[DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years?

Himes, Terry (397C) terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
Wed Oct 18 10:39:49 EDT 2017


Good point. 

"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
 stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
 
Terry W. Himes 
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell:     (818) 653-8213
thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
🇺🇸
 

On 10/18/17, 7:38 AM, "Charles McCall" <charlesmccall at gmail.com> wrote:

    It was an interesting show - thanks for sharing!
    
    Terry - you say the EFI was "lots of work" - but how many times did they change jets and who knows what else on the carb? The engine was on a bench connected to a dyno to easily and objectively see what was happening, and these guys knew what they were doing, which made it a little easier. You could make the argument that in the engine bay of the Pantera, it's the CARB that's a lot of work to get it to run optimally. 
    
    That being said, the KISS and lack of possibility for failure make the carb quite attractive
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Himes, Terry (397C) [mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov] 
    Sent: miércoles, 18 de octubre de 2017 16:19
    To: jgkrenton at comcast.net; McCall, Charles <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
    Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years?
    
    Loved it!   But EFI seems like a lot of work for little gain.  I like KISS.
    
    
    "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
     stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
     
    Terry W. Himes 
    JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
    Dawn Spacecraft Team
    Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
    Phone: (818) 393-6261
    Cell:     (818) 653-8213
    thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
    🇺🇸
     
    
    On 10/17/17, 8:19 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of jgkrenton at comcast.net" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of jgkrenton at comcast.net> wrote:
    
        Charlie/Bill: 
        
        Just stumbled over this: 
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sQJPZYSoUI 
        
        Holley Carb VS Holley Throttle Body EFI on the dyno... 
        
        For your continued amusement. 
        
        Jeff 2467 
        
        
        ----- Original Message -----
        
        From: "Charles McCall" <charlesmccall at gmail.com> 
        To: bill at incendium.com, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
        Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 10:46:58 AM 
        Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years? 
        
        Fair question. There’s nothing inherently wrong with a carburetor after all… 
        
        It’s a very long answer, but the Reader’s Digest version is the following. I bought my Holley from a Pantera vendor many moons ago and it ran horribly on my car. It was supposed to be set up “for a Pantera”, but thinking about that, what is a Pantera engine? A stock, low compression ’74 with all the smog stuff installed? A ’71 high compression engine? A 408 stroker? There’s no way one carb could be set up to handle all those situations. And out of the box, on my particular engine it stumbled all over itself and ran very poorly. 
        
        
        
        So I ordered a complete set of jets and started there. Again summarizing the story, after swapping jets for weeks and weeks on end, things improved but still weren’t “right”. So I sent my carb off to a carb specialist who, armed with all the data regarding my engine, blueprinted, flowed, and rebuilt it. When it came back it worked very, very well. 
        
        
        
        But I think it could work better. Mike Drew has made a pointed comment or two about the fact that it’s hard to follow me due to the birds falling out of the sky behind me due to CO poisoning… A good friend followed me around at a car event last year and discretely positioned himself in front of me so he could remove his oxygen mask.. The temperature of the planet raises a couple of degrees every time I start the engine in my garage… it appears to be running a shade rich. 
        
        
        
        Everyone is different, but I’d rather be driving my car than monkeying with the jets by myself, far from anyone who actually knows what they are doing. In an ideal world, if the EFI works like I’d like it to, it would automatically completely optimize the carburation as opposed to my trial-and-error, or the paper experience of an expert. I’ve been riding my Benelli Sei quite a bit recently, and it is such a fantastic feeling to enjoy a motor that has the carburation dead-nuts-on. The engine just runs soooo well. The Pantera runs well, but I think it could run better. Or at least that doubt would be solved… 
        
        
        
        Additionally, I failed emissions testing last year the first time through, and just squeaked by during the retest after cleaning the K&N filter. Not sure if all this is related, but since this carb has been in use for 18 years now, I’ve been thinking of rebuilding it. But instead of rebuilding it, if the EFI works like I hope it does and the price difference isn’t ALL that great…. Maybe? Hence my question. 
        
        
        
        From: bill at incendium.com [mailto:bill at incendium.com] 
        Sent: sábado, 14 de octubre de 2017 19:21 
        To: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>; 'Ken Green' <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
        Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years? 
        
        
        
        Why change a very good carburetor set up ? 
        
        Luv my 750 DP. 
        
        
        
        
        
        
        
        Cheers 
        
        Bill Moore 
        
        Calgary 
        
        
        
        -------- Original message -------- 
        
        From: Charles McCall < <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> charlesmccall at gmail.com> 
        
        Date: 2017-10-14 11:06 AM (GMT-07:00) 
        
        To: 'Ken Green' < <mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com> kenn_green at yahoo.com>, <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
        
        Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years? 
        
        
        
        Thanks, Ken and Jeff.. partially answering my own question I see FITech, MSD, and Holley all offer systems that appear to be the panacea. 
        
        
        
        Roughly $1000 for just the unit, or $1200 with a fuel pump and complete installation kit. The reviews for the three seem to be similar – the majority of people are thrilled, but there’s a small but consistent minority that had serious problems. Cutting and pasting from reviews: 
        
        “ I received 2 defective units that would never sync up to the ECU and my final 3rd Sniper finally did work.” 
        
        
        
        
        “Quit running after 15 miles 
        
        
        Summit Racing Verified Purchase 
        
        My car ran beautifully at first then quit. Throttle body is not reading a rpm signal. All connections have been checked. I await return paper work to send the unit back.” 
        
        
        
        Most people are pretty pleased though. Some comments about installation being a little more complicated than promised. Any other firsthand feedback regarding installation on a Pantera? 
        
        
        
        
        
        From: Ken Green [ <mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com> mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com] 
        Sent: sábado, 14 de octubre de 2017 18:58 
        To: Charles McCall < <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> charlesmccall at gmail.com>; <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
        Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years? 
        
        
        
        I think FAST, Holley, and MSD all have bolt on single 4V throttle body EFIs that practically tune themselves, but you will need am EFI fuel pump and I'm pretty sure a O2 sensor in the exhaust. They all seem to have these for around $1,000. 
        
        
        
        Ken 
        
        
        
        _____ 
        
        From: Charles McCall < < <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> charlesmccall at gmail.com> 
        To: < <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
        Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 5:52 AM 
        Subject: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years? 
        
        
        
        What's the current state of advancement in the fuel injection world? 
        
        
        
        
        
        Has someone perfected a bolt-on system that can substitute a 4bbl carb, 
        
        can be installed in minutes, only requires a couple of wires and an 
        
        exhaust bung, and that's it? 
        
        
        
        
        
        It would automatically map itself by just driving around, and give 
        
        absolutely crisp performance. It wouldn't require fiddling, and would 
        
        work just as well as a carb that's perfectly, absolutely, dead-nuts on. 
        
        
        
        
        
        Oh, and it would cost less than $50. Just kidding, but perhaps under 
        
        $1000 for everything. Anyone have any first-hand experience? 
        
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        Thanks, Ken and Jeff.. partially answering my own question I see 
        FITech, MSD, and Holley all offer systems that appear to be the 
        panacea. 
        
        
        Roughly $1000 for just the unit, or $1200 with a fuel pump and complete 
        installation kit. The reviews for the three seem to be similar - the 
        majority of people are thrilled, but there's a small but consistent 
        minority that had serious problems. Cutting and pasting from reviews: 
        
        " I received 2 defective units that would never sync up to the ECU and 
        my final 3rd Sniper finally did work." 
        
        
        "Quit running after 15 miles 
        
        Summit Racing Summit Racing Verified Purchase 
        
        My car ran beautifully at first then quit. Throttle body is not reading 
        a rpm signal. All connections have been checked. I await return paper 
        work to send the unit back." 
        
        
        Most people are pretty pleased though. Some comments about installation 
        being a little more complicated than promised. Any other firsthand 
        feedback regarding installation on a Pantera? 
        
        
        
        From: Ken Green [ <mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com> mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com] 
        Sent: sabado, 14 de octubre de 2017 18:58 
        To: Charles McCall < <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> charlesmccall at gmail.com>; 
        <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
        Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few 
        years? 
        
        
        I think FAST, Holley, and MSD all have bolt on single 4V throttle body 
        EFIs that practically tune themselves, but you will need am EFI fuel 
        pump and I'm pretty sure a O2 sensor in the exhaust. They all seem to 
        have these for around $1,000. 
        
        
        Ken 
        
        _______________________________________________________________________ 
        
        From: Charles McCall <[1] <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> charlesmccall at gmail.com> 
        To: [2] <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
        Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 5:52 AM 
        Subject: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years? 
        
        
        What's the current state of advancement in the fuel injection world? 
        
        
        
        Has someone perfected a bolt-on system that can substitute a 4bbl 
        carb, 
        
        can be installed in minutes, only requires a couple of wires and an 
        
        exhaust bung, and that's it? 
        
        
        
        It would automatically map itself by just driving around, and give 
        
        absolutely crisp performance. It wouldn't require fiddling, and would 
        
        work just as well as a carb that's perfectly, absolutely, dead-nuts 
        on. 
        
        
        
        Oh, and it would cost less than $50. Just kidding, but perhaps under 
        
        $1000 for everything. Anyone have any first-hand experience? 
        
        _______________________________________________ 
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