[DeTomaso] Campi Wheels 10 x 15
Tomas Gunnarsson
guson at home.se
Thu Mar 30 03:23:42 EDT 2017
Jack,
Do you have a link to the Vredestein tires? I had not heard of them and
I'm on my last set of 295/50 rear tires currently and want to know the
market.
Tomas
<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
From: Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso
[detomaso at server.detomasolist.com]
Sent: 27/3/2017 7:44:32 PM
To: patrickhals at gmail.com;detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Cc:
marc.devis at rmd.be;silvia.framba at marvic.it;gdt2860 at gmail.com;MikeLDrew at ao
l.com;rgg at gregorycook.com;tipo874a at msn.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campi Wheels 10 x 15
To accompany Pat's excellent post on new 10" x 15" magnesium wheels,
note that today, Vreldstein in Holland, Avon in England and Hoosier in
the U.S. all produce 295-50-x 15" road-legal tires (occasionally,
Pirelli). All are at least V-rated and none are cheap but thats to be
expected. Note also that for semi-pro racing on the original Gr-3 and
GR-4/GT-4 Panteras, 285-50x 15"s were specified by DeTomaso with those
wheels because that was the widest possible treaded tire at that time.
If 295s had been available, they would have used them!
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Cc: MARVIC - Silvia Framba <silvia.framba at marvic.it>; Marc Devis
<marc.devis at rmd.be>; Guy & Denise Trigaux <gdt2860 at gmail.com>; Mike Drew
<MikeLDrew at aol.com>; Gray Gregory <rgg at gregorycook.com>; L GRAY
<tipo874a at msn.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 27, 2017 10:30 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Campi Wheels 10 x 15
I have read with great interest, all the posts about the 10x15 DT rear
wheels.
I immediately and sincerely apologize for non responding to everyone
who posted about this topic, just because I cannot properly use the
forum .A
I own two original 10 inch sets coming from my GTS's, but I have
recently ordered one new extra set ( long ribs ) from Marvic.
Why ?
I have been closely working with Marvic for the last three years, after
trying to identify a reliable manufacturer , preferably in the EU ( for
tax and customs reasons ) who would accept to replicate my original
1972 "Candy" original GR4 factory wheels in small quantities. A
Racing Candy in the Mulsanne straight is one of my most thrilling
experiences ever, and I just wished I had 200 HP more... ( Candy has
588 HP ) But thinking that one of those 45 years old wheels could
explode in the straight or when braking is something you just don't
want to think about, because you'll be a lonely passenger for an
eternity before seriously crashing. Ask Adrian Newey who broke a wheel
on his GT40 in the Mulsanne straight at LMC a couple of years ago...
The car was totally wrecked, and Adrian miraculously survived without
being injured . Period. A
Identifying a reliable manufacturer had been my quest for 5 or 6 years,
without success, when I first raced the Warhol Pantera at Le Mans
Classic in 2006 for the first time, and then Candy in 2008 .A
I also met in 2009 or 2010 ( don't remember exactly ) with Cesare
Magistrali, who took me to another foundry in the same area ( close to
Lago di Como in Northern Italy ). Incidentally, I met with George
Clooney there in a bar ( he lives in the area ) and I must say very
honestly that his coffee is better than mine ! The foundry was fine (
they were building the huge toothed wheels that were going to be used
in the Gulf of Mexico oil spills. Each " wheel" was divided in four
equal elements, that were about 10 meters radius.... Talking about huge
and heavy steel wheels !A
When I came back from Italy after a long and painful meeting with
Cesare and his associate, I knew I was wasting time. Cesare asked me
50.000 euros to sell me the "original" sketches of plans of the
Campagnolo GR4 wheels...
This is to tell you that this search was not an easy one. In 2013, my
quest was highly facilitated by my good friend Marc Devis, who is the
owner of 2872, and a great De Tomaso fan . Marc knew Marvic, and
introduced me to them. I flew to Milano, rented a car and went to the
factory where I met with Pier , the owner, and Silvia, the export
manager.
Marvic knew Cesare, and strangely, had the original sketches of plans,
for which they asked me nothing. Talking about a good start ! They
wanted to start the GR4 wheels production ASAP, with top tooling and
top skills. Marvic is producing ONLY magnesium components , for the
biggest racing manufacturers in motorbikes , endurance racing,
seatbelts, BBS, Onroak racing ...A
They agreed to start with a production of 5 sets only ( 10 and 14 x 15
). Marc immediately committed himself to buy two sets for 2872 , and I
bought the remaining three sets to complete the first batch.A Before
starting the molds, Marvic and I agreed that they would check my Candy
wheels to see if they were still OK ( they were ) and most of all, to
check the adequacy of the plans with the wheels. It was. I requested
that an anti slip band was created inside the wheel ( unnoticeable when
the wheel is mounted) A , to prevent the tire from rotating on the
wheel when accelerating flat out. If you don't understand why, I invite
you to check the unpleasant result on the attached photo at Le Mans
2008 with Candy with the original wheels ( no anti slip band ) The
brand new tire has been living for less than 5 minutes on the track.
The other two pics are a bonus !A
I must say that the result is better than expected, and I trust Marvic
for delivering top quality wheels, and super efficient after sale
service.
Since then , we have been working " hand in hand" for De Tomaso GR4
wheels, and they regularly sell some sets to new owners.A
I didn't believe that the production of 10 inch wheels would be
comparable to GR4 wheels in terms of production, and I did not follow
the elaboration of the replica as closely as the GR4's. A
Yet, I have recently ordered a set, because they are conform with
original, and they are new and garanteed for two years. I will feel
safer when going flat out in Spa. How much is your life worth when it
comes to exploding a wheel when flat out on the highway or on a race
track ? What if you kill someone , or your passenger , or a child, or
yourself ( this being the least of the potential damage ) A ?A
As Mike and Julian said, there might be some really minor differences
between the original and the replica, but one more time, if you car is
not intended to be a trailer queen, what does it matter ?A
They are not badged as " Campagnolo" either , because doing this would
be equivalent to create a fake. There is just no sign on the outer rim.
feel free to add a set of Campagnolo stickers by yourself if you want !
several vendors sell tham cheap .A
Each wheel is identified with a batch number for the garantee, on the
inner side of the wheel ( unnoticeable from the outside)
The price is expensive, but old wheels are even more expensive , ( when
and if you can find them ) and they could be dangerous.A
For me, the choice is easy !A
I gladly add that my contribution is NOT financed in any way, by Marvic
! It is just spontaneaous, and I thank Pier and Silvia for having taken
the risk after Marc Devis introduced me to them.
Best to all , be careful !A
Pat A
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-------------- next part --------------
Jack,
Do you have a link to the Vredestein tires? I had not heard of them and
I'm on my last set of 295/50 rear tires currently and want to know the
market.
Tomas
<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
From: Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso [detomaso at server.detomasolist.com]
Sent: 27/3/2017 7:44:32 PM
To: patrickhals at gmail.com;detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Cc:
marc.devis at rmd.be;silvia.framba at marvic.it;gdt2860 at gmail.com;MikeLDrew at a
ol.com;rgg at gregorycook.com;tipo874a at msn.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Campi Wheels 10 x 15
To accompany Pat's excellent post on new 10" x 15" magnesium wheels,
note that today, Vreldstein in Holland, Avon in England and Hoosier in
the U.S. all produce 295-50-x 15" road-legal tires (occasionally,
Pirelli). All are at least V-rated and none are cheap but thats to be
expected. Note also that for semi-pro racing on the original Gr-3 and
GR-4/GT-4 Panteras, 285-50x 15"s were specified by DeTomaso with those
wheels because that was the widest possible treaded tire at that time.
If 295s had been available, they would have used them!
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick HALS <patrickhals at gmail.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Cc: MARVIC - Silvia Framba <silvia.framba at marvic.it>; Marc Devis
<marc.devis at rmd.be>; Guy & Denise Trigaux <gdt2860 at gmail.com>; Mike
Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; Gray Gregory <rgg at gregorycook.com>; L GRAY
<tipo874a at msn.com>
Sent: Mon, Mar 27, 2017 10:30 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Campi Wheels 10 x 15
I have read with great interest, all the posts about the 10x15 DT rear
wheels.
I immediately and sincerely apologize for non responding to everyone
who posted about this topic, just because I cannot properly use the
forum .A
I own two original 10 inch sets coming from my GTS's, but I have
recently ordered one new extra set ( long ribs ) from Marvic.
Why ?
I have been closely working with Marvic for the last three years, after
trying to identify a reliable manufacturer , preferably in the EU ( for
tax and customs reasons ) who would accept to replicate my original
1972 "Candy" original GR4 factory wheels in small quantities. A
Racing Candy in the Mulsanne straight is one of my most thrilling
experiences ever, and I just wished I had 200 HP more... ( Candy has
588 HP ) But thinking that one of those 45 years old wheels could
explode in the straight or when braking is something you just don't
want to think about, because you'll be a lonely passenger for an
eternity before seriously crashing. Ask Adrian Newey who broke a wheel
on his GT40 in the Mulsanne straight at LMC a couple of years ago...
The car was totally wrecked, and Adrian miraculously survived without
being injured . Period. A
Identifying a reliable manufacturer had been my quest for 5 or 6 years,
without success, when I first raced the Warhol Pantera at Le Mans
Classic in 2006 for the first time, and then Candy in 2008 .A
I also met in 2009 or 2010 ( don't remember exactly ) with Cesare
Magistrali, who took me to another foundry in the same area ( close to
Lago di Como in Northern Italy ). Incidentally, I met with George
Clooney there in a bar ( he lives in the area ) and I must say very
honestly that his coffee is better than mine ! The foundry was fine (
they were building the huge toothed wheels that were going to be used
in the Gulf of Mexico oil spills. Each " wheel" was divided in four
equal elements, that were about 10 meters radius.... Talking about huge
and heavy steel wheels !A
When I came back from Italy after a long and painful meeting with
Cesare and his associate, I knew I was wasting time. Cesare asked me
50.000 euros to sell me the "original" sketches of plans of the
Campagnolo GR4 wheels...
This is to tell you that this search was not an easy one. In 2013, my
quest was highly facilitated by my good friend Marc Devis, who is the
owner of 2872, and a great De Tomaso fan . Marc knew Marvic, and
introduced me to them. I flew to Milano, rented a car and went to the
factory where I met with Pier , the owner, and Silvia, the export
manager.
Marvic knew Cesare, and strangely, had the original sketches of plans,
for which they asked me nothing. Talking about a good start ! They
wanted to start the GR4 wheels production ASAP, with top tooling and
top skills. Marvic is producing ONLY magnesium components , for the
biggest racing manufacturers in motorbikes , endurance racing,
seatbelts, BBS, Onroak racing ...A
They agreed to start with a production of 5 sets only ( 10 and 14 x 15
). Marc immediately committed himself to buy two sets for 2872 , and I
bought the remaining three sets to complete the first batch.A Before
starting the molds, Marvic and I agreed that they would check my Candy
wheels to see if they were still OK ( they were ) and most of all, to
check the adequacy of the plans with the wheels. It was. I requested
that an anti slip band was created inside the wheel ( unnoticeable when
the wheel is mounted) A , to prevent the tire from rotating on the
wheel when accelerating flat out. If you don't understand why, I invite
you to check the unpleasant result on the attached photo at Le Mans
2008 with Candy with the original wheels ( no anti slip band ) The
brand new tire has been living for less than 5 minutes on the track.
The other two pics are a bonus !A
I must say that the result is better than expected, and I trust Marvic
for delivering top quality wheels, and super efficient after sale
service.
Since then , we have been working " hand in hand" for De Tomaso GR4
wheels, and they regularly sell some sets to new owners.A
I didn't believe that the production of 10 inch wheels would be
comparable to GR4 wheels in terms of production, and I did not follow
the elaboration of the replica as closely as the GR4's. A
Yet, I have recently ordered a set, because they are conform with
original, and they are new and garanteed for two years. I will feel
safer when going flat out in Spa. How much is your life worth when it
comes to exploding a wheel when flat out on the highway or on a race
track ? What if you kill someone , or your passenger , or a child, or
yourself ( this being the least of the potential damage ) A ?A
As Mike and Julian said, there might be some really minor differences
between the original and the replica, but one more time, if you car is
not intended to be a trailer queen, what does it matter ?A
They are not badged as " Campagnolo" either , because doing this would
be equivalent to create a fake. There is just no sign on the outer rim.
feel free to add a set of Campagnolo stickers by yourself if you want !
several vendors sell tham cheap .A
Each wheel is identified with a batch number for the garantee, on the
inner side of the wheel ( unnoticeable from the outside)
The price is expensive, but old wheels are even more expensive , ( when
and if you can find them ) and they could be dangerous.A
For me, the choice is easy !A
I gladly add that my contribution is NOT financed in any way, by Marvic
! It is just spontaneaous, and I thank Pier and Silvia for having taken
the risk after Marc Devis introduced me to them.
Best to all , be careful !A
Pat A
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
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