[DeTomaso] Marti report question followup
Matt
nwpantera at gmail.com
Wed Feb 28 02:13:50 EST 2018
Thanks for your help Asa Jay. The link didn't work so I just chopped some
stuff off the url and went in the front door and found it.
Seems that might be some rare original paperwork associated with "your" car.
I can see why you bought it with it's documented lineage being pretty
unique. Nice knowing the whole history of a car from the start.
Lucky Gene won the lottery! Good for him,you and now Steve.
Every car has a story to tell. If only they could talk!
I'd love to hear from any original owners if they wouldn't mind sharing a
story or two about the experience of buying a brand new Pantera!
Thanks,
Matt
3584
On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:51 PM, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com> wrote:
> For what it's worth, Pantera 05533 (now owned by Steve Lisa) was first
> sold to Central Accounting Services, Dearborn, MI. Presumably Ford.
> The Ship To address was for Philco Ford Corporation in Palo Alto, CA.
> For whatever reason, if I post a direct link to the photos, people are
> getting a Forbidden error on my server, so try this, which seems to
> work. Go to [1]www.asajay.com and click on my Pantera link. There,
> click on My Pantera Purchasing Experience. From there click on the
> link to "You can look at it here."
> On that page, if you scroll down, you'll find some pictures of the
> original documents that came with the car. If you click on the images,
> they should open without a problem. I no longer have these documents
> (Steve does). This is what I remember from going through all of it
> years ago.
> The car appears to have been a corporate car. That's the first Window
> Sticker you see. At the top of the sticker it has a dealer number
> 04A56J (I think). Perhaps that will lead someone to the correct
> dealer?
> The First CA registration also shows Philco Ford Corp with Ford MTR Co
> as the legal owner. However Gene Hickcox name is penciled in at the
> top, kind of indicating he was driving it. There were a LOT more of
> these registrations in the stack of owner data when I bought the
> Pantera.
> Next you'll see what looks like a sale contract penned by LAGO
> Lincoln-Mercury in Los Gatos. This appears to be the "sale" document
> after Ford gave up the car and Gene purchased it. Note the mileage of
> 13,668 at time of sale. What I don't show is another piece of paper
> that appeared to show several names, presumed to be -other- employees
> who were bidding on the car? That document also had an interesting
> coded number, which happened to match a Dymo label still attached to
> the front of the car. I presume that was kind of a corporate asset tag
> of some sort. It was still on the car when I sold it to Steve as I
> recall. I'm sorry I didn't include that extra paper on that web page.
> On that paper, Gene's name is the apparent winner and would become the
> new owner.
> Date and mileage on other paperwork included with the car (now in the
> hands of Steve Lisa), paint a pretty good picture that the car was
> owned by Ford, used by Gene, then subsequently purchased by Gene and
> driven until he could no longer drive. He probably put 100,000 miles
> on it and in general took very good care of the car. Then I purchased
> it from his estate (with help from Mike Drew and Jack DeRyke). That's
> a story you can find in a back issue of Profiles, 2001 I think.
> So, was a "dealer" involved in the original movement of the car to
> Philco Ford, when owned by Ford? I don't know, maybe the dealer number
> on the sticker can provide a clue. What we do know, is that later,
> when ownership was transferred to Gene, the contract was written by
> Lago Lincoln-Mercury.
> And that's my story. Hopefully you can get to the photos.
> Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> Spokane County ARES-RACES Net Manager
> ******************************
> [2]http://w7tsc.org
> [3]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>
> On 2/27/2018 8:24 PM, Matt wrote:
>
> I want to thank everybody who responded! Good stuff!
> Just a couple things:
> 1. The cars destined for Ford executives needed to be returned to Ford
> for re-sale when they reached 6000 mi.A
> That might also be the case for other divisions such as public
> relations or marketing but it probably depended on who ya knew.
> But it makes me wonder. Was there also a time limitation? How long
> would it take a full time Ford executive to put 6000 miles on a
> Pantera?
> What if you lost your job? Did you have to give it back?
> Anybody know any specifics?
> 2. Just because the Marti report says it was delivered to a specific
> retail dealership doesn't necessarily mean they sold it but it does
> help track it's travels.
> Just as they still do today, dealerships will swap inventory with other
> dealers. Sometimes even out of state.
> I received a PM about this and I'll copy/paste some of it for you all
> hopefully with the writers blessing!
> He states-
> "The Marty Report really only gives you the "DSO" & "Ordering Dealer",
> and then reports the initial (retail) "sale date".A It does not
> actually list the dealer that sold the car new to the first retail
> purchaser.
> I stumbled across this oddity researching my own Pantera(#deleted).A
> My Marty Report says it was ordered by Pacific LM in Seattle, but I
> interviewed the original owner extensively, and he said he bought the
> car new in Orange Co. CA.A
> So this minor incongruence hot me curious, how do I explain this?
> The only possible explanation I can think of, is;
> 1) a simple dealer trade due to regional sales demands, or
> 2) that Ford was using a non-California DSO & dealer to order 49 state
> smog certified cars, then moving them into California (where they were
> selling well) and calling them "dealer trades" -- thereby skirting the
> more stringent CA emission regulations.A If true, that would be pretty
> clever.A "
> That last part got me wondering exactly how Ford dealt with the tougher
> smog laws being imposed at the time. See VW.
> Besides the 5 mph bumper redesign, bad marketing, low sales headaches,
> cooling, electrical issues ,etc. there must have been some major hair
> pulling going on around the whole program from the beginning.
> Imagine having to tell Alejandro he now needs a redesign to make room
> for a smog pump!
> We are lucky they got built at all. For just a sliver of time the stars
> were aligned just right. Time will tell if they'll ever line up again.
> But IF the oddity called the Pantera hadn't been built you would have
> had to choose another car to dream about and then eventually own and
> enjoy.A
> What would it have been? I probably would have had to settle for a
> Lotus Esprit or something at my price point. The M1,Countach,Ferraris,
> all out of price and maintenance range for me at the time.
> I guess I'll just thank my lucky stars I didn't have to settle for
> anything less than a one of a kind Pantera, no matter how it got here.
> Happy trails,
> Matt
> 3584
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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> t messages.
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> References
>
> 1. http://www.asajay.com/
> 2. http://w7tsc.org/
> 3. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> 4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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> the archiving of list messages.
>
-------------- next part --------------
Thanks for your help Asa Jay. The link didn't work so I just chopped
some stuff off the url and went in the front door and found it.
Seems that might be some rare original paperwork associated with "your"
car.
I can see why you bought it with it's documented lineage being pretty
unique. Nice knowing the whole history of a car from the start.
Lucky Gene won the lottery! Good for him,you and now Steve.
Every car has a story to tell. If only they could talk!
I'd love to hear from any original owners if they wouldn't mind sharing
a story or two about the experience of buying a brand new Pantera!
Thanks,
Matt
3584
On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:51 PM, Asa Jay Laughton
<[1]asajay at asajay.com> wrote:
A A For what it's worth, Pantera 05533 (now owned by Steve Lisa)
was first
A A sold to Central Accounting Services, Dearborn, MI.A Presumably
Ford.
A A The Ship To address was for Philco Ford Corporation in Palo
Alto, CA.
A A For whatever reason, if I post a direct link to the photos,
people are
A A getting a Forbidden error on my server, so try this, which
seems to
A A work.A Go to [1][2]www.asajay.com and click on my Pantera
link.A There,
A A click on My Pantera Purchasing Experience.A From there click
on the
A A link to "You can look at it here."
A A On that page, if you scroll down, you'll find some pictures of
the
A A original documents that came with the car.A If you click on
the images,
A A they should open without a problem.A I no longer have these
documents
A A (Steve does).A This is what I remember from going through all
of it
A A years ago.
A A The car appears to have been a corporate car.A That's the
first Window
A A Sticker you see.A At the top of the sticker it has a dealer
number
A A 04A56J (I think).A Perhaps that will lead someone to the
correct
A A dealer?
A A The First CA registration also shows Philco Ford Corp with Ford
MTR Co
A A as the legal owner.A However Gene Hickcox name is penciled in
at the
A A top, kind of indicating he was driving it.A There were a LOT
more of
A A these registrations in the stack of owner data when I bought
the
A A Pantera.
A A Next you'll see what looks like a sale contract penned by LAGO
A A Lincoln-Mercury in Los Gatos.A This appears to be the "sale"
document
A A after Ford gave up the car and Gene purchased it.A Note the
mileage of
A A 13,668 at time of sale.A What I don't show is another piece of
paper
A A that appeared to show several names, presumed to be -other-
employees
A A who were bidding on the car?A A That document also had an
interesting
A A coded number, which happened to match a Dymo label still
attached to
A A the front of the car.A I presume that was kind of a corporate
asset tag
A A of some sort.A It was still on the car when I sold it to Steve
as I
A A recall.A I'm sorry I didn't include that extra paper on that
web page.
A A On that paper, Gene's name is the apparent winner and would
become the
A A new owner.
A A Date and mileage on other paperwork included with the car (now
in the
A A hands of Steve Lisa), paint a pretty good picture that the car
was
A A owned by Ford, used by Gene, then subsequently purchased by
Gene and
A A driven until he could no longer drive.A He probably put
100,000 miles
A A on it and in general took very good care of the car.A Then I
purchased
A A it from his estate (with help from Mike Drew and Jack
DeRyke).A That's
A A a story you can find in a back issue of Profiles, 2001 I think.
A A So, was a "dealer" involved in the original movement of the car
to
A A Philco Ford, when owned by Ford?A I don't know, maybe the
dealer number
A A on the sticker can provide a clue.A What we do know, is that
later,
A A when ownership was transferred to Gene, the contract was
written by
A A Lago Lincoln-Mercury.
A A And that's my story.A Hopefully you can get to the photos.
A A AsaA Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
Spokane County ARES-RACES Net Manager
******************************
[2][3]http://w7tsc.org
[3][4]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
A A On 2/27/2018 8:24 PM, Matt wrote:
A A I want to thank everybody who responded! Good stuff!
A A Just a couple things:
A A 1. The cars destined for Ford executives needed to be returned
to Ford
A A for re-sale when they reached 6000 mi.A
A A That might also be the case for other divisions such as public
A A relations or marketing but it probably depended on who ya knew.
A A But it makes me wonder. Was there also a time limitation? How
long
A A would it take a full time Ford executive to put 6000 miles on a
A A Pantera?
A A What if you lost your job? Did you have to give it back?
A A Anybody know any specifics?
A A 2. Just because the Marti report says it was delivered to a
specific
A A retail dealership doesn't necessarily mean they sold it but it
does
A A help track it's travels.
A A Just as they still do today, dealerships will swap inventory
with other
A A dealers. Sometimes even out of state.
A A I received a PM about this and I'll copy/paste some of it for
you all
A A hopefully with the writers blessing!
A A He states-
A A "The Marty Report really only gives you the "DSO" & "Ordering
Dealer",
A A and then reports the initial (retail) "sale date".AA It does
not
A A actually list the dealer that sold the car new to the first
retail
A A purchaser.
A A I stumbled across this oddity researching my own
Pantera(#deleted).A
A A My Marty Report says it was ordered by Pacific LM in Seattle,
but I
A A interviewed the original owner extensively, and he said he
bought the
A A car new in Orange Co. CA.A
A A So this minor incongruence hot me curious, how do I explain
this?
A A The only possible explanation I can think of, is;
A A 1) a simple dealer trade due to regional sales demands, or
A A 2) that Ford was using a non-California DSO & dealer to order
49 state
A A smog certified cars, then moving them into California (where
they were
A A selling well) and calling them "dealer trades" -- thereby
skirting the
A A more stringent CA emission regulations.AA If true, that would
be pretty
A A clever.A "
A A That last part got me wondering exactly how Ford dealt with the
tougher
A A smog laws being imposed at the time. See VW.
A A Besides the 5 mph bumper redesign, bad marketing, low sales
headaches,
A A cooling, electrical issues ,etc. there must have been some
major hair
A A pulling going on around the whole program from the beginning.
A A Imagine having to tell Alejandro he now needs a redesign to
make room
A A for a smog pump!
A A We are lucky they got built at all. For just a sliver of time
the stars
A A were aligned just right. Time will tell if they'll ever line up
again.
A A But IF the oddity called the Pantera hadn't been built you
would have
A A had to choose another car to dream about and then eventually
own and
A A enjoy.A
A A What would it have been? I probably would have had to settle
for a
A A Lotus Esprit or something at my price point. The
M1,Countach,Ferraris,
A A all out of price and maintenance range for me at the time.
A A I guess I'll just thank my lucky stars I didn't have to settle
for
A A anything less than a one of a kind Pantera, no matter how it
got here.
A A Happy trails,
A A Matt
A A 3584
_______________________________________________
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Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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any message p
osted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They
also grant
the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the
archiving of lis
t messages.
References
A A 1. [7]http://www.asajay.com/
A A 2. [8]http://w7tsc.org/
A A 3. [9]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
A A 4. mailto:[10]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A 5. [11]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
2. http://www.asajay.com/
3. http://w7tsc.org/
4. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
7. http://www.asajay.com/
8. http://w7tsc.org/
9. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
10. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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