[DeTomaso] Longer wheelstuds

Mike Drew MikeLDrew at aol.com
Thu Feb 8 10:27:55 EST 2018


Thanks Les, that’s a great analysis. 

What I meant when discussing ‘multiple options’ is that while keeping the stock diameter, one can buy factory studs in two lengths, plus aftermarket (presumably stronger) studs in a variety of lengths as well as different configurations, for positioning the rotor either on the inside or outside of the axle. 

I wonder who supplied the oversized axles in question here? Wouldn’t they be an obvious source for appropriate matching studs?

Mike

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 7, 2018, at 15:34, L GRAY <tipo874a at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> ........ if you look at the drawing you’ll see that he needs specific diameters & areas of location for the brake disc to align on a shoulder. 
>      What my statement alludes to is some of the Racing suppliers will make custom wheel studs for a customer. With the use of “standard diameter”, the manufacturer can pull blanks from existing stock, machine to specs, instead of having to generate a completely ground up stud(s), which reduces overall cost for all concerned. 
>     The splined Diameter he’s looking for is 15.25mm which is .6003925”. There is probably a US produced stud blank produced very near to what he’s looking for in diameter. 
>     The factory Group 4 stud is a bit lacking in strength due to is relatively small diameter. 
>        If it weren’t for staying original,  02823 would have much larger diameter studs installed and they would need to be semi customized depending on whether using the stock trapped disc orientation or the exterior disc mounting. (which every race car I know of uses) This means the shoulder where the disc sits is in a different location as well as the splined section on the wheel stud. 
>        Our factory wheel stud is built for a trapped brake disc only. As you all know, our studs are pressed into the disc with the axle flange shoulder being located immediately after the stud mount flange (which is very unique & dictated by available clearance space).
>      And Mike, we most certainly do not have a multitude of choice with factory studs. They are either the standard length or the longer GR 4 stud while  maintaining  the small diameter stud size. Unless I’m unaware of someone reproducing Gr 4 studs in multiple lengths. I “ think that factory Gr. 4 studs were in two lengths ?
> Someone have a Euro parts book handy??
>    Just for info, Porsche has been using 14mm diameter wheel studs for the 911, 914, & 930 cars forever and I’ve personally seen or heard of one failing. . . . . . . 
> 
>   Now for a different take on this, you could bore the axle flange and tap to your desired thread for a screw in stud (using red Loc-tite to secure) Have the stud made with your disc shoulder size & location and no spline needed !
>     ......... and if you’re really anal about it ( as I am ), ring up ARP Racing Hardware and they’ll make you absolutely ANYTHING to your requirements . .  for a fee, but they’ll be perfect and ultra strong. 
> 
>    If I’m not making sense, please get back to me and I’ll try my best to be clearer in defining my thoughts. I’m not an engineer by any stretch but I’ve been racing ultra fast cars since the 1970’s / 1980’s and wrenching on them for just as long. 
>      By no means am I saying I know it all, as I learn something new from my  forum brothers every day from people who are smarter than I. I’m just stating that in all my years I spent in endurance racing I learned a lot about stress loads on the street versus loads on the race track.  
>      Yes I know the Gr. 4 cars ran these small studs back in the day, but with current tire tech and chassis set up, we are placing greater loads on these components than were ever conceived of in 1971 !
>    
> 
> Leslie A. Gray
> ===================
> 
> On Feb 7, 2018, at 1:05 PM, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> If this adds choices, why does Pat say they have to be fabricated???
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> 
>> From: L GRAY <tipo874a at msn.com>
>> To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com> 
>> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>; Dinosport <info at dinosport.be>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 12:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Longer wheelstuds
>> 
>>   Mike,
>>     The bore being larger allows us to use standard inch scale diameter studs which means a multitude of choices. 
>> 
>>     Best regards,
>>         Leslie A. Gray
>> 
>> > On Feb 7, 2018, at 12:05 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> > Patrick,
>> > 
>> > The spline is larger? What do you mean? Are you saying the holes in the axles have been drilled oversize so stock-diameter studs won't fit? That sounds like an incredibly dumb thing to do?
>> > 
>> > Or am I misunderstanding you?
>> > 
>> > Mike
>> > 
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> > 
>> >> On Feb 7, 2018, at 10:44, Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>  Thank you for your response, but I am afraid the spline is larger than
>> >>  original, hence the need to fabricate them.
>> >>  Pat
>> >>  Patrick Hals
>> >>  +32.476.567.898
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> 
>> >> 
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-------------- next part --------------
   Thanks Les, that's a great analysis.

   What I meant when discussing `multiple options' is that while keeping
   the stock diameter, one can buy factory studs in two lengths, plus
   aftermarket (presumably stronger) studs in a variety of lengths as well
   as different configurations, for positioning the rotor either on the
   inside or outside of the axle.

   I wonder who supplied the oversized axles in question here? Wouldn't
   they be an obvious source for appropriate matching studs?

   Mike
   Sent from my iPad
   On Feb 7, 2018, at 15:34, L GRAY <[1]tipo874a at msn.com> wrote:

   ........ if you look at the drawing you'll see that he needs specific
   diameters & areas of location for the brake disc to align on a
   shoulder.
        What my statement alludes to is some of the Racing suppliers will
   make custom wheel studs for a customer. With the use of "standard
   diameter", the manufacturer can pull blanks from existing stock,
   machine to specs, instead of having to generate a completely ground up
   stud(s), which reduces overall cost for all concerned.
       The splined Diameter he's looking for is 15.25mm which is
   .6003925". There is probably a US produced stud blank produced very
   near to what he's looking for in diameter.
       The factory Group 4 stud is a bit lacking in strength due to is
   relatively small diameter.
          If it weren't for staying original,  02823 would have much
   larger diameter studs installed and they would need to be semi
   customized depending on whether using the stock trapped disc
   orientation or the exterior disc mounting. (which every race car I know
   of uses) This means the shoulder where the disc sits is in a different
   location as well as the splined section on the wheel stud.
          Our factory wheel stud is built for a trapped brake disc only.
   As you all know, our studs are pressed into the disc with the axle
   flange shoulder being located immediately after the stud mount flange
   (which is very unique & dictated by available clearance space).
        And Mike, we most certainly do not have a multitude of choice with
   factory studs. They are either the standard length or the longer GR 4
   stud while  maintaining  the small diameter stud size. Unless I'm
   unaware of someone reproducing Gr 4 studs in multiple lengths. I "
   think that factory Gr. 4 studs were in two lengths ?
   Someone have a Euro parts book handy??
      Just for info, Porsche has been using 14mm diameter wheel studs for
   the 911, 914, & 930 cars forever and I've personally seen or heard of
   one failing. . . . . . .
     Now for a different take on this, you could bore the axle flange and
   tap to your desired thread for a screw in stud (using red Loc-tite to
   secure) Have the stud made with your disc shoulder size & location and
   no spline needed !
       ......... and if you're really anal about it ( as I am ), ring up
   ARP Racing Hardware and they'll make you absolutely ANYTHING to your
   requirements . .  for a fee, but they'll be perfect and ultra strong.
      If I'm not making sense, please get back to me and I'll try my best
   to be clearer in defining my thoughts. I'm not an engineer by any
   stretch but I've been racing ultra fast cars since the 1970's / 1980's
   and wrenching on them for just as long.
        By no means am I saying I know it all, as I learn something new
   from my  forum brothers every day from people who are smarter than I.
   I'm just stating that in all my years I spent in endurance racing I
   learned a lot about stress loads on the street versus loads on the race
   track.
        Yes I know the Gr. 4 cars ran these small studs back in the day,
   but with current tire tech and chassis set up, we are placing greater
   loads on these components than were ever conceived of in 1971 !

   Leslie A. Gray
   ===================
   On Feb 7, 2018, at 1:05 PM, Ken Green <[2]kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

   If this adds choices, why does Pat say they have to be fabricated???
   Ken
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: L GRAY <[3]tipo874a at msn.com>
   To: Mike Drew <[4]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
   Cc: "[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
   <[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Patrick HALS
   <[7]patrickhals at gmail.com>; Dinosport <[8]info at dinosport.be>
   Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 12:50 PM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Longer wheelstuds
     Mike,
       The bore being larger allows us to use standard inch scale diameter
   studs which means a multitude of choices.
       Best regards,
           Leslie A. Gray
   > On Feb 7, 2018, at 12:05 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
   <[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
   >
   > Patrick,
   >
   > The spline is larger? What do you mean? Are you saying the holes in
   the axles have been drilled oversize so stock-diameter studs won't fit?
   That sounds like an incredibly dumb thing to do?
   >
   > Or am I misunderstanding you?
   >
   > Mike
   >
   > Sent from my iPhone
   >
   >> On Feb 7, 2018, at 10:44, Patrick HALS <[10]patrickhals at gmail.com>
   wrote:
   >>
   >>  Thank you for your response, but I am afraid the spline is larger
   than
   >>  original, hence the need to fabricate them.
   >>  Pat
   >>  Patrick Hals
   >>  +32.476.567.898
   >> _______________________________________________
   >>
   >>
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References

   1. mailto:tipo874a at msn.com
   2. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   3. mailto:tipo874a at msn.com
   4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   7. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
   8. mailto:info at dinosport.be
   9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. mailto:patrickhals at gmail.com
  11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  12. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C015e98fd68c94308d3a708d56e66105e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636536306998747441&sdata=XoBtAUarhEMxEZyJCA03xXS4AJlFMN2D%2F90qKGpAn%2Fo%3D&reserved=0
  13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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  15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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