[DeTomaso] Mangusta sells in France...and California....

audionut at hushmail.com audionut at hushmail.com
Sat Feb 10 14:55:37 EST 2018


Makes sense, all of that, thanks guys--

I guess where I was coming from with this question is my personal experience of 40+ years of going to public car shows in
SoCal or stumbling upon them elsewhere.  I remember seeing Porsche Speedsters, Shelby Cobras, Mercedes Gullwings, on a regular basis.

Surely high dollar vintage collector cars such as these can be seen at private/ticketed concours-style events, but speaking as an "average Joe" on the street, they've all but disappeared before my eyes.

Last time I saw a 300SL Gullwing was about 20 years ago at car show in Seal Beach.  I asked the owner how much one of these was going for (some guys tell you, some don't) and he said "Well.....let's just say that this is the last time I'll be bringing it to a car show like this."   I asked him why and he said he was going nuts watching over the car and didn't want to buff out the scratches that magically appeared every time he turned his back on it.
 
Fair enough then --  maybe I've answered my own question right there.


Sent using Hushmail


On February 10, 2018 at 9:14 AM, "Gray Gregory" <rgg at gregorycook.com> wrote:
>
>Scott,
>
>My point  is that it's not the value of the car that determines 
>whether it's driven or not but rather the individual owners. Value 
>vs net worth may be a deciding factor for some owners; however if 
>we go with that theory then it would also stand to reason that the 
>new owners buying cars at current prices have higher net worth's 
>and thus would be more likely to drive the cars than the previous 
>owners... 
>
>I guess what I disagree with most is this perception that the 
>buyers / owners of high value cars are somehow not "real car guys" 
>and just want to lock them in a vault somewhere. Some of the car 
>craziest people I know of, think Jay Leno, John Shirley, Rob 
>Walton, Bruce Meyer etc. etc.  have large collections of very 
>valuable cars and use them regularly.  
>
>Gray
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Scott Couchman [mailto:scottcouchman at yahoo.com] 
>Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 7:54 AM
>To: Gray Gregory <rgg at gregorycook.com>
>Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mangusta sells in France...and 
>California....
>
>Gray, I think in the examples you cited, the issue isn’t so much 
>the value of the car, but more to do with the net worth of the 
>owner. People buy cars specifically to participate in events like 
>vintage racing and the Colorado Grand, as well as similar events 
>in Europe. The cars are worth lots of money, but the owners are 
>worth MUCH MORE! There are lots of cars that have appreciated in 
>value owned by people where the car is now a significant 
>percentage of their net worth.....those don’t get driven as much.
>
>> On Feb 10, 2018, at 5:05 AM, Gray Gregory <rgg at gregorycook.com> 
>wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gray Gregory
>> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 7:03 AM
>> To: 'Pantdino' <pantdino at aol.com>; audionut at hushmail.com
>> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Mangusta sells in France...and 
>California....
>> 
>> I don't think value has much to do with it. There's plenty of 
>high value cars that get driven and there's plenty of lower value 
>cars languishing in garages and vice versa. Every buyer / owner 
>has their own reasons for wanting a particular car and there own 
>desires for what they want to do with it.
>> 
>> Look at events such as the Colorado grand, Tour Auto and dozens 
>more like them. You'll see everything from MG TD"s to Ferrari 
>GTO's and everything in between. Vintage racing is another good 
>example. At any given event the same broad range of cars will be 
>on the track racing wheel to wheel.
>> 
>> Gray
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] 
>On 
>> Behalf Of Pantdino via DeTomaso
>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 10:07 PM
>> To: audionut at hushmail.com; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mangusta sells in France...and 
>California....
>> 
>> Probably depends on what the guy paid for it.  
>> 
>> 
>> If he got the car years ago and now its worth 10X what he paid, 
>in his 
>> mind its still worth X and he'll drive it
>> 
>> 
>> If some guy with a 50 car collection just paid 10X for it, it 
>will 
>> just sit in his collection and never get driven
>> 
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: audionut <audionut at hushmail.com>
>> To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> Sent: Fri, Feb 9, 2018 10:44 am
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mangusta sells in France...and 
>California....
>> 
>> ....and that was the last time anyone ever saw a Mangusta.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Just wondering'.....anybody want to take a guess at the 
>current dollar
>>   value a "collector car" reaches that effectively removes it 
>from the
>>   streets/home garages and banishes it to a Rapunzelesque 
>existence in
>>   someone's private museum/collection?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Sent using Hushmail
>>   On 2/9/2018 at 7:52 AM, bill at incendium.com wrote:
>> 
>>     Sold 306K
>>     CheersBill MooreCalgary 403-860-4300
>>     -------- Original message --------From: Julian Kift
>>     <julian_kift at hotmail.com> Date: 2018-02-09 8:38 AM (GMT-
>07:00) To:
>>     Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1 at me.com>, Mike & Elizabeth Thomas
>>     <mbefthomas at comcast.net> Cc: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
>>     "DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
>DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
>>     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 
>Mangusta
>>     sells in France...and California....
>>    Looks to be a no sale, bidding hit EUR240K (US$293K)
>>     More interestingly Lot 52 is a Vallelunga
>>     
>[1]https://auctions.artcurial.com/en/infinitebidding.asp?method=get
>L
>>     otInfo&lotref=B88472C9DD&seq=52
>>     ________________________________
>>     From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
>>     Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 7:26 AM
>>     To: Jeff Cobb; Mike & Elizabeth Thomas
>>     Cc: Mike Drew; DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>     DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mangusta sells in France...and
>>     California....
>>    We should get to see pretty soon as 8MA1216 (Jonathan Root's 
>old
>>     car) is up for sale at Retromobile today, in fact in about 3 
>lots
>>     time; estimate is EUR280-340K (US$343-416K), although 
>Jonathan said
>>     it has had a hard life since he sold it.
>>     [2]https://www.artcurial.com/en/lot-1970-de-tomaso-mangusta-
>3279-47
>>     Julian
>>     ________________________________
>>     From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on 
>behalf
>>     of Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1 at me.com>
>>     Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 3:11 AM
>>     To: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas
>>     Cc: Mike Drew; DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>     DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mangusta sells in France...and
>>     California....
>>     The trend should continue.
>>     Jeff
>>  Sent from my brain.
>>> On Feb 8, 2018, at 7:07 PM, Mike & Elizabeth Thomas
>>     <mbefthomas at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The 'Goose is starting to lay some golden eggs . . .
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
>>     On Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 7:21 AM
>>> To: De Tomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Mangusta sells in France...and 
>California....
>>> 
>>> ...for a bunch of money. 8MA998 sold for slightly over top
>>     estimate. Unlike some recent Mangusta auction sales, this one
>>     appears to be a very solid car with subtle performance 
>upgrades.
>>> 
>>> 1972 DeTomaso    SOLD    $312,301 USD
>>> Mangusta    EST. PRICE    $237.35K-$299.81K USD
>>> 
>>> 
>>> FWIW I know of a recent private sale of an immaculate, totally
>>     original and complete California Mangusta that had one owner 
>for 45
>>     years, then was treated to an excellent repaint in the 
>original
>>     color by the second owner. That one just sold for $350k.
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> 
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>>    archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>        Looks to be a no sale, bidding hit EUR240K (US$293K)
>>        More interestingly Lot 52 is a Vallelunga
>> 
>>     
>[1][5]https://auctions.artcurial.com/en/infinitebidding.asp?method=
>g
>>     etLotI
>>        nfo&lotref=B88472C9DD&seq=52
>> 
>>     
>__________________________________________________________________
>>        From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
>>        Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 7:26 AM
>>        To: Jeff Cobb; Mike & Elizabeth Thomas
>>        Cc: Mike Drew; DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>        DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>        Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mangusta sells in France...and
>>     California....
>>        We should get to see pretty soon as 8MA1216 (Jonathan 
>Root's old
>>     car)
>>        is up for sale at Retromobile today, in fact in about 3 
>lots
>>     time;
>>        estimate is EUR280-340K (US$343-416K), although Jonathan 
>said it
>>     has
>>        had a hard life since he sold it.
>> 
>>     [2][6]https://www.artcurial.com/en/lot-1970-de-tomaso-
>mangusta-3279-
>>     47
>>  Julian
>> 
>>     
>__________________________________________________________________
>>        From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> 
>on
>>     behalf of
>>   Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1 at me.com>
>>        Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 3:11 AM
>>   To: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas
>>        Cc: Mike Drew; DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>        DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Mangusta sells in France...and
>>     California....
>>    The trend should continue.
>>        Jeff
>>        Sent from my brain.
>>> On Feb 8, 2018, at 7:07 PM, Mike & Elizabeth Thomas
>>        <mbefthomas at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The 'Goose is starting to lay some golden eggs . . .
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: DeTomaso
>>     [[3]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
>>    On Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 7:21 AM
>>> To: De Tomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Mangusta sells in France...and
>>     California....
>>> 
>>> ...for a bunch of money. 8MA998 sold for slightly over top
>>     estimate.
>>        Unlike some recent Mangusta auction sales, this one 
>appears to be
>>     a
>>        very solid car with subtle performance upgrades.
>>> 
>>> 1972 DeTomaso    SOLD    $312,301 USD
>>> Mangusta    EST. PRICE    $237.35K-$299.81K USD
>>> 
>>> 
>>> FWIW I know of a recent private sale of an immaculate, totally
>>        original and complete California Mangusta that had one 
>owner for
>>     45
>>        years, then was treated to an excellent repaint in the 
>original
>>     color
>>        by the second owner. That one just sold for $350k.
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must 
>not 
>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list 
>>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
>>> [4][7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
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>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
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>>        any message posted here to all past, current, or future 
>members
>>     of the
>>        list. They also grant the list owner permission to 
>maintain an
>>     archive
>>        or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>        _______________________________________________
>>        Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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>>       DeTomaso mailing list
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>[5][8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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>>        Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
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>>        list. They also grant the list owner permission to 
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>>     References
>>        1.
>>     
>[9]https://auctions.artcurial.com/en/infinitebidding.asp?method=get
>L
>>     otInfo&lotref=B88472C9DD&seq=52
>>        2.
>>     [10]https://www.artcurial.com/en/lot-1970-de-tomaso-mangusta-
>3279-47
>>        3. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>>        4. 
>[11]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>        5. 
>[12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>>     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>     DeTomaso mailing list
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>>     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to 
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>>     the list. They also grant the list owner permission to 
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>>    archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>> 
>> References
>> 
>>   1. 
>> 
>https://auctions.artcurial.com/en/infinitebidding.asp?method=getLot
>Inf
>> o&lotref=B88472C9DD&seq=52 2. 
>> https://www.artcurial.com/en/lot-1970-de-tomaso-mangusta-3279-47
>>   3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>   4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>   5. 
>https://auctions.artcurial.com/en/infinitebidding.asp?method=getLot
>I
>>   6. https://www.artcurial.com/en/lot-1970-de-tomaso-mangusta-
>3279-47
>>   7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>   8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>   9. 
>> 
>https://auctions.artcurial.com/en/infinitebidding.asp?method=getLot
>Inf
>> o&lotref=B88472C9DD&seq=52 10. 
>> https://www.artcurial.com/en/lot-1970-de-tomaso-mangusta-3279-47
>>  11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>  12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>  13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must 
>not 
>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list 
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>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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>DeTomaso mailing list
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