________________________________________
> >   While on the subject of scams--  Here's a doozy:
> > 
> >   Bankers are extremely cunning, elegant criminals whose racket is
> >   parasitic in nature, yet, they know how to operate so as to not kill
> >   their "host".  None of their "policies" benefit anyone but themselves.
> >    Customers bear all banking risks at all times.  They are experts at
> >   squeezing productive peoples as far as they can without draining them
> >   dry.  Every once in a while they screw it up and suck too much blood
> >   out of sheer greed and this descends upon the people as "economic
> >   downturns", recessions, depressions, "bursting market bubbles", "too
> >   big to fail bailouts" etc. etc.  These "explanations" are expertly
> >   crafted bullshit stories designed to fool us into believing these
> >   things are "natural economic events" that "just happen".  We are led to
> >   believe that the economy is something far too complex for just anyone
> >   to comprehend.  This is a lie.  The simple marketplace, buying and
> >   selling, has been mis-labeled as a complex "financial system" involving
> >   all manner of taxation intricacies and infinite financial product
> >   variables which require high degrees of intelligence to understand.  In
> >   order to perpetuate this lie, volumes of legal nonsense has been
> >   introduced over time to obfuscate and disguise the fraudulent means by
> >   which parasitic control is exerted over the marketplace whereby wealth
> >   is siphoned out the hands of productive peoples and into the hands of
> >   banks.
> > 
> >   There is no question that the banking/credit scam works brilliantly.
> >   When the bankers get too rich then they start wars, which serve a
> >   3-fold purpose:   1)  to deplete excess wealth, 2) to facilitate the
> >   geopolitical goals of the bankers which further consolidate their
> >   powers, and 3)  weaken populations and keep people in states of
> >   distress which makes them far easier to deceive and control.
> > 
> >   Money is never "lent", it is created from nothing (credit) through
> >   government-approved legislation (so-called "will of the people") which
> >   amounts to nothing other than legally sanctioned counterfeiting.
> > 
> >   The Golden Rule being, "he who has the gold, makes the rules".
> > 
> >   We never figure it out, and on and on and on it goes.
> > 
> >   Modern banking IS a scam in itself, so it is no small wonder that
> >   scammers exist in multitudes and that bankers could care less about
> >   tracking them down and prosecuting them.  Apprehending and prosecuting
> >   scammers is left to law enforcement agencies who generally have limited
> >   resources and greater priorities than catching these petty crooks who
> >   generally do not cause permanent or grievous harm.
> > 
> >   So what we have is an economic environment, enhanced greatly since the
> >   internet started, that is perfectly suited for scammers to thrive and
> >   multiply.
> >   Sent using Hushmail
> >   On August 7, 2017 at 9:59 AM, "Jack Donahue" <[2]demongusta at gmail.com>
> >   wrote:
> > 
> >     Got it too. Just curious, since I'm not familiar with "scammers" -
> >     what would the scam be?
> >> On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:39 AM, Bobbykart <[3]bobbykart at gmail.com>
> >     wrote:
> >> 
> >> I got it also, so many internet scams out there
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >> 
> >>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:22 AM, Dave McManus
> >     <[4]Dave at damardirect.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> I think it is a scam. Very weird. I got it also.
> >>> IndyDave
> >>> 
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. [[5]mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com]
> >>> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017 11:46 AM
> >>> To: [6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Possibly another scam
> >>> 
> >>> Possibly another scam.
> >>> 
> >>> Got weird email wanting to buy DeTomaso's Googling the email
> >     address gets hits from other car forums over the years with similar
> >     out of the blue.
> >>> 
> >>> " Hello, I apologize for my email! Bob (here in copy) referred me
> >     to You....." from Tim McDowall And Bob being mbz190slmember
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>> [7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> [8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>> 
> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> >     etc.) use the links above.
> >>> 
> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> >     forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
> >     members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
> >     maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> [9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >> 
> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> >     etc.) use the links above.
> >> 
> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> >     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> >     the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> >     archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> >     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >     DeTomaso mailing list
> >     [11]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >     [12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> >     etc.) use the links above.
> >     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> >     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> >     the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> >     archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > 
> > References
> > 
> >   1. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
> >   2. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
> >   3. mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
> >   4. mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
> >   5. mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
> >   6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >   7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >   8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >   9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >  10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >  11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >  12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > _______________________________________________
> > 
> > 
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> > 
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> 
> 
>    Thanks for warning people, Jack.
> 
>    I had a Canadian bastard 20 years ago gave a $11,000 cashiers check for
>    fixing his Jag then drove off back to the S W part of Canada and a week
>    or more later my bank said the customer told the issuing bank that I
>    defrauded him, car was not fixed, Ihad lied and cheated him, it was not
>    drivable and that he was going to sue me.
> 
>    So the bank stopped payment on the cashiers check!
> 
>    Why, you must be thinking now ( not possible to stop payment on a
>    cashiers check )- - HELLO YOU CAN, well they issued it with good money
>    on good faith, so they can stop it if bad faith appears to take their
>    customers good money.
> 
>    ALL WAS NOT TRUE AND THIS BASTARD was able to save $11,000 and never
>    did we hear from each other ever.
> 
>    He disappeared as the fixed car and my money did.
> 
>    Tomorrow is an IOU, yesterday is a cancelled check and TODAY IS CASH!
> 
>    In GOD we trust, all others must pay cash!
> 
>    Tricksters are smoother, quicker and cooler than you can ever be.
> 
>    Jeff Cobb
> 
>    On Aug 8, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Jack Donahue <[1]demongusta at gmail.com>
>    wrote:
> 
>        Thank you for the education - but - I am too old school for such a
>        scam. Over the years, I've found that trading the pink slip & keys
>      for
>        cash is the only way to do business with vehicles - it's always
>      worked
>        fine. Seems anything else just opens one up for being screwed.
>      Gary
>        Hall's wisdom.
>        Just sayin'
>        Jack
>        #4348
>        On Aug 7, 2017, at 3:35 PM, [1][2]audionut at hushmail.com wrote:
>        - what would the scam be?
>        Hi Jack--  Allow me to offer up one scam that I've become familiar
>        with.
>        "Buyer" is a very nice, knowledgeable "gentleman" who lives far
>      away
>        (usually an upscale neighborhood), charms you with his car stories
>      and
>        how much he loves your car.  Once you agree to sell, he quickly
>      sends
>        an actual cash deposit straight to your account via Paypal, thus
>        suckering you in.  His final payment comes as a cashier's check
>      which
>        immediately clears the bank, fooling you into surrendering the car
>      to
>        the trucker who quickly shows up and loads the car into a semi or
>      other
>        such transportation.  The check fools the bank for about a month,
>      then
>        bounces, leaving you with a payment of however much the Paypal
>        "deposit" was for, which is soon refunded back to the buyer by
>      Paypal
>        when he claims that you never delivered the car.
>        Paypal terms stipulate that the buyer's word is enough to justify
>      the
>        "refund due to cancelation of transaction".  Scammer has paid
>      minimal
>        Paypal fees, you have no car and no money and you now must also
>      pay
>        Paypal "refund" fees for "canceling the transaction".
>        Entire scam duration, 1 - 2 months.
>        Or, variations on same.  The basis upon which this scam works is
>      the
>        common bank practice of "holding deposit funds for clearance",
>      usually
>        10 days or more, whenever a deposit is over $10k or so.  The bank
>      tells
>        you that this is done for your protection, but what is actually
>        happening is that the bank takes your big check and lumps it in
>      with
>        thousands of other peoples' big checks which collectively amount
>      to
>        millions of dollars, puts them all in an interest-bearing account
>        overseas and makes a tidy interest sum while everyones' money is
>      being
>        "temporarily held inaccessible for your protection".  After the
>      "hold
>        period" which is typically as long as the customers will bear,
>      they
>        transfer your deposit (release the "hold") to your account IF your
>        check cleared the foreign bank.  Since the whole process takes
>      weeks or
>        more for the fraud to be noticed, the scammer succeeds.  The bank
>      risks
>        nothing by lying to you and telling you that the scammers' fake
>      check
>        has cleared.
>        ___________________________________________________________
>        While on the subject of scams--  Here's a doozy:
>        Bankers are extremely cunning, elegant criminals whose racket is
>        parasitic in nature, yet, they know how to operate so as to not
>      kill
>        their "host".  None of their "policies" benefit anyone but
>      themselves.
>         Customers bear all banking risks at all times.  They are experts
>      at
>        squeezing productive peoples as far as they can without draining
>      them
>        dry.  Every once in a while they screw it up and suck too much
>      blood
>        out of sheer greed and this descends upon the people as "economic
>        downturns", recessions, depressions, "bursting market bubbles",
>      "too
>        big to fail bailouts" etc. etc.  These "explanations" are expertly
>        crafted bullshit stories designed to fool us into believing these
>        things are "natural economic events" that "just happen".  We are
>      led to
>        believe that the economy is something far too complex for just
>      anyone
>        to comprehend.  This is a lie.  The simple marketplace, buying and
>        selling, has been mis-labeled as a complex "financial system"
>      involving
>        all manner of taxation intricacies and infinite financial product
>        variables which require high degrees of intelligence to
>      understand.  In
>        order to perpetuate this lie, volumes of legal nonsense has been
>        introduced over time to obfuscate and disguise the fraudulent
>      means by
>        which parasitic control is exerted over the marketplace whereby
>      wealth
>        is siphoned out the hands of productive peoples and into the hands
>      of
>        banks.
>        There is no question that the banking/credit scam works
>      brilliantly.
>        When the bankers get too rich then they start wars, which serve a
>        3-fold purpose:   1)  to deplete excess wealth, 2) to facilitate
>      the
>        geopolitical goals of the bankers which further consolidate their
>        powers, and 3)  weaken populations and keep people in states of
>        distress which makes them far easier to deceive and control.
>        Money is never "lent", it is created from nothing (credit) through
>        government-approved legislation (so-called "will of the people")
>      which
>        amounts to nothing other than legally sanctioned counterfeiting.
>        The Golden Rule being, "he who has the gold, makes the rules".
>        We never figure it out, and on and on and on it goes.
>        Modern banking IS a scam in itself, so it is no small wonder that
>        scammers exist in multitudes and that bankers could care less
>      about
>        tracking them down and prosecuting them.  Apprehending and
>      prosecuting
>        scammers is left to law enforcement agencies who generally have
>      limited
>        resources and greater priorities than catching these petty crooks
>      who
>        generally do not cause permanent or grievous harm.
>        So what we have is an economic environment, enhanced greatly since
>      the
>        internet started, that is perfectly suited for scammers to thrive
>      and
>        multiply.
>        Sent using Hushmail
>        On August 7, 2017 at 9:59 AM, "Jack Donahue"
>      <[2][3]demongusta at gmail.com>
>        wrote:
>          Got it too. Just curious, since I'm not familiar with "scammers"
>      -
>          what would the scam be?
> 
>      On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:39 AM, Bobbykart <[3][4]bobbykart at gmail.com>
> 
>          wrote:
> 
>      I got it also, so many internet scams out there
>      Sent from my iPad
> 
>      On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:22 AM, Dave McManus
> 
>          <[4][5]Dave at damardirect.com> wrote:
> 
>      I think it is a scam. Very weird. I got it also.
>      IndyDave
>      -----Original Message-----
>      From: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. [[5][6]mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com]
>      Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017 11:46 AM
>      To: [6][7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>      Subject: [DeTomaso] Possibly another scam
>      Possibly another scam.
>      Got weird email wanting to buy DeTomaso's Googling the email
> 
>          address gets hits from other car forums over the years with
>      similar
>          out of the blue.
> 
>      " Hello, I apologize for my email! Bob (here in copy) referred me
> 
>          to You....." from Tim McDowall And Bob being mbz190slmember
> 
>      _______________________________________________
>      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>      DeTomaso mailing list
>      [7][8]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>      [8][9]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>      To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> 
>          etc.) use the links above.
> 
>      Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> 
>          forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
>          members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission
>      to
>          maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> 
>      _______________________________________________
>      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>      DeTomaso mailing list
>      [9][10]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>      [10][11]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>      To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> 
>          etc.) use the links above.
> 
>      Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> 
>          any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
>      of
>          the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain
>      an
>          archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>          _______________________________________________
>          Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>          Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>          DeTomaso mailing list
>          [11][12]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>          [12][13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>          To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>          etc.) use the links above.
>          Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
>      forward
>          any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
>      of
>          the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain
>      an
>          archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>      References
>        1. [14]mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
>        2. [15]mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
>        3. [16]mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
>        4. [17]mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
>        5. [18]mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
>        6. [19]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>        7. [20]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>        8. [21]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>        9. [22]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>       10. [23]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>       11. [24]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>       12. [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>      _______________________________________________
>      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>      DeTomaso mailing list
>      [26]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>      http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>      To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>      etc.) use the links above.
>      Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>      any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
>      the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
>      archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> 
> References
> 
>    1. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
>    2. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
>    3. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
>    4. mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
>    5. mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
>    6. mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
>    7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    8. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    9. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   10. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   14. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
>   15. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
>   16. mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
>   17. mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
>   18. mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
>   19. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>   26. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> 
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

-------------- next part --------------
   He was and most likely is a bastard from Canada.

   Some large city on the south west not far from the border.
   Jeff
   On Jan 1, 2018, at 7:17 PM, bill <[1]bill at incendium.com> wrote:

   Jeff:
   Was it a CANADIAN bastard, or a bastard...........?
   Just asking.....
   Cheers
   Bill Moore
   Calgary
   -------- Original message --------
   From: Jeff Cobb <[2]jeffcobb1 at me.com>
   Date: 2018-01-01 5:23 PM (GMT-07:00)
   To: Jack Donahue <[3]demongusta at gmail.com>
   Cc: POCA <[4]detomaso at detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Possibly another scam
   Thanks for warning people, Jack.
   I had a Canadian bastard 20 years ago gave a $11,000 cashiers check for
   fixing his Jag then drove off back to the S W part of Canada and a week
   or more later my bank said the customer told the issuing bank that I
   defrauded him, car was not fixed, Ihad lied and cheated him, it was not
   drivable and that he was going to sue me.
   So the bank stopped payment on the cashiers check!
   Why, you must be thinking now ( not possible to stop payment on a
   cashiers check )- - HELLO YOU CAN, well they issued it with good money
   on good faith, so they can stop it if bad faith appears to take their
   customers good money.
   ALL WAS NOT TRUE AND THIS BASTARD was able to save $11,000 and never
   did we hear from each other ever.
   He disappeared as the fixed car and my money did.
   Tomorrow is an IOU, yesterday is a cancelled check and TODAY IS CASH!
   In GOD we trust, all others must pay cash!
   Tricksters are smoother, quicker and cooler than you can ever be.
   Jeff Cobb
   On Aug 8, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Jack Donahue <[5]demongusta at gmail.com>
   wrote:
   >   Thank you for the education - but - I am too old school for such a
   >   scam. Over the years, I've found that trading the pink slip & keys
   for
   >   cash is the only way to do business with vehicles - it's always
   worked
   >   fine. Seems anything else just opens one up for being screwed. Gary
   >   Hall's wisdom.
   >
   >   Just sayin'
   >
   >   Jack
   >
   >   #4348
   >
   >   On Aug 7, 2017, at 3:35 PM, [1][6]audionut at hushmail.com wrote:
   >
   >   - what would the scam be?
   >   Hi Jack--  Allow me to offer up one scam that I've become familiar
   >   with.
   >
   >   "Buyer" is a very nice, knowledgeable "gentleman" who lives far
   away
   >   (usually an upscale neighborhood), charms you with his car stories
   and
   >   how much he loves your car.  Once you agree to sell, he quickly
   sends
   >   an actual cash deposit straight to your account via Paypal, thus
   >   suckering you in.  His final payment comes as a cashier's check
   which
   >   immediately clears the bank, fooling you into surrendering the car
   to
   >   the trucker who quickly shows up and loads the car into a semi or
   other
   >   such transportation.  The check fools the bank for about a month,
   then
   >   bounces, leaving you with a payment of however much the Paypal
   >   "deposit" was for, which is soon refunded back to the buyer by
   Paypal
   >   when he claims that you never delivered the car.
   >
   >   Paypal terms stipulate that the buyer's word is enough to justify
   the
   >   "refund due to cancelation of transaction".  Scammer has paid
   minimal
   >   Paypal fees, you have no car and no money and you now must also pay
   >   Paypal "refund" fees for "canceling the transaction".
   >
   >   Entire scam duration, 1 - 2 months.
   >   Or, variations on same.  The basis upon which this scam works is
   the
   >   common bank practice of "holding deposit funds for clearance",
   usually
   >   10 days or more, whenever a deposit is over $10k or so.  The bank
   tells
   >   you that this is done for your protection, but what is actually
   >   happening is that the bank takes your big check and lumps it in
   with
   >   thousands of other peoples' big checks which collectively amount to
   >   millions of dollars, puts them all in an interest-bearing account
   >   overseas and makes a tidy interest sum while everyones' money is
   being
   >   "temporarily held inaccessible for your protection".  After the
   "hold
   >   period" which is typically as long as the customers will bear, they
   >   transfer your deposit (release the "hold") to your account IF your
   >   check cleared the foreign bank.  Since the whole process takes
   weeks or
   >   more for the fraud to be noticed, the scammer succeeds.  The bank
   risks
   >   nothing by lying to you and telling you that the scammers' fake
   check
   >   has cleared.
   >
   >   ___________________________________________________________
   >   While on the subject of scams--  Here's a doozy:
   >
   >   Bankers are extremely cunning, elegant criminals whose racket is
   >   parasitic in nature, yet, they know how to operate so as to not
   kill
   >   their "host".  None of their "policies" benefit anyone but
   themselves.
   >    Customers bear all banking risks at all times.  They are experts
   at
   >   squeezing productive peoples as far as they can without draining
   them
   >   dry.  Every once in a while they screw it up and suck too much
   blood
   >   out of sheer greed and this descends upon the people as "economic
   >   downturns", recessions, depressions, "bursting market bubbles",
   "too
   >   big to fail bailouts" etc. etc.  These "explanations" are expertly
   >   crafted bullshit stories designed to fool us into believing these
   >   things are "natural economic events" that "just happen".  We are
   led to
   >   believe that the economy is something far too complex for just
   anyone
   >   to comprehend.  This is a lie.  The simple marketplace, buying and
   >   selling, has been mis-labeled as a complex "financial system"
   involving
   >   all manner of taxation intricacies and infinite financial product
   >   variables which require high degrees of intelligence to
   understand.  In
   >   order to perpetuate this lie, volumes of legal nonsense has been
   >   introduced over time to obfuscate and disguise the fraudulent means
   by
   >   which parasitic control is exerted over the marketplace whereby
   wealth
   >   is siphoned out the hands of productive peoples and into the hands
   of
   >   banks.
   >
   >   There is no question that the banking/credit scam works
   brilliantly.
   >   When the bankers get too rich then they start wars, which serve a
   >   3-fold purpose:   1)  to deplete excess wealth, 2) to facilitate
   the
   >   geopolitical goals of the bankers which further consolidate their
   >   powers, and 3)  weaken populations and keep people in states of
   >   distress which makes them far easier to deceive and control.
   >
   >   Money is never "lent", it is created from nothing (credit) through
   >   government-approved legislation (so-called "will of the people")
   which
   >   amounts to nothing other than legally sanctioned counterfeiting.
   >
   >   The Golden Rule being, "he who has the gold, makes the rules".
   >
   >   We never figure it out, and on and on and on it goes.
   >
   >   Modern banking IS a scam in itself, so it is no small wonder that
   >   scammers exist in multitudes and that bankers could care less about
   >   tracking them down and prosecuting them.  Apprehending and
   prosecuting
   >   scammers is left to law enforcement agencies who generally have
   limited
   >   resources and greater priorities than catching these petty crooks
   who
   >   generally do not cause permanent or grievous harm.
   >
   >   So what we have is an economic environment, enhanced greatly since
   the
   >   internet started, that is perfectly suited for scammers to thrive
   and
   >   multiply.
   >   Sent using Hushmail
   >   On August 7, 2017 at 9:59 AM, "Jack Donahue"
   <[2][7]demongusta at gmail.com>
   >   wrote:
   >
   >     Got it too. Just curious, since I'm not familiar with "scammers"
   -
   >     what would the scam be?
   >> On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:39 AM, Bobbykart <[3][8]bobbykart at gmail.com>
   >     wrote:
   >>
   >> I got it also, so many internet scams out there
   >>
   >> Sent from my iPad
   >>
   >>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:22 AM, Dave McManus
   >     <[4][9]Dave at damardirect.com> wrote:
   >>>
   >>> I think it is a scam. Very weird. I got it also.
   >>> IndyDave
   >>>
   >>> -----Original Message-----
   >>> From: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. [[5][10]mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com]
   >>> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017 11:46 AM
   >>> To: [6][11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Possibly another scam
   >>>
   >>> Possibly another scam.
   >>>
   >>> Got weird email wanting to buy DeTomaso's Googling the email
   >     address gets hits from other car forums over the years with
   similar
   >     out of the blue.
   >>>
   >>> " Hello, I apologize for my email! Bob (here in copy) referred me
   >     to You....." from Tim McDowall And Bob being mbz190slmember
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> _______________________________________________
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >>> DeTomaso mailing list
   >>> [7][12]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >>> [8][13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >>>
   >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   >     etc.) use the links above.
   >>>
   >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
   >     forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future
   >     members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
   >     maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
   >> _______________________________________________
   >>
   >>
   >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >> DeTomaso mailing list
   >> [9][14]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >> [10][15]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >>
   >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   >     etc.) use the links above.
   >>
   >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   >     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
   of
   >     the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain
   an
   >     archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
   >     _______________________________________________
   >     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   >     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >     DeTomaso mailing list
   >     [11][16]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >     [12][17]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   >     etc.) use the links above.
   >     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
   forward
   >     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
   of
   >     the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain
   an
   >     archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
   >
   > References
   >
   >   1. [18]mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
   >   2. [19]mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
   >   3. [20]mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
   >   4. [21]mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
   >   5. [22]mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
   >   6. [23]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >   7. [24]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >   8. [25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >   9. [26]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >  10. [27]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >  11. [28]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >  12. [29]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   >
   > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > [30]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   > [31]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >
   > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   >
   > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.
      Thanks for warning people, Jack.
      I had a Canadian bastard 20 years ago gave a $11,000 cashiers check
   for
      fixing his Jag then drove off back to the S W part of Canada and a
   week
      or more later my bank said the customer told the issuing bank that I
      defrauded him, car was not fixed, Ihad lied and cheated him, it was
   not
      drivable and that he was going to sue me.
      So the bank stopped payment on the cashiers check!
      Why, you must be thinking now ( not possible to stop payment on a
      cashiers check )- - HELLO YOU CAN, well they issued it with good
   money
      on good faith, so they can stop it if bad faith appears to take
   their
      customers good money.
      ALL WAS NOT TRUE AND THIS BASTARD was able to save $11,000 and never
      did we hear from each other ever.
      He disappeared as the fixed car and my money did.
      Tomorrow is an IOU, yesterday is a cancelled check and TODAY IS
   CASH!
      In GOD we trust, all others must pay cash!
      Tricksters are smoother, quicker and cooler than you can ever be.
      Jeff Cobb
      On Aug 8, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Jack Donahue
   <[1][32]demongusta at gmail.com>
      wrote:
          Thank you for the education - but - I am too old school for such
   a
          scam. Over the years, I've found that trading the pink slip &
   keys
        for
          cash is the only way to do business with vehicles - it's always
        worked
          fine. Seems anything else just opens one up for being screwed.
        Gary
          Hall's wisdom.
          Just sayin'
          Jack
          #4348
          On Aug 7, 2017, at 3:35 PM, [1][2][33]audionut at hushmail.com
   wrote:
          - what would the scam be?
          Hi Jack--  Allow me to offer up one scam that I've become
   familiar
          with.
          "Buyer" is a very nice, knowledgeable "gentleman" who lives far
        away
          (usually an upscale neighborhood), charms you with his car
   stories
        and
          how much he loves your car.  Once you agree to sell, he quickly
        sends
          an actual cash deposit straight to your account via Paypal, thus
          suckering you in.  His final payment comes as a cashier's check
        which
          immediately clears the bank, fooling you into surrendering the
   car
        to
          the trucker who quickly shows up and loads the car into a semi
   or
        other
          such transportation.  The check fools the bank for about a
   month,
        then
          bounces, leaving you with a payment of however much the Paypal
          "deposit" was for, which is soon refunded back to the buyer by
        Paypal
          when he claims that you never delivered the car.
          Paypal terms stipulate that the buyer's word is enough to
   justify
        the
          "refund due to cancelation of transaction".  Scammer has paid
        minimal
          Paypal fees, you have no car and no money and you now must also
        pay
          Paypal "refund" fees for "canceling the transaction".
          Entire scam duration, 1 - 2 months.
          Or, variations on same.  The basis upon which this scam works is
        the
          common bank practice of "holding deposit funds for clearance",
        usually
          10 days or more, whenever a deposit is over $10k or so.  The
   bank
        tells
          you that this is done for your protection, but what is actually
          happening is that the bank takes your big check and lumps it in
        with
          thousands of other peoples' big checks which collectively amount
        to
          millions of dollars, puts them all in an interest-bearing
   account
          overseas and makes a tidy interest sum while everyones' money is
        being
          "temporarily held inaccessible for your protection".  After the
        "hold
          period" which is typically as long as the customers will bear,
        they
          transfer your deposit (release the "hold") to your account IF
   your
          check cleared the foreign bank.  Since the whole process takes
        weeks or
          more for the fraud to be noticed, the scammer succeeds.  The
   bank
        risks
          nothing by lying to you and telling you that the scammers' fake
        check
          has cleared.
          ___________________________________________________________
          While on the subject of scams--  Here's a doozy:
          Bankers are extremely cunning, elegant criminals whose racket is
          parasitic in nature, yet, they know how to operate so as to not
        kill
          their "host".  None of their "policies" benefit anyone but
        themselves.
           Customers bear all banking risks at all times.  They are
   experts
        at
          squeezing productive peoples as far as they can without draining
        them
          dry.  Every once in a while they screw it up and suck too much
        blood
          out of sheer greed and this descends upon the people as
   "economic
          downturns", recessions, depressions, "bursting market bubbles",
        "too
          big to fail bailouts" etc. etc.  These "explanations" are
   expertly
          crafted bullshit stories designed to fool us into believing
   these
          things are "natural economic events" that "just happen".  We are
        led to
          believe that the economy is something far too complex for just
        anyone
          to comprehend.  This is a lie.  The simple marketplace, buying
   and
          selling, has been mis-labeled as a complex "financial system"
        involving
          all manner of taxation intricacies and infinite financial
   product
          variables which require high degrees of intelligence to
        understand.  In
          order to perpetuate this lie, volumes of legal nonsense has been
          introduced over time to obfuscate and disguise the fraudulent
        means by
          which parasitic control is exerted over the marketplace whereby
        wealth
          is siphoned out the hands of productive peoples and into the
   hands
        of
          banks.
          There is no question that the banking/credit scam works
        brilliantly.
          When the bankers get too rich then they start wars, which serve
   a
          3-fold purpose:   1)  to deplete excess wealth, 2) to facilitate
        the
          geopolitical goals of the bankers which further consolidate
   their
          powers, and 3)  weaken populations and keep people in states of
          distress which makes them far easier to deceive and control.
          Money is never "lent", it is created from nothing (credit)
   through
          government-approved legislation (so-called "will of the people")
        which
          amounts to nothing other than legally sanctioned counterfeiting.
          The Golden Rule being, "he who has the gold, makes the rules".
          We never figure it out, and on and on and on it goes.
          Modern banking IS a scam in itself, so it is no small wonder
   that
          scammers exist in multitudes and that bankers could care less
        about
          tracking them down and prosecuting them.  Apprehending and
        prosecuting
          scammers is left to law enforcement agencies who generally have
        limited
          resources and greater priorities than catching these petty
   crooks
        who
          generally do not cause permanent or grievous harm.
          So what we have is an economic environment, enhanced greatly
   since
        the
          internet started, that is perfectly suited for scammers to
   thrive
        and
          multiply.
          Sent using Hushmail
          On August 7, 2017 at 9:59 AM, "Jack Donahue"
        <[2][3][34]demongusta at gmail.com>
          wrote:
            Got it too. Just curious, since I'm not familiar with
   "scammers"
        -
            what would the scam be?
        On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:39 AM, Bobbykart
   <[3][4][35]bobbykart at gmail.com>
            wrote:
        I got it also, so many internet scams out there
        Sent from my iPad
        On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:22 AM, Dave McManus
            <[4][5][36]Dave at damardirect.com> wrote:
        I think it is a scam. Very weird. I got it also.
        IndyDave
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. [[5][6][37]mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com]
        Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017 11:46 AM
        To: [6][7][38]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
        Subject: [DeTomaso] Possibly another scam
        Possibly another scam.
        Got weird email wanting to buy DeTomaso's Googling the email
            address gets hits from other car forums over the years with
        similar
            out of the blue.
        " Hello, I apologize for my email! Bob (here in copy) referred me
            to You....." from Tim McDowall And Bob being mbz190slmember
        _______________________________________________
        Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
        Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
        DeTomaso mailing list
        [7][8][39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
        [8][9][40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
        To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
            etc.) use the links above.
        Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
            forward any message posted here to all past, current, or
   future
            members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission
        to
            maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
        _______________________________________________
        Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
        Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
        DeTomaso mailing list
        [9][10][41]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com

   [10][11][42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
        To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
            etc.) use the links above.
        Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
            any message posted here to all past, current, or future
   members
        of
            the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
   maintain
        an
            archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
            _______________________________________________
            Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
            Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
            DeTomaso mailing list
            [11][12][43]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com

   [12][13][44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
            To manage your subscription (change email address,
   unsubscribe,
            etc.) use the links above.
            Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
        forward
            any message posted here to all past, current, or future
   members
        of
            the list. They also grant the list owner permission to
   maintain
        an
            archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
        References
          1. [14][45]mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
          2. [15][46]mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
          3. [16][47]mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
          4. [17][48]mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
          5. [18][49]mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
          6. [19][50]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          7. [20][51]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          8.
   [21][52]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
          9. [22][53]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         10.
   [23][54]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
         11. [24][55]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
         12.
   [25][56]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
        _______________________________________________
        Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
        Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
        DeTomaso mailing list
        [26][57]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
        [58]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
        To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
        etc.) use the links above.
        Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
        any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
        the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
        archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
   References
      1. [59]mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
      2. [60]mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
      3. [61]mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
      4. [62]mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
      5. [63]mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
      6. [64]mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
      7. [65]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
      8. [66]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
      9. [67]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     10. [68]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     11. [69]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     12. [70]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     13. [71]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     14. [72]mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
     15. [73]mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
     16. [74]mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
     17. [75]mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
     18. [76]mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
     19. [77]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     20. [78]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     21. [79]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     22. [80]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     23. [81]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     24. [82]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     25. [83]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     26. [84]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [85]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
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References

   1. mailto:bill at incendium.com
   2. mailto:jeffcobb1 at me.com
   3. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
   4. mailto:detomaso at detomasolist.com
   5. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
   6. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
   7. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
   8. mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
   9. mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
  10. mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
  11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  14. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  15. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  16. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  18. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
  19. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
  20. mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
  21. mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
  22. mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
  23. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  26. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  28. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  29. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  30. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  31. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  32. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
  33. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
  34. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
  35. mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
  36. mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
  37. mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
  38. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  41. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  43. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  45. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
  46. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
  47. mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
  48. mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
  49. mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
  50. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  51. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  52. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  53. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  54. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  55. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  56. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  57. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  58. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  59. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
  60. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
  61. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
  62. mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
  63. mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
  64. mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
  65. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  66. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  67. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  68. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  69. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  70. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  71. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  72. mailto:audionut at hushmail.com
  73. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
  74. mailto:bobbykart at gmail.com
  75. mailto:Dave at damardirect.com
  76. mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
  77. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  78. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  79. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  80. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  81. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  82. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  83. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  84. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  85. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com


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