[DeTomaso] Marti report question followup
Ed Pike
erjpike at gmail.com
Wed Feb 28 08:09:45 EST 2018
Here is what I remember about how Ford handled all their executive cars back in the 70’s. The executives got cars as part of their compensation package. Other Ford employees got a car to use for company business. I can barely remember at least one Ford rep showing up at my dad’s dealership driving a Pantera. As to which cars they got, some could choose others had limited choices usually driven by what Ford had a lot of or what they wanted to get out into the market. There was a time limit on how long they could be kept. Usually it was less than a year. If the mileage was too high the executive/ employee got “talked to” about the mileage and encouraged to change cars sooner. Not all employees got a car it was based on your job description. These cars were returned to Ford and sold usually thru a Ford auction direct to a Ford or Lincoln Mercury dealer. No other brand dealers were able to participate. These cars were sold as used cars. Mostly to keep them out of future incentive programs Ford might place on a new car. They were also counted as “sold” when they were first driven by the executive. When you read about how many cars Ford or GM sold last month it included these cars in those numbers.
Executives had first option to buy the car they were driving once they turned it back in. It is possible that people who elected to do this bought the car direct from Ford. Not many executives bought their car. This might explain why some Pantera’s don’t show a dealer. Most will. Some executives / employees could also “lease” additional cars for their family at a discounted rate from Ford as a perk. Not everyone did this either.
You should remember that we are talking about the late 60’s and early 70’s and there was some slop in this procedure. Things could get manipulated back then, probably one of the reasons that records from this time for Pantera’s are hit or miss. I am also sure that State laws across the country with respect to vehicles varied quite a bit so again things might be a little different state to state. All these executive cars were administered by the local regional offices and not just out of Detroit. The above is a brief description of how Ford handled all their cars not just Panteras but included Panteras
Hope this helps,
Ed…
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Jim Kosloskey
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 12:17 AM
To: 'Matt'; 'DeTomaso Mail List'
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Marti report question followup
I went to High School with the son of the then Exec VP of North American Operations at Fomoco.
He got a new car each year - mileage was not a factor.
He also got I think 2 more vehicles for his family. Those were changed every 2 years as I recall. I don't recall ever hearing about a mileage factor there either - but there could have been one.
His car went into service to be checked, cleaned, etc. every day he went to work. Naturally his cars always performed flawlessly. No wonder American Auto execs of the period did not understand the average owners frustration with the construction and service requirements of the American Autos of the time.
I also knew other families of Ford executives at various levels. Most of the cars which were driven by the younger members of the families were pretty heavily abused.
I had an opportunity to purchase my Pantera off of the Fomoco executive resale lot at Engineering and Design Center. However I heard from some of the techs there who I knew the Panteras showed signs of abuse - stress fractures, abused engines/transaxles, etc.
So I opted to purchase mine new from the local LM dealer.
In the short term it cost me more money (the resale lot had '73s for 3,000) but I think in the long term it saved me money. Even not abusing my 6949 metal fatigue was obvious in some areas after a few years of driving.
Jim Kosloskey 6949
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 9:24 PM
To: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Marti report question followup
I want to thank everybody who responded! Good stuff!
Just a couple things:
1. The cars destined for Ford executives needed to be returned to Ford for re-sale when they reached 6000 mi.
That might also be the case for other divisions such as public relations or marketing but it probably depended on who ya knew.
But it makes me wonder. Was there also a time limitation? How long would it take a full time Ford executive to put 6000 miles on a Pantera?
What if you lost your job? Did you have to give it back?
Anybody know any specifics?
2. Just because the Marti report says it was delivered to a specific retail dealership doesn't necessarily mean they sold it but it does help track it's travels.
Just as they still do today, dealerships will swap inventory with other dealers. Sometimes even out of state.
I received a PM about this and I'll copy/paste some of it for you all hopefully with the writers blessing!
He states-
"The Marty Report really only gives you the "DSO" & "Ordering Dealer", and then reports the initial (retail) "sale date". It does not actually list the dealer that sold the car new to the first retail purchaser.
I stumbled across this oddity researching my own Pantera(#deleted). My Marty Report says it was ordered by Pacific LM in Seattle, but I interviewed the original owner extensively, and he said he bought the car new in Orange Co. CA.
So this minor incongruence hot me curious, how do I explain this?
The only possible explanation I can think of, is;
1) a simple dealer trade due to regional sales demands, or
2) that Ford was using a non-California DSO & dealer to order 49 state smog certified cars, then moving them into California (where they were selling
well) and calling them "dealer trades" -- thereby skirting the more stringent CA emission regulations. If true, that would be pretty clever. "
That last part got me wondering exactly how Ford dealt with the tougher smog laws being imposed at the time. See VW.
Besides the 5 mph bumper redesign, bad marketing, low sales headaches, cooling, electrical issues ,etc. there must have been some major hair pulling going on around the whole program from the beginning.
Imagine having to tell Alejandro he now needs a redesign to make room for a smog pump!
We are lucky they got built at all. For just a sliver of time the stars were aligned just right. Time will tell if they'll ever line up again.
But IF the oddity called the Pantera hadn't been built you would have had to choose another car to dream about and then eventually own and enjoy.
What would it have been? I probably would have had to settle for a Lotus Esprit or something at my price point. The M1,Countach,Ferraris, all out of price and maintenance range for me at the time.
I guess I'll just thank my lucky stars I didn't have to settle for anything less than a one of a kind Pantera, no matter how it got here.
Happy trails,
Matt
3584
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-------------- next part --------------
Here is what I remember about how Ford handled all their executive cars
back in the 70's. The executives got cars as part of their compensation
package. Other Ford employees got a car to use for company business. I
can barely remember at least one Ford rep showing up at my dad's
dealership driving a Pantera. As to which cars they got, some could
choose others had limited choices usually driven by what Ford had a lot
of or what they wanted to get out into the market. There was a time
limit on how long they could be kept. Usually it was less than a year.
If the mileage was too high the executive/ employee got "talked to"
about the mileage and encouraged to change cars sooner. Not all
employees got a car it was based on your job description. These cars
were returned to Ford and sold usually thru a Ford auction direct to a
Ford or Lincoln Mercury dealer. No other brand dealers were able to
participate. These cars were sold as used cars. Mostly to keep them out
of future incentive programs Ford might place on a new car. They were
also counted as "sold" when they were first driven by the executive.
When you read about how many cars Ford or GM sold last month it
included these cars in those numbers.
Executives had first option to buy the car they were driving once they
turned it back in. It is possible that people who elected to do this
bought the car direct from Ford. Not many executives bought their car.
This might explain why some Pantera's don't show a dealer. Most will.
Some executives / employees could also "lease" additional cars for
their family at a discounted rate from Ford as a perk. Not everyone did
this either.
You should remember that we are talking about the late 60's and early
70's and there was some slop in this procedure. Things could get
manipulated back then, probably one of the reasons that records from
this time for Pantera's are hit or miss. I am also sure that State laws
across the country with respect to vehicles varied quite a bit so again
things might be a little different state to state. All these executive
cars were administered by the local regional offices and not just out
of Detroit. The above is a brief description of how Ford handled all
their cars not just Panteras but included Panteras
Hope this helps,
Ed...
Sent from [1]Mail for Windows 10
From: [2]Jim Kosloskey
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 12:17 AM
To: [3]'Matt'; [4]'DeTomaso Mail List'
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Marti report question followup
I went to High School with the son of the then Exec VP of North
American Operations at Fomoco.
He got a new car each year - mileage was not a factor.
He also got I think 2 more vehicles for his family. Those were changed
every 2 years as I recall. I don't recall ever hearing about a mileage
factor there either - but there could have been one.
His car went into service to be checked, cleaned, etc. every day he
went to work. Naturally his cars always performed flawlessly. No wonder
American Auto execs of the period did not understand the average owners
frustration with the construction and service requirements of the
American Autos of the time.
I also knew other families of Ford executives at various levels. Most
of the cars which were driven by the younger members of the families
were pretty heavily abused.
I had an opportunity to purchase my Pantera off of the Fomoco executive
resale lot at Engineering and Design Center. However I heard from some
of the techs there who I knew the Panteras showed signs of abuse -
stress fractures, abused engines/transaxles, etc.
So I opted to purchase mine new from the local LM dealer.
In the short term it cost me more money (the resale lot had '73s for
3,000) but I think in the long term it saved me money. Even not abusing
my 6949 metal fatigue was obvious in some areas after a few years of
driving.
Jim Kosloskey 6949
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 9:24 PM
To: DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Marti report question followup
I want to thank everybody who responded! Good stuff!
Just a couple things:
1. The cars destined for Ford executives needed to be returned to Ford
for re-sale when they reached 6000 mi.
That might also be the case for other divisions such as public
relations or marketing but it probably depended on who ya knew.
But it makes me wonder. Was there also a time limitation? How long
would it take a full time Ford executive to put 6000 miles on a
Pantera?
What if you lost your job? Did you have to give it back?
Anybody know any specifics?
2. Just because the Marti report says it was delivered to a specific
retail dealership doesn't necessarily mean they sold it but it does
help track it's travels.
Just as they still do today, dealerships will swap inventory with other
dealers. Sometimes even out of state.
I received a PM about this and I'll copy/paste some of it for you all
hopefully with the writers blessing!
He states-
"The Marty Report really only gives you the "DSO" & "Ordering Dealer",
and then reports the initial (retail) "sale date". It does not
actually list the dealer that sold the car new to the first retail
purchaser.
I stumbled across this oddity researching my own Pantera(#deleted). My
Marty Report says it was ordered by Pacific LM in Seattle, but I
interviewed the original owner extensively, and he said he bought the
car new in Orange Co. CA.
So this minor incongruence hot me curious, how do I explain this?
The only possible explanation I can think of, is;
1) a simple dealer trade due to regional sales demands, or
2) that Ford was using a non-California DSO & dealer to order 49 state
smog certified cars, then moving them into California (where they were
selling
well) and calling them "dealer trades" -- thereby skirting the more
stringent CA emission regulations. If true, that would be pretty
clever. "
That last part got me wondering exactly how Ford dealt with the tougher
smog laws being imposed at the time. See VW.
Besides the 5 mph bumper redesign, bad marketing, low sales headaches,
cooling, electrical issues ,etc. there must have been some major hair
pulling going on around the whole program from the beginning.
Imagine having to tell Alejandro he now needs a redesign to make room
for a smog pump!
We are lucky they got built at all. For just a sliver of time the stars
were aligned just right. Time will tell if they'll ever line up again.
But IF the oddity called the Pantera hadn't been built you would have
had to choose another car to dream about and then eventually own and
enjoy.
What would it have been? I probably would have had to settle for a
Lotus Esprit or something at my price point. The M1,Countach,Ferraris,
all out of price and maintenance range for me at the time.
I guess I'll just thank my lucky stars I didn't have to settle for
anything less than a one of a kind Pantera, no matter how it got here.
Happy trails,
Matt
3584
_______________________________________________
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References
1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
2. mailto:jim.kosloskey at jim-kosloskey.com
3. mailto:nwpantera at gmail.com
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