[DeTomaso] Kurt Busch Pantera-- wow!
Julian Kift
julian_kift at hotmail.com
Wed Nov 29 11:48:46 EST 2017
Jeff,
I completely agree, anyone who believes there is any 'reality' in these shows is living in a virtual reality themselves. It's a shame all these car guy TV shows now follow the same mantra with little technical content. The chassis changes were far more extensive than TV coverage alluded to; the engine bulkhead was removed and rebuilt into the roll cage, front trunk front bulkhead and floor removed, drop floor pans installed and one would hope some significant bracing to compensate for removing a good chunk of the chassis rail for the starter.
I came across an article by the guys that built the roll cage, looks like their guy did all the shake down testing in NC for Kurt to jump in at the end. It certainly wasn't portrayed that way on TV and the way the Daytona was passed was pure staging IMO. I'm surprised the Factory Five guys went for it, but some good exposure for the Daytona too, with likely scripted in fuel issues so they have some grace in losing.
http://www.tomlongracing.com/2017/11/20/driving-a-pantera-for-kurt-busch-on-discoverys-fast-n-loud/
I literally cringed when he peeled up the paint and then proceeded with a quick and dirty repair. Like many of these time constrained builds you have to wonder what compromises are made. It kinda reminds me of true movie cars, that are often bare shells or kit cars to look like something else to get the shot.
There's also some sly on air product endorsements presumably for cut price or free goods; PI Motorsports got a mention and a couple others. I had to chuckle at the poor fitment of the chin spoiler although the Monkeys were astute enough not to call out anyone, but you have to think all the Pantera vendor specific parts came from one vendor!
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 8:13 AM
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Kurt Busch Pantera-- wow!
Some thoughts. The Cobra kicked ass thru most of the race but was passed at
the end by the Pantera. As with most reality TV, don't you think that it
had to be staged to let him by.
They got the car from Richard's buddy and partner for $125k. Insider deal
at Kurt's expense? Especially since they claimed they couldn't find a
suitable car for 2 weeks and then they had to do a lot of bodywork to take
care of rust.
Did you see where they cut the frame rail to mount the starter. They cut
out a 6 inch side of the rail.
What do you think happens when you shorten the lower A-arm to keep the rear
tire from rubbing?
You gotta wonder how long that paint job is going to hold up. Seeing it
peel at the corner of the bonnet can't be good.
Lastly, I think they said they were going to run Nascar cars on this road
course next year. Sure doesn't seem like an appropriate track design for
those cars.
Jeff
6559
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 3:00 PM, JFFR <pantera at vtc.net> wrote:
> Not a big fan of just because he paid for it it is just fine to ruin an
> almost perfect example of a limited piece of art. Are you ok with some
> one buying a Van Gogh and painting dogs playing poker over the panting
> ? Couldn't care less about the devaluation or increased value of his
> car or the markee. To me it is a complete waste of destroying something
> that can never be recreated to make something else out of it rather
> than having the creatively and passion to creating something new.
> The Kurt Bush Pantera isn't the first Pantera that was turned into a
> race car. I agree that taking a nice car and doing that to it doesn't
> make sense, but it was still his car and his money. If the car had been
> a junker, then I think there would be less concern about what he did. A
> Pantera certainly isn't a Van Gogh and through the years many cars have
> been upgraded and modified. Certainly not to the degree that the Bush
> car was, but changed never the less. I for one drive my Pantera quite a
> bit and have for the last 40 years. Some of the things that I don't
> want to go back to is standing on my head to change ignition points, an
> electrical system that never really worked right, a totally gut less
> engine and gauges that were only a guideline of what was actually going
> on. Then there were the original Ariva tires that the car came with.
> That was a driving experience that I never want to visit again! The
> list actually is longer, but the long term Pantera owner's basically
> know what the issues are. The bottom line is that people change these
> cars for better or for worse. Certainly the totally original cars are
> appreciated perhaps more than ever before, but who and where do we say
> what modifications are acceptable and what ones are not?
>
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-------------- next part --------------
Jeff,
I completely agree, anyone who believes there is any 'reality' in these
shows is living in a virtual reality themselves. It's a shame all these
car guy TV shows now follow the same mantra with little technical
content. The chassis changes were far more extensive than TV coverage
alluded to; the engine bulkhead was removed and rebuilt into the roll
cage, front trunk front bulkhead and floor removed, drop floor pans
installed and one would hope some significant bracing to compensate for
removing a good chunk of the chassis rail for the starter.
I came across an article by the guys that built the roll cage, looks
like their guy did all the shake down testing in NC for Kurt to jump
in at the end. It certainly wasn't portrayed that way on TV and the way
the Daytona was passed was pure staging IMO. I'm surprised the Factory
Five guys went for it, but some good exposure for the Daytona too, with
likely scripted in fuel issues so they have some grace in losing.
[1]http://www.tomlongracing.com/2017/11/20/driving-a-pantera-for-kurt-b
usch-on-discoverys-fast-n-loud/
I literally cringed when he peeled up the paint and then proceeded
with a quick and dirty repair. Like many of these time constrained
builds you have to wonder what compromises are made. It kinda reminds
me of true movie cars, that are often bare shells or kit cars to look
like something else to get the shot.
There's also some sly on air product endorsements presumably for cut
price or free goods; PI Motorsports got a mention and a couple
others. I had to chuckle at the poor fitment of the chin spoiler
although the Monkeys were astute enough not to call out anyone, but you
have to think all the Pantera vendor specific parts came from one
vendor!
Julian
__________________________________________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 8:13 AM
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Kurt Busch Pantera-- wow!
Some thoughts. The Cobra kicked ass thru most of the race but was
passed at
the end by the Pantera. As with most reality TV, don't you think that
it
had to be staged to let him by.
They got the car from Richard's buddy and partner for $125k. Insider
deal
at Kurt's expense? Especially since they claimed they couldn't find a
suitable car for 2 weeks and then they had to do a lot of bodywork to
take
care of rust.
Did you see where they cut the frame rail to mount the starter. They
cut
out a 6 inch side of the rail.
What do you think happens when you shorten the lower A-arm to keep the
rear
tire from rubbing?
You gotta wonder how long that paint job is going to hold up. Seeing it
peel at the corner of the bonnet can't be good.
Lastly, I think they said they were going to run Nascar cars on this
road
course next year. Sure doesn't seem like an appropriate track design
for
those cars.
Jeff
6559
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 3:00 PM, JFFR <pantera at vtc.net> wrote:
> Not a big fan of just because he paid for it it is just fine to
ruin an
> almost perfect example of a limited piece of art. Are you ok with
some
> one buying a Van Gogh and painting dogs playing poker over the
panting
> ? Couldn't care less about the devaluation or increased value of
his
> car or the markee. To me it is a complete waste of destroying
something
> that can never be recreated to make something else out of it
rather
> than having the creatively and passion to creating something new.
> The Kurt Bush Pantera isn't the first Pantera that was turned into
a
> race car. I agree that taking a nice car and doing that to it
doesn't
> make sense, but it was still his car and his money. If the car had
been
> a junker, then I think there would be less concern about what he
did. A
> Pantera certainly isn't a Van Gogh and through the years many cars
have
> been upgraded and modified. Certainly not to the degree that the
Bush
> car was, but changed never the less. I for one drive my Pantera
quite a
> bit and have for the last 40 years. Some of the things that I
don't
> want to go back to is standing on my head to change ignition
points, an
> electrical system that never really worked right, a totally gut
less
> engine and gauges that were only a guideline of what was actually
going
> on. Then there were the original Ariva tires that the car came
with.
> That was a driving experience that I never want to visit again!
The
> list actually is longer, but the long term Pantera owner's
basically
> know what the issues are. The bottom line is that people change
these
> cars for better or for worse. Certainly the totally original cars
are
> appreciated perhaps more than ever before, but who and where do we
say
> what modifications are acceptable and what ones are not?
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
[3]DeTomaso Info Page
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This is the DeTomaso mailing list, a free and open forum for the
discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
unmoderated mailing list ...
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
> the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
References
1. http://www.tomlongracing.com/2017/11/20/driving-a-pantera-for-kurt-busch-on-discoverys-fast-n-loud/
2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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