[DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years?

jgkrenton at comcast.net jgkrenton at comcast.net
Tue Oct 17 23:19:33 EDT 2017


Charlie/Bill: 

Just stumbled over this: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sQJPZYSoUI 

Holley Carb VS Holley Throttle Body EFI on the dyno... 

For your continued amusement. 

Jeff 2467 


----- Original Message -----

From: "Charles McCall" <charlesmccall at gmail.com> 
To: bill at incendium.com, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 10:46:58 AM 
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years? 

Fair question. There’s nothing inherently wrong with a carburetor after all… 

It’s a very long answer, but the Reader’s Digest version is the following. I bought my Holley from a Pantera vendor many moons ago and it ran horribly on my car. It was supposed to be set up “for a Pantera”, but thinking about that, what is a Pantera engine? A stock, low compression ’74 with all the smog stuff installed? A ’71 high compression engine? A 408 stroker? There’s no way one carb could be set up to handle all those situations. And out of the box, on my particular engine it stumbled all over itself and ran very poorly. 



So I ordered a complete set of jets and started there. Again summarizing the story, after swapping jets for weeks and weeks on end, things improved but still weren’t “right”. So I sent my carb off to a carb specialist who, armed with all the data regarding my engine, blueprinted, flowed, and rebuilt it. When it came back it worked very, very well. 



But I think it could work better. Mike Drew has made a pointed comment or two about the fact that it’s hard to follow me due to the birds falling out of the sky behind me due to CO poisoning… A good friend followed me around at a car event last year and discretely positioned himself in front of me so he could remove his oxygen mask.. The temperature of the planet raises a couple of degrees every time I start the engine in my garage… it appears to be running a shade rich. 



Everyone is different, but I’d rather be driving my car than monkeying with the jets by myself, far from anyone who actually knows what they are doing. In an ideal world, if the EFI works like I’d like it to, it would automatically completely optimize the carburation as opposed to my trial-and-error, or the paper experience of an expert. I’ve been riding my Benelli Sei quite a bit recently, and it is such a fantastic feeling to enjoy a motor that has the carburation dead-nuts-on. The engine just runs soooo well. The Pantera runs well, but I think it could run better. Or at least that doubt would be solved… 



Additionally, I failed emissions testing last year the first time through, and just squeaked by during the retest after cleaning the K&N filter. Not sure if all this is related, but since this carb has been in use for 18 years now, I’ve been thinking of rebuilding it. But instead of rebuilding it, if the EFI works like I hope it does and the price difference isn’t ALL that great…. Maybe? Hence my question. 



From: bill at incendium.com [mailto:bill at incendium.com] 
Sent: sábado, 14 de octubre de 2017 19:21 
To: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>; 'Ken Green' <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years? 



Why change a very good carburetor set up ? 

Luv my 750 DP. 







Cheers 

Bill Moore 

Calgary 



-------- Original message -------- 

From: Charles McCall < <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> charlesmccall at gmail.com> 

Date: 2017-10-14 11:06 AM (GMT-07:00) 

To: 'Ken Green' < <mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com> kenn_green at yahoo.com>, <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 

Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years? 



Thanks, Ken and Jeff.. partially answering my own question I see FITech, MSD, and Holley all offer systems that appear to be the panacea. 



Roughly $1000 for just the unit, or $1200 with a fuel pump and complete installation kit. The reviews for the three seem to be similar – the majority of people are thrilled, but there’s a small but consistent minority that had serious problems. Cutting and pasting from reviews: 

“ I received 2 defective units that would never sync up to the ECU and my final 3rd Sniper finally did work.” 




“Quit running after 15 miles 


Summit Racing Verified Purchase 

My car ran beautifully at first then quit. Throttle body is not reading a rpm signal. All connections have been checked. I await return paper work to send the unit back.” 



Most people are pretty pleased though. Some comments about installation being a little more complicated than promised. Any other firsthand feedback regarding installation on a Pantera? 





From: Ken Green [ <mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com> mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com] 
Sent: sábado, 14 de octubre de 2017 18:58 
To: Charles McCall < <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> charlesmccall at gmail.com>; <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years? 



I think FAST, Holley, and MSD all have bolt on single 4V throttle body EFIs that practically tune themselves, but you will need am EFI fuel pump and I'm pretty sure a O2 sensor in the exhaust. They all seem to have these for around $1,000. 



Ken 



_____ 

From: Charles McCall < < <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> charlesmccall at gmail.com> 
To: < <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 5:52 AM 
Subject: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years? 



What's the current state of advancement in the fuel injection world? 





Has someone perfected a bolt-on system that can substitute a 4bbl carb, 

can be installed in minutes, only requires a couple of wires and an 

exhaust bung, and that's it? 





It would automatically map itself by just driving around, and give 

absolutely crisp performance. It wouldn't require fiddling, and would 

work just as well as a carb that's perfectly, absolutely, dead-nuts on. 





Oh, and it would cost less than $50. Just kidding, but perhaps under 

$1000 for everything. Anyone have any first-hand experience? 

_______________________________________________ 


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Thanks, Ken and Jeff.. partially answering my own question I see 
FITech, MSD, and Holley all offer systems that appear to be the 
panacea. 


Roughly $1000 for just the unit, or $1200 with a fuel pump and complete 
installation kit. The reviews for the three seem to be similar - the 
majority of people are thrilled, but there's a small but consistent 
minority that had serious problems. Cutting and pasting from reviews: 

" I received 2 defective units that would never sync up to the ECU and 
my final 3rd Sniper finally did work." 


"Quit running after 15 miles 

Summit Racing Summit Racing Verified Purchase 

My car ran beautifully at first then quit. Throttle body is not reading 
a rpm signal. All connections have been checked. I await return paper 
work to send the unit back." 


Most people are pretty pleased though. Some comments about installation 
being a little more complicated than promised. Any other firsthand 
feedback regarding installation on a Pantera? 



From: Ken Green [ <mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com> mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com] 
Sent: sabado, 14 de octubre de 2017 18:58 
To: Charles McCall < <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> charlesmccall at gmail.com>; 
<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few 
years? 


I think FAST, Holley, and MSD all have bolt on single 4V throttle body 
EFIs that practically tune themselves, but you will need am EFI fuel 
pump and I'm pretty sure a O2 sensor in the exhaust. They all seem to 
have these for around $1,000. 


Ken 

_______________________________________________________________________ 

From: Charles McCall <[1] <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com> charlesmccall at gmail.com> 
To: [2] <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 5:52 AM 
Subject: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years? 


What's the current state of advancement in the fuel injection world? 



Has someone perfected a bolt-on system that can substitute a 4bbl 
carb, 

can be installed in minutes, only requires a couple of wires and an 

exhaust bung, and that's it? 



It would automatically map itself by just driving around, and give 

absolutely crisp performance. It wouldn't require fiddling, and would 

work just as well as a carb that's perfectly, absolutely, dead-nuts 
on. 



Oh, and it would cost less than $50. Just kidding, but perhaps under 

$1000 for everything. Anyone have any first-hand experience? 

_______________________________________________ 
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References 

1. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com 
2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
3. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
4. <http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 

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-------------- next part --------------
   Charlie/Bill:
   Just stumbled over this:
   [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sQJPZYSoUI
   Holley Carb VS Holley Throttle Body EFI on the dyno...
   For your continued amusement.
   Jeff 2467
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: "Charles McCall" <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   To: bill at incendium.com, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com>,
   detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 10:46:58 AM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few
   years?
   Fair question. Thereas nothing inherently wrong with a carburetor after
   alla|
   Itas a very long answer, but the Readeras Digest version is the
   following. I bought my Holley from a Pantera vendor many moons ago and
   it ran horribly on my car. It was supposed to be set up afor a
   Panteraa, but thinking about that, what is a Pantera engine? A stock,
   low compression a74 with all the smog stuff installed? A a71 high
   compression engine? A 408 stroker? Thereas no way one carb could be set
   up to handle all those situations. And out of the box, on my particular
   engine it stumbled all over itself and ran very poorly.

   So I ordered a complete set of jets and started there. Again
   summarizing the story, after swapping jets for weeks and weeks on end,
   things improved but still werenat arighta. So I sent my carb off to a
   carb specialist who, armed with all the data regarding my engine,
   blueprinted, flowed, and rebuilt it. When it came back it worked very,
   very well.

   But I think it could work better. Mike Drew has made a pointed comment
   or two about the fact that itas hard to follow me due to the birds
   falling out of the sky behind me due to CO poisoninga| A good friend
   followed me around at a car event last year and discretely positioned
   himself in front of me so he could remove his oxygen mask.. The
   temperature of the planet raises a couple of degrees every time I start
   the engine in my garagea|  it appears to be running a shade rich.

   Everyone is different, but Iad rather be driving my car than monkeying
   with the jets by myself, far from anyone who actually knows what they
   are doing. In an ideal world, if the EFI works like Iad like it to, it
   would automatically completely optimize the carburation as opposed to
   my trial-and-error, or the paper experience of an expert. Iave been
   riding my Benelli Sei quite a bit recently, and it is such a fantastic
   feeling to enjoy a motor that has the carburation dead-nuts-on. The
   engine just runs soooo well. The Pantera runs well, but I think it
   could run better. Or at least that doubt would be solveda|

   Additionally, I failed emissions testing last year the first time
   through, and just squeaked by during the retest after cleaning the K&N
   filter. Not sure if all this is related, but since this carb has been
   in use for 18 years now, Iave been thinking of rebuilding it. But
   instead of rebuilding it, if the EFI works like I hope it does and the
   price difference isnat ALL that greata|. Maybe? Hence my question.

   From: bill at incendium.com [mailto:bill at incendium.com]
   Sent: sA!bado, 14 de octubre de 2017 19:21
   To: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>; 'Ken Green'
   <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few
   years?

   Why change a very good carburetor set up ?
   Luv my 750 DP.



   Cheers
   Bill Moore
   Calgary

   -------- Original message --------
   From: Charles McCall < <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   Date: 2017-10-14 11:06 AM (GMT-07:00)
   To: 'Ken Green' < <mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com> kenn_green at yahoo.com>,
    <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few
   years?

   Thanks, Ken and Jeff.. partially answering my own question I see
   FITech, MSD, and Holley all offer systems that appear to be the
   panacea.
   Roughly $1000 for just the unit, or $1200 with a fuel pump and complete
   installation kit. The reviews for the three seem to be similar a the
   majority of people are thrilled, but thereas a small but consistent
   minority that had serious problems. Cutting and pasting from reviews:
   a I received 2 defective units that would never sync up to the ECU and
   my final 3rd Sniper finally did work.a
   aQuit running after 15 miles
   Summit Racing Verified Purchase
   My car ran beautifully at first then quit. Throttle body is not reading
   a rpm signal. All connections have been checked. I await return paper
   work to send the unit back.a
   Most people are pretty pleased though. Some comments about installation
   being a little more complicated than promised. Any other firsthand
   feedback regarding installation on a Pantera?
   From: Ken Green [ <mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com>
   mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
   Sent: sA!bado, 14 de octubre de 2017 18:58
   To: Charles McCall < <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   charlesmccall at gmail.com>;  <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few
   years?
   I think FAST, Holley, and MSD all have bolt on single 4V throttle body
   EFIs that practically tune themselves, but you will need am EFI fuel
   pump and I'm pretty sure a O2 sensor in the exhaust.  They all seem to
   have these for around $1,000.
   Ken
     _____
   From: Charles McCall < < <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com>  <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   To:  < <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 5:52 AM
   Subject: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few years?
     What's the current state of advancement in the fuel injection world?
     Has someone perfected a bolt-on system that can substitute a 4bbl
   carb,
     can be installed in minutes, only requires a couple of wires and an
     exhaust bung, and that's it?
     It would automatically map itself by just driving around, and give
     absolutely crisp performance. It wouldn't require fiddling, and would
     work just as well as a carb that's perfectly, absolutely, dead-nuts
   on.
     Oh, and it would cost less than $50. Just kidding, but perhaps under
     $1000 for everything. Anyone have any first-hand experience?
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   < <mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   <mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   < <http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>
   http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>
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   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.
      Thanks, Ken and Jeff.. partially answering my own question I see
      FITech, MSD, and Holley all offer systems that appear to be the
      panacea.
      Roughly $1000 for just the unit, or $1200 with a fuel pump and
   complete
      installation kit. The reviews for the three seem to be similar - the
      majority of people are thrilled, but there's a small but consistent
      minority that had serious problems. Cutting and pasting from
   reviews:
      " I received 2 defective units that would never sync up to the ECU
   and
      my final 3rd Sniper finally did work."
   "Quit running after 15 miles
      Summit Racing Summit Racing Verified Purchase
      My car ran beautifully at first then quit. Throttle body is not
   reading
      a rpm signal. All connections have been checked. I await return
   paper
      work to send the unit back."
      Most people are pretty pleased though. Some comments about
   installation
      being a little more complicated than promised. Any other firsthand
      feedback regarding installation on a Pantera?
      From: Ken Green [ <mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com>
   mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com]
      Sent: sabado, 14 de octubre de 2017 18:58
      To: Charles McCall < <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   charlesmccall at gmail.com>;
       <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few
      years?
      I think FAST, Holley, and MSD all have bolt on single 4V throttle
   body
      EFIs that practically tune themselves, but you will need am EFI fuel
      pump and I'm pretty sure a O2 sensor in the exhaust.  They all seem
   to
      have these for around $1,000.
      Ken

   _______________________________________________________________________
      From: Charles McCall <[1] <mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   charlesmccall at gmail.com>
      To: [2] <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
      Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 5:52 AM
      Subject: [DeTomaso] How much has EFI advanced over the past few
   years?
        What's the current state of advancement in the fuel injection
   world?
        Has someone perfected a bolt-on system that can substitute a 4bbl
      carb,
        can be installed in minutes, only requires a couple of wires and
   an
        exhaust bung, and that's it?
        It would automatically map itself by just driving around, and give
        absolutely crisp performance. It wouldn't require fiddling, and
   would
        work just as well as a carb that's perfectly, absolutely,
   dead-nuts
      on.
        Oh, and it would cost less than $50. Just kidding, but perhaps
   under
        $1000 for everything. Anyone have any first-hand experience?
      _______________________________________________
      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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   http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
      To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
      use the links above.
      Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   any
      message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
      list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
      or approve the archiving of list messages.
   References
      1. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
      2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
      3. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
      4.  <http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso>
   http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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   use the links above.
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References

   1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sQJPZYSoUI


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