[DeTomaso] intake manifold

[Daniel C Jones]

> I have an edlebrock high rise intake for a 4v that is not made any more

That sounds like the Edelbrock Scorpion.  It looks like an Edelbrock Torker
but is taller.  My guess is the Scorpion was too tall to fit under a lot of
hoods so Edelbrock brought out the Torker as a lower profile version
(easier to add a spacer than it is to mill off 2" of plenum).

> I am building an engine for my daughters car.

Is this a Pantera or another car?  What are the rest of the engine details
(headers or cast iron manifolds, cam specs, compression ratio,
displacement, etc.)?  Be aware that Trick Flow Specialties makes their
R-Series EFI intake manifolds for Cleveland heads now.  These are similar
in style to OEM Ford EFI intakes first introduced on the 5.0L Windsor with
a lower intake with injector bungs and a side feed upper plenum:

 https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-516b0114

They make them in silver or black, with a throttle body opening of 75mm or
90mm, for both 9.2" (Cleveland) and 9.5" (Windsor or SVO) deck height
blocks.  They make them in silver and black, with a throttle body opening
of 75mm or 90mm, for both 9.2" (Cleveland) or 9.5" (Windsor or SVO
blocks).  They have 2V sized ports but are supposed to seal against 4V
heads.  Before these were available, Thomas Tornblom modified a 351W
version to fit his Pantera.  IIRC, he had to mill the mating surface of the
lower intake as much as possible (and still permit clearance for the
injectors and fuel rails) in order to get it to clear.  He said it just
clears the decklid and fits snugly under the engine screen.  Compared to
wet flow throttle body injection on an intake originally designed for a
carburetor, the dedicated EFI intake should have several advantages (longer
runners, dry air flow, sequential port injection).

> If it’s a performance engine, the Pantera-specific Blue Thunder intake
(remade from the original Shelby performance parts intake) is likely the
best that can fit under the stock screen.

Out-of-the-box, the Blue Thunder needs some work as it and the Ford and
Edelbrock Performer dual planes have four bad runners and four good
runners.  In our dyno testing on a 351C-4V, the Edelbrock Performer RPM Air
Gap 2V dual plane actually worked better on the 4V heads as did the Scott
Cook dual plane since both of those intakes have much more equal flow to
all eight cylinders.  The Performer RPM Air Gap 2V isn't as tall as
Edelbrock Scorpion but it's still too tall to fit under a stock engine
screen (unless you milled it down).  The Scott Cook intake is excellent and
only slightly taller than the stock Ford intake but can be expensive to
import to the United States.

First, you'll need to decide between a single plane or a dual plane intake
manifold.  I've not had a chance to test single and dual plane intakes with
EFI back-to-back on the dyno so all I can do is speculate.  The divided
plenum and cylinder pairings of the dual plane plenum have several
effects.  One is a stronger signal at the carb booster venturi which isn't
important with injection.  A single plane intake is still more susceptible
to intake reversion but that may not be an issue, depending upon the cam
timing (and weight and gearing).  Compared to the best dual planes on a
351C-4V, the Holley Strip Dominator single plane made more peak power on
our test engine but gave up something like 30 ft-lbs down low with a
conventional Holley 4 barrel carb.  However, a friend ran one with a
Predator (same as a Kendig) variable venturi carb and said it picked up a
bunch in the low RPM range.  Given that experience, I'd be inclined to try
one with port injection.  If the engine isn't too radical, I'd even be
tempted to try a Holley Street Dominator 2V small port single plane which
has tested well up to around 450 HP.  With some plenum work a Blue Thunder,
Ford Boss 351 or Edelbrock Performer 4V might also work well on the right
engine combination.

Gerry Romack is now running Holley throttle body injection on an Edelbrock
Performer 2V on a 351C with TFS 351C-2V heads.  Dave McLain spent some time
on the plenum equalizing the flow and milled the plenum flat as Gerry
wanted clearance to run an oversize Chrysler 340 air cleaner under a stock
engine screen.  I think I have the flow numbers for the modified Performer
around here somewhere but I recall being impressed with the results.

Dan Jones
-------------- next part --------------
   > I have an edlebrock high rise intake for a 4v that is not made any
   more
   That sounds like the Edelbrock Scorpion.A  It looks like an Edelbrock
   Torker but is taller.A  My guess is the Scorpion was too tall to fit
   under a lot of hoods so Edelbrock brought out the Torker as a lower
   profile version (easier to add a spacer than it is to mill off 2" of
   plenum).A
   > I am building an engine for my daughters car.
   Is this a Pantera or another car?A  What are the rest of the engine
   details (headers or cast iron manifolds, cam specs, compression ratio,
   displacement, etc.)?A  Be aware that Trick Flow Specialties makes their
   R-Series EFI intake manifolds for Cleveland heads now.A  These are
   similar in style to OEM Ford EFI intakes first introduced on the 5.0L
   Windsor with a lower intake with injector bungs and a side feed upper
   plenum:
   A [1]https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-516b0114
   A
   They make them in silver or black, with a throttle body opening of 75mm
   or 90mm, for both 9.2" (Cleveland) and 9.5" (Windsor or SVO) deck
   height blocks.A  They make them in silver and black, with a throttle
   body opening of 75mm or 90mm, for both 9.2" (Cleveland) or 9.5"
   (Windsor or SVO blocks).A  They have 2V sized ports but are supposed to
   seal against 4V heads.A  Before these were available, Thomas Tornblom
   modified a 351W version to fit his Pantera.A  IIRC, he had to mill the
   mating surface of the lower intake as much as possible (and still
   permit clearance for the injectors and fuel rails) in order to get it
   to clear.A  He said it just clears the decklid and fits snugly under
   the engine screen.A  Compared to wet flow throttle body injection on an
   intake originally designed for a carburetor, the dedicated EFI intake
   should have several advantages (longer runners, dry air flow,
   sequential port injection).
   > If itas a performance engine, the Pantera-specific Blue Thunder
   intake (remade from the original Shelby performance parts intake) is
   likely the best that can fit under the stock screen.
   Out-of-the-box, the Blue Thunder needs some work as it and the Ford and
   Edelbrock Performer dual planes have four bad runners and four good
   runners.A  In our dyno testing on a 351C-4V, the Edelbrock Performer
   RPM Air Gap 2V dual plane actually worked better on the 4V heads as did
   the Scott Cook dual plane since both of those intakes have much more
   equal flow to all eight cylinders.A  The Performer RPM Air Gap 2V isn't
   as tall as Edelbrock Scorpion but it's still too tall to fit under a
   stock engine screen (unless you milled it down).A  The Scott Cook
   intake is excellent and only slightly taller than the stock Ford intake
   but can be expensive to import to the United States.
   First, you'll need to decide between a single plane or a dual plane
   intake manifold.A  I've not had a chance to test single and dual plane
   intakes with EFI back-to-back on the dyno so all I can do is
   speculate.A  The divided plenum and cylinder pairings of the dual plane
   plenum have several effects.A  One is a stronger signal at the carb
   booster venturi which isn't important with injection.A  A single plane
   intake is still more susceptible to intake reversion but that may not
   be an issue, depending upon the cam timing (and weight and gearing).A
   Compared to the best dual planes on a 351C-4V, the Holley Strip
   Dominator single plane made more peak power on our test engine but gave
   up something like 30 ft-lbs down low with a conventional Holley 4
   barrel carb.A  However, a friend ran one with a Predator (same as a
   Kendig) variable venturi carb and said it picked up a bunch in the low
   RPM range.A  Given that experience, I'd be inclined to try one with
   port injection.A  If the engine isn't too radical, I'd even be tempted
   to try a Holley Street Dominator 2V small port single plane which has
   tested well up to around 450 HP.A  With some plenum work a Blue
   Thunder, Ford Boss 351 or Edelbrock Performer 4V might also work well
   on the right engine combination.
   Gerry Romack is now running Holley throttle body injection on an
   Edelbrock Performer 2V on a 351C with TFS 351C-2V heads.A  Dave McLain
   spent some time on the plenum equalizing the flow and milled the plenum
   flat as Gerry wanted clearance to run an oversize Chrysler 340 air
   cleaner under a stock engine screen.A  I think I have the flow numbers
   for the modified Performer around here somewhere but I recall being
   impressed with the results.
   Dan Jones

References

   1. https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-516b0114