[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 156, Issue 24

[Owen Cooke]

Mike

that is an amazing report on that car and good reading for me as i am 
new to panteras.

My car is well sorted now for my purposes

the cooling was a problem but now well sorted having unplugged the 
blancking plate under the  thermostat , fitted new stat, new rad and 
look alike pusher fans wired directly that fitted the brackets , new 260 
deg guage and sender  and redone all the pipes - it has the bleed pipe 
from top or rad to swirltank.

750 holley , alum manifold , 4.v heads , 4 bolt mains , new racing oil 
pan , brakes redone as standard calipers and rotors ,

it revs through 2nd and third and fourth to the red line at 6000 
smoothly , havent the guts to try it in 5th - or the road to do on ?

My only concern is that my fuel tank is not in great condition and the 
exhausts headers run very close to this with only the short firewall between

i have out in  a racing fixed extinguisher with several jets on it but i 
am still nervous

what is best solution to take exhaust pipes further away from tank , or 
am i being too cautious ??

i really enjoy this car  having only had itialian engine exotics before now

your advice on the fire risk would be welcome

many thanks  owen cooke dublin


On 28/06/2017 17:00, detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>     1. Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 156, Issue 22 (laurieferrari at aol.com)
>     2. Re: Tire stories (laurieferrari at aol.com)
>     3. Re: release stuck ignition key? (Mike Drew)
>     4. Re: release stuck ignition key? (Ken Green)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:21:37 -0400
> From: laurieferrari at aol.com
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 156, Issue 22
> Message-ID: <15ceb007f42-2cee-1dc0 at webprd-a83.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Good Lord, spent all morning, several mugs of coffee, and breakfast while reading and digesting Mike's review. The review, in itself, might be worth more than the car! Going out now to check my own against this checklist and practice backing out of my driveway without embarrassing myself although my idle is fine and there's no limit to my rpm's once I get started. Not hitting my other cars, and ensuring i go down the narrow driveway 'exactly' in the center without hitting the low panels on the curbs, that's my challenge.
> Happy Days!
> Laurie
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 16:39:09 -0400
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com, admin at detomasoregistry.org
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Review--1974 Pantera L for sale
> Message-ID: <4cb78.16b59d7f.4681796c at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> All,
>
> Yesterday I was afforded the opportunity to fully evaluate a late 1974
> Pantera L that is currently for sale at Fantasy Junction, the well-known
> purveyor of fine motor cars, in Emeryville, CA (just across the Bay Bridge from San
> Francisco).   Here is a link to the description of the car with many, many
> photos:
>
> http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/1982-DeTomaso%20-Pantera%20L-351%20c.i.%20Cl
> eveland%20V-8
>
> I have passing familiarity with this car, as I worked on it briefly (and
> when I say 'worked on it', what I mean is that I changed the light bulbs in
> the speedometer and tachometer, and that's all) and got the opportunity to
> drive it two or three years ago.   At that time, the original headliner was
> flapping down, and it had carburetor issues, but it seemed to be a
> fundamentally good car.   I gave the owner a list of 'to do' items and promised to come
> look at it again in more detail once he had finished the repairs, but we
> never managed to get together again.
>
> The owner at the time was named Ken Painter.   The car had belonged to his
> father, and clearly he had been passionate about it.   Ken inherited it, and
> confessed to having only a passing interest in it.   He attended a few club
> events, but clearly his heart wasn't in it, and he said he planned to sell
> it.
>
> He attempted to market it locally through an ad in the Pantera Club of
> Northern California newsletter, but most of the members of the club already have
> Panteras, so although he got a few nibbles, he got no bites. He
> eventually sold it through Fantasy Junction to a speculative buyer.   That fellow now
> technically owns the car, but he has decided to sell it so Fantasy Junction
> is marketing it for him.
>
> The car was originally painted the horrid Army Tank Green color found on
> (thankfully few) L-model Panteras, but at some point in its life, it was
> repainted a nice shade of silver, and at that time the chrome trim was all
> blacked out.   It spent its early years in Florida, which is automatically
> worrisome due to the high humidity and potential for rust, but its latter life was
> spent in California, where it was used very sparingly.
>
> It recently was the subject of an obscenely overpriced engine overhaul, and
> the new motor is just barely broken in, with a thousand miles or so on it.
>
> Upon arriving at Fantasy Junction, I found the car parked on their
> four-post lift, which affords an excellent opportunity to inspect the underside.   I
> immediately zoomed in to the rear portion of the chassis, where rust can
> take hold and be extremely expensive and labor-intensive to repair.   Repeated
> whacks with a hammer and pointed punch revealed that structurally, the car
> is absolutely rock-solid.   Despite the fact that owner-added drain holes
> (so necessary in these cars) were never created, nevertheless the chassis is
> quite stout.
>
> The suspension has been fitted with top-of-the-line adjustable Koni
> coil-over shocks and Hypercoil springs.   The extensive corrosion on the ride
> height adjustment collars indicates that they are very old, and changing their
> settings would require a lot of work to free up the adjusters.   Having said
> that, these are a 'set and forget' component, and there would be no reason
> (other than cosmetics) to deal with them.   (On my test drive, they worked
> exceptionally well, delivering a firm but comfortable ride).
>
> The right-side upright has been fitted with grease fittings for the lower
> shaft, while the left-side doesn't have them.
>
> The car has a stock-sized aftermarket rear chrome sway bar, but the chrome
> is pitted with surface rust.   The sway bar bushings appear to be original,
> and are largely perished.   The single best improvement one can make to a
> Pantera, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, is to upgrade from the stock 3/4 inch
> rear sway bar to the Euro GTS-specification 7/8 inch bar.   Given that this
> car's existing components are both in a somewhat tired state, this is a $200
> investment I would make right away (although it's not strictly 'necessary').
>
> The engine appears to be completely tight and absent of any leaks (as it
> should be considering it's new), while there is a tiny drop of oil leaking
> from the transaxle drain plug.   I don't know how fresh the transaxle fluid is,
> but I suspect it's been changed recently.   Perhaps a bit of tightening on
> the plug would fix the leak; if not, removing it and wrapping with Teflon
> tape should do the trick.   (At that time, a decision could be made to refill
> with the existing oil if it's fresh, or replace it--it requires about 7
> pints of GL-5 80w90 gearbox oil).
>
> It has become customary to fit a ?DETOMASO? logo plaque to the rear of the
> chassis in between the inner sway bar mounts.   These cast aluminum plaques
> were originally fitted to the valve covers on the 1971-72 Panteras and were
> held in place with glue; after the first one fell off, usually owners put
> the remaining one at the rear of the chassis, where it happens to fit
> perfectly.   It also disguises damage to the lip on the back of the chassis rail
> caused by incautious jacking.   This car has evidence that it had this plaque
> at one time (in the form of a pair of screw holes), but the plaque has
> disappeared, and the lip is a little bit wrinkled.   This is another trivial
> cosmetic issue, easily resolved with hammer and dolly work, and the plaques are
> readily available and not very expensive if one wanted to follow convention.
>
> There is evidence of sloppy cosmetic work, as the cast aluminum gearbox
> mounts are partially covered in black overspray, likely from a rattle-can
> touch-up of the underside chassis.   A bit of time with a rag and laquer thinner
> would go a long way there.
>
> While looking up, I was surprised to see that the removable fiberglass
> trunk was broken, with a big crack in it. This is invisible from above, but
> suggests it was subjected to carrying an extreme load at one point.
> Fortunately this is extremely easy to fix, and it is completely invisible normally.
>
> The clutch has been equipped with a braided stainless steel flex hose,
> replacing the awful red plastic hose that came from the factory.   This is an
> excellent (and I would say mandatory) upgrade.
>
> I was surprised and pleased to find that the car had been equipped with
> Wilwood four-piston brake calipers on all four corners.   The stock rear
> calipers have been retained for their parking brake function only.   The Wilwood
> calipers are their larger Superlite II model, but the car uses stock,
> unvented rotors.  (Vented rotors are readily available and not overly expensive
> should an owner decide to upgrade).   Naturally, the ancient rubber hoses have
> been replaced with braided stainless steel/Teflon hoses as part of the
> caliper upgrade.
>
> As part of the system, the stock master cylinder has been replaced with a
> Ford SVO aluminum unit with an adapter bracket from Pantera Performance
> Center.   It has Wilwood 2psi residual pressure valves plumbed into the system,
> which prevents the caliper pistons from migrating back into the calipers,
> which could produce a 'long' brake pedal on the first application.   They still
> sell this whole brake system as a complete kit.
>
> Proceeding forward, I could see that the original water pipes are still
> present, and have surface rust.   There is no indication of any water leak, but
> if the cooling system is serviced (more on that in a moment) it makes sense
> to replace them with new stainless steel pipes.   (I recently worked on a
> similar low-mileage Pantera whose pipes were visually in the same shape; when
> I removed them they crumbled in my hands at the ends where they mated with
> the rubber hoses--although they weren't leaking either, a leak was not long
> in coming).
>
> The front valance is a little bit wavy at the bottom and has surface rust
> on it, but is undented.   This is a structural location, and either ambient
> water or water from a leaky radiator can cause this area to rust out, but the
> one on this car seems to be in reasonable shape.
>
> Proceeding to the exterior of the car, I noted that the silver paint
> appeared to be of very high quality, but is starting to show its age.   There are
> certain parts of the body where rust first materializes, which manifests
> itself in bubbling in the paint.   This car has hand-sized areas of obvious
> corrosion on several panels--the lower rear of the left-hand front fender, the
> lower front of the left-hand quarter panel, the rocker panel immediately
> beneath, and the lower front of the right-hand quarter panel.
>
> This is what I would call 'typical' rust on these cars.   It doesn't appear
> to be overly significant and is far from catastrophic.   Someday, somebody
> will repaint this car, and when that happens, at a minimum these areas will
> need to be cut out and new patches installed.   Too, it's likely that there
> is internal rust to the bottom of the B-pillar posts and perhaps the middle
> of the three rocker panels, so those would be attended to at the same time.
>   But if I was to buy this car as a driver, I would comfortably drive it
> as-is for many years to come, and chalk all that up to being a 'someday'
> project.
>
> The right-hand rocker panel has a dent at the rear, but it's easily
> accessed from behind and could be straightened out very, very easily.
>
> The left-hand headlight bucket stands slightly proud of the fender when
> shut.   These are adjusted with various shims etc. and I have no doubt that it
> could be fixed (what might have to happen is that the right-hand bucket
> needs to be raised with shims slightly, then the whole mechanism lowered more so
> they are both closed uniformly).
>
> The car has been fitted with the highly desirable 10-inch rear wheels, and
> the 8-inch wheels formerly living at the rear of the car have been moved to
> the front.   The 10-inch wheels were always a very expensive aftermarket
> option (I paid $900 each for mine in 1989), and now are easily worth $3500 or
> more by themselves.   This is a huge selling point for this car, as they are
> very difficult to find and very desirable.
>
> I didn't note the age of the tires, but they at least have plenty of tread
> left.   It has Yokohama 295/50 in the rear and Falken 225/50 in the front.
>
> The front bumper has been described as 'serviceable' in the ad, and that's
> a very fair characterization, in the sense that if you crashed into
> something, it would do its job.   Cosmetically though, it is in pretty sad shape,
> suffering from numerous scrapes and scuffs, waves, and a very pronounced split
> on the driver's side.   It is possible to repair these bumpers, but enough
> people have chosen to remove them and replace them either with aftermarket
> fiberglass units (the fit of some of those leaves a lot to be desired), or
> ginchy carbon-fiber, and NOS steel and rubber bumpers are still available
> (although pricy).
>
> The rear quarter windows are not installed, but are included with the car
> in a big box of spare and leftover parts.   I would reinstall them right
> away, although I know that many owners prefer to leave them out for the ease of
> cleaning the back window.
>
> The left doorhandle return spring is broken, although the doorhandle still
> works perfectly well.   The latch simply remains proud after the door has
> been opened, but it sits flush when it's closed.
>
> The right-side door frame hits the trim at the top of the B-pillar and has
> scraped the paint away.   (I forgot to check to see if the same is true on
> the driver's side).
>
> Oddly, the backup lights are stuck on; whenever the key is on, they are
> illuminated no matter if the car is in reverse or not. Frequently these
> lights don't function at all; I would suspect that the problem lies with a faulty
> or misadjusted backup light switch, likely easily resolved.
>
> The car is equipped with a Hall Pantera Big Bore exhaust system.   While
> the Hall headers are a good match for stock tailpipes/mufflers, giving a
> noticeable horsepower improvement, the Hall tailpipes/mufflers are aesthetically
> very questionable, and aurally they take away the signature Pantera 'sound'.
>    Rather than sounding like an Italian exotic with a very muscular heart,
> the Hall mufflers make the car sound like an old pickup truck or a speedboat.
>    There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with them, as they are functioning as
> designed (no cracks or leaks or other damage).   But if this was my car, at
> a minimum I would source a good pair of stock tailpipes to return the
> proper Pantera sound; in all likelihood I would just replace the whole system,
> either with the ANSA European GTS setup, or (preferably) the system produced
> by Panteras by Wilkinson, which delivers the cosmetic appearance of the
> factory GTS exhaust, but produces considerably more horsepower (31 hp in a
> back-to-back dyno test) at less cost.
>
> The stock mirrors have been replaced with Vitaloni Baby Bravo mirrors,
> attached to plates glued to the inside of the quarter glass.   During my test
> drive, the passenger-side mirror gave an excellent view of the ground rather
> than traffic to the rear; I confess I forgot to see if it could be adjusted
> properly.
>
> Considering that the engine was rebuilt 1000 miles ago at a cost of $18,000
> (!!!!!), cosmetically it leaves more than a bit to be desired.   The valve
> covers look scruffy, with the black paint peeling off.   The intake manifold
> is stained, evidence of a prior fuel leak.   These items should have been
> taken care of as part of the engine rebuild--a shameful oversight.
> Fortunately it is easy to take care of it now--the valve covers and intake can be
> removed, bead-blasted, and then the valve covers can be masked and painted.
>
> The gearbox also looks a bit 'naff' as the English would say, and would
> benefit from a good scrubbing.
>
> The engine is fitted with an Edelbrock Performer 4V intake manifold (pretty
> much the standard replacement for the stock cast-iron boat anchor), and a
> cheap economy Holley carburetor.   When I drove the car a couple of years
> ago, it had a good performance Holley carb that was in dire need of tuning and
> fettling; instead the prior owner just replaced it with a carb of much lower
> specification.   It is perfectly fine for cruising around, and will likely
> deliver good fuel economy, but the side-pivot floats means that it will cut
> out under very hard cornering.   I would likely be putting this one on
> Craigslist and replacing it with the factory European GTS offering, the Holley
> 4777 650 double-pumper.
>
> The stock air cleaner is installed, but is missing the plastic fresh air
> induction snorkel system, which was fitted to the firewall and drew cool,
> fresh air from beneath the passenger seat.   So the engine is instead inhaling
> ambient air from directly above the exhaust headers on the passenger side.
>
> I forgot to mention that the original decklid shocks are still installed
> (upside down), and are doing a surprisingly good job of keeping the decklid
> open.   Usually by this point, they would have collapsed and been replaced
> with something more generic in appearance.
>
> The stock spare tire is in the rear trunk, although the normally gloss
> black wheel has been rattle-can painted with silver (which is failing).   This
> late car has provisions for a hold-down (a reinforced hole in the bottom of
> the spare tire well at the right rear corner of the trunk), and the factory
> hold-down is inside the box of spare parts.   Given that the spare situation
> was not well thought-out (if you get a flat tire and choose to fit the
> inflatable spare, there is absolutely no place to put the flat tire and wheel,
> and you're not going to just leave them on the side of the road, are you?), I
> would probably detail the wheel to the Nth degree and sell it to a Boss
> Mustang concours nut, as they pay a lot of money for these things.
>
> The complete factory tool kit is included, and while the tools are junk and
> factory jacks have been known to fail, people have paid upwards of $1500
> for a complete tool kit, so it's a nice thing to have.
>
> The decklid catch is sticky and remains stuck open, which could allow the
> decklid to bounce around if it wasn't noticed.   There is a spring inside the
> catch which is not capable of forcing the latch closed as it should; gentle
> thumb pressure causes it to snap shut and then it functions properly
> (securing the decklid).  This could be as simple as adjusting/lubricating it, or
> perhaps the spring inside has broken and needs to be replaced.   An entirely
> new latch can be purchased very inexpensively.
>
> The weatherstripping on the body that seals to the decklid has failed, and
> while it could perhaps be quietly glued together, it should probably be
> replaced.
>
> The single most significant item on any Pantera is its cooling system.
> These cars got a bad rap when they were new for cooling system woes, but by
> the 1974 model year, the cooling system was completely ironed out and they ran
> perfectly.   But 1974 was a long time ago?.
>
> This car is still equipped with a completely original cooling
> system--radiator, fans, pipes etc. are all original, and well past their prime.   I could
> see no evidence of a leak, and hoped that the system was functioning as it
> did in 1974.
>
> I then hopped inside to check out the interior.   The first thing I noticed
> were aftermarket speakers installed in holes cut in the doorpanels; both
> speakers are missing their grilles and thus their guts are on display for all
> to see (and damage).   An Alpine stereo is fitted, which I naturally didn't
> bother to test.
>
> Oddly, the left interior door handle has been 'clocked' incorrectly so it
> sticks up proud; it is on a splined shaft and fixing it is as simple as
> removing the three screws that hold the armrest to the door, then removing the
> single screw that holds the doorhandle in place, reclocking it on the splined
> shaft and reinstalling.
>
> On first glance, the dashboard appears to be in unusually good condition.
> However, it is all artifice, as the stock dashboard is weathered and
> cracked, and has been equipped with a dashboard cap from Hall Pantera.   This cap
> is remarkably well-done, following the contours of the stock dash while
> being just that tiny bit larger.   During installation, all the gauges, vents,
> switches etc. are removed from the stock dash, the cap is installed, and then
> everything is put back in place.   The installation is good overall but is
> dramatically let down by the holes for the two small warning lights to the
> left of the main gauges.   The cap doesn't fit as well as one would hope
> here, and those lights were left installed in the original dash, and big holes
> were gouged in the dash cap so they are visible.   This looks terrible, so
> random rubber plugs were inserted to hide them, which looks only slightly less
> terrible.
>
> The stock steering wheel was replaced with a Lecarra wheel, of an unusually
> small size (likely 12 inches).   This provides more legroom for a taller
> driver, but increases steering effort and compromises visibility of the main
> gauges.   The stock steering wheel was 14 inches (Euro cars were 350mm, or
> 13.7 inches) so I would very quickly unbolt this too-small wheel and replace
> it with a 14-inch Lecarra wheel.
>
> The original window switches were okay when new, but didn't have the
> longevity one would hope for, and its rare to find a car that still has them
> installed and working.   This car has had them replaced with much higher quality
> Bosch switches (the originals are included with the leftover parts), and
> both windows work well.   The driver's window travel is a bit irregular, with a
> tight spot about 3/4 of the way up, but that's not unusual, as adjusting
> the windows on these cars is a bit of a black art.
>
> When I first turned on the key, I heard the A/C clutch engage and the A/C
> fan start up, so at least that appeared to be working.   I turned them off
> and continued testing the electrics.
>
> The generator light is very, very weak when the key is on and the car not
> running.   Normally if a one-wire alternator is fitted, this light is
> brightly lit all the time and needs to be unplugged.   I don't know what kind of
> alternator the car has, nor can I explain why the bulb would glow dimly.
>
> The headlights raised normally, but the left high beam is burned out.   The
> turn signals all work (although I forgot to test the brake lights or
> taillights).   The interior blower fan works, and the turn signal switch still
> functions properly, although the lever has been bent forward so that it is not
> in the correct location and is difficult to reach with your hands on the
> wheel.   Some sympathetic bending would hopefully rectify that.
>
> I forgot to test the horn, which is actuated by the turn signal switch.
>
> The shift gate is in good condition, and the stock shift knob has been
> replaced with an oversized knob from Hall Pantera.   (I prefer the original, and
> hope that it is in good condition and included with the spare parts).
>
> The stock seats have been recovered in the stock pattern, but the vinyl
> center has been replaced with cloth, perhaps a nod to the realities of the
> car's time spent in Florida.
>
> The stock carpets are gone, replaced with generic black carpeting.   The
> carpet on the driver's side has started to fail, and it's wrinkled and easily
> tangles up the feet near the pedals.   At a minimum it needs to be glued
> down, but some good floormats wouldn't go unnoticed (it has none).
>
> A Hall Pantera center console was screwed atop the stock center console.
> While the design is good, the execution leaves a bit to be desired.   The
> plastic is very thin and cheap-feeling, and it squeaks something awful.   If
> it is retained, efforts need to be made to insulate it to stop the squeaking.
>
> The aforementioned stock headliner, which was blowing down when I drove the
> car a few years ago, has been replaced with a non-original, non-matching
> generic headliner--a great disappointment, as it would have been just as easy
> to do it properly.   The installation seems good enough, but why not use the
> original material since it is available if you know where to look?
>
> The sunvisor on the driver's side doesn't stay up as well as one would
> like.   This is down to a minor failure on the mount, which is easily rectified.
>    The mounts are plastic with knurled steel pins pressed in the end; the
> pins are supposed to be stationary while the sunvisor rotates around them.
> In this case, the pins have come free and spin in the plastic housings.   All
> that is necessary is to remove them and use a strong adhesive like Krazy
> Glue to glue the pins in the housings, and all will be well.
>
> The clutch pedal is very light (for a Pantera), expected on a later car
> which came with a revised clutch linkage.   This car has been fitted with an
> aluminum flywheel and modern clutch (likely a Centerforce, I'm guessing).
> The brake pedal is very solid as well.   The car shifts smoothly through the
> gears, although shift effort is rather high, indicating that lubrication of
> the linkage is overdue.
>
> Oh, and the dome light works.
>
> It was finally time for a test drive.
>
> The car started very easily, and the ammeter immediately indicated it was
> charging the battery--good.   I could immediately smell exhaust, suggesting
> that it is overly rich at idle.   The engine was very responsive blipping the
> throttle--that's the aluminum flywheel at work.
>
> The idle is very, very weird.   It has a 500 rpm hunt, back and forth
> between 500 and 1000 rpm every two seconds.   It's almost as though the timing is
> advancing and retarding--it's the only thing I can think of that would
> produce this effect.   (Or a vacuum leak perhaps?)
>
> The light flywheel coupled with the weird idle meant it was very difficult
> to back up the car without stalling the engine.   The only technique that
> seemed to work was to rev the engine to 2000 rpm and then slip the clutch,
> which makes the driver appear as though he's never driven a stick shift before,
> much less a Pantera.  It was embarrassing.   But if I tried to drive it
> conventionally, the clutch 'bite' at 1000 rpm would then result in the engine
> dying when it dropped to 500 rpm.   I suppose I could have learned to follow
> the sine wave and dip the clutch in and out in time to the rpm increase and
> decrease, but it was easier to just rev it and slip the clutch when
> reversing, and more or less dump the clutch and stand on the gas when pulling away
> from a stop (which, I confess, is fun to do anyway).
>
> Within a short time of departing the dealership, I noted the water
> temperature had already risen to an indicated 230 degrees, and it maintained about
> 220-230 while driving down the freeway.   I hoped it was an indication error,
> because it would be worrisome if it was true.
>
> The car feels very taut and solid when driving down the road, which is what
> you would expect from a car whose mileage is so low, fitted with Koni
> shocks.   The steering was fine, with no undue play or pulling to one side.   The
> brakes are excellent (although the solid rotors mean they would likely
> become overwhelmed if the car was subjected to extreme track duty), and the
> engine pulls reasonable well?
>
> ?until 5000 rpm when it suddenly cuts out.   Repeated tests showed that at
> exactly 5000 rpm indicated on the tach, the engine would stutter and
> maintain exactly that rpm and no more, indicating some kind of rev limiter has been
> installed and set unusually low.   Perhaps this was part of the break-in
> process, and it was intended to be set higher afterwards.   I have no idea
> what kind of ignition system is in the car (it was too late to crawl around and
> check), so one hopes this is the explanation.
>
> As long as I remained below 5000 rpm, and above idle, the engine ran great.
>    It isn't especially powerful, although it has considerably more power
> than a stock 1974 Pantera (if I'm honest, a stock 1974 Pantera is a bit of a
> dog thanks to its low compression and smog gear).   I wish I knew what the
> previous owner got for his $18,000 engine rebuild.   Is the engine still fitted
> with the 1974 low-compression cylinder heads?   There's no way of telling
> from the outside.
>
> Suffice it to say that it runs well and delivers exhilarating performance,
> but it is in desperate need of tuning and fettling.
>
> Back at the shop, I let the car sit and idle while I ran around with a
> floor jack.   I'm pleased to report that both rear wheel bearing/axle setups
> were in fine shape, and the steering rack had no discernable play (stock
> steering racks have a bushing that wears out in about 40K miles, so this one has a
> ways to go yet).
>
> I became alarmed when I noticed the temperature gauge getting very close to
> 260 degrees, in the red zone, and one radiator fan hadn't turned on yet.
> Either the gauge was lying or there were serious problems here.   I used a
> hand-held laser temp gun and shot the back side of the radiator, which
> indicated 250 degrees on the side with the non-working fan.
>
> Yikes!
>
> I quickly shut the car down, and was surprised to find that it shut off
> cleanly, showing no signs whatsoever of overheating (no spitting of coolant or
> steam, or gurgling from the pressure tanks).   So while the radiator/fan
> setup is clearly not working properly, it seems the system was well purged of
> air and the tanks and radiator cap are both good.
>
> Afterwards I went into the storeroom and looked at four boxes that come
> with the car; one had a bunch of parts, either old parts that had been taken
> off the car and retained (such as the window switches), or items that were
> purchased but never fitted (like a ?GTS? rear badge, wheel emblems and shift
> knob--evidently somebody considered making this car a GTS clone at some
> point).
>
> Very significantly, the windshield wipers and arms were in this box too.
> The 1974 cars used different wipers which parked on the driver's side
> (halfway up the windscreen, very annoying), and most people remove them and store
> them in the trunk.   These arms are completely impossible to find, and if a
> car is purchased with them absent, there is pretty much no way to render the
> wipers functional.   So the fact these are here is very good news indeed.
>
> Other boxes contained the factory service and part manuals, and a
> collection of club newsletters and magazines stretching back many years.   The last
> box just had generic car-care items, including a small tool kit, wax, rags
> etc.
>
> So what to make of this car then?   Basically, it is being marketed not as
> a perfect concours car or an original survivor, but instead as a good, solid
> driver, which is an accurate assessment, apart from the various mechanical
> niggles that keep the car from just being a turn-key proposition as it
> stands.
>
> Strengths:
>
> Very solid chassis absent of structural rust
> Good silver paint (all the flaws are below the beltline in the black
> painted areas, making them harder to see)
> 10-inch rear wheels
> Freshly rebuilt engine (in need of tuning and perhaps a better carb)
> stronger than stock
> Koni shocks deliver a terrific ride
> Great Wilwood brakes
> Decent-looking interior overall
> No chassis squeaks/groans etc. (just some noise from the plastic center
> console)
> Low mileage
> All factory manuals and many newsletters/magazines included
> Full toolkit with jack (expensive!)
> Electrical items all appear to be working fine
> Nice, light clutch
>
>
> Weaknesses:
>
> Flaws in the paint clearly indicating panel rust, with potential for minor
> structural rust underneath
> Small dent in rocker panel
> Cooling system appears to be shot (needs new radiator, fans, pipes, and
> might as well change the hoses too, which would cost about $1500 in parts)
> Trivial gearbox oil leak
> Rear swaybar/bushings bad (I forgot to check the front, but new bushings
> are cheap)
> Black paint overspray on bare aluminum components
> Engine doesn't present attractively and needs cosmetic attention
> Engine doesn't idle properly
> Ignition cuts out completely at 5000 rpm
> Engine bay to decklid weatherstripping broken
> Dubious Hall exhaust lets the car down aurally and cosmetically
> Carpet is falling apart on driver's side
> Naked speakers in the doors
> Unfortunate choice of non-original headliner
> Backup lights stuck on
> One headlight high beam out
>
> In short, I think this car is a terrific driver that has some very
> desirable features (10-inch wheels, Wilwood brakes, new modern clutch, rebuilt
> engine, really nice silver paint) that is somewhat let down by a host of
> problems, most of them small and very easily sorted, but two of them significant
> enough that I wouldn't be comfortable just jumping in the car and driving it
> away (cooling system woes most importantly, but also the engine idle and high
> rpm cut-out issues.
>
> This is a car that would pay HUGE dividends to the do-it-yourselfer.  None
> of the car's problems (apart from the small areas of sheetmetal rust) are
> difficult to resolve, and it would be very easy to keep improving this car
> over the space of a few weekends.   Replacing the whole cooling system would
> be a big job, requiring the help of some friends to make it more enjoyable,
> and the engine problems will require some detective work, but everything else
> is fairly simple and straightforward.
>
> I would say that the car would be very properly priced if it didn't have
> the many small 'issues' and two larger ones.   As it stands, those issues
> either need to be resolved, or the seller needs to show some financial
> consideration for the buyer who will be left to contend with them before he can
> actually drive and enjoy the car properly.
>
> Depending on how much one values one's time to spend fixing the car (or
> paying a mechanic $$$ to do it), I would say the car is probably worth in the
> region of $65-70K as it stands.   Once its mechanical issues are dealt with,
> for sure it would provide the new owner tremendous enjoyment, and at some
> point in the future, while a new paint job would be a bit more expensive due
> to the need to repair small parts of several panels, it's not going to have
> the serious structural cancer that can quickly drive costs through the roof.
>
> I wish both the seller and the eventual buyer good luck, and hope that this
> car can find a loving home soon!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Mon, Jun 26, 2017 9:05 am
> Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 156, Issue 22
>
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> Daily Detomaso List Digest
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>     1. Review--1974 Pantera L for sale (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>     2. Review--1974 Pantera L for sale (Larry Finch)
>     3. (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia (dgordon100 at cox.net)
>     4. Re: (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia (Ken Green)
>    5. Re: (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia (Scott Couchman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 16:39:09 -0400
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com, admin at detomasoregistry.org
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Review--1974 Pantera L for sale
> Message-ID: <4cb78.16b59d7f.4681796c at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> All,
>
> Yesterday I was afforded the opportunity to fully evaluate a late 1974
> Pantera L that is currently for sale at Fantasy Junction, the well-known
> purveyor of fine motor cars, in Emeryville, CA (just across the Bay Bridge from San
> Francisco).   Here is a link to the description of the car with many, many
> photos:
>
> http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/1982-DeTomaso%20-Pantera%20L-351%20c.i.%20Cl
> eveland%20V-8
>
> I have passing familiarity with this car, as I worked on it briefly (and
> when I say 'worked on it', what I mean is that I changed the light bulbs in
> the speedometer and tachometer, and that's all) and got the opportunity to
> drive it two or three years ago.   At that time, the original headliner was
> flapping down, and it had carburetor issues, but it seemed to be a
> fundamentally good car.   I gave the owner a list of 'to do' items and promised to come
> look at it again in more detail once he had finished the repairs, but we
> never managed to get together again.
>
> The owner at the time was named Ken Painter.   The car had belonged to his
> father, and clearly he had been passionate about it.   Ken inherited it, and
> confessed to having only a passing interest in it.   He attended a few club
> events, but clearly his heart wasn't in it, and he said he planned to sell
> it.
>
> He attempted to market it locally through an ad in the Pantera Club of
> Northern California newsletter, but most of the members of the club already have
> Panteras, so although he got a few nibbles, he got no bites. He
> eventually sold it through Fantasy Junction to a speculative buyer.   That fellow now
> technically owns the car, but he has decided to sell it so Fantasy Junction
> is marketing it for him.
>
> The car was originally painted the horrid Army Tank Green color found on
> (thankfully few) L-model Panteras, but at some point in its life, it was
> repainted a nice shade of silver, and at that time the chrome trim was all
> blacked out.   It spent its early years in Florida, which is automatically
> worrisome due to the high humidity and potential for rust, but its latter life was
> spent in California, where it was used very sparingly.
>
> It recently was the subject of an obscenely overpriced engine overhaul, and
> the new motor is just barely broken in, with a thousand miles or so on it.
>
> Upon arriving at Fantasy Junction, I found the car parked on their
> four-post lift, which affords an excellent opportunity to inspect the underside.   I
> immediately zoomed in to the rear portion of the chassis, where rust can
> take hold and be extremely expensive and labor-intensive to repair.   Repeated
> whacks with a hammer and pointed punch revealed that structurally, the car
> is absolutely rock-solid.   Despite the fact that owner-added drain holes
> (so necessary in these cars) were never created, nevertheless the chassis is
> quite stout.
>
> The suspension has been fitted with top-of-the-line adjustable Koni
> coil-over shocks and Hypercoil springs.   The extensive corrosion on the ride
> height adjustment collars indicates that they are very old, and changing their
> settings would require a lot of work to free up the adjusters.   Having said
> that, these are a 'set and forget' component, and there would be no reason
> (other than cosmetics) to deal with them.   (On my test drive, they worked
> exceptionally well, delivering a firm but comfortable ride).
>
> The right-side upright has been fitted with grease fittings for the lower
> shaft, while the left-side doesn't have them.
>
> The car has a stock-sized aftermarket rear chrome sway bar, but the chrome
> is pitted with surface rust.   The sway bar bushings appear to be original,
> and are largely perished.   The single best improvement one can make to a
> Pantera, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, is to upgrade from the stock 3/4 inch
> rear sway bar to the Euro GTS-specification 7/8 inch bar.   Given that this
> car's existing components are both in a somewhat tired state, this is a $200
> investment I would make right away (although it's not strictly 'necessary').
>
> The engine appears to be completely tight and absent of any leaks (as it
> should be considering it's new), while there is a tiny drop of oil leaking
> from the transaxle drain plug.   I don't know how fresh the transaxle fluid is,
> but I suspect it's been changed recently.   Perhaps a bit of tightening on
> the plug would fix the leak; if not, removing it and wrapping with Teflon
> tape should do the trick.   (At that time, a decision could be made to refill
> with the existing oil if it's fresh, or replace it--it requires about 7
> pints of GL-5 80w90 gearbox oil).
>
> It has become customary to fit a ?DETOMASO? logo plaque to the rear of the
> chassis in between the inner sway bar mounts.   These cast aluminum plaques
> were originally fitted to the valve covers on the 1971-72 Panteras and were
> held in place with glue; after the first one fell off, usually owners put
> the remaining one at the rear of the chassis, where it happens to fit
> perfectly.   It also disguises damage to the lip on the back of the chassis rail
> caused by incautious jacking.   This car has evidence that it had this plaque
> at one time (in the form of a pair of screw holes), but the plaque has
> disappeared, and the lip is a little bit wrinkled.   This is another trivial
> cosmetic issue, easily resolved with hammer and dolly work, and the plaques are
> readily available and not very expensive if one wanted to follow convention.
>
> There is evidence of sloppy cosmetic work, as the cast aluminum gearbox
> mounts are partially covered in black overspray, likely from a rattle-can
> touch-up of the underside chassis.   A bit of time with a rag and laquer thinner
> would go a long way there.
>
> While looking up, I was surprised to see that the removable fiberglass
> trunk was broken, with a big crack in it. This is invisible from above, but
> suggests it was subjected to carrying an extreme load at one point.
> Fortunately this is extremely easy to fix, and it is completely invisible normally.
>
> The clutch has been equipped with a braided stainless steel flex hose,
> replacing the awful red plastic hose that came from the factory.   This is an
> excellent (and I would say mandatory) upgrade.
>
> I was surprised and pleased to find that the car had been equipped with
> Wilwood four-piston brake calipers on all four corners.   The stock rear
> calipers have been retained for their parking brake function only.   The Wilwood
> calipers are their larger Superlite II model, but the car uses stock,
> unvented rotors.  (Vented rotors are readily available and not overly expensive
> should an owner decide to upgrade).   Naturally, the ancient rubber hoses have
> been replaced with braided stainless steel/Teflon hoses as part of the
> caliper upgrade.
>
> As part of the system, the stock master cylinder has been replaced with a
> Ford SVO aluminum unit with an adapter bracket from Pantera Performance
> Center.   It has Wilwood 2psi residual pressure valves plumbed into the system,
> which prevents the caliper pistons from migrating back into the calipers,
> which could produce a 'long' brake pedal on the first application.   They still
> sell this whole brake system as a complete kit.
>
> Proceeding forward, I could see that the original water pipes are still
> present, and have surface rust.   There is no indication of any water leak, but
> if the cooling system is serviced (more on that in a moment) it makes sense
> to replace them with new stainless steel pipes.   (I recently worked on a
> similar low-mileage Pantera whose pipes were visually in the same shape; when
> I removed them they crumbled in my hands at the ends where they mated with
> the rubber hoses--although they weren't leaking either, a leak was not long
> in coming).
>
> The front valance is a little bit wavy at the bottom and has surface rust
> on it, but is undented.   This is a structural location, and either ambient
> water or water from a leaky radiator can cause this area to rust out, but the
> one on this car seems to be in reasonable shape.
>
> Proceeding to the exterior of the car, I noted that the silver paint
> appeared to be of very high quality, but is starting to show its age.   There are
> certain parts of the body where rust first materializes, which manifests
> itself in bubbling in the paint.   This car has hand-sized areas of obvious
> corrosion on several panels--the lower rear of the left-hand front fender, the
> lower front of the left-hand quarter panel, the rocker panel immediately
> beneath, and the lower front of the right-hand quarter panel.
>
> This is what I would call 'typical' rust on these cars.   It doesn't appear
> to be overly significant and is far from catastrophic.   Someday, somebody
> will repaint this car, and when that happens, at a minimum these areas will
> need to be cut out and new patches installed.   Too, it's likely that there
> is internal rust to the bottom of the B-pillar posts and perhaps the middle
> of the three rocker panels, so those would be attended to at the same time.
>   But if I was to buy this car as a driver, I would comfortably drive it
> as-is for many years to come, and chalk all that up to being a 'someday'
> project.
>
> The right-hand rocker panel has a dent at the rear, but it's easily
> accessed from behind and could be straightened out very, very easily.
>
> The left-hand headlight bucket stands slightly proud of the fender when
> shut.   These are adjusted with various shims etc. and I have no doubt that it
> could be fixed (what might have to happen is that the right-hand bucket
> needs to be raised with shims slightly, then the whole mechanism lowered more so
> they are both closed uniformly).
>
> The car has been fitted with the highly desirable 10-inch rear wheels, and
> the 8-inch wheels formerly living at the rear of the car have been moved to
> the front.   The 10-inch wheels were always a very expensive aftermarket
> option (I paid $900 each for mine in 1989), and now are easily worth $3500 or
> more by themselves.   This is a huge selling point for this car, as they are
> very difficult to find and very desirable.
>
> I didn't note the age of the tires, but they at least have plenty of tread
> left.   It has Yokohama 295/50 in the rear and Falken 225/50 in the front.
>
> The front bumper has been described as 'serviceable' in the ad, and that's
> a very fair characterization, in the sense that if you crashed into
> something, it would do its job.   Cosmetically though, it is in pretty sad shape,
> suffering from numerous scrapes and scuffs, waves, and a very pronounced split
> on the driver's side.   It is possible to repair these bumpers, but enough
> people have chosen to remove them and replace them either with aftermarket
> fiberglass units (the fit of some of those leaves a lot to be desired), or
> ginchy carbon-fiber, and NOS steel and rubber bumpers are still available
> (although pricy).
>
> The rear quarter windows are not installed, but are included with the car
> in a big box of spare and leftover parts.   I would reinstall them right
> away, although I know that many owners prefer to leave them out for the ease of
> cleaning the back window.
>
> The left doorhandle return spring is broken, although the doorhandle still
> works perfectly well.   The latch simply remains proud after the door has
> been opened, but it sits flush when it's closed.
>
> The right-side door frame hits the trim at the top of the B-pillar and has
> scraped the paint away.   (I forgot to check to see if the same is true on
> the driver's side).
>
> Oddly, the backup lights are stuck on; whenever the key is on, they are
> illuminated no matter if the car is in reverse or not. Frequently these
> lights don't function at all; I would suspect that the problem lies with a faulty
> or misadjusted backup light switch, likely easily resolved.
>
> The car is equipped with a Hall Pantera Big Bore exhaust system.   While
> the Hall headers are a good match for stock tailpipes/mufflers, giving a
> noticeable horsepower improvement, the Hall tailpipes/mufflers are aesthetically
> very questionable, and aurally they take away the signature Pantera 'sound'.
>    Rather than sounding like an Italian exotic with a very muscular heart,
> the Hall mufflers make the car sound like an old pickup truck or a speedboat.
>    There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with them, as they are functioning as
> designed (no cracks or leaks or other damage).   But if this was my car, at
> a minimum I would source a good pair of stock tailpipes to return the
> proper Pantera sound; in all likelihood I would just replace the whole system,
> either with the ANSA European GTS setup, or (preferably) the system produced
> by Panteras by Wilkinson, which delivers the cosmetic appearance of the
> factory GTS exhaust, but produces considerably more horsepower (31 hp in a
> back-to-back dyno test) at less cost.
>
> The stock mirrors have been replaced with Vitaloni Baby Bravo mirrors,
> attached to plates glued to the inside of the quarter glass.   During my test
> drive, the passenger-side mirror gave an excellent view of the ground rather
> than traffic to the rear; I confess I forgot to see if it could be adjusted
> properly.
>
> Considering that the engine was rebuilt 1000 miles ago at a cost of $18,000
> (!!!!!), cosmetically it leaves more than a bit to be desired.   The valve
> covers look scruffy, with the black paint peeling off.   The intake manifold
> is stained, evidence of a prior fuel leak.   These items should have been
> taken care of as part of the engine rebuild--a shameful oversight.
> Fortunately it is easy to take care of it now--the valve covers and intake can be
> removed, bead-blasted, and then the valve covers can be masked and painted.
>
> The gearbox also looks a bit 'naff' as the English would say, and would
> benefit from a good scrubbing.
>
> The engine is fitted with an Edelbrock Performer 4V intake manifold (pretty
> much the standard replacement for the stock cast-iron boat anchor), and a
> cheap economy Holley carburetor.   When I drove the car a couple of years
> ago, it had a good performance Holley carb that was in dire need of tuning and
> fettling; instead the prior owner just replaced it with a carb of much lower
> specification.   It is perfectly fine for cruising around, and will likely
> deliver good fuel economy, but the side-pivot floats means that it will cut
> out under very hard cornering.   I would likely be putting this one on
> Craigslist and replacing it with the factory European GTS offering, the Holley
> 4777 650 double-pumper.
>
> The stock air cleaner is installed, but is missing the plastic fresh air
> induction snorkel system, which was fitted to the firewall and drew cool,
> fresh air from beneath the passenger seat.   So the engine is instead inhaling
> ambient air from directly above the exhaust headers on the passenger side.
>
> I forgot to mention that the original decklid shocks are still installed
> (upside down), and are doing a surprisingly good job of keeping the decklid
> open.   Usually by this point, they would have collapsed and been replaced
> with something more generic in appearance.
>
> The stock spare tire is in the rear trunk, although the normally gloss
> black wheel has been rattle-can painted with silver (which is failing).   This
> late car has provisions for a hold-down (a reinforced hole in the bottom of
> the spare tire well at the right rear corner of the trunk), and the factory
> hold-down is inside the box of spare parts.   Given that the spare situation
> was not well thought-out (if you get a flat tire and choose to fit the
> inflatable spare, there is absolutely no place to put the flat tire and wheel,
> and you're not going to just leave them on the side of the road, are you?), I
> would probably detail the wheel to the Nth degree and sell it to a Boss
> Mustang concours nut, as they pay a lot of money for these things.
>
> The complete factory tool kit is included, and while the tools are junk and
> factory jacks have been known to fail, people have paid upwards of $1500
> for a complete tool kit, so it's a nice thing to have.
>
> The decklid catch is sticky and remains stuck open, which could allow the
> decklid to bounce around if it wasn't noticed.   There is a spring inside the
> catch which is not capable of forcing the latch closed as it should; gentle
> thumb pressure causes it to snap shut and then it functions properly
> (securing the decklid).  This could be as simple as adjusting/lubricating it, or
> perhaps the spring inside has broken and needs to be replaced.   An entirely
> new latch can be purchased very inexpensively.
>
> The weatherstripping on the body that seals to the decklid has failed, and
> while it could perhaps be quietly glued together, it should probably be
> replaced.
>
> The single most significant item on any Pantera is its cooling system.
> These cars got a bad rap when they were new for cooling system woes, but by
> the 1974 model year, the cooling system was completely ironed out and they ran
> perfectly.   But 1974 was a long time ago?.
>
> This car is still equipped with a completely original cooling
> system--radiator, fans, pipes etc. are all original, and well past their prime.   I could
> see no evidence of a leak, and hoped that the system was functioning as it
> did in 1974.
>
> I then hopped inside to check out the interior.   The first thing I noticed
> were aftermarket speakers installed in holes cut in the doorpanels; both
> speakers are missing their grilles and thus their guts are on display for all
> to see (and damage).   An Alpine stereo is fitted, which I naturally didn't
> bother to test.
>
> Oddly, the left interior door handle has been 'clocked' incorrectly so it
> sticks up proud; it is on a splined shaft and fixing it is as simple as
> removing the three screws that hold the armrest to the door, then removing the
> single screw that holds the doorhandle in place, reclocking it on the splined
> shaft and reinstalling.
>
> On first glance, the dashboard appears to be in unusually good condition.
> However, it is all artifice, as the stock dashboard is weathered and
> cracked, and has been equipped with a dashboard cap from Hall Pantera.   This cap
> is remarkably well-done, following the contours of the stock dash while
> being just that tiny bit larger.   During installation, all the gauges, vents,
> switches etc. are removed from the stock dash, the cap is installed, and then
> everything is put back in place.   The installation is good overall but is
> dramatically let down by the holes for the two small warning lights to the
> left of the main gauges.   The cap doesn't fit as well as one would hope
> here, and those lights were left installed in the original dash, and big holes
> were gouged in the dash cap so they are visible.   This looks terrible, so
> random rubber plugs were inserted to hide them, which looks only slightly less
> terrible.
>
> The stock steering wheel was replaced with a Lecarra wheel, of an unusually
> small size (likely 12 inches).   This provides more legroom for a taller
> driver, but increases steering effort and compromises visibility of the main
> gauges.   The stock steering wheel was 14 inches (Euro cars were 350mm, or
> 13.7 inches) so I would very quickly unbolt this too-small wheel and replace
> it with a 14-inch Lecarra wheel.
>
> The original window switches were okay when new, but didn't have the
> longevity one would hope for, and its rare to find a car that still has them
> installed and working.   This car has had them replaced with much higher quality
> Bosch switches (the originals are included with the leftover parts), and
> both windows work well.   The driver's window travel is a bit irregular, with a
> tight spot about 3/4 of the way up, but that's not unusual, as adjusting
> the windows on these cars is a bit of a black art.
>
> When I first turned on the key, I heard the A/C clutch engage and the A/C
> fan start up, so at least that appeared to be working.   I turned them off
> and continued testing the electrics.
>
> The generator light is very, very weak when the key is on and the car not
> running.   Normally if a one-wire alternator is fitted, this light is
> brightly lit all the time and needs to be unplugged.   I don't know what kind of
> alternator the car has, nor can I explain why the bulb would glow dimly.
>
> The headlights raised normally, but the left high beam is burned out.   The
> turn signals all work (although I forgot to test the brake lights or
> taillights).   The interior blower fan works, and the turn signal switch still
> functions properly, although the lever has been bent forward so that it is not
> in the correct location and is difficult to reach with your hands on the
> wheel.   Some sympathetic bending would hopefully rectify that.
>
> I forgot to test the horn, which is actuated by the turn signal switch.
>
> The shift gate is in good condition, and the stock shift knob has been
> replaced with an oversized knob from Hall Pantera.   (I prefer the original, and
> hope that it is in good condition and included with the spare parts).
>
> The stock seats have been recovered in the stock pattern, but the vinyl
> center has been replaced with cloth, perhaps a nod to the realities of the
> car's time spent in Florida.
>
> The stock carpets are gone, replaced with generic black carpeting.   The
> carpet on the driver's side has started to fail, and it's wrinkled and easily
> tangles up the feet near the pedals.   At a minimum it needs to be glued
> down, but some good floormats wouldn't go unnoticed (it has none).
>
> A Hall Pantera center console was screwed atop the stock center console.
> While the design is good, the execution leaves a bit to be desired.   The
> plastic is very thin and cheap-feeling, and it squeaks something awful.   If
> it is retained, efforts need to be made to insulate it to stop the squeaking.
>
> The aforementioned stock headliner, which was blowing down when I drove the
> car a few years ago, has been replaced with a non-original, non-matching
> generic headliner--a great disappointment, as it would have been just as easy
> to do it properly.   The installation seems good enough, but why not use the
> original material since it is available if you know where to look?
>
> The sunvisor on the driver's side doesn't stay up as well as one would
> like.   This is down to a minor failure on the mount, which is easily rectified.
>    The mounts are plastic with knurled steel pins pressed in the end; the
> pins are supposed to be stationary while the sunvisor rotates around them.
> In this case, the pins have come free and spin in the plastic housings.   All
> that is necessary is to remove them and use a strong adhesive like Krazy
> Glue to glue the pins in the housings, and all will be well.
>
> The clutch pedal is very light (for a Pantera), expected on a later car
> which came with a revised clutch linkage.   This car has been fitted with an
> aluminum flywheel and modern clutch (likely a Centerforce, I'm guessing).
> The brake pedal is very solid as well.   The car shifts smoothly through the
> gears, although shift effort is rather high, indicating that lubrication of
> the linkage is overdue.
>
> Oh, and the dome light works.
>
> It was finally time for a test drive.
>
> The car started very easily, and the ammeter immediately indicated it was
> charging the battery--good.   I could immediately smell exhaust, suggesting
> that it is overly rich at idle.   The engine was very responsive blipping the
> throttle--that's the aluminum flywheel at work.
>
> The idle is very, very weird.   It has a 500 rpm hunt, back and forth
> between 500 and 1000 rpm every two seconds.   It's almost as though the timing is
> advancing and retarding--it's the only thing I can think of that would
> produce this effect.   (Or a vacuum leak perhaps?)
>
> The light flywheel coupled with the weird idle meant it was very difficult
> to back up the car without stalling the engine.   The only technique that
> seemed to work was to rev the engine to 2000 rpm and then slip the clutch,
> which makes the driver appear as though he's never driven a stick shift before,
> much less a Pantera.  It was embarrassing.   But if I tried to drive it
> conventionally, the clutch 'bite' at 1000 rpm would then result in the engine
> dying when it dropped to 500 rpm.   I suppose I could have learned to follow
> the sine wave and dip the clutch in and out in time to the rpm increase and
> decrease, but it was easier to just rev it and slip the clutch when
> reversing, and more or less dump the clutch and stand on the gas when pulling away
> from a stop (which, I confess, is fun to do anyway).
>
> Within a short time of departing the dealership, I noted the water
> temperature had already risen to an indicated 230 degrees, and it maintained about
> 220-230 while driving down the freeway.   I hoped it was an indication error,
> because it would be worrisome if it was true.
>
> The car feels very taut and solid when driving down the road, which is what
> you would expect from a car whose mileage is so low, fitted with Koni
> shocks.   The steering was fine, with no undue play or pulling to one side.   The
> brakes are excellent (although the solid rotors mean they would likely
> become overwhelmed if the car was subjected to extreme track duty), and the
> engine pulls reasonable well?
>
> ?until 5000 rpm when it suddenly cuts out.   Repeated tests showed that at
> exactly 5000 rpm indicated on the tach, the engine would stutter and
> maintain exactly that rpm and no more, indicating some kind of rev limiter has been
> installed and set unusually low.   Perhaps this was part of the break-in
> process, and it was intended to be set higher afterwards.   I have no idea
> what kind of ignition system is in the car (it was too late to crawl around and
> check), so one hopes this is the explanation.
>
> As long as I remained below 5000 rpm, and above idle, the engine ran great.
>    It isn't especially powerful, although it has considerably more power
> than a stock 1974 Pantera (if I'm honest, a stock 1974 Pantera is a bit of a
> dog thanks to its low compression and smog gear).   I wish I knew what the
> previous owner got for his $18,000 engine rebuild.   Is the engine still fitted
> with the 1974 low-compression cylinder heads?   There's no way of telling
> from the outside.
>
> Suffice it to say that it runs well and delivers exhilarating performance,
> but it is in desperate need of tuning and fettling.
>
> Back at the shop, I let the car sit and idle while I ran around with a
> floor jack.   I'm pleased to report that both rear wheel bearing/axle setups
> were in fine shape, and the steering rack had no discernable play (stock
> steering racks have a bushing that wears out in about 40K miles, so this one has a
> ways to go yet).
>
> I became alarmed when I noticed the temperature gauge getting very close to
> 260 degrees, in the red zone, and one radiator fan hadn't turned on yet.
> Either the gauge was lying or there were serious problems here.   I used a
> hand-held laser temp gun and shot the back side of the radiator, which
> indicated 250 degrees on the side with the non-working fan.
>
> Yikes!
>
> I quickly shut the car down, and was surprised to find that it shut off
> cleanly, showing no signs whatsoever of overheating (no spitting of coolant or
> steam, or gurgling from the pressure tanks).   So while the radiator/fan
> setup is clearly not working properly, it seems the system was well purged of
> air and the tanks and radiator cap are both good.
>
> Afterwards I went into the storeroom and looked at four boxes that come
> with the car; one had a bunch of parts, either old parts that had been taken
> off the car and retained (such as the window switches), or items that were
> purchased but never fitted (like a ?GTS? rear badge, wheel emblems and shift
> knob--evidently somebody considered making this car a GTS clone at some
> point).
>
> Very significantly, the windshield wipers and arms were in this box too.
> The 1974 cars used different wipers which parked on the driver's side
> (halfway up the windscreen, very annoying), and most people remove them and store
> them in the trunk.   These arms are completely impossible to find, and if a
> car is purchased with them absent, there is pretty much no way to render the
> wipers functional.   So the fact these are here is very good news indeed.
>
> Other boxes contained the factory service and part manuals, and a
> collection of club newsletters and magazines stretching back many years.   The last
> box just had generic car-care items, including a small tool kit, wax, rags
> etc.
>
> So what to make of this car then?   Basically, it is being marketed not as
> a perfect concours car or an original survivor, but instead as a good, solid
> driver, which is an accurate assessment, apart from the various mechanical
> niggles that keep the car from just being a turn-key proposition as it
> stands.
>
> Strengths:
>
> Very solid chassis absent of structural rust
> Good silver paint (all the flaws are below the beltline in the black
> painted areas, making them harder to see)
> 10-inch rear wheels
> Freshly rebuilt engine (in need of tuning and perhaps a better carb)
> stronger than stock
> Koni shocks deliver a terrific ride
> Great Wilwood brakes
> Decent-looking interior overall
> No chassis squeaks/groans etc. (just some noise from the plastic center
> console)
> Low mileage
> All factory manuals and many newsletters/magazines included
> Full toolkit with jack (expensive!)
> Electrical items all appear to be working fine
> Nice, light clutch
>
>
> Weaknesses:
>
> Flaws in the paint clearly indicating panel rust, with potential for minor
> structural rust underneath
> Small dent in rocker panel
> Cooling system appears to be shot (needs new radiator, fans, pipes, and
> might as well change the hoses too, which would cost about $1500 in parts)
> Trivial gearbox oil leak
> Rear swaybar/bushings bad (I forgot to check the front, but new bushings
> are cheap)
> Black paint overspray on bare aluminum components
> Engine doesn't present attractively and needs cosmetic attention
> Engine doesn't idle properly
> Ignition cuts out completely at 5000 rpm
> Engine bay to decklid weatherstripping broken
> Dubious Hall exhaust lets the car down aurally and cosmetically
> Carpet is falling apart on driver's side
> Naked speakers in the doors
> Unfortunate choice of non-original headliner
> Backup lights stuck on
> One headlight high beam out
>
> In short, I think this car is a terrific driver that has some very
> desirable features (10-inch wheels, Wilwood brakes, new modern clutch, rebuilt
> engine, really nice silver paint) that is somewhat let down by a host of
> problems, most of them small and very easily sorted, but two of them significant
> enough that I wouldn't be comfortable just jumping in the car and driving it
> away (cooling system woes most importantly, but also the engine idle and high
> rpm cut-out issues.
>
> This is a car that would pay HUGE dividends to the do-it-yourselfer.  None
> of the car's problems (apart from the small areas of sheetmetal rust) are
> difficult to resolve, and it would be very easy to keep improving this car
> over the space of a few weekends.   Replacing the whole cooling system would
> be a big job, requiring the help of some friends to make it more enjoyable,
> and the engine problems will require some detective work, but everything else
> is fairly simple and straightforward.
>
> I would say that the car would be very properly priced if it didn't have
> the many small 'issues' and two larger ones.   As it stands, those issues
> either need to be resolved, or the seller needs to show some financial
> consideration for the buyer who will be left to contend with them before he can
> actually drive and enjoy the car properly.
>
> Depending on how much one values one's time to spend fixing the car (or
> paying a mechanic $$$ to do it), I would say the car is probably worth in the
> region of $65-70K as it stands.   Once its mechanical issues are dealt with,
> for sure it would provide the new owner tremendous enjoyment, and at some
> point in the future, while a new paint job would be a bit more expensive due
> to the need to repair small parts of several panels, it's not going to have
> the serious structural cancer that can quickly drive costs through the roof.
>
> I wish both the seller and the eventual buyer good luck, and hope that this
> car can find a loving home soon!
>
> Mike
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
>     All,
>     Yesterday I was afforded the opportunity to fully evaluate a late 1974
>     Pantera L that is currently for sale at Fantasy Junction, the
>     well-known purveyor of fine motor cars, in Emeryville, CA (just across
>     the Bay Bridge from San Francisco).  Here is a link to the description
>     of the car with many, many photos:
>     http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/1982-DeTomaso%20-Pantera%20L-351%20c.i.
>     %20Cleveland%20V-8
>     I have passing familiarity with this car, as I worked on it briefly
>     (and when I say 'worked on it', what I mean is that I changed the light
>     bulbs in the speedometer and tachometer, and that's all) and got the
>   opportunity to drive it two or three years ago.  At that time, the
>     original headliner was flapping down, and it had carburetor issues, but
>     it seemed to be a fundamentally good car.  I gave the owner a list of
>     'to do' items and promised to come look at it again in more detail once
>     he had finished the repairs, but we never managed to get together
>     again.
>     The owner at the time was named Ken Painter.  The car had belonged to
>     his father, and clearly he had been passionate about it.  Ken inherited
>     it, and confessed to having only a passing interest in it.  He attended
>     a few club events, but clearly his heart wasn't in it, and he said he
>     planned to sell it.
>     He attempted to market it locally through an ad in the Pantera Club of
>     Northern California newsletter, but most of the members of the club
>     already have Panteras, so although he got a few nibbles, he got no
>     bites.  He eventually sold it through Fantasy Junction to a speculative
>     buyer.  That fellow now technically owns the car, but he has decided to
>     sell it so Fantasy Junction is marketing it for him.
>     The car was originally painted the horrid Army Tank Green color found
>     on (thankfully few) L-model Panteras, but at some point in its life, it
>     was repainted a nice shade of silver, and at that time the chrome trim
>     was all blacked out.  It spent its early years in Florida, which is
>     automatically worrisome due to the high humidity and potential for
>     rust, but its latter life was spent in California, where it was used
>     very sparingly.
>     It recently was the subject of an obscenely overpriced engine overhaul,
>     and the new motor is just barely broken in, with a thousand miles or so
>     on it.
>     Upon arriving at Fantasy Junction, I found the car parked on their
>     four-post lift, which affords an excellent opportunity to inspect the
>     underside.  I immediately zoomed in to the rear portion of the chassis,
>     where rust can take hold and be extremely expensive and labor-intensive
>     to repair.  Repeated whacks with a hammer and pointed punch revealed
>     that structurally, the car is absolutely rock-solid.  Despite the fact
>     that owner-added drain holes (so necessary in these cars) were never
>    created, nevertheless the chassis is quite stout.
>     The suspension has been fitted with top-of-the-line adjustable Koni
>     coil-over shocks and Hypercoil springs.  The extensive corrosion on the
>     ride height adjustment collars indicates that they are very old, and
>     changing their settings would require a lot of work to free up the
>     adjusters.  Having said that, these are a 'set and forget' component,
>     and there would be no reason (other than cosmetics) to deal with them.
>     (On my test drive, they worked exceptionally well, delivering a firm
>     but comfortable ride).
>     The right-side upright has been fitted with grease fittings for the
>     lower shaft, while the left-side doesn't have them.
>     The car has a stock-sized aftermarket rear chrome sway bar, but the
>     chrome is pitted with surface rust.  The sway bar bushings appear to be
>     original, and are largely perished.  The single best improvement one
>     can make to a Pantera, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, is to upgrade from
>     the stock 3/4 inch rear sway bar to the Euro GTS-specification 7/8 inch
>     bar.  Given that this car's existing components are both in a somewhat
>     tired state, this is a $200 investment I would make right away
>     (although it's not strictly 'necessary').
>     The engine appears to be completely tight and absent of any leaks (as
>     it should be considering it's new), while there is a tiny drop of oil
>     leaking from the transaxle drain plug.  I don't know how fresh the
>     transaxle fluid is, but I suspect it's been changed recently.  Perhaps
>   a bit of tightening on the plug would fix the leak; if not, removing it
>     and wrapping with Teflon tape should do the trick.  (At that time, a
>     decision could be made to refill with the existing oil if it's fresh,
>     or replace it--it requires about 7 pints of GL-5 80w90 gearbox oil).
>     It has become customary to fit a aDETOMASOa logo plaque to the rear of
>     the chassis in between the inner sway bar mounts.  These cast aluminum
>     plaques were originally fitted to the valve covers on the 1971-72
>     Panteras and were held in place with glue; after the first one fell
>     off, usually owners put the remaining one at the rear of the chassis,
>     where it happens to fit perfectly. It also disguises damage to the lip
>     on the back of the chassis rail caused by incautious jacking.  This car
>     has evidence that it had this plaque at one time (in the form of a pair
>     of screw holes), but the plaque has disappeared, and the lip is a
>     little bit wrinkled.  This is another trivial cosmetic issue, easily
>     resolved with hammer and dolly work, and the plaques are readily
>     available and not very expensive if one wanted to follow convention.
>     There is evidence of sloppy cosmetic work, as the cast aluminum gearbox
>     mounts are partially covered in black overspray, likely from a
>     rattle-can touch-up of the underside chassis.  A bit of time with a rag
>     and laquer thinner would go a long way there.
>     While looking up, I was surprised to see that the removable fiberglass
>     trunk was broken, with a big crack in it.  This is invisible from
>     above, but suggests it was subjected to carrying an extreme load at one
>     point.  Fortunately this is extremely easy to fix, and it is completely
>     invisible normally.
>     The clutch has been equipped with a braided stainless steel flex hose,
>     replacing the awful red plastic hose that came from the factory.  This
>     is an excellent (and I would say mandatory) upgrade.
>     I was surprised and pleased to find that the car had been equipped with
>     Wilwood four-piston brake calipers on all four corners.  The stock rear
>     calipers have been retained for their parking brake function only.  The
>     Wilwood calipers are their larger Superlite II model, but the car uses
>     stock, unvented rotors.  (Vented rotors are readily available and not
>   overly expensive should an owner decide to upgrade).  Naturally, the
>     ancient rubber hoses have been replaced with braided stainless
>     steel/Teflon hoses as part of the caliper upgrade.
>     As part of the system, the stock master cylinder has been replaced with
>     a Ford SVO aluminum unit with an adapter bracket from Pantera
>     Performance Center.  It has Wilwood 2psi residual pressure valves
>     plumbed into the system, which prevents the caliper pistons from
>     migrating back into the calipers, which could produce a 'long' brake
>    pedal on the first application.  They still sell this whole brake
>     system as a complete kit.
>     Proceeding forward, I could see that the original water pipes are still
>     present, and have surface rust.  There is no indication of any water
>     leak, but if the cooling system is serviced (more on that in a moment)
>     it makes sense to replace them with new stainless steel pipes.  (I
>   recently worked on a similar low-mileage Pantera whose pipes were
>     visually in the same shape; when I removed them they crumbled in my
>     hands at the ends where they mated with the rubber hoses--although they
>     weren't leaking either, a leak was not long in coming).
>     The front valance is a little bit wavy at the bottom and has surface
>     rust on it, but is undented.  This is a structural location, and either
>     ambient water or water from a leaky radiator can cause this area to
>     rust out, but the one on this car seems to be in reasonable shape.
>     Proceeding to the exterior of the car, I noted that the silver paint
>     appeared to be of very high quality, but is starting to show its age.
>     There are certain parts of the body where rust first materializes,
>     which manifests itself in bubbling in the paint.  This car has
>     hand-sized areas of obvious corrosion on several panels--the lower rear
>     of the left-hand front fender, the lower front of the left-hand quarter
>     panel, the rocker panel immediately beneath, and the lower front of the
>     right-hand quarter panel.
>     This is what I would call 'typical' rust on these cars.  It doesn't
>     appear to be overly significant and is far from catastrophic.  Someday,
>     somebody will repaint this car, and when that happens, at a minimum
>     these areas will need to be cut out and new patches installed.  Too,
>     it's likely that there is internal rust to the bottom of the B-pillar
>     posts and perhaps the middle of the three rocker panels, so those would
>     be attended to at the same time.  But if I was to buy this car as a
>     driver, I would comfortably drive it as-is for many years to come, and
>     chalk all that up to being a 'someday' project.
>     The right-hand rocker panel has a dent at the rear, but it's easily
>     accessed from behind and could be straightened out very, very easily.
>     The left-hand headlight bucket stands slightly proud of the fender when
>     shut.  These are adjusted with various shims etc. and I have no doubt
>     that it could be fixed (what might have to happen is that the
>     right-hand bucket needs to be raised with shims slightly, then the
>     whole mechanism lowered more so they are both closed uniformly).
>     The car has been fitted with the highly desirable 10-inch rear wheels,
>     and the 8-inch wheels formerly living at the rear of the car have been
>     moved to the front.  The 10-inch wheels were always a very expensive
>     aftermarket option (I paid $900 each for mine in 1989), and now are
>     easily worth $3500 or more by themselves.  This is a huge selling point
>     for this car, as they are very difficult to find and very desirable.
>   I didn't note the age of the tires, but they at least have plenty of
>     tread left.  It has Yokohama 295/50 in the rear and Falken 225/50 in
>     the front.
>    The front bumper has been described as 'serviceable' in the ad, and
>     that's a very fair characterization, in the sense that if you crashed
>     into something, it would do its job.  Cosmetically though, it is in
>     pretty sad shape, suffering from numerous scrapes and scuffs, waves,
>     and a very pronounced split on the driver's side.  It is possible to
>     repair these bumpers, but enough people have chosen to remove them and
>     replace them either with aftermarket fiberglass units (the fit of some
>     of those leaves a lot to be desired), or ginchy carbon-fiber, and NOS
>     steel and rubber bumpers are still available (although pricy).
>     The rear quarter windows are not installed, but are included with the
>     car in a big box of spare and leftover parts.  I would reinstall them
>     right away, although I know that many owners prefer to leave them out
>     for the ease of cleaning the back window.
>     The left doorhandle return spring is broken, although the doorhandle
>     still works perfectly well. The latch simply remains proud after the
>     door has been opened, but it sits flush when it's closed.
>     The right-side door frame hits the trim at the top of the B-pillar and
>     has scraped the paint away.  (I forgot to check to see if the same is
>     true on the driver's side).
>     Oddly, the backup lights are stuck on; whenever the key is on, they are
>     illuminated no matter if the car is in reverse or not.  Frequently
>     these lights don't function at all; I would suspect that the problem
>     lies with a faulty or misadjusted backup light switch, likely easily
>     resolved.
>     The car is equipped with a Hall Pantera Big Bore exhaust system.  While
>     the Hall headers are a good match for stock tailpipes/mufflers, giving
>     a noticeable horsepower improvement, the Hall tailpipes/mufflers are
>     aesthetically very questionable, and aurally they take away the
>     signature Pantera 'sound'.  Rather than sounding like an Italian exotic
>     with a very muscular heart, the Hall mufflers make the car sound like
>     an old pickup truck or a speedboat.  There is nothing inherently
>     'wrong' with them, as they are functioning as designed (no cracks or
>     leaks or other damage).  But if this was my car, at a minimum I would
>     source a good pair of stock tailpipes to return the proper Pantera
>     sound; in all likelihood I would just replace the whole system, either
>     with the ANSA European GTS setup, or (preferably) the system produced
>     by Panteras by Wilkinson, which delivers the cosmetic appearance of the
>     factory GTS exhaust, but produces considerably more horsepower (31 hp
>     in a back-to-back dyno test) at less cost.
>     The stock mirrors have been replaced with Vitaloni Baby Bravo mirrors,
>     attached to plates glued to the inside of the quarter glass.  During my
>     test drive, the passenger-side mirror gave an excellent view of the
>     ground rather than traffic to the rear; I confess I forgot to see if it
>     could be adjusted properly.
>     Considering that the engine was rebuilt 1000 miles ago at a cost of
>     $18,000 (!!!!!), cosmetically it leaves more than a bit to be desired.
>     The valve covers look scruffy, with the black paint peeling off.  The
>     intake manifold is stained, evidence of a prior fuel leak.  These items
>     should have been taken care of as part of the engine rebuild--a
>     shameful oversight.  Fortunately it is easy to take care of it now--the
>     valve covers and intake can be removed, bead-blasted, and then the
>     valve covers can be masked and painted.
>     The gearbox also looks a bit 'naff' as the English would say, and would
>     benefit from a good scrubbing.
>    The engine is fitted with an Edelbrock Performer 4V intake manifold
>     (pretty much the standard replacement for the stock cast-iron boat
>     anchor), and a cheap economy Holley carburetor.  When I drove the car a
>     couple of years ago, it had a good performance Holley carb that was in
>     dire need of tuning and fettling; instead the prior owner just replaced
>     it with a carb of much lower specification.  It is perfectly fine for
>     cruising around, and will likely deliver good fuel economy, but the
>     side-pivot floats means that it will cut out under very hard
>     cornering.  I would likely be putting this one on Craigslist and
>     replacing it with the factory European GTS offering, the Holley 4777
>     650 double-pumper.
>     The stock air cleaner is installed, but is missing the plastic fresh
>     air induction snorkel system, which was fitted to the firewall and drew
>     cool, fresh air from beneath the passenger seat.  So the engine is
>     instead inhaling ambient air from directly above the exhaust headers on
>     the passenger side.
>     I forgot to mention that the original decklid shocks are still
>     installed (upside down), and are doing a surprisingly good job of
>     keeping the decklid open.  Usually by this point, they would have
>     collapsed and been replaced with something more generic in appearance.
>     The stock spare tire is in the rear trunk, although the normally gloss
>     black wheel has been rattle-can painted with silver (which is
>     failing).  This late car has provisions for a hold-down (a reinforced
>     hole in the bottom of the spare tire well at the right rear corner of
>     the trunk), and the factory hold-down is inside the box of spare
>     parts.  Given that the spare situation was not well thought-out (if you
>     get a flat tire and choose to fit the inflatable spare, there is
>     absolutely no place to put the flat tire and wheel, and you're not
>     going to just leave them on the side of the road, are you?), I would
>     probably detail the wheel to the Nth degree and sell it to a Boss
>     Mustang concours nut, as they pay a lot of money for these things.
>     The complete factory tool kit is included, and while the tools are junk
>     and factory jacks have been known to fail, people have paid upwards of
>     $1500 for a complete tool kit, so it's a nice thing to have.
>     The decklid catch is sticky and remains stuck open, which could allow
>     the decklid to bounce around if it wasn't noticed.  There is a spring
>     inside the catch which is not capable of forcing the latch closed as it
>     should; gentle thumb pressure causes it to snap shut and then it
>     functions properly (securing the decklid).  This could be as simple as
>     adjusting/lubricating it, or perhaps the spring inside has broken and
>     needs to be replaced.  An entirely new latch can be purchased very
>     inexpensively.
>     The weatherstripping on the body that seals to the decklid has failed,
>     and while it could perhaps be quietly glued together, it should
>     probably be replaced.
>     The single most significant item on any Pantera is its cooling system.
>     These cars got a bad rap when they were new for cooling system woes,
>     but by the 1974 model year, the cooling system was completely ironed
>   out and they ran perfectly.  But 1974 was a long time agoa|.
>     This car is still equipped with a completely original cooling
>     system--radiator, fans, pipes etc. are all original, and well past
>     their prime.  I could see no evidence of a leak, and hoped that the
>     system was functioning as it did in 1974.
>     I then hopped inside to check out the interior.  The first thing I
>     noticed were aftermarket speakers installed in holes cut in the
>     doorpanels; both speakers are missing their grilles and thus their guts
>     are on display for all to see (and damage).  An Alpine stereo is
>     fitted, which I naturally didn't bother to test.
>     Oddly, the left interior door handle has been 'clocked' incorrectly so
>     it sticks up proud; it is on a splined shaft and fixing it is as simple
>     as removing the three screws that hold the armrest to the door, then
>     removing the single screw that holds the doorhandle in place,
>     reclocking it on the splined shaft and reinstalling.
>     On first glance, the dashboard appears to be in unusually good
>     condition.  However, it is all artifice, as the stock dashboard is
>     weathered and cracked, and has been equipped with a dashboard cap from
>     Hall Pantera.  This cap is remarkably well-done, following the contours
>     of the stock dash while being just that tiny bit larger.  During
>     installation, all the gauges, vents, switches etc. are removed from the
>     stock dash, the cap is installed, and then everything is put back in
>     place.  The installation is good overall but is dramatically let down
>     by the holes for the two small warning lights to the left of the main
>     gauges.  The cap doesn't fit as well as one would hope here, and those
>     lights were left installed in the original dash, and big holes were
>     gouged in the dash cap so they are visible.  This looks terrible, so
>     random rubber plugs were inserted to hide them, which looks only
>     slightly less terrible.
>     The stock steering wheel was replaced with a Lecarra wheel, of an
>     unusually small size (likely 12 inches).  This provides more legroom
>     for a taller driver, but increases steering effort and compromises
>   visibility of the main gauges.  The stock steering wheel was 14 inches
>     (Euro cars were 350mm, or 13.7 inches) so I would very quickly unbolt
>     this too-small wheel and replace it with a 14-inch Lecarra wheel.
>     The original window switches were okay when new, but didn't have the
>     longevity one would hope for, and its rare to find a car that still has
>     them installed and working.  This car has had them replaced with much
>     higher quality Bosch switches (the originals are included with the
>     leftover parts), and both windows work well.  The driver's window
>     travel is a bit irregular, with a tight spot about 3/4 of the way up,
>     but that's not unusual, as adjusting the windows on these cars is a bit
>     of a black art.
>     When I first turned on the key, I heard the A/C clutch engage and the
>     A/C fan start up, so at least that appeared to be working.  I turned
>     them off and continued testing the electrics.
>     The generator light is very, very weak when the key is on and the car
>     not running.  Normally if a one-wire alternator is fitted, this light
>    is brightly lit all the time and needs to be unplugged.  I don't know
>     what kind of alternator the car has, nor can I explain why the bulb
>     would glow dimly.
>     The headlights raised normally, but the left high beam is burned out.
>     The turn signals all work (although I forgot to test the brake lights
>   or taillights).  The interior blower fan works, and the turn signal
>     switch still functions properly, although the lever has been bent
>     forward so that it is not in the correct location and is difficult to
>     reach with your hands on the wheel.  Some sympathetic bending would
>     hopefully rectify that.
>     I forgot to test the horn, which is actuated by the turn signal
>     switch.
>     The shift gate is in good condition, and the stock shift knob has been
>     replaced with an oversized knob from Hall Pantera.  (I prefer the
>     original, and hope that it is in good condition and included with the
>     spare parts).
>    The stock seats have been recovered in the stock pattern, but the vinyl
>     center has been replaced with cloth, perhaps a nod to the realities of
>     the car's time spent in Florida.
>     The stock carpets are gone, replaced with generic black carpeting.  The
>     carpet on the driver's side has started to fail, and it's wrinkled and
>     easily tangles up the feet near the pedals.  At a minimum it needs to
>     be glued down, but some good floormats wouldn't go unnoticed (it has
>     none).
>     A Hall Pantera center console was screwed atop the stock center
>     console.  While the design is good, the execution leaves a bit to be
>     desired.  The plastic is very thin and cheap-feeling, and it squeaks
>     something awful.  If it is retained, efforts need to be made to
>     insulate it to stop the squeaking.
>     The aforementioned stock headliner, which was blowing down when I drove
>     the car a few years ago, has been replaced with a non-original,
>     non-matching generic headliner--a great disappointment, as it would
>     have been just as easy to do it properly.  The installation seems good
>     enough, but why not use the original material since it is available if
>     you know where to look?
>     The sunvisor on the driver's side doesn't stay up as well as one would
>     like.  This is down to a minor failure on the mount, which is easily
>     rectified.  The mounts are plastic with knurled steel pins pressed in
>     the end; the pins are supposed to be stationary while the sunvisor
>     rotates around them.  In this case, the pins have come free and spin in
>     the plastic housings.  All that is necessary is to remove them and use
>     a strong adhesive like Krazy Glue to glue the pins in the housings, and
>     all will be well.
>     The clutch pedal is very light (for a Pantera), expected on a later car
>     which came with a revised clutch linkage.  This car has been fitted
>     with an aluminum flywheel and modern clutch (likely a Centerforce, I'm
>     guessing).  The brake pedal is very solid as well.  The car shifts
>     smoothly through the gears, although shift effort is rather high,
>     indicating that lubrication of the linkage is overdue.
>     Oh, and the dome light works.
>     It was finally time for a test drive.
>     The car started very easily, and the ammeter immediately indicated it
>     was charging the battery--good.  I could immediately smell exhaust,
>     suggesting that it is overly rich at idle.  The engine was very
>     responsive blipping the throttle--that's the aluminum flywheel at work.
>     The idle is very, very weird.  It has a 500 rpm hunt, back and forth
>     between 500 and 1000 rpm every two seconds.  It's almost as though the
>     timing is advancing and retarding--it's the only thing I can think of
>     that would produce this effect.  (Or a vacuum leak perhaps?)
>     The light flywheel coupled with the weird idle meant it was very
>     difficult to back up the car without stalling the engine.  The only
>     technique that seemed to work was to rev the engine to 2000 rpm and
>     then slip the clutch, which makes the driver appear as though he's
>     never driven a stick shift before, much less a Pantera.  It was
>     embarrassing.  But if I tried to drive it conventionally, the clutch
>     'bite' at 1000 rpm would then result in the engine dying when it
>     dropped to 500 rpm.  I suppose I could have learned to follow the sine
>     wave and dip the clutch in and out in time to the rpm increase and
>     decrease, but it was easier to just rev it and slip the clutch when
>     reversing, and more or less dump the clutch and stand on the gas when
>     pulling away from a stop (which, I confess, is fun to do anyway).
>     Within a short time of departing the dealership, I noted the water
>     temperature had already risen to an indicated 230 degrees, and it
>     maintained about 220-230 while driving down the freeway. I hoped it
>     was an indication error, because it would be worrisome if it was true.
>     The car feels very taut and solid when driving down the road, which is
>     what you would expect from a car whose mileage is so low, fitted with
>     Koni shocks.  The steering was fine, with no undue play or pulling to
>     one side.  The brakes are excellent (although the solid rotors mean
>     they would likely become overwhelmed if the car was subjected to
>     extreme track duty), and the engine pulls reasonable wella|
>     a|until 5000 rpm when it suddenly cuts out.  Repeated tests showed that
>     at exactly 5000 rpm indicated on the tach, the engine would stutter and
>     maintain exactly that rpm and no more, indicating some kind of rev
>     limiter has been installed and set unusually low.  Perhaps this was
>     part of the break-in process, and it was intended to be set higher
>     afterwards.  I have no idea what kind of ignition system is in the car
>     (it was too late to crawl around and check), so one hopes this is the
>     explanation.
>     As long as I remained below 5000 rpm, and above idle, the engine ran
>     great.  It isn't especially powerful, although it has considerably more
>     power than a stock 1974 Pantera (if I'm honest, a stock 1974 Pantera is
>     a bit of a dog thanks to its low compression and smog gear). I wish I
>     knew what the previous owner got for his $18,000 engine rebuild.  Is
>     the engine still fitted with the 1974 low-compression cylinder heads?
>     There's no way of telling from the outside.
>     Suffice it to say that it runs well and delivers exhilarating
>     performance, but it is in desperate need of tuning and fettling.
>     Back at the shop, I let the car sit and idle while I ran around with a
>     floor jack.  I'm pleased to report that both rear wheel bearing/axle
>     setups were in fine shape, and the steering rack had no discernable
>     play (stock steering racks have a bushing that wears out in about 40K
>     miles, so this one has a ways to go yet).
>     I became alarmed when I noticed the temperature gauge getting very
>     close to 260 degrees, in the red zone, and one radiator fan hadn't
>     turned on yet.  Either the gauge was lying or there were serious
>     problems here.  I used a hand-held laser temp gun and shot the back
>     side of the radiator, which indicated 250 degrees on the side with the
>     non-working fan.
>     Yikes!
>     I quickly shut the car down, and was surprised to find that it shut off
>     cleanly, showing no signs whatsoever of overheating (no spitting of
>     coolant or steam, or gurgling from the pressure tanks).  So while the
>     radiator/fan setup is clearly not working properly, it seems the system
>     was well purged of air and the tanks and radiator cap are both good.
>     Afterwards I went into the storeroom and looked at four boxes that come
>     with the car; one had a bunch of parts, either old parts that had been
>     taken off the car and retained (such as the window switches), or items
>     that were purchased but never fitted (like a aGTSa rear badge, wheel
>     emblems and shift knob--evidently somebody considered making this car a
>     GTS clone at some point).
>     Very significantly, the windshield wipers and arms were in this box
>     too.  The 1974 cars used different wipers which parked on the driver's
>     side (halfway up the windscreen, very annoying), and most people remove
>     them and store them in the trunk.  These arms are completely impossible
>     to find, and if a car is purchased with them absent, there is pretty
>     much no way to render the wipers functional.  So the fact these are
>     here is very good news indeed.
>     Other boxes contained the factory service and part manuals, and a
>     collection of club newsletters and magazines stretching back many
>     years.  The last box just had generic car-care items, including a small
>     tool kit, wax, rags etc.
>     So what to make of this car then?  Basically, it is being marketed not
>     as a perfect concours car or an original survivor, but instead as a
>     good, solid driver, which is an accurate assessment, apart from the
>     various mechanical niggles that keep the car from just being a turn-key
>     proposition as it stands.
>     Strengths:
>     Very solid chassis absent of structural rust
>     Good silver paint (all the flaws are below the beltline in the black
>     painted areas, making them harder to see)
>     10-inch rear wheels
>     Freshly rebuilt engine (in need of tuning and perhaps a better carb)
>     stronger than stock
>     Koni shocks deliver a terrific ride
>     Great Wilwood brakes
>     Decent-looking interior overall
>     No chassis squeaks/groans etc. (just some noise from the plastic center
>     console)
>     Low mileage
>     All factory manuals and many newsletters/magazines included
>     Full toolkit with jack (expensive!)
>     Electrical items all appear to be working fine
>     Nice, light clutch
>     Weaknesses:
>     Flaws in the paint clearly indicating panel rust, with potential for
>     minor structural rust underneath
>     Small dent in rocker panel
>     Cooling system appears to be shot (needs new radiator, fans, pipes, and
>     might as well change the hoses too, which would cost about $1500 in
>     parts)
>   Trivial gearbox oil leak
>     Rear swaybar/bushings bad (I forgot to check the front, but new
>     bushings are cheap)
>     Black paint overspray on bare aluminum components
>     Engine doesn't present attractively and needs cosmetic attention
>     Engine doesn't idle properly
>     Ignition cuts out completely at 5000 rpm
>     Engine bay to decklid weatherstripping broken
>     Dubious Hall exhaust lets the car down aurally and cosmetically
>     Carpet is falling apart on driver's side
>     Naked speakers in the doors
>     Unfortunate choice of non-original headliner
>     Backup lights stuck on
>     One headlight high beam out
>     In short, I think this car is a terrific driver that has some very
>     desirable features (10-inch wheels, Wilwood brakes, new modern clutch,
>     rebuilt engine, really nice silver paint) that is somewhat let down by
>     a host of problems, most of them small and very easily sorted, but two
>     of them significant enough that I wouldn't be comfortable just jumping
>     in the car and driving it away (cooling system woes most importantly,
>     but also the engine idle and high rpm cut-out issues.
>     This is a car that would pay HUGE dividends to the do-it-yourselfer.
>     None of the car's problems (apart from the small areas of sheetmetal
>     rust) are difficult to resolve, and it would be very easy to keep
>     improving this car over the space of a few weekends.  Replacing the
>     whole cooling system would be a big job, requiring the help of some
>     friends to make it more enjoyable, and the engine problems will require
>     some detective work, but everything else is fairly simple and
>     straightforward.
>     I would say that the car would be very properly priced if it didn't
>     have the many small 'issues' and two larger ones.  As it stands, those
>     issues either need to be resolved, or the seller needs to show some
>    financial consideration for the buyer who will be left to contend with
>     them before he can actually drive and enjoy the car properly.
>     Depending on how much one values one's time to spend fixing the car (or
>     paying a mechanic $$$ to do it), I would say the car is probably worth
>     in the region of $65-70K as it stands.  Once its mechanical issues are
>     dealt with, for sure it would provide the new owner tremendous
>     enjoyment, and at some point in the future, while a new paint job would
>     be a bit more expensive due to the need to repair small parts of
>     several panels, it's not going to have the serious structural cancer
>     that can quickly drive costs through the roof.
>     I wish both the seller and the eventual buyer good luck, and hope that
>     this car can find a loving home soon!
>     Mike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 15:30:08 -0700
> From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> To: Email List Address For Posting <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Review--1974 Pantera L for sale
> Message-ID: <28AF7827-C6E0-47B1-A8BE-DB9B60E454F5 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Mike and all,
> "The right-hand rocker panel has a dent at the rear, but it's easily accessed from behind and could be straightened out very, very easily."
> Not sure exactly what the dent you mentioned is, but if it is actually in the rocker there is no very, very easy access from the rear.  ;-)
> The outer, middle and inner rocker construction extends all the way to the rear.
>
> This is a shot of the inner panel at the rear of the left-hand rocker on 2511. Note the lack of the large holes found in the middle rocker panels below the cabin.
>
> ( Denny Finn has removed both rockers on 2511 during the repair/restoration project for minor issues and found nothing but 45-year-old surface rust. )
> The rust/paint issues Mike also noted would seem to indicate that bottom of A-pillars and B-pillars may require serious metal replacement once they are actually opened up for inspection. Once(If)the B-pillar rust has seriously advanced it will likely lead to rust of the inner rockers.
> Remember, Pantera's have had 45 years for that untreated, bare Italian mill-grade steel to rust from the inside out. If that rust has advanced to the point of now being visible externally, one should expect greater issues have already occurred unseen.
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
> -------------- next part --------------
> Mike and all,
> "The right-hand rocker panel has a dent at the rear, but it's easily
> accessed from behind and could be straightened out very, very easily."
>
> Not sure exactly what the dent you mentioned is, but if it is actually in the ro
> cker there is no very, very easy access from the rear.  ;-)
> The outer, middle and inner rocker construction extends all the way to the rear.
>
>   image1.JPG
>
> This is a shot of the inner panel at the rear of the left-hand rocker on 2511. N
> ote the lack of the large holes found in the middle rocker panels below the cabi
> n.
>   image2.JPG
>
> ( Denny Finn has removed both rockers on 2511 during the repair/restoration proj
> ect for minor issues and found nothing but 45-year-old surface rust. )
> The rust/paint issues Mike also noted would seem to indicate that bottom of A-pi
> llars and B-pillars may require serious metal replacement once they are actually
>   opened up for inspection. Once(If)the B-pillar rust has seriously advanced it w
> ill likely lead to rust of the inner rockers.
> Remember, Pantera's have had 45 years for that untreated, bare Italian mill-grad
> e steel to rust from the inside out. If that rust has advanced to the point of n
> ow being visible externally, one should expect greater issues have already occur
> red unseen.
> Larry
>
>
>     Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 20:34:41 -0400
> From: <dgordon100 at cox.net>
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia
> Message-ID: <20170625203441.K3FUF.37284.imail at fed1rmwml107>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Does anybody know of Dyno shops around the area of Paramount California where I could have my Pantera ran?  It needs to be a dyno that can handle my expected 600-700 rear wheel horsepower.  My understanding is that dynos have specific horsepower limits.  If you know the dyno prices for the shop please include that too.
>
> Thanks, David
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 02:34:09 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> To: "dgordon100 at cox.net" <dgordon100 at cox.net>,
> 	"detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>,
> 	Rod Kunishige <rkunishige at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia
> Message-ID: <586762482.2100449.1498444449274 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I recall the Orange County club having a dyno day at the shop near the intersection of the 5 and 91 freeways a few years ago.? Seemed like a serious engine builder, probably a high HP capability.
> Rod, do you?remember???
> Ken
>
>        From: "dgordon100 at cox.net" <dgordon100 at cox.net>
>   To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>   Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 5:34 PM
>   Subject: [DeTomaso] (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia
>     
> Does anybody know of Dyno shops around the area of Paramount California where I could have my Pantera ran?? It needs to be a dyno that can handle my expected 600-700 rear wheel horsepower.? My understanding is that dynos have specific horsepower limits.? If you know the dyno prices for the shop please include that too.
>
> Thanks, David
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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>
>
>     
> -------------- next part --------------
>    I recall the Orange County club having a dyno day at the shop near the
>     intersection of the 5 and 91 freeways a few years ago.  Seemed like a
>     serious engine builder, probably a high HP capability.
>     Rod, do you remember???
>     Ken
>       __________________________________________________________________
>
>     From: "dgordon100 at cox.net" <dgordon100 at cox.net>
>     To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 5:34 PM
>     Subject: [DeTomaso] (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia
>     Does anybody know of Dyno shops around the area of Paramount California
>     where I could have my Pantera ran?  It needs to be a dyno that can
>     handle my expected 600-700 rear wheel horsepower.  My understanding is
>     that dynos have specific horsepower limits.  If you know the dyno
>     prices for the shop please include that too.
>   Thanks, David
>     _______________________________________________
>     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>     DeTomaso mailing list
>     [1]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>     use the links above.
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>     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>     or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
>     1. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 20:28:14 -0700
> From: Scott Couchman <scottcouchman at yahoo.com>
> To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> 	<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, Rod Kunishige
> 	<rkunishige at hotmail.com>, "dgordon100 at cox.net" <dgordon100 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia
> Message-ID: <E508CBE7-DFCF-46B5-913A-01FA65DE5181 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
>
> That is Superior Automotive Engineering. They've moved. Now in Placentia. Still have the dyno, 700hp is no problem.....just had my Pantera checked before leaving OC for the FunRally. We will consider having a Dyno Day next year if there's enough interest. Scott
>
>> On Jun 25, 2017, at 7:34 PM, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>> I recall the Orange County club having a dyno day at the shop near the
>>    intersection of the 5 and 91 freeways a few years ago.  Seemed like a
>>    serious engine builder, probably a high HP capability.
>>    Rod, do you remember???
>>    Ken
>>      __________________________________________________________________
>>
>>    From: "dgordon100 at cox.net" <dgordon100 at cox.net>
>>    To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>    Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 5:34 PM
>>    Subject: [DeTomaso] (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia
>>    Does anybody know of Dyno shops around the area of Paramount California
>>    where I could have my Pantera ran?  It needs to be a dyno that can
>>    handle my expected 600-700 rear wheel horsepower.  My understanding is
>>    that dynos have specific horsepower limits.  If you know the dyno
>>    prices for the shop please include that too.
>>    Thanks, David
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>>    Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>    DeTomaso mailing list
>>    [1]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>    [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>    To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>>    use the links above.
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>>    message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>>    list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>>    or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>
>> References
>>
>>    1. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>    2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 156, Issue 22
> *****************************************
>
> -------------- next part --------------
>     Good Lord, spent all morning, several mugs of coffee, and breakfast
>     while reading and digesting Mike's review. The review, in itself, might
>     be worth more than the car! Going out now to check my own against this
>     checklist and practice backing out of my driveway without embarrassing
>     myself although my idle is fine and there's no limit to my rpm's once I
>     get started. Not hitting my other cars, and ensuring i go down the
>     narrow driveway 'exactly' in the center without hitting the low panels
>     on the curbs, that's my challenge.
>
>     Happy Days!
>
>     Laurie
>
>       Message: 1
>       Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 16:39:09 -0400
>       From: [1]MikeLDrew at aol.com
>       To: [2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com,
>       [3]admin at detomasoregistry.org
>       Subject: [DeTomaso] Review--1974 Pantera L for sale
>       Message-ID: <[4]4cb78.16b59d7f.4681796c at aol.com>
>       Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>       All,
>       Yesterday I was afforded the opportunity to fully evaluate a late
>       1974
>       Pantera L that is currently for sale at Fantasy Junction, the
>       well-known
>       purveyor of fine motor cars, in Emeryville, CA (just across the Bay
>       Bridge from San
>       Francisco). Here is a link to the description of the car with many,
>       many
>       photos:
>       [5]http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/1982-DeTomaso%20-Pantera%20L-351%
>       20c.i.%20Cl
>       eveland%20V-8
>       I have passing familiarity with this car, as I worked on it briefly
>       (and
>       when I say 'worked on it', what I mean is that I changed the light
>       bulbs in
>       the speedometer and tachometer, and that's all) and got the
>       opportunity to
>       drive it two or three years ago. At that time, the original
>       headliner was
>       flapping down, and it had carburetor issues, but it seemed to be a
>       fundamentally good car. I gave the owner a list of 'to do' items and
>       promised to come
>       look at it again in more detail once he had finished the repairs,
>       but we
>       never managed to get together again.
>       The owner at the time was named Ken Painter. The car had belonged to
>       his
>       father, and clearly he had been passionate about it. Ken inherited
>       it, and
>       confessed to having only a passing interest in it. He attended a few
>       club
>       events, but clearly his heart wasn't in it, and he said he planned
>       to sell
>       it.
>       He attempted to market it locally through an ad in the Pantera Club
>       of
>       Northern California newsletter, but most of the members of the club
>       already have
>       Panteras, so although he got a few nibbles, he got no bites. He
>       eventually sold it through Fantasy Junction to a speculative buyer.
>       That fellow now
>       technically owns the car, but he has decided to sell it so Fantasy
>       Junction
>       is marketing it for him.
>       The car was originally painted the horrid Army Tank Green color
>       found on
>       (thankfully few) L-model Panteras, but at some point in its life, it
>       was
>       repainted a nice shade of silver, and at that time the chrome trim
>       was all
>       blacked out. It spent its early years in Florida, which is
>       automatically
>       worrisome due to the high humidity and potential for rust, but its
>       latter life was
>       spent in California, where it was used very sparingly.
>       It recently was the subject of an obscenely overpriced engine
>       overhaul, and
>       the new motor is just barely broken in, with a thousand miles or so
>       on it.
>       Upon arriving at Fantasy Junction, I found the car parked on their
>       four-post lift, which affords an excellent opportunity to inspect
>       the underside. I
>       immediately zoomed in to the rear portion of the chassis, where rust
>       can
>       take hold and be extremely expensive and labor-intensive to repair.
>       Repeated
>       whacks with a hammer and pointed punch revealed that structurally,
>       the car
>       is absolutely rock-solid. Despite the fact that owner-added drain
>       holes
>       (so necessary in these cars) were never created, nevertheless the
>       chassis is
>       quite stout.
>       The suspension has been fitted with top-of-the-line adjustable Koni
>       coil-over shocks and Hypercoil springs. The extensive corrosion on
>       the ride
>       height adjustment collars indicates that they are very old, and
>       changing their
>       settings would require a lot of work to free up the adjusters.
>       Having said
>       that, these are a 'set and forget' component, and there would be no
>       reason
>       (other than cosmetics) to deal with them. (On my test drive, they
>       worked
>       exceptionally well, delivering a firm but comfortable ride).
>       The right-side upright has been fitted with grease fittings for the
>       lower
>       shaft, while the left-side doesn't have them.
>       The car has a stock-sized aftermarket rear chrome sway bar, but the
>       chrome
>       is pitted with surface rust. The sway bar bushings appear to be
>       original,
>       and are largely perished. The single best improvement one can make
>       to a
>       Pantera, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, is to upgrade from the stock
>       3/4 inch
>       rear sway bar to the Euro GTS-specification 7/8 inch bar. Given that
>       this
>       car's existing components are both in a somewhat tired state, this
>       is a $200
>       investment I would make right away (although it's not strictly
>       'necessary').
>       The engine appears to be completely tight and absent of any leaks
>       (as it
>       should be considering it's new), while there is a tiny drop of oil
>       leaking
>       from the transaxle drain plug. I don't know how fresh the transaxle
>       fluid is,
>       but I suspect it's been changed recently. Perhaps a bit of
>       tightening on
>       the plug would fix the leak; if not, removing it and wrapping with
>       Teflon
>       tape should do the trick. (At that time, a decision could be made to
>       refill
>       with the existing oil if it's fresh, or replace it--it requires
>       about 7
>       pints of GL-5 80w90 gearbox oil).
>       It has become customary to fit a ?DETOMASO? logo plaque to the rear
>       of the
>       chassis in between the inner sway bar mounts. These cast aluminum
>       plaques
>       were originally fitted to the valve covers on the 1971-72 Panteras
>       and were
>       held in place with glue; after the first one fell off, usually
>       owners put
>       the remaining one at the rear of the chassis, where it happens to
>       fit
>       perfectly. It also disguises damage to the lip on the back of the
>       chassis rail
>       caused by incautious jacking. This car has evidence that it had this
>       plaque
>       at one time (in the form of a pair of screw holes), but the plaque
>       has
>       disappeared, and the lip is a little bit wrinkled. This is another
>       trivial
>       cosmetic issue, easily resolved with hammer and dolly work, and the
>       plaques are
>       readily available and not very expensive if one wanted to follow
>       convention.
>       There is evidence of sloppy cosmetic work, as the cast aluminum
>       gearbox
>       mounts are partially covered in black overspray, likely from a
>       rattle-can
>       touch-up of the underside chassis. A bit of time with a rag and
>       laquer thinner
>       would go a long way there.
>       While looking up, I was surprised to see that the removable
>       fiberglass
>       trunk was broken, with a big crack in it. This is invisible from
>       above, but
>       suggests it was subjected to carrying an extreme load at one point.
>       Fortunately this is extremely easy to fix, and it is completely
>       invisible normally.
>       The clutch has been equipped with a braided stainless steel flex
>       hose,
>       replacing the awful red plastic hose that came from the factory.
>       This is an
>       excellent (and I would say mandatory) upgrade.
>       I was surprised and pleased to find that the car had been equipped
>       with
>       Wilwood four-piston brake calipers on all four corners. The stock
>       rear
>       calipers have been retained for their parking brake function only.
>       The Wilwood
>       calipers are their larger Superlite II model, but the car uses
>       stock,
>       unvented rotors. (Vented rotors are readily available and not overly
>       expensive
>       should an owner decide to upgrade). Naturally, the ancient rubber
>       hoses have
>       been replaced with braided stainless steel/Teflon hoses as part of
>       the
>       caliper upgrade.
>       As part of the system, the stock master cylinder has been replaced
>       with a
>       Ford SVO aluminum unit with an adapter bracket from Pantera
>       Performance
>       Center. It has Wilwood 2psi residual pressure valves plumbed into
>       the system,
>       which prevents the caliper pistons from migrating back into the
>       calipers,
>       which could produce a 'long' brake pedal on the first application.
>       They still
>       sell this whole brake system as a complete kit.
>       Proceeding forward, I could see that the original water pipes are
>       still
>       present, and have surface rust. There is no indication of any water
>       leak, but
>       if the cooling system is serviced (more on that in a moment) it
>       makes sense
>       to replace them with new stainless steel pipes. (I recently worked
>       on a
>       similar low-mileage Pantera whose pipes were visually in the same
>       shape; when
>       I removed them they crumbled in my hands at the ends where they
>       mated with
>       the rubber hoses--although they weren't leaking either, a leak was
>       not long
>       in coming).
>       The front valance is a little bit wavy at the bottom and has surface
>       rust
>       on it, but is undented. This is a structural location, and either
>       ambient
>       water or water from a leaky radiator can cause this area to rust
>       out, but the
>       one on this car seems to be in reasonable shape.
>       Proceeding to the exterior of the car, I noted that the silver paint
>       appeared to be of very high quality, but is starting to show its
>       age. There are
>       certain parts of the body where rust first materializes, which
>       manifests
>       itself in bubbling in the paint. This car has hand-sized areas of
>       obvious
>       corrosion on several panels--the lower rear of the left-hand front
>       fender, the
>       lower front of the left-hand quarter panel, the rocker panel
>       immediately
>       beneath, and the lower front of the right-hand quarter panel.
>       This is what I would call 'typical' rust on these cars. It doesn't
>       appear
>       to be overly significant and is far from catastrophic. Someday,
>       somebody
>       will repaint this car, and when that happens, at a minimum these
>       areas will
>       need to be cut out and new patches installed. Too, it's likely that
>       there
>       is internal rust to the bottom of the B-pillar posts and perhaps the
>       middle
>       of the three rocker panels, so those would be attended to at the
>       same time.
>       But if I was to buy this car as a driver, I would comfortably drive
>       it
>       as-is for many years to come, and chalk all that up to being a
>       'someday'
>       project.
>       The right-hand rocker panel has a dent at the rear, but it's easily
>       accessed from behind and could be straightened out very, very
>       easily.
>       The left-hand headlight bucket stands slightly proud of the fender
>       when
>       shut. These are adjusted with various shims etc. and I have no doubt
>       that it
>       could be fixed (what might have to happen is that the right-hand
>       bucket
>       needs to be raised with shims slightly, then the whole mechanism
>       lowered more so
>       they are both closed uniformly).
>       The car has been fitted with the highly desirable 10-inch rear
>       wheels, and
>       the 8-inch wheels formerly living at the rear of the car have been
>       moved to
>       the front. The 10-inch wheels were always a very expensive
>       aftermarket
>       option (I paid $900 each for mine in 1989), and now are easily worth
>       $3500 or
>       more by themselves. This is a huge selling point for this car, as
>       they are
>       very difficult to find and very desirable.
>       I didn't note the age of the tires, but they at least have plenty of
>       tread
>       left. It has Yokohama 295/50 in the rear and Falken 225/50 in the
>       front.
>       The front bumper has been described as 'serviceable' in the ad, and
>       that's
>       a very fair characterization, in the sense that if you crashed into
>       something, it would do its job. Cosmetically though, it is in pretty
>       sad shape,
>       suffering from numerous scrapes and scuffs, waves, and a very
>       pronounced split
>       on the driver's side. It is possible to repair these bumpers, but
>       enough
>       people have chosen to remove them and replace them either with
>       aftermarket
>       fiberglass units (the fit of some of those leaves a lot to be
>       desired), or
>       ginchy carbon-fiber, and NOS steel and rubber bumpers are still
>       available
>       (although pricy).
>       The rear quarter windows are not installed, but are included with
>       the car
>       in a big box of spare and leftover parts. I would reinstall them
>       right
>       away, although I know that many owners prefer to leave them out for
>       the ease of
>       cleaning the back window.
>       The left doorhandle return spring is broken, although the doorhandle
>       still
>       works perfectly well. The latch simply remains proud after the door
>       has
>       been opened, but it sits flush when it's closed.
>       The right-side door frame hits the trim at the top of the B-pillar
>       and has
>       scraped the paint away. (I forgot to check to see if the same is
>       true on
>       the driver's side).
>       Oddly, the backup lights are stuck on; whenever the key is on, they
>       are
>       illuminated no matter if the car is in reverse or not. Frequently
>       these
>       lights don't function at all; I would suspect that the problem lies
>       with a faulty
>       or misadjusted backup light switch, likely easily resolved.
>       The car is equipped with a Hall Pantera Big Bore exhaust system.
>       While
>       the Hall headers are a good match for stock tailpipes/mufflers,
>       giving a
>       noticeable horsepower improvement, the Hall tailpipes/mufflers are
>       aesthetically
>       very questionable, and aurally they take away the signature Pantera
>       'sound'.
>       Rather than sounding like an Italian exotic with a very muscular
>       heart,
>       the Hall mufflers make the car sound like an old pickup truck or a
>       speedboat.
>       There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with them, as they are
>       functioning as
>       designed (no cracks or leaks or other damage). But if this was my
>       car, at
>       a minimum I would source a good pair of stock tailpipes to return
>       the
>       proper Pantera sound; in all likelihood I would just replace the
>       whole system,
>       either with the ANSA European GTS setup, or (preferably) the system
>       produced
>       by Panteras by Wilkinson, which delivers the cosmetic appearance of
>       the
>       factory GTS exhaust, but produces considerably more horsepower (31
>       hp in a
>       back-to-back dyno test) at less cost.
>       The stock mirrors have been replaced with Vitaloni Baby Bravo
>       mirrors,
>       attached to plates glued to the inside of the quarter glass. During
>       my test
>       drive, the passenger-side mirror gave an excellent view of the
>       ground rather
>       than traffic to the rear; I confess I forgot to see if it could be
>       adjusted
>       properly.
>       Considering that the engine was rebuilt 1000 miles ago at a cost of
>       $18,000
>       (!!!!!), cosmetically it leaves more than a bit to be desired. The
>       valve
>       covers look scruffy, with the black paint peeling off. The intake
>       manifold
>       is stained, evidence of a prior fuel leak. These items should have
>       been
>       taken care of as part of the engine rebuild--a shameful oversight.
>       Fortunately it is easy to take care of it now--the valve covers and
>       intake can be
>       removed, bead-blasted, and then the valve covers can be masked and
>       painted.
>       The gearbox also looks a bit 'naff' as the English would say, and
>       would
>       benefit from a good scrubbing.
>       The engine is fitted with an Edelbrock Performer 4V intake manifold
>       (pretty
>       much the standard replacement for the stock cast-iron boat anchor),
>       and a
>       cheap economy Holley carburetor. When I drove the car a couple of
>       years
>       ago, it had a good performance Holley carb that was in dire need of
>       tuning and
>       fettling; instead the prior owner just replaced it with a carb of
>       much lower
>       specification. It is perfectly fine for cruising around, and will
>       likely
>       deliver good fuel economy, but the side-pivot floats means that it
>       will cut
>       out under very hard cornering. I would likely be putting this one on
>       Craigslist and replacing it with the factory European GTS offering,
>       the Holley
>       4777 650 double-pumper.
>       The stock air cleaner is installed, but is missing the plastic fresh
>       air
>       induction snorkel system, which was fitted to the firewall and drew
>       cool,
>       fresh air from beneath the passenger seat. So the engine is instead
>       inhaling
>       ambient air from directly above the exhaust headers on the passenger
>       side.
>       I forgot to mention that the original decklid shocks are still
>       installed
>       (upside down), and are doing a surprisingly good job of keeping the
>       decklid
>       open. Usually by this point, they would have collapsed and been
>       replaced
>       with something more generic in appearance.
>       The stock spare tire is in the rear trunk, although the normally
>       gloss
>       black wheel has been rattle-can painted with silver (which is
>       failing). This
>       late car has provisions for a hold-down (a reinforced hole in the
>       bottom of
>       the spare tire well at the right rear corner of the trunk), and the
>       factory
>       hold-down is inside the box of spare parts. Given that the spare
>       situation
>       was not well thought-out (if you get a flat tire and choose to fit
>       the
>       inflatable spare, there is absolutely no place to put the flat tire
>       and wheel,
>       and you're not going to just leave them on the side of the road, are
>       you?), I
>       would probably detail the wheel to the Nth degree and sell it to a
>       Boss
>       Mustang concours nut, as they pay a lot of money for these things.
>       The complete factory tool kit is included, and while the tools are
>       junk and
>       factory jacks have been known to fail, people have paid upwards of
>       $1500
>       for a complete tool kit, so it's a nice thing to have.
>       The decklid catch is sticky and remains stuck open, which could
>       allow the
>       decklid to bounce around if it wasn't noticed. There is a spring
>       inside the
>       catch which is not capable of forcing the latch closed as it should;
>       gentle
>       thumb pressure causes it to snap shut and then it functions properly
>       (securing the decklid). This could be as simple as
>       adjusting/lubricating it, or
>       perhaps the spring inside has broken and needs to be replaced. An
>       entirely
>       new latch can be purchased very inexpensively.
>       The weatherstripping on the body that seals to the decklid has
>       failed, and
>       while it could perhaps be quietly glued together, it should probably
>       be
>       replaced.
>       The single most significant item on any Pantera is its cooling
>       system.
>       These cars got a bad rap when they were new for cooling system woes,
>       but by
>       the 1974 model year, the cooling system was completely ironed out
>       and they ran
>       perfectly. But 1974 was a long time ago?.
>       This car is still equipped with a completely original cooling
>       system--radiator, fans, pipes etc. are all original, and well past
>       their prime. I could
>       see no evidence of a leak, and hoped that the system was functioning
>       as it
>       did in 1974.
>       I then hopped inside to check out the interior. The first thing I
>       noticed
>       were aftermarket speakers installed in holes cut in the doorpanels;
>       both
>       speakers are missing their grilles and thus their guts are on
>       display for all
>       to see (and damage). An Alpine stereo is fitted, which I naturally
>       didn't
>       bother to test.
>       Oddly, the left interior door handle has been 'clocked' incorrectly
>       so it
>       sticks up proud; it is on a splined shaft and fixing it is as simple
>       as
>       removing the three screws that hold the armrest to the door, then
>       removing the
>       single screw that holds the doorhandle in place, reclocking it on
>       the splined
>       shaft and reinstalling.
>       On first glance, the dashboard appears to be in unusually good
>       condition.
>       However, it is all artifice, as the stock dashboard is weathered and
>       cracked, and has been equipped with a dashboard cap from Hall
>       Pantera. This cap
>       is remarkably well-done, following the contours of the stock dash
>       while
>       being just that tiny bit larger. During installation, all the
>       gauges, vents,
>       switches etc. are removed from the stock dash, the cap is installed,
>       and then
>       everything is put back in place. The installation is good overall
>       but is
>       dramatically let down by the holes for the two small warning lights
>       to the
>       left of the main gauges. The cap doesn't fit as well as one would
>       hope
>       here, and those lights were left installed in the original dash, and
>       big holes
>       were gouged in the dash cap so they are visible. This looks
>       terrible, so
>       random rubber plugs were inserted to hide them, which looks only
>       slightly less
>       terrible.
>       The stock steering wheel was replaced with a Lecarra wheel, of an
>       unusually
>       small size (likely 12 inches). This provides more legroom for a
>       taller
>       driver, but increases steering effort and compromises visibility of
>       the main
>       gauges. The stock steering wheel was 14 inches (Euro cars were
>       350mm, or
>       13.7 inches) so I would very quickly unbolt this too-small wheel and
>       replace
>       it with a 14-inch Lecarra wheel.
>       The original window switches were okay when new, but didn't have the
>       longevity one would hope for, and its rare to find a car that still
>       has them
>       installed and working. This car has had them replaced with much
>       higher quality
>       Bosch switches (the originals are included with the leftover parts),
>       and
>       both windows work well. The driver's window travel is a bit
>       irregular, with a
>       tight spot about 3/4 of the way up, but that's not unusual, as
>       adjusting
>       the windows on these cars is a bit of a black art.
>       When I first turned on the key, I heard the A/C clutch engage and
>       the A/C
>       fan start up, so at least that appeared to be working. I turned them
>       off
>       and continued testing the electrics.
>       The generator light is very, very weak when the key is on and the
>       car not
>       running. Normally if a one-wire alternator is fitted, this light is
>       brightly lit all the time and needs to be unplugged. I don't know
>       what kind of
>       alternator the car has, nor can I explain why the bulb would glow
>       dimly.
>       The headlights raised normally, but the left high beam is burned
>       out. The
>       turn signals all work (although I forgot to test the brake lights or
>       taillights). The interior blower fan works, and the turn signal
>       switch still
>       functions properly, although the lever has been bent forward so that
>       it is not
>       in the correct location and is difficult to reach with your hands on
>       the
>       wheel. Some sympathetic bending would hopefully rectify that.
>       I forgot to test the horn, which is actuated by the turn signal
>       switch.
>       The shift gate is in good condition, and the stock shift knob has
>       been
>       replaced with an oversized knob from Hall Pantera. (I prefer the
>       original, and
>       hope that it is in good condition and included with the spare
>       parts).
>       The stock seats have been recovered in the stock pattern, but the
>       vinyl
>       center has been replaced with cloth, perhaps a nod to the realities
>       of the
>       car's time spent in Florida.
>       The stock carpets are gone, replaced with generic black carpeting.
>       The
>       carpet on the driver's side has started to fail, and it's wrinkled
>       and easily
>       tangles up the feet near the pedals. At a minimum it needs to be
>       glued
>       down, but some good floormats wouldn't go unnoticed (it has none).
>       A Hall Pantera center console was screwed atop the stock center
>       console.
>       While the design is good, the execution leaves a bit to be desired.
>       The
>       plastic is very thin and cheap-feeling, and it squeaks something
>       awful. If
>       it is retained, efforts need to be made to insulate it to stop the
>       squeaking.
>       The aforementioned stock headliner, which was blowing down when I
>       drove the
>       car a few years ago, has been replaced with a non-original,
>       non-matching
>       generic headliner--a great disappointment, as it would have been
>       just as easy
>       to do it properly. The installation seems good enough, but why not
>       use the
>       original material since it is available if you know where to look?
>       The sunvisor on the driver's side doesn't stay up as well as one
>       would
>       like. This is down to a minor failure on the mount, which is easily
>       rectified.
>       The mounts are plastic with knurled steel pins pressed in the end;
>       the
>       pins are supposed to be stationary while the sunvisor rotates around
>       them.
>       In this case, the pins have come free and spin in the plastic
>       housings. All
>       that is necessary is to remove them and use a strong adhesive like
>       Krazy
>       Glue to glue the pins in the housings, and all will be well.
>       The clutch pedal is very light (for a Pantera), expected on a later
>       car
>       which came with a revised clutch linkage. This car has been fitted
>       with an
>       aluminum flywheel and modern clutch (likely a Centerforce, I'm
>       guessing).
>       The brake pedal is very solid as well. The car shifts smoothly
>       through the
>       gears, although shift effort is rather high, indicating that
>       lubrication of
>       the linkage is overdue.
>       Oh, and the dome light works.
>       It was finally time for a test drive.
>       The car started very easily, and the ammeter immediately indicated
>       it was
>       charging the battery--good. I could immediately smell exhaust,
>       suggesting
>       that it is overly rich at idle. The engine was very responsive
>       blipping the
>       throttle--that's the aluminum flywheel at work.
>       The idle is very, very weird. It has a 500 rpm hunt, back and forth
>       between 500 and 1000 rpm every two seconds. It's almost as though
>       the timing is
>       advancing and retarding--it's the only thing I can think of that
>       would
>       produce this effect. (Or a vacuum leak perhaps?)
>       The light flywheel coupled with the weird idle meant it was very
>       difficult
>       to back up the car without stalling the engine. The only technique
>       that
>       seemed to work was to rev the engine to 2000 rpm and then slip the
>       clutch,
>       which makes the driver appear as though he's never driven a stick
>       shift before,
>       much less a Pantera. It was embarrassing. But if I tried to drive it
>       conventionally, the clutch 'bite' at 1000 rpm would then result in
>       the engine
>       dying when it dropped to 500 rpm. I suppose I could have learned to
>       follow
>       the sine wave and dip the clutch in and out in time to the rpm
>       increase and
>       decrease, but it was easier to just rev it and slip the clutch when
>       reversing, and more or less dump the clutch and stand on the gas
>       when pulling away
>       from a stop (which, I confess, is fun to do anyway).
>       Within a short time of departing the dealership, I noted the water
>       temperature had already risen to an indicated 230 degrees, and it
>       maintained about
>       220-230 while driving down the freeway. I hoped it was an indication
>       error,
>       because it would be worrisome if it was true.
>       The car feels very taut and solid when driving down the road, which
>       is what
>       you would expect from a car whose mileage is so low, fitted with
>       Koni
>       shocks. The steering was fine, with no undue play or pulling to one
>       side. The
>       brakes are excellent (although the solid rotors mean they would
>       likely
>       become overwhelmed if the car was subjected to extreme track duty),
>       and the
>       engine pulls reasonable well?
>       ?until 5000 rpm when it suddenly cuts out. Repeated tests showed
>       that at
>       exactly 5000 rpm indicated on the tach, the engine would stutter and
>       maintain exactly that rpm and no more, indicating some kind of rev
>       limiter has been
>       installed and set unusually low. Perhaps this was part of the
>       break-in
>       process, and it was intended to be set higher afterwards. I have no
>       idea
>       what kind of ignition system is in the car (it was too late to crawl
>       around and
>       check), so one hopes this is the explanation.
>       As long as I remained below 5000 rpm, and above idle, the engine ran
>       great.
>       It isn't especially powerful, although it has considerably more
>       power
>       than a stock 1974 Pantera (if I'm honest, a stock 1974 Pantera is a
>       bit of a
>       dog thanks to its low compression and smog gear). I wish I knew what
>       the
>       previous owner got for his $18,000 engine rebuild. Is the engine
>       still fitted
>       with the 1974 low-compression cylinder heads? There's no way of
>       telling
>       from the outside.
>       Suffice it to say that it runs well and delivers exhilarating
>       performance,
>       but it is in desperate need of tuning and fettling.
>       Back at the shop, I let the car sit and idle while I ran around with
>       a
>       floor jack. I'm pleased to report that both rear wheel bearing/axle
>       setups
>       were in fine shape, and the steering rack had no discernable play
>       (stock
>       steering racks have a bushing that wears out in about 40K miles, so
>       this one has a
>       ways to go yet).
>       I became alarmed when I noticed the temperature gauge getting very
>       close to
>       260 degrees, in the red zone, and one radiator fan hadn't turned on
>       yet.
>       Either the gauge was lying or there were serious problems here. I
>       used a
>       hand-held laser temp gun and shot the back side of the radiator,
>       which
>       indicated 250 degrees on the side with the non-working fan.
>       Yikes!
>       I quickly shut the car down, and was surprised to find that it shut
>       off
>       cleanly, showing no signs whatsoever of overheating (no spitting of
>       coolant or
>       steam, or gurgling from the pressure tanks). So while the
>       radiator/fan
>       setup is clearly not working properly, it seems the system was well
>       purged of
>       air and the tanks and radiator cap are both good.
>       Afterwards I went into the storeroom and looked at four boxes that
>       come
>       with the car; one had a bunch of parts, either old parts that had
>       been taken
>       off the car and retained (such as the window switches), or items
>       that were
>       purchased but never fitted (like a ?GTS? rear badge, wheel emblems
>       and shift
>       knob--evidently somebody considered making this car a GTS clone at
>       some
>       point).
>       Very significantly, the windshield wipers and arms were in this box
>       too.
>       The 1974 cars used different wipers which parked on the driver's
>       side
>       (halfway up the windscreen, very annoying), and most people remove
>       them and store
>       them in the trunk. These arms are completely impossible to find, and
>       if a
>       car is purchased with them absent, there is pretty much no way to
>       render the
>       wipers functional. So the fact these are here is very good news
>       indeed.
>       Other boxes contained the factory service and part manuals, and a
>       collection of club newsletters and magazines stretching back many
>       years. The last
>       box just had generic car-care items, including a small tool kit,
>       wax, rags
>       etc.
>       So what to make of this car then? Basically, it is being marketed
>       not as
>       a perfect concours car or an original survivor, but instead as a
>       good, solid
>       driver, which is an accurate assessment, apart from the various
>       mechanical
>       niggles that keep the car from just being a turn-key proposition as
>       it
>       stands.
>       Strengths:
>       Very solid chassis absent of structural rust
>       Good silver paint (all the flaws are below the beltline in the black
>       painted areas, making them harder to see)
>       10-inch rear wheels
>       Freshly rebuilt engine (in need of tuning and perhaps a better carb)
>       stronger than stock
>       Koni shocks deliver a terrific ride
>       Great Wilwood brakes
>       Decent-looking interior overall
>       No chassis squeaks/groans etc. (just some noise from the plastic
>       center
>       console)
>       Low mileage
>       All factory manuals and many newsletters/magazines included
>       Full toolkit with jack (expensive!)
>       Electrical items all appear to be working fine
>       Nice, light clutch
>       Weaknesses:
>       Flaws in the paint clearly indicating panel rust, with potential for
>       minor
>       structural rust underneath
>       Small dent in rocker panel
>       Cooling system appears to be shot (needs new radiator, fans, pipes,
>       and
>       might as well change the hoses too, which would cost about $1500 in
>       parts)
>       Trivial gearbox oil leak
>       Rear swaybar/bushings bad (I forgot to check the front, but new
>       bushings
>       are cheap)
>       Black paint overspray on bare aluminum components
>       Engine doesn't present attractively and needs cosmetic attention
>       Engine doesn't idle properly
>       Ignition cuts out completely at 5000 rpm
>       Engine bay to decklid weatherstripping broken
>       Dubious Hall exhaust lets the car down aurally and cosmetically
>       Carpet is falling apart on driver's side
>       Naked speakers in the doors
>       Unfortunate choice of non-original headliner
>       Backup lights stuck on
>       One headlight high beam out
>       In short, I think this car is a terrific driver that has some very
>       desirable features (10-inch wheels, Wilwood brakes, new modern
>       clutch, rebuilt
>       engine, really nice silver paint) that is somewhat let down by a
>       host of
>       problems, most of them small and very easily sorted, but two of them
>       significant
>       enough that I wouldn't be comfortable just jumping in the car and
>       driving it
>       away (cooling system woes most importantly, but also the engine idle
>       and high
>       rpm cut-out issues.
>       This is a car that would pay HUGE dividends to the do-it-yourselfer.
>       None
>       of the car's problems (apart from the small areas of sheetmetal
>       rust) are
>       difficult to resolve, and it would be very easy to keep improving
>       this car
>       over the space of a few weekends. Replacing the whole cooling system
>       would
>       be a big job, requiring the help of some friends to make it more
>       enjoyable,
>       and the engine problems will require some detective work, but
>       everything else
>       is fairly simple and straightforward.
>       I would say that the car would be very properly priced if it didn't
>       have
>       the many small 'issues' and two larger ones. As it stands, those
>       issues
>       either need to be resolved, or the seller needs to show some
>       financial
>       consideration for the buyer who will be left to contend with them
>       before he can
>       actually drive and enjoy the car properly.
>       Depending on how much one values one's time to spend fixing the car
>       (or
>       paying a mechanic $$$ to do it), I would say the car is probably
>       worth in the
>       region of $65-70K as it stands. Once its mechanical issues are dealt
>       with,
>       for sure it would provide the new owner tremendous enjoyment, and at
>       some
>       point in the future, while a new paint job would be a bit more
>       expensive due
>       to the need to repair small parts of several panels, it's not going
>       to have
>       the serious structural cancer that can quickly drive costs through
>       the roof.
>       I wish both the seller and the eventual buyer good luck, and hope
>       that this
>       car can find a loving home soon!
>       Mike
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
>     To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>     Sent: Mon, Jun 26, 2017 9:05 am
>     Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 156, Issue 22
>     Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
>     [6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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>     than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
>     Daily Detomaso List Digest
>     Today's Topics:
>     1. Review--1974 Pantera L for sale ([10]MikeLDrew at aol.com)
>     2. Review--1974 Pantera L for sale (Larry Finch)
>     3. (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia ([11]dgordon100 at cox.net)
>     4. Re: (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia (Ken Green)
>     5. Re: (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia (Scott Couchman)
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Message: 1
>     Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 16:39:09 -0400
>     From: [12]MikeLDrew at aol.com
>     To: [13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com,
>     [14]admin at detomasoregistry.org
>     Subject: [DeTomaso] Review--1974 Pantera L for sale
>     Message-ID: <[15]4cb78.16b59d7f.4681796c at aol.com>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>     All,
>     Yesterday I was afforded the opportunity to fully evaluate a late 1974
>     Pantera L that is currently for sale at Fantasy Junction, the
>     well-known
>     purveyor of fine motor cars, in Emeryville, CA (just across the Bay
>     Bridge from San
>     Francisco). Here is a link to the description of the car with many,
>     many
>     photos:
>     [16]http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/1982-DeTomaso%20-Pantera%20L-351%20
>     c.i.%20Cl
>     eveland%20V-8
>     I have passing familiarity with this car, as I worked on it briefly
>     (and
>     when I say 'worked on it', what I mean is that I changed the light
>     bulbs in
>     the speedometer and tachometer, and that's all) and got the opportunity
>     to
>     drive it two or three years ago. At that time, the original headliner
>     was
>     flapping down, and it had carburetor issues, but it seemed to be a
>     fundamentally good car. I gave the owner a list of 'to do' items and
>     promised to come
>     look at it again in more detail once he had finished the repairs, but
>     we
>     never managed to get together again.
>     The owner at the time was named Ken Painter. The car had belonged to
>     his
>     father, and clearly he had been passionate about it. Ken inherited it,
>     and
>     confessed to having only a passing interest in it. He attended a few
>     club
>     events, but clearly his heart wasn't in it, and he said he planned to
>     sell
>     it.
>     He attempted to market it locally through an ad in the Pantera Club of
>     Northern California newsletter, but most of the members of the club
>     already have
>     Panteras, so although he got a few nibbles, he got no bites. He
>     eventually sold it through Fantasy Junction to a speculative buyer.
>     That fellow now
>     technically owns the car, but he has decided to sell it so Fantasy
>     Junction
>     is marketing it for him.
>     The car was originally painted the horrid Army Tank Green color found
>     on
>     (thankfully few) L-model Panteras, but at some point in its life, it
>     was
>     repainted a nice shade of silver, and at that time the chrome trim was
>     all
>     blacked out. It spent its early years in Florida, which is
>     automatically
>     worrisome due to the high humidity and potential for rust, but its
>     latter life was
>     spent in California, where it was used very sparingly.
>     It recently was the subject of an obscenely overpriced engine overhaul,
>     and
>     the new motor is just barely broken in, with a thousand miles or so on
>     it.
>     Upon arriving at Fantasy Junction, I found the car parked on their
>     four-post lift, which affords an excellent opportunity to inspect the
>     underside. I
>     immediately zoomed in to the rear portion of the chassis, where rust
>     can
>     take hold and be extremely expensive and labor-intensive to repair.
>     Repeated
>     whacks with a hammer and pointed punch revealed that structurally, the
>     car
>     is absolutely rock-solid. Despite the fact that owner-added drain holes
>     (so necessary in these cars) were never created, nevertheless the
>     chassis is
>     quite stout.
>     The suspension has been fitted with top-of-the-line adjustable Koni
>     coil-over shocks and Hypercoil springs. The extensive corrosion on the
>     ride
>     height adjustment collars indicates that they are very old, and
>     changing their
>     settings would require a lot of work to free up the adjusters. Having
>     said
>     that, these are a 'set and forget' component, and there would be no
>     reason
>     (other than cosmetics) to deal with them. (On my test drive, they
>     worked
>     exceptionally well, delivering a firm but comfortable ride).
>     The right-side upright has been fitted with grease fittings for the
>     lower
>     shaft, while the left-side doesn't have them.
>     The car has a stock-sized aftermarket rear chrome sway bar, but the
>     chrome
>     is pitted with surface rust. The sway bar bushings appear to be
>     original,
>     and are largely perished. The single best improvement one can make to a
>     Pantera, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, is to upgrade from the stock 3/4
>     inch
>     rear sway bar to the Euro GTS-specification 7/8 inch bar. Given that
>     this
>     car's existing components are both in a somewhat tired state, this is a
>     $200
>     investment I would make right away (although it's not strictly
>     'necessary').
>     The engine appears to be completely tight and absent of any leaks (as
>     it
>     should be considering it's new), while there is a tiny drop of oil
>     leaking
>     from the transaxle drain plug. I don't know how fresh the transaxle
>     fluid is,
>     but I suspect it's been changed recently. Perhaps a bit of tightening
>     on
>     the plug would fix the leak; if not, removing it and wrapping with
>     Teflon
>     tape should do the trick. (At that time, a decision could be made to
>     refill
>     with the existing oil if it's fresh, or replace it--it requires about 7
>     pints of GL-5 80w90 gearbox oil).
>     It has become customary to fit a ?DETOMASO? logo plaque to the rear of
>     the
>     chassis in between the inner sway bar mounts. These cast aluminum
>     plaques
>     were originally fitted to the valve covers on the 1971-72 Panteras and
>     were
>     held in place with glue; after the first one fell off, usually owners
>     put
>     the remaining one at the rear of the chassis, where it happens to fit
>     perfectly. It also disguises damage to the lip on the back of the
>     chassis rail
>     caused by incautious jacking. This car has evidence that it had this
>     plaque
>     at one time (in the form of a pair of screw holes), but the plaque has
>     disappeared, and the lip is a little bit wrinkled. This is another
>     trivial
>     cosmetic issue, easily resolved with hammer and dolly work, and the
>     plaques are
>     readily available and not very expensive if one wanted to follow
>     convention.
>     There is evidence of sloppy cosmetic work, as the cast aluminum gearbox
>     mounts are partially covered in black overspray, likely from a
>     rattle-can
>     touch-up of the underside chassis. A bit of time with a rag and laquer
>     thinner
>     would go a long way there.
>     While looking up, I was surprised to see that the removable fiberglass
>     trunk was broken, with a big crack in it. This is invisible from above,
>     but
>     suggests it was subjected to carrying an extreme load at one point.
>     Fortunately this is extremely easy to fix, and it is completely
>     invisible normally.
>     The clutch has been equipped with a braided stainless steel flex hose,
>     replacing the awful red plastic hose that came from the factory. This
>     is an
>     excellent (and I would say mandatory) upgrade.
>     I was surprised and pleased to find that the car had been equipped with
>     Wilwood four-piston brake calipers on all four corners. The stock rear
>     calipers have been retained for their parking brake function only. The
>     Wilwood
>     calipers are their larger Superlite II model, but the car uses stock,
>     unvented rotors. (Vented rotors are readily available and not overly
>     expensive
>     should an owner decide to upgrade). Naturally, the ancient rubber hoses
>     have
>     been replaced with braided stainless steel/Teflon hoses as part of the
>     caliper upgrade.
>     As part of the system, the stock master cylinder has been replaced with
>     a
>     Ford SVO aluminum unit with an adapter bracket from Pantera Performance
>     Center. It has Wilwood 2psi residual pressure valves plumbed into the
>     system,
>     which prevents the caliper pistons from migrating back into the
>     calipers,
>     which could produce a 'long' brake pedal on the first application. They
>     still
>     sell this whole brake system as a complete kit.
>     Proceeding forward, I could see that the original water pipes are still
>     present, and have surface rust. There is no indication of any water
>     leak, but
>     if the cooling system is serviced (more on that in a moment) it makes
>     sense
>     to replace them with new stainless steel pipes. (I recently worked on a
>     similar low-mileage Pantera whose pipes were visually in the same
>     shape; when
>     I removed them they crumbled in my hands at the ends where they mated
>     with
>     the rubber hoses--although they weren't leaking either, a leak was not
>     long
>     in coming).
>     The front valance is a little bit wavy at the bottom and has surface
>     rust
>     on it, but is undented. This is a structural location, and either
>     ambient
>     water or water from a leaky radiator can cause this area to rust out,
>     but the
>     one on this car seems to be in reasonable shape.
>     Proceeding to the exterior of the car, I noted that the silver paint
>     appeared to be of very high quality, but is starting to show its age.
>     There are
>     certain parts of the body where rust first materializes, which
>     manifests
>     itself in bubbling in the paint. This car has hand-sized areas of
>     obvious
>     corrosion on several panels--the lower rear of the left-hand front
>     fender, the
>     lower front of the left-hand quarter panel, the rocker panel
>     immediately
>     beneath, and the lower front of the right-hand quarter panel.
>     This is what I would call 'typical' rust on these cars. It doesn't
>     appear
>     to be overly significant and is far from catastrophic. Someday,
>     somebody
>     will repaint this car, and when that happens, at a minimum these areas
>     will
>     need to be cut out and new patches installed. Too, it's likely that
>     there
>     is internal rust to the bottom of the B-pillar posts and perhaps the
>     middle
>     of the three rocker panels, so those would be attended to at the same
>     time.
>     But if I was to buy this car as a driver, I would comfortably drive it
>     as-is for many years to come, and chalk all that up to being a
>     'someday'
>     project.
>     The right-hand rocker panel has a dent at the rear, but it's easily
>     accessed from behind and could be straightened out very, very easily.
>     The left-hand headlight bucket stands slightly proud of the fender when
>     shut. These are adjusted with various shims etc. and I have no doubt
>     that it
>     could be fixed (what might have to happen is that the right-hand bucket
>     needs to be raised with shims slightly, then the whole mechanism
>     lowered more so
>     they are both closed uniformly).
>     The car has been fitted with the highly desirable 10-inch rear wheels,
>     and
>     the 8-inch wheels formerly living at the rear of the car have been
>     moved to
>     the front. The 10-inch wheels were always a very expensive aftermarket
>     option (I paid $900 each for mine in 1989), and now are easily worth
>     $3500 or
>     more by themselves. This is a huge selling point for this car, as they
>     are
>     very difficult to find and very desirable.
>     I didn't note the age of the tires, but they at least have plenty of
>     tread
>     left. It has Yokohama 295/50 in the rear and Falken 225/50 in the
>     front.
>     The front bumper has been described as 'serviceable' in the ad, and
>     that's
>     a very fair characterization, in the sense that if you crashed into
>     something, it would do its job. Cosmetically though, it is in pretty
>     sad shape,
>     suffering from numerous scrapes and scuffs, waves, and a very
>     pronounced split
>     on the driver's side. It is possible to repair these bumpers, but
>     enough
>     people have chosen to remove them and replace them either with
>     aftermarket
>     fiberglass units (the fit of some of those leaves a lot to be desired),
>     or
>     ginchy carbon-fiber, and NOS steel and rubber bumpers are still
>     available
>     (although pricy).
>     The rear quarter windows are not installed, but are included with the
>     car
>     in a big box of spare and leftover parts. I would reinstall them right
>     away, although I know that many owners prefer to leave them out for the
>     ease of
>     cleaning the back window.
>     The left doorhandle return spring is broken, although the doorhandle
>     still
>     works perfectly well. The latch simply remains proud after the door has
>     been opened, but it sits flush when it's closed.
>     The right-side door frame hits the trim at the top of the B-pillar and
>     has
>     scraped the paint away. (I forgot to check to see if the same is true
>     on
>     the driver's side).
>     Oddly, the backup lights are stuck on; whenever the key is on, they are
>     illuminated no matter if the car is in reverse or not. Frequently these
>     lights don't function at all; I would suspect that the problem lies
>     with a faulty
>     or misadjusted backup light switch, likely easily resolved.
>     The car is equipped with a Hall Pantera Big Bore exhaust system. While
>     the Hall headers are a good match for stock tailpipes/mufflers, giving
>     a
>     noticeable horsepower improvement, the Hall tailpipes/mufflers are
>     aesthetically
>     very questionable, and aurally they take away the signature Pantera
>     'sound'.
>     Rather than sounding like an Italian exotic with a very muscular heart,
>     the Hall mufflers make the car sound like an old pickup truck or a
>     speedboat.
>     There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with them, as they are functioning
>     as
>     designed (no cracks or leaks or other damage). But if this was my car,
>     at
>     a minimum I would source a good pair of stock tailpipes to return the
>     proper Pantera sound; in all likelihood I would just replace the whole
>     system,
>     either with the ANSA European GTS setup, or (preferably) the system
>     produced
>     by Panteras by Wilkinson, which delivers the cosmetic appearance of the
>     factory GTS exhaust, but produces considerably more horsepower (31 hp
>     in a
>     back-to-back dyno test) at less cost.
>     The stock mirrors have been replaced with Vitaloni Baby Bravo mirrors,
>     attached to plates glued to the inside of the quarter glass. During my
>     test
>     drive, the passenger-side mirror gave an excellent view of the ground
>     rather
>     than traffic to the rear; I confess I forgot to see if it could be
>     adjusted
>     properly.
>     Considering that the engine was rebuilt 1000 miles ago at a cost of
>     $18,000
>     (!!!!!), cosmetically it leaves more than a bit to be desired. The
>     valve
>     covers look scruffy, with the black paint peeling off. The intake
>     manifold
>     is stained, evidence of a prior fuel leak. These items should have been
>     taken care of as part of the engine rebuild--a shameful oversight.
>     Fortunately it is easy to take care of it now--the valve covers and
>     intake can be
>     removed, bead-blasted, and then the valve covers can be masked and
>     painted.
>     The gearbox also looks a bit 'naff' as the English would say, and would
>     benefit from a good scrubbing.
>     The engine is fitted with an Edelbrock Performer 4V intake manifold
>     (pretty
>     much the standard replacement for the stock cast-iron boat anchor), and
>     a
>     cheap economy Holley carburetor. When I drove the car a couple of years
>     ago, it had a good performance Holley carb that was in dire need of
>     tuning and
>     fettling; instead the prior owner just replaced it with a carb of much
>     lower
>     specification. It is perfectly fine for cruising around, and will
>     likely
>     deliver good fuel economy, but the side-pivot floats means that it will
>     cut
>     out under very hard cornering. I would likely be putting this one on
>     Craigslist and replacing it with the factory European GTS offering, the
>     Holley
>     4777 650 double-pumper.
>     The stock air cleaner is installed, but is missing the plastic fresh
>     air
>     induction snorkel system, which was fitted to the firewall and drew
>     cool,
>     fresh air from beneath the passenger seat. So the engine is instead
>     inhaling
>     ambient air from directly above the exhaust headers on the passenger
>     side.
>     I forgot to mention that the original decklid shocks are still
>     installed
>     (upside down), and are doing a surprisingly good job of keeping the
>     decklid
>     open. Usually by this point, they would have collapsed and been
>     replaced
>     with something more generic in appearance.
>     The stock spare tire is in the rear trunk, although the normally gloss
>     black wheel has been rattle-can painted with silver (which is failing).
>     This
>     late car has provisions for a hold-down (a reinforced hole in the
>     bottom of
>     the spare tire well at the right rear corner of the trunk), and the
>     factory
>     hold-down is inside the box of spare parts. Given that the spare
>     situation
>     was not well thought-out (if you get a flat tire and choose to fit the
>     inflatable spare, there is absolutely no place to put the flat tire and
>     wheel,
>     and you're not going to just leave them on the side of the road, are
>     you?), I
>     would probably detail the wheel to the Nth degree and sell it to a Boss
>     Mustang concours nut, as they pay a lot of money for these things.
>     The complete factory tool kit is included, and while the tools are junk
>     and
>     factory jacks have been known to fail, people have paid upwards of
>     $1500
>     for a complete tool kit, so it's a nice thing to have.
>     The decklid catch is sticky and remains stuck open, which could allow
>     the
>     decklid to bounce around if it wasn't noticed. There is a spring inside
>     the
>     catch which is not capable of forcing the latch closed as it should;
>     gentle
>     thumb pressure causes it to snap shut and then it functions properly
>     (securing the decklid). This could be as simple as
>     adjusting/lubricating it, or
>     perhaps the spring inside has broken and needs to be replaced. An
>     entirely
>     new latch can be purchased very inexpensively.
>     The weatherstripping on the body that seals to the decklid has failed,
>     and
>     while it could perhaps be quietly glued together, it should probably be
>     replaced.
>     The single most significant item on any Pantera is its cooling system.
>     These cars got a bad rap when they were new for cooling system woes,
>     but by
>     the 1974 model year, the cooling system was completely ironed out and
>     they ran
>     perfectly. But 1974 was a long time ago?.
>     This car is still equipped with a completely original cooling
>     system--radiator, fans, pipes etc. are all original, and well past
>     their prime. I could
>     see no evidence of a leak, and hoped that the system was functioning as
>     it
>     did in 1974.
>     I then hopped inside to check out the interior. The first thing I
>     noticed
>     were aftermarket speakers installed in holes cut in the doorpanels;
>     both
>     speakers are missing their grilles and thus their guts are on display
>     for all
>     to see (and damage). An Alpine stereo is fitted, which I naturally
>     didn't
>     bother to test.
>     Oddly, the left interior door handle has been 'clocked' incorrectly so
>     it
>     sticks up proud; it is on a splined shaft and fixing it is as simple as
>     removing the three screws that hold the armrest to the door, then
>     removing the
>     single screw that holds the doorhandle in place, reclocking it on the
>     splined
>     shaft and reinstalling.
>     On first glance, the dashboard appears to be in unusually good
>     condition.
>     However, it is all artifice, as the stock dashboard is weathered and
>     cracked, and has been equipped with a dashboard cap from Hall Pantera.
>     This cap
>     is remarkably well-done, following the contours of the stock dash while
>     being just that tiny bit larger. During installation, all the gauges,
>     vents,
>     switches etc. are removed from the stock dash, the cap is installed,
>     and then
>     everything is put back in place. The installation is good overall but
>     is
>     dramatically let down by the holes for the two small warning lights to
>     the
>     left of the main gauges. The cap doesn't fit as well as one would hope
>     here, and those lights were left installed in the original dash, and
>     big holes
>     were gouged in the dash cap so they are visible. This looks terrible,
>     so
>     random rubber plugs were inserted to hide them, which looks only
>     slightly less
>     terrible.
>     The stock steering wheel was replaced with a Lecarra wheel, of an
>     unusually
>     small size (likely 12 inches). This provides more legroom for a taller
>     driver, but increases steering effort and compromises visibility of the
>     main
>     gauges. The stock steering wheel was 14 inches (Euro cars were 350mm,
>     or
>     13.7 inches) so I would very quickly unbolt this too-small wheel and
>     replace
>     it with a 14-inch Lecarra wheel.
>     The original window switches were okay when new, but didn't have the
>     longevity one would hope for, and its rare to find a car that still has
>     them
>     installed and working. This car has had them replaced with much higher
>     quality
>     Bosch switches (the originals are included with the leftover parts),
>     and
>     both windows work well. The driver's window travel is a bit irregular,
>     with a
>     tight spot about 3/4 of the way up, but that's not unusual, as
>     adjusting
>     the windows on these cars is a bit of a black art.
>     When I first turned on the key, I heard the A/C clutch engage and the
>     A/C
>     fan start up, so at least that appeared to be working. I turned them
>     off
>     and continued testing the electrics.
>     The generator light is very, very weak when the key is on and the car
>     not
>     running. Normally if a one-wire alternator is fitted, this light is
>     brightly lit all the time and needs to be unplugged. I don't know what
>     kind of
>     alternator the car has, nor can I explain why the bulb would glow
>     dimly.
>     The headlights raised normally, but the left high beam is burned out.
>     The
>     turn signals all work (although I forgot to test the brake lights or
>     taillights). The interior blower fan works, and the turn signal switch
>     still
>     functions properly, although the lever has been bent forward so that it
>     is not
>     in the correct location and is difficult to reach with your hands on
>     the
>     wheel. Some sympathetic bending would hopefully rectify that.
>     I forgot to test the horn, which is actuated by the turn signal switch.
>     The shift gate is in good condition, and the stock shift knob has been
>     replaced with an oversized knob from Hall Pantera. (I prefer the
>     original, and
>     hope that it is in good condition and included with the spare parts).
>     The stock seats have been recovered in the stock pattern, but the vinyl
>     center has been replaced with cloth, perhaps a nod to the realities of
>     the
>     car's time spent in Florida.
>     The stock carpets are gone, replaced with generic black carpeting. The
>     carpet on the driver's side has started to fail, and it's wrinkled and
>     easily
>     tangles up the feet near the pedals. At a minimum it needs to be glued
>     down, but some good floormats wouldn't go unnoticed (it has none).
>     A Hall Pantera center console was screwed atop the stock center
>     console.
>     While the design is good, the execution leaves a bit to be desired. The
>     plastic is very thin and cheap-feeling, and it squeaks something awful.
>     If
>     it is retained, efforts need to be made to insulate it to stop the
>     squeaking.
>     The aforementioned stock headliner, which was blowing down when I drove
>     the
>     car a few years ago, has been replaced with a non-original,
>     non-matching
>     generic headliner--a great disappointment, as it would have been just
>     as easy
>     to do it properly. The installation seems good enough, but why not use
>     the
>     original material since it is available if you know where to look?
>     The sunvisor on the driver's side doesn't stay up as well as one would
>     like. This is down to a minor failure on the mount, which is easily
>     rectified.
>     The mounts are plastic with knurled steel pins pressed in the end; the
>     pins are supposed to be stationary while the sunvisor rotates around
>     them.
>     In this case, the pins have come free and spin in the plastic housings.
>     All
>     that is necessary is to remove them and use a strong adhesive like
>     Krazy
>     Glue to glue the pins in the housings, and all will be well.
>     The clutch pedal is very light (for a Pantera), expected on a later car
>     which came with a revised clutch linkage. This car has been fitted with
>     an
>     aluminum flywheel and modern clutch (likely a Centerforce, I'm
>     guessing).
>     The brake pedal is very solid as well. The car shifts smoothly through
>     the
>     gears, although shift effort is rather high, indicating that
>     lubrication of
>     the linkage is overdue.
>     Oh, and the dome light works.
>     It was finally time for a test drive.
>     The car started very easily, and the ammeter immediately indicated it
>     was
>     charging the battery--good. I could immediately smell exhaust,
>     suggesting
>     that it is overly rich at idle. The engine was very responsive blipping
>     the
>     throttle--that's the aluminum flywheel at work.
>     The idle is very, very weird. It has a 500 rpm hunt, back and forth
>     between 500 and 1000 rpm every two seconds. It's almost as though the
>     timing is
>     advancing and retarding--it's the only thing I can think of that would
>     produce this effect. (Or a vacuum leak perhaps?)
>     The light flywheel coupled with the weird idle meant it was very
>     difficult
>     to back up the car without stalling the engine. The only technique that
>     seemed to work was to rev the engine to 2000 rpm and then slip the
>     clutch,
>     which makes the driver appear as though he's never driven a stick shift
>     before,
>     much less a Pantera. It was embarrassing. But if I tried to drive it
>     conventionally, the clutch 'bite' at 1000 rpm would then result in the
>     engine
>     dying when it dropped to 500 rpm. I suppose I could have learned to
>     follow
>     the sine wave and dip the clutch in and out in time to the rpm increase
>     and
>     decrease, but it was easier to just rev it and slip the clutch when
>     reversing, and more or less dump the clutch and stand on the gas when
>     pulling away
>     from a stop (which, I confess, is fun to do anyway).
>     Within a short time of departing the dealership, I noted the water
>     temperature had already risen to an indicated 230 degrees, and it
>     maintained about
>     220-230 while driving down the freeway. I hoped it was an indication
>     error,
>     because it would be worrisome if it was true.
>     The car feels very taut and solid when driving down the road, which is
>     what
>     you would expect from a car whose mileage is so low, fitted with Koni
>     shocks. The steering was fine, with no undue play or pulling to one
>     side. The
>     brakes are excellent (although the solid rotors mean they would likely
>     become overwhelmed if the car was subjected to extreme track duty), and
>     the
>     engine pulls reasonable well?
>     ?until 5000 rpm when it suddenly cuts out. Repeated tests showed that
>     at
>     exactly 5000 rpm indicated on the tach, the engine would stutter and
>     maintain exactly that rpm and no more, indicating some kind of rev
>     limiter has been
>     installed and set unusually low. Perhaps this was part of the break-in
>     process, and it was intended to be set higher afterwards. I have no
>     idea
>     what kind of ignition system is in the car (it was too late to crawl
>     around and
>     check), so one hopes this is the explanation.
>     As long as I remained below 5000 rpm, and above idle, the engine ran
>     great.
>     It isn't especially powerful, although it has considerably more power
>     than a stock 1974 Pantera (if I'm honest, a stock 1974 Pantera is a bit
>     of a
>     dog thanks to its low compression and smog gear). I wish I knew what
>     the
>     previous owner got for his $18,000 engine rebuild. Is the engine still
>     fitted
>     with the 1974 low-compression cylinder heads? There's no way of telling
>     from the outside.
>     Suffice it to say that it runs well and delivers exhilarating
>     performance,
>     but it is in desperate need of tuning and fettling.
>     Back at the shop, I let the car sit and idle while I ran around with a
>     floor jack. I'm pleased to report that both rear wheel bearing/axle
>     setups
>     were in fine shape, and the steering rack had no discernable play
>     (stock
>     steering racks have a bushing that wears out in about 40K miles, so
>     this one has a
>     ways to go yet).
>     I became alarmed when I noticed the temperature gauge getting very
>     close to
>     260 degrees, in the red zone, and one radiator fan hadn't turned on
>     yet.
>     Either the gauge was lying or there were serious problems here. I used
>     a
>     hand-held laser temp gun and shot the back side of the radiator, which
>     indicated 250 degrees on the side with the non-working fan.
>     Yikes!
>     I quickly shut the car down, and was surprised to find that it shut off
>     cleanly, showing no signs whatsoever of overheating (no spitting of
>     coolant or
>     steam, or gurgling from the pressure tanks). So while the radiator/fan
>     setup is clearly not working properly, it seems the system was well
>     purged of
>     air and the tanks and radiator cap are both good.
>     Afterwards I went into the storeroom and looked at four boxes that come
>     with the car; one had a bunch of parts, either old parts that had been
>     taken
>     off the car and retained (such as the window switches), or items that
>     were
>     purchased but never fitted (like a ?GTS? rear badge, wheel emblems and
>     shift
>     knob--evidently somebody considered making this car a GTS clone at some
>     point).
>     Very significantly, the windshield wipers and arms were in this box
>     too.
>     The 1974 cars used different wipers which parked on the driver's side
>     (halfway up the windscreen, very annoying), and most people remove them
>     and store
>     them in the trunk. These arms are completely impossible to find, and if
>     a
>     car is purchased with them absent, there is pretty much no way to
>     render the
>     wipers functional. So the fact these are here is very good news indeed.
>     Other boxes contained the factory service and part manuals, and a
>     collection of club newsletters and magazines stretching back many
>     years. The last
>     box just had generic car-care items, including a small tool kit, wax,
>     rags
>     etc.
>     So what to make of this car then? Basically, it is being marketed not
>     as
>     a perfect concours car or an original survivor, but instead as a good,
>     solid
>     driver, which is an accurate assessment, apart from the various
>     mechanical
>     niggles that keep the car from just being a turn-key proposition as it
>     stands.
>     Strengths:
>     Very solid chassis absent of structural rust
>     Good silver paint (all the flaws are below the beltline in the black
>     painted areas, making them harder to see)
>     10-inch rear wheels
>     Freshly rebuilt engine (in need of tuning and perhaps a better carb)
>     stronger than stock
>     Koni shocks deliver a terrific ride
>     Great Wilwood brakes
>     Decent-looking interior overall
>     No chassis squeaks/groans etc. (just some noise from the plastic center
>     console)
>     Low mileage
>     All factory manuals and many newsletters/magazines included
>     Full toolkit with jack (expensive!)
>     Electrical items all appear to be working fine
>     Nice, light clutch
>     Weaknesses:
>     Flaws in the paint clearly indicating panel rust, with potential for
>     minor
>     structural rust underneath
>     Small dent in rocker panel
>     Cooling system appears to be shot (needs new radiator, fans, pipes, and
>     might as well change the hoses too, which would cost about $1500 in
>     parts)
>     Trivial gearbox oil leak
>     Rear swaybar/bushings bad (I forgot to check the front, but new
>     bushings
>     are cheap)
>     Black paint overspray on bare aluminum components
>     Engine doesn't present attractively and needs cosmetic attention
>     Engine doesn't idle properly
>     Ignition cuts out completely at 5000 rpm
>     Engine bay to decklid weatherstripping broken
>     Dubious Hall exhaust lets the car down aurally and cosmetically
>     Carpet is falling apart on driver's side
>     Naked speakers in the doors
>     Unfortunate choice of non-original headliner
>     Backup lights stuck on
>     One headlight high beam out
>     In short, I think this car is a terrific driver that has some very
>     desirable features (10-inch wheels, Wilwood brakes, new modern clutch,
>     rebuilt
>     engine, really nice silver paint) that is somewhat let down by a host
>     of
>     problems, most of them small and very easily sorted, but two of them
>     significant
>     enough that I wouldn't be comfortable just jumping in the car and
>     driving it
>     away (cooling system woes most importantly, but also the engine idle
>     and high
>     rpm cut-out issues.
>     This is a car that would pay HUGE dividends to the do-it-yourselfer.
>     None
>     of the car's problems (apart from the small areas of sheetmetal rust)
>     are
>     difficult to resolve, and it would be very easy to keep improving this
>     car
>     over the space of a few weekends. Replacing the whole cooling system
>     would
>     be a big job, requiring the help of some friends to make it more
>     enjoyable,
>     and the engine problems will require some detective work, but
>     everything else
>     is fairly simple and straightforward.
>     I would say that the car would be very properly priced if it didn't
>     have
>     the many small 'issues' and two larger ones. As it stands, those issues
>     either need to be resolved, or the seller needs to show some financial
>     consideration for the buyer who will be left to contend with them
>     before he can
>     actually drive and enjoy the car properly.
>     Depending on how much one values one's time to spend fixing the car (or
>     paying a mechanic $$$ to do it), I would say the car is probably worth
>     in the
>     region of $65-70K as it stands. Once its mechanical issues are dealt
>     with,
>     for sure it would provide the new owner tremendous enjoyment, and at
>     some
>     point in the future, while a new paint job would be a bit more
>     expensive due
>     to the need to repair small parts of several panels, it's not going to
>     have
>     the serious structural cancer that can quickly drive costs through the
>     roof.
>     I wish both the seller and the eventual buyer good luck, and hope that
>     this
>     car can find a loving home soon!
>     Mike
>     -------------- next part --------------
>     All,
>     Yesterday I was afforded the opportunity to fully evaluate a late 1974
>     Pantera L that is currently for sale at Fantasy Junction, the
>     well-known purveyor of fine motor cars, in Emeryville, CA (just across
>     the Bay Bridge from San Francisco). Here is a link to the description
>     of the car with many, many photos:
>     [17]http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/1982-DeTomaso%20-Pantera%20L-351%20
>     c.i.
>     %20Cleveland%20V-8
>     I have passing familiarity with this car, as I worked on it briefly
>     (and when I say 'worked on it', what I mean is that I changed the light
>     bulbs in the speedometer and tachometer, and that's all) and got the
>     opportunity to drive it two or three years ago. At that time, the
>     original headliner was flapping down, and it had carburetor issues, but
>     it seemed to be a fundamentally good car. I gave the owner a list of
>     'to do' items and promised to come look at it again in more detail once
>     he had finished the repairs, but we never managed to get together
>     again.
>     The owner at the time was named Ken Painter. The car had belonged to
>     his father, and clearly he had been passionate about it. Ken inherited
>     it, and confessed to having only a passing interest in it. He attended
>     a few club events, but clearly his heart wasn't in it, and he said he
>     planned to sell it.
>     He attempted to market it locally through an ad in the Pantera Club of
>     Northern California newsletter, but most of the members of the club
>     already have Panteras, so although he got a few nibbles, he got no
>     bites. He eventually sold it through Fantasy Junction to a speculative
>     buyer. That fellow now technically owns the car, but he has decided to
>     sell it so Fantasy Junction is marketing it for him.
>     The car was originally painted the horrid Army Tank Green color found
>     on (thankfully few) L-model Panteras, but at some point in its life, it
>     was repainted a nice shade of silver, and at that time the chrome trim
>     was all blacked out. It spent its early years in Florida, which is
>     automatically worrisome due to the high humidity and potential for
>     rust, but its latter life was spent in California, where it was used
>     very sparingly.
>     It recently was the subject of an obscenely overpriced engine overhaul,
>     and the new motor is just barely broken in, with a thousand miles or so
>     on it.
>     Upon arriving at Fantasy Junction, I found the car parked on their
>     four-post lift, which affords an excellent opportunity to inspect the
>     underside. I immediately zoomed in to the rear portion of the chassis,
>     where rust can take hold and be extremely expensive and labor-intensive
>     to repair. Repeated whacks with a hammer and pointed punch revealed
>     that structurally, the car is absolutely rock-solid. Despite the fact
>     that owner-added drain holes (so necessary in these cars) were never
>     created, nevertheless the chassis is quite stout.
>     The suspension has been fitted with top-of-the-line adjustable Koni
>     coil-over shocks and Hypercoil springs. The extensive corrosion on the
>     ride height adjustment collars indicates that they are very old, and
>     changing their settings would require a lot of work to free up the
>     adjusters. Having said that, these are a 'set and forget' component,
>     and there would be no reason (other than cosmetics) to deal with them.
>     (On my test drive, they worked exceptionally well, delivering a firm
>     but comfortable ride).
>     The right-side upright has been fitted with grease fittings for the
>     lower shaft, while the left-side doesn't have them.
>     The car has a stock-sized aftermarket rear chrome sway bar, but the
>     chrome is pitted with surface rust. The sway bar bushings appear to be
>     original, and are largely perished. The single best improvement one
>     can make to a Pantera, on a dollar-for-dollar basis, is to upgrade from
>     the stock 3/4 inch rear sway bar to the Euro GTS-specification 7/8 inch
>     bar. Given that this car's existing components are both in a somewhat
>     tired state, this is a $200 investment I would make right away
>     (although it's not strictly 'necessary').
>     The engine appears to be completely tight and absent of any leaks (as
>     it should be considering it's new), while there is a tiny drop of oil
>     leaking from the transaxle drain plug. I don't know how fresh the
>     transaxle fluid is, but I suspect it's been changed recently. Perhaps
>     a bit of tightening on the plug would fix the leak; if not, removing it
>     and wrapping with Teflon tape should do the trick. (At that time, a
>     decision could be made to refill with the existing oil if it's fresh,
>     or replace it--it requires about 7 pints of GL-5 80w90 gearbox oil).
>     It has become customary to fit a aDETOMASOa logo plaque to the rear of
>     the chassis in between the inner sway bar mounts. These cast aluminum
>     plaques were originally fitted to the valve covers on the 1971-72
>     Panteras and were held in place with glue; after the first one fell
>     off, usually owners put the remaining one at the rear of the chassis,
>     where it happens to fit perfectly. It also disguises damage to the lip
>     on the back of the chassis rail caused by incautious jacking. This car
>     has evidence that it had this plaque at one time (in the form of a pair
>     of screw holes), but the plaque has disappeared, and the lip is a
>     little bit wrinkled. This is another trivial cosmetic issue, easily
>     resolved with hammer and dolly work, and the plaques are readily
>     available and not very expensive if one wanted to follow convention.
>     There is evidence of sloppy cosmetic work, as the cast aluminum gearbox
>     mounts are partially covered in black overspray, likely from a
>     rattle-can touch-up of the underside chassis. A bit of time with a rag
>     and laquer thinner would go a long way there.
>     While looking up, I was surprised to see that the removable fiberglass
>     trunk was broken, with a big crack in it. This is invisible from
>     above, but suggests it was subjected to carrying an extreme load at one
>     point. Fortunately this is extremely easy to fix, and it is completely
>     invisible normally.
>     The clutch has been equipped with a braided stainless steel flex hose,
>     replacing the awful red plastic hose that came from the factory. This
>     is an excellent (and I would say mandatory) upgrade.
>     I was surprised and pleased to find that the car had been equipped with
>     Wilwood four-piston brake calipers on all four corners. The stock rear
>     calipers have been retained for their parking brake function only. The
>     Wilwood calipers are their larger Superlite II model, but the car uses
>     stock, unvented rotors. (Vented rotors are readily available and not
>     overly expensive should an owner decide to upgrade). Naturally, the
>     ancient rubber hoses have been replaced with braided stainless
>     steel/Teflon hoses as part of the caliper upgrade.
>     As part of the system, the stock master cylinder has been replaced with
>     a Ford SVO aluminum unit with an adapter bracket from Pantera
>     Performance Center. It has Wilwood 2psi residual pressure valves
>     plumbed into the system, which prevents the caliper pistons from
>     migrating back into the calipers, which could produce a 'long' brake
>     pedal on the first application. They still sell this whole brake
>     system as a complete kit.
>     Proceeding forward, I could see that the original water pipes are still
>     present, and have surface rust. There is no indication of any water
>     leak, but if the cooling system is serviced (more on that in a moment)
>     it makes sense to replace them with new stainless steel pipes. (I
>     recently worked on a similar low-mileage Pantera whose pipes were
>     visually in the same shape; when I removed them they crumbled in my
>     hands at the ends where they mated with the rubber hoses--although they
>     weren't leaking either, a leak was not long in coming).
>     The front valance is a little bit wavy at the bottom and has surface
>     rust on it, but is undented. This is a structural location, and either
>     ambient water or water from a leaky radiator can cause this area to
>     rust out, but the one on this car seems to be in reasonable shape.
>     Proceeding to the exterior of the car, I noted that the silver paint
>     appeared to be of very high quality, but is starting to show its age.
>     There are certain parts of the body where rust first materializes,
>     which manifests itself in bubbling in the paint. This car has
>     hand-sized areas of obvious corrosion on several panels--the lower rear
>     of the left-hand front fender, the lower front of the left-hand quarter
>     panel, the rocker panel immediately beneath, and the lower front of the
>     right-hand quarter panel.
>     This is what I would call 'typical' rust on these cars. It doesn't
>     appear to be overly significant and is far from catastrophic. Someday,
>     somebody will repaint this car, and when that happens, at a minimum
>     these areas will need to be cut out and new patches installed. Too,
>     it's likely that there is internal rust to the bottom of the B-pillar
>     posts and perhaps the middle of the three rocker panels, so those would
>     be attended to at the same time. But if I was to buy this car as a
>     driver, I would comfortably drive it as-is for many years to come, and
>     chalk all that up to being a 'someday' project.
>     The right-hand rocker panel has a dent at the rear, but it's easily
>     accessed from behind and could be straightened out very, very easily.
>     The left-hand headlight bucket stands slightly proud of the fender when
>     shut. These are adjusted with various shims etc. and I have no doubt
>     that it could be fixed (what might have to happen is that the
>     right-hand bucket needs to be raised with shims slightly, then the
>     whole mechanism lowered more so they are both closed uniformly).
>     The car has been fitted with the highly desirable 10-inch rear wheels,
>     and the 8-inch wheels formerly living at the rear of the car have been
>     moved to the front. The 10-inch wheels were always a very expensive
>     aftermarket option (I paid $900 each for mine in 1989), and now are
>     easily worth $3500 or more by themselves. This is a huge selling point
>     for this car, as they are very difficult to find and very desirable.
>     I didn't note the age of the tires, but they at least have plenty of
>     tread left. It has Yokohama 295/50 in the rear and Falken 225/50 in
>     the front.
>     The front bumper has been described as 'serviceable' in the ad, and
>     that's a very fair characterization, in the sense that if you crashed
>     into something, it would do its job. Cosmetically though, it is in
>     pretty sad shape, suffering from numerous scrapes and scuffs, waves,
>     and a very pronounced split on the driver's side. It is possible to
>     repair these bumpers, but enough people have chosen to remove them and
>     replace them either with aftermarket fiberglass units (the fit of some
>     of those leaves a lot to be desired), or ginchy carbon-fiber, and NOS
>     steel and rubber bumpers are still available (although pricy).
>     The rear quarter windows are not installed, but are included with the
>     car in a big box of spare and leftover parts. I would reinstall them
>     right away, although I know that many owners prefer to leave them out
>     for the ease of cleaning the back window.
>     The left doorhandle return spring is broken, although the doorhandle
>     still works perfectly well. The latch simply remains proud after the
>     door has been opened, but it sits flush when it's closed.
>     The right-side door frame hits the trim at the top of the B-pillar and
>     has scraped the paint away. (I forgot to check to see if the same is
>     true on the driver's side).
>     Oddly, the backup lights are stuck on; whenever the key is on, they are
>     illuminated no matter if the car is in reverse or not. Frequently
>     these lights don't function at all; I would suspect that the problem
>     lies with a faulty or misadjusted backup light switch, likely easily
>     resolved.
>     The car is equipped with a Hall Pantera Big Bore exhaust system. While
>     the Hall headers are a good match for stock tailpipes/mufflers, giving
>     a noticeable horsepower improvement, the Hall tailpipes/mufflers are
>     aesthetically very questionable, and aurally they take away the
>     signature Pantera 'sound'. Rather than sounding like an Italian exotic
>     with a very muscular heart, the Hall mufflers make the car sound like
>     an old pickup truck or a speedboat. There is nothing inherently
>     'wrong' with them, as they are functioning as designed (no cracks or
>     leaks or other damage). But if this was my car, at a minimum I would
>     source a good pair of stock tailpipes to return the proper Pantera
>     sound; in all likelihood I would just replace the whole system, either
>     with the ANSA European GTS setup, or (preferably) the system produced
>     by Panteras by Wilkinson, which delivers the cosmetic appearance of the
>     factory GTS exhaust, but produces considerably more horsepower (31 hp
>     in a back-to-back dyno test) at less cost.
>     The stock mirrors have been replaced with Vitaloni Baby Bravo mirrors,
>     attached to plates glued to the inside of the quarter glass. During my
>     test drive, the passenger-side mirror gave an excellent view of the
>     ground rather than traffic to the rear; I confess I forgot to see if it
>     could be adjusted properly.
>     Considering that the engine was rebuilt 1000 miles ago at a cost of
>     $18,000 (!!!!!), cosmetically it leaves more than a bit to be desired.
>     The valve covers look scruffy, with the black paint peeling off. The
>     intake manifold is stained, evidence of a prior fuel leak. These items
>     should have been taken care of as part of the engine rebuild--a
>     shameful oversight. Fortunately it is easy to take care of it now--the
>     valve covers and intake can be removed, bead-blasted, and then the
>     valve covers can be masked and painted.
>     The gearbox also looks a bit 'naff' as the English would say, and would
>     benefit from a good scrubbing.
>     The engine is fitted with an Edelbrock Performer 4V intake manifold
>     (pretty much the standard replacement for the stock cast-iron boat
>     anchor), and a cheap economy Holley carburetor. When I drove the car a
>     couple of years ago, it had a good performance Holley carb that was in
>     dire need of tuning and fettling; instead the prior owner just replaced
>     it with a carb of much lower specification. It is perfectly fine for
>     cruising around, and will likely deliver good fuel economy, but the
>     side-pivot floats means that it will cut out under very hard
>     cornering. I would likely be putting this one on Craigslist and
>     replacing it with the factory European GTS offering, the Holley 4777
>     650 double-pumper.
>     The stock air cleaner is installed, but is missing the plastic fresh
>     air induction snorkel system, which was fitted to the firewall and drew
>     cool, fresh air from beneath the passenger seat. So the engine is
>     instead inhaling ambient air from directly above the exhaust headers on
>     the passenger side.
>     I forgot to mention that the original decklid shocks are still
>     installed (upside down), and are doing a surprisingly good job of
>     keeping the decklid open. Usually by this point, they would have
>     collapsed and been replaced with something more generic in appearance.
>     The stock spare tire is in the rear trunk, although the normally gloss
>     black wheel has been rattle-can painted with silver (which is
>     failing). This late car has provisions for a hold-down (a reinforced
>     hole in the bottom of the spare tire well at the right rear corner of
>     the trunk), and the factory hold-down is inside the box of spare
>     parts. Given that the spare situation was not well thought-out (if you
>     get a flat tire and choose to fit the inflatable spare, there is
>     absolutely no place to put the flat tire and wheel, and you're not
>     going to just leave them on the side of the road, are you?), I would
>     probably detail the wheel to the Nth degree and sell it to a Boss
>     Mustang concours nut, as they pay a lot of money for these things.
>     The complete factory tool kit is included, and while the tools are junk
>     and factory jacks have been known to fail, people have paid upwards of
>     $1500 for a complete tool kit, so it's a nice thing to have.
>     The decklid catch is sticky and remains stuck open, which could allow
>     the decklid to bounce around if it wasn't noticed. There is a spring
>     inside the catch which is not capable of forcing the latch closed as it
>     should; gentle thumb pressure causes it to snap shut and then it
>     functions properly (securing the decklid). This could be as simple as
>     adjusting/lubricating it, or perhaps the spring inside has broken and
>     needs to be replaced. An entirely new latch can be purchased very
>     inexpensively.
>     The weatherstripping on the body that seals to the decklid has failed,
>     and while it could perhaps be quietly glued together, it should
>     probably be replaced.
>     The single most significant item on any Pantera is its cooling system.
>     These cars got a bad rap when they were new for cooling system woes,
>     but by the 1974 model year, the cooling system was completely ironed
>     out and they ran perfectly. But 1974 was a long time agoa|.
>     This car is still equipped with a completely original cooling
>     system--radiator, fans, pipes etc. are all original, and well past
>     their prime. I could see no evidence of a leak, and hoped that the
>     system was functioning as it did in 1974.
>     I then hopped inside to check out the interior. The first thing I
>     noticed were aftermarket speakers installed in holes cut in the
>     doorpanels; both speakers are missing their grilles and thus their guts
>     are on display for all to see (and damage). An Alpine stereo is
>     fitted, which I naturally didn't bother to test.
>     Oddly, the left interior door handle has been 'clocked' incorrectly so
>     it sticks up proud; it is on a splined shaft and fixing it is as simple
>     as removing the three screws that hold the armrest to the door, then
>     removing the single screw that holds the doorhandle in place,
>     reclocking it on the splined shaft and reinstalling.
>     On first glance, the dashboard appears to be in unusually good
>     condition. However, it is all artifice, as the stock dashboard is
>     weathered and cracked, and has been equipped with a dashboard cap from
>     Hall Pantera. This cap is remarkably well-done, following the contours
>     of the stock dash while being just that tiny bit larger. During
>     installation, all the gauges, vents, switches etc. are removed from the
>     stock dash, the cap is installed, and then everything is put back in
>     place. The installation is good overall but is dramatically let down
>     by the holes for the two small warning lights to the left of the main
>     gauges. The cap doesn't fit as well as one would hope here, and those
>     lights were left installed in the original dash, and big holes were
>     gouged in the dash cap so they are visible. This looks terrible, so
>     random rubber plugs were inserted to hide them, which looks only
>     slightly less terrible.
>     The stock steering wheel was replaced with a Lecarra wheel, of an
>     unusually small size (likely 12 inches). This provides more legroom
>     for a taller driver, but increases steering effort and compromises
>     visibility of the main gauges. The stock steering wheel was 14 inches
>     (Euro cars were 350mm, or 13.7 inches) so I would very quickly unbolt
>     this too-small wheel and replace it with a 14-inch Lecarra wheel.
>     The original window switches were okay when new, but didn't have the
>     longevity one would hope for, and its rare to find a car that still has
>     them installed and working. This car has had them replaced with much
>     higher quality Bosch switches (the originals are included with the
>     leftover parts), and both windows work well. The driver's window
>     travel is a bit irregular, with a tight spot about 3/4 of the way up,
>     but that's not unusual, as adjusting the windows on these cars is a bit
>     of a black art.
>     When I first turned on the key, I heard the A/C clutch engage and the
>     A/C fan start up, so at least that appeared to be working. I turned
>     them off and continued testing the electrics.
>     The generator light is very, very weak when the key is on and the car
>     not running. Normally if a one-wire alternator is fitted, this light
>     is brightly lit all the time and needs to be unplugged. I don't know
>     what kind of alternator the car has, nor can I explain why the bulb
>     would glow dimly.
>     The headlights raised normally, but the left high beam is burned out.
>     The turn signals all work (although I forgot to test the brake lights
>     or taillights). The interior blower fan works, and the turn signal
>     switch still functions properly, although the lever has been bent
>     forward so that it is not in the correct location and is difficult to
>     reach with your hands on the wheel. Some sympathetic bending would
>     hopefully rectify that.
>     I forgot to test the horn, which is actuated by the turn signal
>     switch.
>     The shift gate is in good condition, and the stock shift knob has been
>     replaced with an oversized knob from Hall Pantera. (I prefer the
>     original, and hope that it is in good condition and included with the
>     spare parts).
>     The stock seats have been recovered in the stock pattern, but the vinyl
>     center has been replaced with cloth, perhaps a nod to the realities of
>     the car's time spent in Florida.
>     The stock carpets are gone, replaced with generic black carpeting. The
>     carpet on the driver's side has started to fail, and it's wrinkled and
>     easily tangles up the feet near the pedals. At a minimum it needs to
>     be glued down, but some good floormats wouldn't go unnoticed (it has
>     none).
>     A Hall Pantera center console was screwed atop the stock center
>     console. While the design is good, the execution leaves a bit to be
>     desired. The plastic is very thin and cheap-feeling, and it squeaks
>     something awful. If it is retained, efforts need to be made to
>     insulate it to stop the squeaking.
>     The aforementioned stock headliner, which was blowing down when I drove
>     the car a few years ago, has been replaced with a non-original,
>     non-matching generic headliner--a great disappointment, as it would
>     have been just as easy to do it properly. The installation seems good
>     enough, but why not use the original material since it is available if
>     you know where to look?
>     The sunvisor on the driver's side doesn't stay up as well as one would
>     like. This is down to a minor failure on the mount, which is easily
>     rectified. The mounts are plastic with knurled steel pins pressed in
>     the end; the pins are supposed to be stationary while the sunvisor
>     rotates around them. In this case, the pins have come free and spin in
>     the plastic housings. All that is necessary is to remove them and use
>     a strong adhesive like Krazy Glue to glue the pins in the housings, and
>     all will be well.
>     The clutch pedal is very light (for a Pantera), expected on a later car
>     which came with a revised clutch linkage. This car has been fitted
>     with an aluminum flywheel and modern clutch (likely a Centerforce, I'm
>     guessing). The brake pedal is very solid as well. The car shifts
>     smoothly through the gears, although shift effort is rather high,
>     indicating that lubrication of the linkage is overdue.
>     Oh, and the dome light works.
>     It was finally time for a test drive.
>     The car started very easily, and the ammeter immediately indicated it
>     was charging the battery--good. I could immediately smell exhaust,
>     suggesting that it is overly rich at idle. The engine was very
>     responsive blipping the throttle--that's the aluminum flywheel at work.
>     The idle is very, very weird. It has a 500 rpm hunt, back and forth
>     between 500 and 1000 rpm every two seconds. It's almost as though the
>     timing is advancing and retarding--it's the only thing I can think of
>     that would produce this effect. (Or a vacuum leak perhaps?)
>     The light flywheel coupled with the weird idle meant it was very
>     difficult to back up the car without stalling the engine. The only
>     technique that seemed to work was to rev the engine to 2000 rpm and
>     then slip the clutch, which makes the driver appear as though he's
>     never driven a stick shift before, much less a Pantera. It was
>     embarrassing. But if I tried to drive it conventionally, the clutch
>     'bite' at 1000 rpm would then result in the engine dying when it
>     dropped to 500 rpm. I suppose I could have learned to follow the sine
>     wave and dip the clutch in and out in time to the rpm increase and
>     decrease, but it was easier to just rev it and slip the clutch when
>     reversing, and more or less dump the clutch and stand on the gas when
>     pulling away from a stop (which, I confess, is fun to do anyway).
>     Within a short time of departing the dealership, I noted the water
>     temperature had already risen to an indicated 230 degrees, and it
>     maintained about 220-230 while driving down the freeway. I hoped it
>     was an indication error, because it would be worrisome if it was true.
>     The car feels very taut and solid when driving down the road, which is
>     what you would expect from a car whose mileage is so low, fitted with
>     Koni shocks. The steering was fine, with no undue play or pulling to
>     one side. The brakes are excellent (although the solid rotors mean
>     they would likely become overwhelmed if the car was subjected to
>     extreme track duty), and the engine pulls reasonable wella|
>     a|until 5000 rpm when it suddenly cuts out. Repeated tests showed that
>     at exactly 5000 rpm indicated on the tach, the engine would stutter and
>     maintain exactly that rpm and no more, indicating some kind of rev
>     limiter has been installed and set unusually low. Perhaps this was
>     part of the break-in process, and it was intended to be set higher
>     afterwards. I have no idea what kind of ignition system is in the car
>     (it was too late to crawl around and check), so one hopes this is the
>     explanation.
>     As long as I remained below 5000 rpm, and above idle, the engine ran
>     great. It isn't especially powerful, although it has considerably more
>     power than a stock 1974 Pantera (if I'm honest, a stock 1974 Pantera is
>     a bit of a dog thanks to its low compression and smog gear). I wish I
>     knew what the previous owner got for his $18,000 engine rebuild. Is
>     the engine still fitted with the 1974 low-compression cylinder heads?
>     There's no way of telling from the outside.
>     Suffice it to say that it runs well and delivers exhilarating
>     performance, but it is in desperate need of tuning and fettling.
>     Back at the shop, I let the car sit and idle while I ran around with a
>     floor jack. I'm pleased to report that both rear wheel bearing/axle
>     setups were in fine shape, and the steering rack had no discernable
>     play (stock steering racks have a bushing that wears out in about 40K
>     miles, so this one has a ways to go yet).
>     I became alarmed when I noticed the temperature gauge getting very
>     close to 260 degrees, in the red zone, and one radiator fan hadn't
>     turned on yet. Either the gauge was lying or there were serious
>     problems here. I used a hand-held laser temp gun and shot the back
>     side of the radiator, which indicated 250 degrees on the side with the
>     non-working fan.
>     Yikes!
>     I quickly shut the car down, and was surprised to find that it shut off
>     cleanly, showing no signs whatsoever of overheating (no spitting of
>     coolant or steam, or gurgling from the pressure tanks). So while the
>     radiator/fan setup is clearly not working properly, it seems the system
>     was well purged of air and the tanks and radiator cap are both good.
>     Afterwards I went into the storeroom and looked at four boxes that come
>     with the car; one had a bunch of parts, either old parts that had been
>     taken off the car and retained (such as the window switches), or items
>     that were purchased but never fitted (like a aGTSa rear badge, wheel
>     emblems and shift knob--evidently somebody considered making this car a
>     GTS clone at some point).
>     Very significantly, the windshield wipers and arms were in this box
>     too. The 1974 cars used different wipers which parked on the driver's
>     side (halfway up the windscreen, very annoying), and most people remove
>     them and store them in the trunk. These arms are completely impossible
>     to find, and if a car is purchased with them absent, there is pretty
>     much no way to render the wipers functional. So the fact these are
>     here is very good news indeed.
>     Other boxes contained the factory service and part manuals, and a
>     collection of club newsletters and magazines stretching back many
>     years. The last box just had generic car-care items, including a small
>     tool kit, wax, rags etc.
>     So what to make of this car then? Basically, it is being marketed not
>     as a perfect concours car or an original survivor, but instead as a
>     good, solid driver, which is an accurate assessment, apart from the
>     various mechanical niggles that keep the car from just being a turn-key
>     proposition as it stands.
>     Strengths:
>     Very solid chassis absent of structural rust
>     Good silver paint (all the flaws are below the beltline in the black
>     painted areas, making them harder to see)
>     10-inch rear wheels
>     Freshly rebuilt engine (in need of tuning and perhaps a better carb)
>     stronger than stock
>     Koni shocks deliver a terrific ride
>     Great Wilwood brakes
>     Decent-looking interior overall
>     No chassis squeaks/groans etc. (just some noise from the plastic center
>     console)
>     Low mileage
>     All factory manuals and many newsletters/magazines included
>     Full toolkit with jack (expensive!)
>     Electrical items all appear to be working fine
>     Nice, light clutch
>     Weaknesses:
>     Flaws in the paint clearly indicating panel rust, with potential for
>     minor structural rust underneath
>     Small dent in rocker panel
>     Cooling system appears to be shot (needs new radiator, fans, pipes, and
>     might as well change the hoses too, which would cost about $1500 in
>     parts)
>     Trivial gearbox oil leak
>     Rear swaybar/bushings bad (I forgot to check the front, but new
>     bushings are cheap)
>     Black paint overspray on bare aluminum components
>     Engine doesn't present attractively and needs cosmetic attention
>     Engine doesn't idle properly
>     Ignition cuts out completely at 5000 rpm
>     Engine bay to decklid weatherstripping broken
>     Dubious Hall exhaust lets the car down aurally and cosmetically
>     Carpet is falling apart on driver's side
>     Naked speakers in the doors
>     Unfortunate choice of non-original headliner
>     Backup lights stuck on
>     One headlight high beam out
>     In short, I think this car is a terrific driver that has some very
>     desirable features (10-inch wheels, Wilwood brakes, new modern clutch,
>     rebuilt engine, really nice silver paint) that is somewhat let down by
>     a host of problems, most of them small and very easily sorted, but two
>     of them significant enough that I wouldn't be comfortable just jumping
>     in the car and driving it away (cooling system woes most importantly,
>     but also the engine idle and high rpm cut-out issues.
>     This is a car that would pay HUGE dividends to the do-it-yourselfer.
>     None of the car's problems (apart from the small areas of sheetmetal
>     rust) are difficult to resolve, and it would be very easy to keep
>     improving this car over the space of a few weekends. Replacing the
>     whole cooling system would be a big job, requiring the help of some
>     friends to make it more enjoyable, and the engine problems will require
>     some detective work, but everything else is fairly simple and
>     straightforward.
>     I would say that the car would be very properly priced if it didn't
>     have the many small 'issues' and two larger ones. As it stands, those
>     issues either need to be resolved, or the seller needs to show some
>     financial consideration for the buyer who will be left to contend with
>     them before he can actually drive and enjoy the car properly.
>     Depending on how much one values one's time to spend fixing the car (or
>     paying a mechanic $$$ to do it), I would say the car is probably worth
>     in the region of $65-70K as it stands. Once its mechanical issues are
>     dealt with, for sure it would provide the new owner tremendous
>     enjoyment, and at some point in the future, while a new paint job would
>     be a bit more expensive due to the need to repair small parts of
>     several panels, it's not going to have the serious structural cancer
>     that can quickly drive costs through the roof.
>     I wish both the seller and the eventual buyer good luck, and hope that
>     this car can find a loving home soon!
>     Mike
>     ------------------------------
>     Message: 2
>     Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 15:30:08 -0700
>     From: Larry Finch <[18]fresnofinches at aol.com>
>     To: Email List Address For Posting
>     <[19]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>     Subject: [DeTomaso] Review--1974 Pantera L for sale
>     Message-ID: <28AF7827-C6E0-47B1-A8BE-[20]DB9B60E454F5 at aol.com>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>     Mike and all,
>     "The right-hand rocker panel has a dent at the rear, but it's easily
>     accessed from behind and could be straightened out very, very easily."
>     Not sure exactly what the dent you mentioned is, but if it is actually
>     in the rocker there is no very, very easy access from the rear. ;-)
>     The outer, middle and inner rocker construction extends all the way to
>     the rear.
>     This is a shot of the inner panel at the rear of the left-hand rocker
>     on 2511. Note the lack of the large holes found in the middle rocker
>     panels below the cabin.
>     ( Denny Finn has removed both rockers on 2511 during the
>     repair/restoration project for minor issues and found nothing but
>     45-year-old surface rust. )
>     The rust/paint issues Mike also noted would seem to indicate that
>     bottom of A-pillars and B-pillars may require serious metal replacement
>     once they are actually opened up for inspection. Once(If)the B-pillar
>     rust has seriously advanced it will likely lead to rust of the inner
>     rockers.
>     Remember, Pantera's have had 45 years for that untreated, bare Italian
>     mill-grade steel to rust from the inside out. If that rust has advanced
>     to the point of now being visible externally, one should expect greater
>     issues have already occurred unseen.
>     Larry
>     Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
>     -------------- next part --------------
>     Mike and all,
>     "The right-hand rocker panel has a dent at the rear, but it's easily
>     accessed from behind and could be straightened out very, very easily."
>     Not sure exactly what the dent you mentioned is, but if it is actually
>     in the ro
>     cker there is no very, very easy access from the rear. ;-)
>     The outer, middle and inner rocker construction extends all the way to
>     the rear.
>     image1.JPG
>     This is a shot of the inner panel at the rear of the left-hand rocker
>     on 2511. N
>     ote the lack of the large holes found in the middle rocker panels below
>     the cabi
>     n.
>     image2.JPG
>     ( Denny Finn has removed both rockers on 2511 during the
>     repair/restoration proj
>     ect for minor issues and found nothing but 45-year-old surface rust. )
>     The rust/paint issues Mike also noted would seem to indicate that
>     bottom of A-pi
>     llars and B-pillars may require serious metal replacement once they are
>     actually
>     opened up for inspection. Once(If)the B-pillar rust has seriously
>     advanced it w
>     ill likely lead to rust of the inner rockers.
>     Remember, Pantera's have had 45 years for that untreated, bare Italian
>     mill-grad
>     e steel to rust from the inside out. If that rust has advanced to the
>     point of n
>     ow being visible externally, one should expect greater issues have
>     already occur
>     red unseen.
>     Larry
>     Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
>     -------------- next part --------------
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>     0625/0178f761/attachment-0002.jpe>
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>     ------------------------------
>     Message: 3
>     Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 20:34:41 -0400
>     From: <[23]dgordon100 at cox.net>
>     To: [24]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     Subject: [DeTomaso] (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia
>     Message-ID: <20170625203441.K3FUF.37284.imail at fed1rmwml107>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>     Does anybody know of Dyno shops around the area of Paramount California
>     where I could have my Pantera ran? It needs to be a dyno that can
>     handle my expected 600-700 rear wheel horsepower. My understanding is
>     that dynos have specific horsepower limits. If you know the dyno prices
>     for the shop please include that too.
>     Thanks, David
>     ------------------------------
>     Message: 4
>     Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 02:34:09 +0000 (UTC)
>     From: Ken Green <[25]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>     To: "[26]dgordon100 at cox.net" <[27]dgordon100 at cox.net>,
>     "[28]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
>     <[29]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>,
>     Rod Kunishige <[30]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
>     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia
>     Message-ID: <[31]586762482.2100449.1498444449274 at mail.yahoo.com>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>     I recall the Orange County club having a dyno day at the shop near the
>     intersection of the 5 and 91 freeways a few years ago.? Seemed like a
>     serious engine builder, probably a high HP capability.
>     Rod, do you?remember???
>     Ken
>     From: "[32]dgordon100 at cox.net" <[33]dgordon100 at cox.net>
>     To: [34]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 5:34 PM
>     Subject: [DeTomaso] (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia
>     Does anybody know of Dyno shops around the area of Paramount California
>     where I could have my Pantera ran?? It needs to be a dyno that can
>     handle my expected 600-700 rear wheel horsepower.? My understanding is
>     that dynos have specific horsepower limits.? If you know the dyno
>     prices for the shop please include that too.
>     Thanks, David
>     _______________________________________________
>     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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>     -------------- next part --------------
>     I recall the Orange County club having a dyno day at the shop near the
>     intersection of the 5 and 91 freeways a few years ago. Seemed like a
>     serious engine builder, probably a high HP capability.
>     Rod, do you remember???
>     Ken
>     __________________________________________________________________
>     From: "[37]dgordon100 at cox.net" <[38]dgordon100 at cox.net>
>     To: [39]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 5:34 PM
>     Subject: [DeTomaso] (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia
>     Does anybody know of Dyno shops around the area of Paramount California
>     where I could have my Pantera ran? It needs to be a dyno that can
>     handle my expected 600-700 rear wheel horsepower. My understanding is
>     that dynos have specific horsepower limits. If you know the dyno
>     prices for the shop please include that too.
>     Thanks, David
>     _______________________________________________
>     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>     DeTomaso mailing list
>     [1][40]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     [2][41]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>     use the links above.
>     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>     message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>     or approve the archiving of list messages.
>     References
>     1. [42]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     2. [43]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>     ------------------------------
>     Message: 5
>     Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2017 20:28:14 -0700
>     From: Scott Couchman <[44]scottcouchman at yahoo.com>
>     To: Ken Green <[45]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>     Cc: "[46]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
>     <[47]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, Rod Kunishige
>     <[48]rkunishige at hotmail.com>, "[49]dgordon100 at cox.net"
>     <[50]dgordon100 at cox.net>
>     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia
>     Message-ID: <E508CBE7-DFCF-46B5-913A-[51]01FA65DE5181 at yahoo.com>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>     That is Superior Automotive Engineering. They've moved. Now in
>     Placentia. Still have the dyno, 700hp is no problem.....just had my
>     Pantera checked before leaving OC for the FunRally. We will consider
>     having a Dyno Day next year if there's enough interest. Scott
>     > On Jun 25, 2017, at 7:34 PM, Ken Green via DeTomaso
>     <[52]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>     >
>     > I recall the Orange County club having a dyno day at the shop near
>     the
>     > intersection of the 5 and 91 freeways a few years ago. Seemed like a
>     > serious engine builder, probably a high HP capability.
>     > Rod, do you remember???
>     > Ken
>     > __________________________________________________________________
>     >
>     > From: "[53]dgordon100 at cox.net" <[54]dgordon100 at cox.net>
>     > To: [55]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     > Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 5:34 PM
>     > Subject: [DeTomaso] (LPC) Dyno by Paramount Califonia
>     > Does anybody know of Dyno shops around the area of Paramount
>     California
>     > where I could have my Pantera ran? It needs to be a dyno that can
>     > handle my expected 600-700 rear wheel horsepower. My understanding is
>     > that dynos have specific horsepower limits. If you know the dyno
>     > prices for the shop please include that too.
>     > Thanks, David
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>     > DeTomaso mailing list
>     > [1][56]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     > [2][57]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>     > use the links above.
>     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>     any
>     > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>     > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
>     archive
>     > or approve the archiving of list messages.
>     >
>     > References
>     >
>     > 1. [58]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     > 2. [59]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>     > _______________________________________________
>     >
>     >
>     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>     > DeTomaso mailing list
>     > [60]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     > [61]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>     >
>     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>     use the links above.
>     >
>     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>     or approve the archiving of list messages.
>     ------------------------------
>     Subject: Digest Footer
>     _______________________________________________
>     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>     DeTomaso mailing list
>     [62]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     [63]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>     message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>     or approve the archiving of list messages.
>     ------------------------------
>     End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 156, Issue 22
>     *****************************************
>
> References
>
>     1. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>     2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     3. mailto:admin at detomasoregistry.org
>     4. mailto:4cb78.16b59d7f.4681796c at aol.com
>     5. http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/1982-DeTomaso%20-Pantera%20L-351%20c.i.%20Cl
>     6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>     8. mailto:request at server.detomasolist.com
>     9. mailto:owner at server.detomasolist.com
>    10. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>    11. mailto:dgordon100 at cox.net
>    12. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>    13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    14. mailto:admin at detomasoregistry.org
>    15. mailto:4cb78.16b59d7f.4681796c at aol.com
>    16. http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/1982-DeTomaso%20-Pantera%20L-351%20c.i.%20Cl
>    17. http://fantasyjunction.com/cars/1982-DeTomaso%20-Pantera%20L-351%20c.i
>    18. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
>    19. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    20. mailto:DB9B60E454F5 at aol.com
>    21. http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/attachments/20170625/0178f761/attachment-0002.jpe
>    22. http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/attachments/20170625/0178f761/attachment-0003.jpe
>    23. mailto:dgordon100 at cox.net
>    24. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    25. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
>    26. mailto:dgordon100 at cox.net
>    27. mailto:dgordon100 at cox.net
>    28. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    29. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    30. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
>    31. mailto:586762482.2100449.1498444449274 at mail.yahoo.com
>    32. mailto:dgordon100 at cox.net
>    33. mailto:dgordon100 at cox.net
>    34. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    35. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    36. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>    37. mailto:dgordon100 at cox.net
>    38. mailto:dgordon100 at cox.net
>    39. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    40. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    41. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>    42. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
>    43. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>    44. mailto:scottcouchman at yahoo.com
>    45. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
>    46. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    47. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    48. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
>    49. mailto:dgordon100 at cox.net
>    50. mailto:dgordon100 at cox.net
>    51. mailto:01FA65DE5181 at yahoo.com
>    52. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    53. mailto:dgordon100 at cox.net
>    54. mailto:dgordon100 at cox.net
>    55. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    56. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    57. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>    58. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
>    59. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>    60. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    61. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>    62. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    63. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:41:35 -0400
> From: laurieferrari at aol.com
> To: Detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tire stories
> Message-ID: <15ceb12c525-2cee-1f45 at webprd-a83.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Sorry, forgot to thank everyone for sharing their illuminating tire stories.... my favorite one though, was Larry at Ohio Time's.   : )
> [DeTomaso] FW: NPC Free Tire for Fiat.. Kind of strange story.
> Larry - Ohio Time Larry at OhioTimeCorp.com
> Mon Jun 19 15:25:52 EDT 2017
>
> Previous message: [DeTomaso] NPC Free Tire for Fiat.. Kind of strange story.
> Next message: [DeTomaso] FW: NPC Free Tire for Fiat.. Kind of strange story.
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
>
> Laurie,
>
> Being young and beautiful can make many things that seem impossible,
> possible.
>
> Larry (they would have locked me up for something) - Cleveland
> -------------- next part --------------
> Sorry, forgot to thank everyone for sharing their illuminating tire stories....
>              my favorite one though, was Larry at Ohio Time's.   : )
>
>           [DeTomaso] FW: NPC Free Tire for Fiat.. Kind of strange story.
>
>     Larry - Ohio Time [1]Larry at OhioTimeCorp.com
>     Mon Jun 19 15:25:52 EDT 2017
>
>       * Previous message: [2][DeTomaso] NPC Free Tire for Fiat.. Kind of
>         strange story.
>       * Next message: [3][DeTomaso] FW: NPC Free Tire for Fiat.. Kind of
>         strange story.
>       * Messages sorted by: [4][ date ] [5][ thread ] [6][ subject ] [7][
>         author ]
>       __________________________________________________________________
>
> Laurie,
>
> Being young and beautiful can make many things that seem impossible,
> possible.
>
> Larry (they would have locked me up for something) - Cleveland
>
> References
>
>     1. mailto:detomaso%40server.detomasolist.com?Subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%20FW%3A%20%20NPC%20Free%20Tire%20for%20Fiat..%20Kind%20of%20strange%20story.&In-Reply-To=%3CFF6DABEAF8824998B4189465F6C23C2A%40LarryHPPC%3E
>     2. http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/2017-June/097280.html
>     3. http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/2017-June/097271.html
>     4. http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/2017-June/date.html#97270
>     5. http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/2017-June/thread.html#97270
>     6. http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/2017-June/subject.html#97270
>     7. http://server.detomasolist.com/pipermail/detomaso/2017-June/author.html#97270
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:21:47 -0700
> From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, De Tomaso Forum
> 	<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] release stuck ignition key?
> Message-ID: <7910467A-8A1A-47A7-980C-8F165779642A at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
>
> Ken,
>
> I have written extensively in the past about ignition switch idiosyncrasies but don't understand your issue. Can you not get the key out?
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 21:26, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>>     I recall someone mentioning how to get the key to release???
>>    Thanks,
>>    Ken
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 15:40:53 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> To: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>,  De Tomaso Forum
> 	<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] release stuck ignition key?
> Message-ID: <1451073646.471981.1498664453801 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Ya, the key turns, but won't come out.? This is an ignition switch I picked up somewhere in the past.? It's a spare, so not a show stopper.? I suspect it may have something to do with the steering lock mechanism.
> Ken
>
>        From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>   To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; De Tomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>   Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 11:22 PM
>   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] release stuck ignition key?
>     
> Ken,
>
> I have written extensively in the past about ignition switch idiosyncrasies but don't understand your issue. Can you not get the key out?
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jun 26, 2017, at 21:26, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>> ? ? I recall someone mentioning how to get the key to release???
>> ? Thanks,
>> ? Ken
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
>     
> -------------- next part --------------
>     Ya, the key turns, but won't come out.  This is an ignition switch I
>     picked up somewhere in the past.  It's a spare, so not a show stopper.
>     I suspect it may have something to do with the steering lock mechanism.
>     Ken
>       __________________________________________________________________
>
>     From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>     To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; De Tomaso Forum
>     <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>     Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 11:22 PM
>     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] release stuck ignition key?
>     Ken,
>     I have written extensively in the past about ignition switch
>     idiosyncrasies but don't understand your issue. Can you not get the key
>     out?
>     Mike
>     Sent from my iPad
>     > On Jun 26, 2017, at 21:26, Ken Green via DeTomaso
>     <[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>     >
>     >    I recall someone mentioning how to get the key to release???
>     >  Thanks,
>     >  Ken
>     > _______________________________________________
>     >
>     >
>     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>     > DeTomaso mailing list
>     > [2]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     > [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>     >
>     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>     use the links above.
>     >
>     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
>     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>     or approve the archiving of list messages.
>     _______________________________________________
>     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>     DeTomaso mailing list
>     [4]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     [5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>     use the links above.
>     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>     message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
>     or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
>     1. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     2. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>     4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 156, Issue 24
> *****************************************