[DeTomaso] Slow cranking when hot

[Robert Stroj]

Hi,  

Sorry for not giving all specifics, here are the details;
Yes, my car is parked 9 months, used only 3 summer months per year.
I do have battery switch, little screw-on contact breaker at battery ground terminal.
I also really like this solution as it not only keeps battery charged during storage but it is completely removable, so it gives extra "anti-theft" protection on a trip if car is left parked outside overnight.

This summer I already drove few times before Dolomites trip, mostly short 1/2-1h drives each time.
I never experienced hard starting before, it happened first time during second refueling on first day.
We drove many mountain passes and car would start completely normal, cranking really fast for next, I guess, 3-5 times.
Then, after next refueling, again it cranked really slow, than again no problem at all during next 3 stops, and, than again really slow/hard start on top of mountain pass.....then no problem any longer during next two days (at least 10-20 more starts, both cold and hot).

I do not have ammeter as it got replaced with Oil temperature gauge, so can not comment on charging, but I guess this should be Ok since battery seems to keep good charge, even after long drives with lights on.

One strange problem I do have, but doubt it is related to this starting issue is voltage drop at the instrument panel when lights are switched on.
I first noticed how my water temperature would jump up about 15 degrees the moment you switch on headlights.
I measured instruments supply voltage at the bottom fuse on fuse panel (with car not running) and it is 11.8v without headlights on, dropping to 11.3v with headlights on.
 I will look further into this and make more measurements with car running and try to find out where the voltage drop comes from.
It is probably a good idea to install some fused relays next to the battery and run headlights trough those.

For starting issues I will first check all the big ground connections and see if it comes back again; if it does, will make sure to have voltmeter in the car to measure voltages at the battery and at starter during cranking.

All the best, Robert 

> On Jul 17, 2017, at 5:59 AM, MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
> 
> 
> In a message dated 7/16/17 2 49 18, npdrs at maui.net writes:
> 
> 
>> Thanks for all great suggestions, I will check one by one, starting with battery, grounding......
>> What is strange that it had this problem 3 times on first day, but it never happened again on second and third day of the trip....car definitely got just as hot on those days!?
> 
> 
> >>>Robert,
> 
> I think there is much that has been left unsaid in your story.
> 
> Isn't it true that you live in Hawaii and your Pantera lives in Europe, and you visit it occasionally and drive it for awhile?  And isn't it then true that you came to your car this week and turned the key for the first time in a long while, and then experienced the problem on the first day, but not on the subsequent days?
> 
> If I have that correct (it's supposition based on things you have said in months/years past), then the problem is likely an obvious one--you had a weak battery from sitting for a long time.  It was strong enough to start the car when cold, not strong enough initially to start when hot.  But after driving for a few hours, your alternator was able to return the battery to a fully charged state, and therefore it's subsequently working just fine.
> 
> Is that a true statement?
> 
> Was your ammeter deflected towards the 'charge' side on the first day, indicating that the alternator was pouring energy into your battery to try to get it back to a fully charged state?  Is that deflection less now?
> 
> If I lined up all my guesses correctly, you don't really have a problem other than improper car storage.
> 
> Do you have a battery cutoff switch?  I have had tremendous luck with those, extending the life and the fully charged state of my batteries to an almost endless degree.  Even when you don't have any obvious electrical 'parasites' on your car such as a clock, alarm system etc., when a battery is left connected, it slowly drains.  A cutoff switch isolates it, and it seems to retain its charge almost forever.
> 
> Tell me if I'm right?
> 
> Mike
-------------- next part --------------
   Hi,

   Sorry for not giving all specifics, here are the details;

   Yes, my car is parked 9 months, used only 3 summer months per year.

   I do have battery switch, little screw-on contact breaker at battery
   ground terminal.

   I also really like this solution as it not only keeps battery charged
   during storage but it is completely removable, so it gives extra
   "anti-theft" protection on a trip if car is left parked outside
   overnight.

   This summer I already drove few times before Dolomites trip, mostly
   short 1/2-1h drives each time.

   I never experienced hard starting before, it happened first time during
   second refueling on first day.

   We drove many mountain passes and car would start completely normal,
   cranking really fast for next, I guess, 3-5 times.

   Then, after next refueling, again it cranked really slow, than again no
   problem at all during next 3 stops, and, than again really slow/hard
   start on top of mountain pass.....then no problem any longer during
   next two days (at least 10-20 more starts, both cold and hot).

   I do not have ammeter as it got replaced with Oil temperature gauge, so
   can not comment on charging, but I guess this should be Ok since
   battery seems to keep good charge, even after long drives with lights
   on.

   One strange problem I do have, but doubt it is related to this starting
   issue is voltage drop at the instrument panel when lights are switched
   on.

   I first noticed how my water temperature would jump up about 15 degrees
   the moment you switch on headlights.

   I measured instruments supply voltage at the bottom fuse on fuse panel
   (with car not running) and it is 11.8v without headlights on, dropping
   to 11.3v with headlights on.

    I will look further into this and make more measurements with car
   running and try to find out where the voltage drop comes from.

   It is probably a good idea to install some fused relays next to the
   battery and run headlights trough those.

   For starting issues I will first check all the big ground connections
   and see if it comes back again; if it does, will make sure to have
   voltmeter in the car to measure voltages at the battery and at starter
   during cranking.

   All the best, Robert

   On Jul 17, 2017, at 5:59 AM, [1]MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:

   In a message dated 7/16/17 2 49 18, [2]npdrs at maui.net writes:

     Thanks for all great suggestions, I will check one by one, starting
     with battery, grounding......
     What is strange that it had this problem 3 times on first day, but
     it never happened again on second and third day of the trip....car
     definitely got just as hot on those days!?

   >>>Robert,
   I think there is much that has been left unsaid in your story.
   Isn't it true that you live in Hawaii and your Pantera lives in Europe,
   and you visit it occasionally and drive it for awhile?  And isn't it
   then true that you came to your car this week and turned the key for
   the first time in a long while, and then experienced the problem on the
   first day, but not on the subsequent days?
   If I have that correct (it's supposition based on things you have said
   in months/years past), then the problem is likely an obvious one--you
   had a weak battery from sitting for a long time.  It was strong enough
   to start the car when cold, not strong enough initially to start when
   hot.  But after driving for a few hours, your alternator was able to
   return the battery to a fully charged state, and therefore it's
   subsequently working just fine.
   Is that a true statement?
   Was your ammeter deflected towards the 'charge' side on the first day,
   indicating that the alternator was pouring energy into your battery to
   try to get it back to a fully charged state?  Is that deflection less
   now?
   If I lined up all my guesses correctly, you don't really have a problem
   other than improper car storage.
   Do you have a battery cutoff switch?  I have had tremendous luck with
   those, extending the life and the fully charged state of my batteries
   to an almost endless degree.  Even when you don't have any obvious
   electrical 'parasites' on your car such as a clock, alarm system etc.,
   when a battery is left connected, it slowly drains.  A cutoff switch
   isolates it, and it seems to retain its charge almost forever.
   Tell me if I'm right?
   Mike

References

   1. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   2. mailto:npdrs at maui.net