[DeTomaso] oiling main mods
michael frazier
red3644 at hotmail.com
Fri Jun 2 10:35:38 EDT 2017
Will Kooiman said… If you¹re pushing your engine hard (racing, not passing a Prius on the
highway), do it. Mike Frasier broke a camshaft at one of the road races.
Was it because his camshaft was starved of oil and it seized? I don¹t
recall the failure analysis.
Ah, I remember it like it was yesterday. There I was…
That was at the Big Bend ORR. I was in a long right hand sweeper right at 140mph. 5600 -5700rpm I think.
I heard just a click and the car shook like you ran over a small bump in the road. I saw the oil pressure falling,
and shut it down and coasted off the course. I tried a restart and it fired and came to a decent idle for the few
seconds I let it run. I actually ran it for a few more seconds to get it on the trailer later that day.
This engine was an actual Boss351 with screw in freeze plugs and everything FWIW. It had the oil line we’re discussing.
I had turned it into a V6. The can sheared right behind the last bearing. That section of the cam blew back through the rear plug and just hung there out of the way. Two lifters fell and were shattered by the crank while everything else stayed on top. There was a small chip in the bottom of one cylinder skirt about ½” high and wide, out of the swept wear area. The crank had a smudge like mark on one counter weight and one connecting rod had made contact on the head
of the bolt. I didn’t see any valve marks on the piston faces, but it’s hard for me to believe there wasn’t some
contact. All the bearings looked good except the back cam bearing that took a beating while cam section visited.
That’s all the damage I found. I was very very lucky I didn’t have the whole bottom blown out on the
pavement.
The cause? It may have been something very simple. I had not been inside this engine before other than
pulling the pan and looking around. I was impressed with what I saw. There was a lot of first class work there.
The day before the race I had been having timing problems. John Taphorn and I tried setting it while driving
with the front cover off! It just seemed erratic. I ran it the next morning and it was strong right up until it wasn’t.
So what happened? While tearing it apart I found the cam thrust plate bolts loose and the plate moving around.
I’m sure the cam was walking around. That’s my story anyway. Any thought?
Almost everything is still usable, so a 1951 Ford F1 Rat Rod truck will technically be Boss351 powered one day.
Michael
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
From: Will Kooiman<mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 8:28 PM
To: bill gaino<mailto:gaino at earthlink.net>; B Hower<mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>; goodwinpantera at comcast.net<mailto:goodwinpantera at comcast.net>; De Tomaso List<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] oiling main mods
I think it helps, but also isn¹t needed for most of us.
I saw a compelling dyno test several years ago that tapped the oil
passages several places, and you could definitely see a drop in pressure.
The front-to-back line equalizes the pressure. That¹s all.
It isn¹t robbing the front of the engine, because the pressure valve in
the oil pump bypasses any excess anyway. With the oil-mod, you¹re just
bypassing a little less.
But, and there¹s always a butt. Unless you¹re pushing your engine hard,
the part of the engine that is ³starved² without the mod, probably has
enough pressure anyway.
If you¹re pushing your engine hard (racing, not passing a Prius on the
highway), do it. Mike Frasier broke a camshaft at one of the road races.
Was it because his camshaft was starved of oil and it seized? I don¹t
recall the failure analysis.
But do a proper Pantera oil pan first, and then probably an accumulator,
and lastly the front-to-back line.
On 5/31/17, 12:45 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of bill gaino"
<detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
gaino at earthlink.net> wrote:
>I also did the mod and now i have an oil leak where I tapped in the front
>of motor, more oil coolers and more external filters are MORE places for
>leaks or hose failure, remember the rule... KISS Bill 1362
>
>
>https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=t
>s
>If you want it slick. www.slickpaint.com<http://www.slickpaint.com> like us on facebook
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>Sent: May 30, 2017 8:40 PM
>>To: "goodwinpantera at comcast.net" <goodwinpantera at comcast.net>, De Tomaso
>>List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] oiling main mods
>>
>> I have the modification ... no proof that it works.
>>
>> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
>> ! )
>> __________________________________________________________________
>>
>> From: "goodwinpantera at comcast.net" <goodwinpantera at comcast.net>
>> To: De Tomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 7:21 PM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] oiling main mods
>> I was looking on ebay and there is a kit to direct oil from the
>>front
>> of the block near the oil pump to the back of the block to force
>>feed
>> 4
>> and 5 main and rod journals and adequately oil them. Has anybody
>> performed this modification and does it work?
>> Cheers, Dave Goodwin
>> _______________________________________________
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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>>References
>>
>> 1. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
Will Kooiman said... If you^1re pushing your engine hard (racing, not
passing a Prius on the
highway), do it. Mike Frasier broke a camshaft at one of the road
races.
Was it because his camshaft was starved of oil and it seized? I don^1t
recall the failure analysis.
Ah, I remember it like it was yesterday. There I was...
That was at the Big Bend ORR. I was in a long right hand sweeper
right at 140mph. 5600 -5700rpm I think.
I heard just a click and the car shook like you ran over a small bump
in the road. I saw the oil pressure falling,
and shut it down and coasted off the course. I tried a restart and it
fired and came to a decent idle for the few
seconds I let it run. I actually ran it for a few more seconds to get
it on the trailer later that day.
This engine was an actual Boss351 with screw in freeze plugs and
everything FWIW. It had the oil line we're discussing.
I had turned it into a V6. The can sheared right behind the last
bearing. That section of the cam blew back through the rear plug and
just hung there out of the way. Two lifters fell and were shattered by
the crank while everything else stayed on top. There was a small chip
in the bottom of one cylinder skirt about 1/2" high and wide, out of
the swept wear area. The crank had a smudge like mark on one counter
weight and one connecting rod had made contact on the head
of the bolt. I didn't see any valve marks on the piston faces, but
it's hard for me to believe there wasn't some
contact. All the bearings looked good except the back cam bearing that
took a beating while cam section visited.
That's all the damage I found. I was very very lucky I didn't have the
whole bottom blown out on the
pavement.
The cause? It may have been something very simple. I had not been
inside this engine before other than
pulling the pan and looking around. I was impressed with what I saw.
There was a lot of first class work there.
The day before the race I had been having timing problems. John
Taphorn and I tried setting it while driving
with the front cover off! It just seemed erratic. I ran it the next
morning and it was strong right up until it wasn't.
So what happened? While tearing it apart I found the cam thrust plate
bolts loose and the plate moving around.
I'm sure the cam was walking around. That's my story anyway. Any
thought?
Almost everything is still usable, so a 1951 Ford F1 Rat Rod truck will
technically be Boss351 powered one day.
Michael
Sent from [1]Mail for Windows 10
From: [2]Will Kooiman
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 8:28 PM
To: [3]bill gaino; [4]B Hower; [5]goodwinpantera at comcast.net; [6]De
Tomaso List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] oiling main mods
I think it helps, but also isn^1t needed for most of us.
I saw a compelling dyno test several years ago that tapped the oil
passages several places, and you could definitely see a drop in
pressure.
The front-to-back line equalizes the pressure. That^1s all.
It isn^1t robbing the front of the engine, because the pressure valve
in
the oil pump bypasses any excess anyway. With the oil-mod, you^1re
just
bypassing a little less.
But, and there^1s always a butt. Unless you^1re pushing your engine
hard,
the part of the engine that is ^3starved^2 without the mod, probably
has
enough pressure anyway.
If you^1re pushing your engine hard (racing, not passing a Prius on the
highway), do it. Mike Frasier broke a camshaft at one of the road
races.
Was it because his camshaft was starved of oil and it seized? I don^1t
recall the failure analysis.
But do a proper Pantera oil pan first, and then probably an
accumulator,
and lastly the front-to-back line.
On 5/31/17, 12:45 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of bill gaino"
<detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
gaino at earthlink.net> wrote:
>I also did the mod and now i have an oil leak where I tapped in the
front
>of motor, more oil coolers and more external filters are MORE places
for
>leaks or hose failure, remember the rule... KISS Bill 1362
>
>
>[7]https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts
&fref=t
>s
>If you want it slick. [8]www.slickpaint.com like us on facebook
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>Sent: May 30, 2017 8:40 PM
>>To: "goodwinpantera at comcast.net" <goodwinpantera at comcast.net>, De
Tomaso
>>List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] oiling main mods
>>
>> I have the modification ... no proof that it works.
>>
>> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may
not be
>> ! )
>>
__________________________________________________________________
>>
>> From: "goodwinpantera at comcast.net" <goodwinpantera at comcast.net>
>> To: De Tomaso List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 7:21 PM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] oiling main mods
>> I was looking on ebay and there is a kit to direct oil from the
>>front
>> of the block near the oil pump to the back of the block to force
>>feed
>> 4
>> and 5 main and rod journals and adequately oil them. Has anybody
>> performed this modification and does it work?
>> Cheers, Dave Goodwin
>> _______________________________________________
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [1]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
>> use the links above.
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
>> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
>> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>>
>>References
>>
>> 1. [9]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 2. [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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use
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>Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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list.
>They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
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References
1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
2. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
3. mailto:gaino at earthlink.net
4. mailto:b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
5. mailto:goodwinpantera at comcast.net
6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
7. https://www.facebook.com/pages/slickpaintcom/129049637149634?ref=ts&fref=t
8. http://www.slickpaint.com/
9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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