[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 151, Issue 21
jderyke at aol.com
jderyke at aol.com
Fri Jan 27 14:51:29 EST 2017
On the glass rear window in the Pantera deck lid that Stephen built: someone jposted a photo of the rear of an AMX-3 that also had a rear window there. The 'sail panels' in that prototype are quite a bit smaller than in the Pantera, and it seem to be mounted at an extreme angle rather than vertical, but the idea is there.... J Deryke
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 21, 2017 9:25 am
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 151, Issue 21
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Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. 2017 Fun Rally Hotel reservations (Ed Mendez)
2. Re: Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is Eating
Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network (Doug)
3. Re: Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is Eating
Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network (Thomas T?rnblom)
4. Re: Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is Eating
Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network (Doug)
5. Re: Deck Lid Window (B Hower)
6. FANTASTIC brake rotor news! (Mike Drew)
7. Re: FANTASTIC brake rotor news! (Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.)
8. Re: FANTASTIC brake rotor news! (Mike Drew)
9. Re: FANTASTIC brake rotor news! (Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.)
10. Re: FANTASTIC brake rotor news! (Mike Drew)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 11:19:59 -0800
From: Ed Mendez <edducati at mac.com>
To: "DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] 2017 Fun Rally Hotel reservations
Message-ID: <2553C5BB-076E-4844-8DC3-65558465C032 at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Please use the following link or call the number below. If anyone makes their own reservations then the club does not get credit for it and you get charged the resort fees.
The only way to get the group discounted rate is by following this link:
https://aws.passkey.com/go/POCAfunRally2017 <https://aws.passkey.com/go/POCAfunRally2017>
or by calling
Hyatt Passkey Reservations: 888-421-1442, not the Hotel directly.
Thanks, Ed
-------------- next part --------------
Please use the following link or call the number below. If anyone makes
their own reservations then the club does not get credit for it and you
get charged the resort fees.
The only way to get the group discounted rate is by following this
link:
[1]https://aws.passkey.com/go/POCAfunRally2017
or by calling
Hyatt Passkey Reservations: 888-421-1442, not the Hotel directly.
Thanks, Ed
References
1. https://aws.passkey.com/go/POCAfunRally2017
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 14:04:14 -0800
From: "Doug" <doug351c at gmail.com>
To: "POCA Forum Mailing List" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Cc: 'Mike Drew' <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is
Eating Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
Message-ID: <005a01d27369$23dc0db0$6b942910$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mike,
I agree. Overall it's an interesting article but I'm surprised Marlan Davis
made the error of stating there's a bypass valve in a premium Motorcraft
performance oil filter. Premium filters have a superior "drainback valve"
not a "bypass valve". In a 351C, the bypass valve is in the oil pump.
Doug Braun
Blue 73L #5505
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:02 AM
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is Eating
Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
Interesting article...
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hot-rod-to-the-rescue-351-cleveland-eating-di
stributor-gears/
Mike
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 01:02:30 +0100
From: Thomas T?rnblom <thomas at hax.se>
To: Doug <doug351c at gmail.com>
Cc: POCA Forum Mailing List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, Mike
Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is
Eating Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
Message-ID: <715ACCE5-D36B-4CA1-A6DD-9CA49E73B597 at hax.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Wouldn't all 351c filters have a bypass and most also an anti drain back valve?
The anti drain back and overflow valves are completely unrelated.
If the filter gets clogged, the pressure relief valve in the pump will not help lubricating the engine. The bypass valve in the filter needs to open to allow unfiltered oil to the engine or it will be toast in seconds.
Personally I run filters without a bypass valve, but they are not common and I replace it frequently. It is for some Nissan diesel truck that has the bypass in the block.
> 20 jan. 2017 kl. 23:04 skrev Doug <doug351c at gmail.com>:
>
> Mike,
>
> I agree. Overall it's an interesting article but I'm surprised Marlan Davis
> made the error of stating there's a bypass valve in a premium Motorcraft
> performance oil filter. Premium filters have a superior "drainback valve"
> not a "bypass valve". In a 351C, the bypass valve is in the oil pump.
>
> Doug Braun
> Blue 73L #5505
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:02 AM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is Eating
> Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
>
> Interesting article...
>
> http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hot-rod-to-the-rescue-351-cleveland-eating-di
> stributor-gears/
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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>
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>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> !DSPAM:5882896783462978117709!
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 17:33:10 -0800
From: "Doug" <doug351c at gmail.com>
To: 'Thomas T?rnblom' <thomas at hax.se>
Cc: 'POCA Forum Mailing List' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>,
'Mike Drew' <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is
Eating Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
Message-ID: <000801d27386$53affca0$fb0ff5e0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
My-bad Thomas - of course you're right.
I was confusing the term "bypass" with "pressure-relief". There's a
pressure relief valve in the oil pump and the bypass is in the filter.
Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas T?rnblom [mailto:thomas at hax.se]
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 4:03 PM
To: Doug <doug351c at gmail.com>
Cc: POCA Forum Mailing List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Mike Drew
<MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is Eating
Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
Wouldn't all 351c filters have a bypass and most also an anti drain back
valve?
The anti drain back and overflow valves are completely unrelated.
If the filter gets clogged, the pressure relief valve in the pump will not
help lubricating the engine. The bypass valve in the filter needs to open to
allow unfiltered oil to the engine or it will be toast in seconds.
Personally I run filters without a bypass valve, but they are not common and
I replace it frequently. It is for some Nissan diesel truck that has the
bypass in the block.
> 20 jan. 2017 kl. 23:04 skrev Doug <doug351c at gmail.com>:
>
> Mike,
>
> I agree. Overall it's an interesting article but I'm surprised Marlan
> Davis made the error of stating there's a bypass valve in a premium
> Motorcraft performance oil filter. Premium filters have a superior
"drainback valve"
> not a "bypass valve". In a 351C, the bypass valve is in the oil pump.
>
> Doug Braun
> Blue 73L #5505
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
> Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:02 AM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is Eating
> Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
>
> Interesting article...
>
> http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hot-rod-to-the-rescue-351-cleveland-eat
> ing-di
> stributor-gears/
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
the archiving of list messages.
>
> !DSPAM:5882896783462978117709!
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 05:27:51 +0000 (UTC)
From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
To: bill <bill at incendium.com>, Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>,
"gonancy at juno.com" <gonancy at juno.com>,
"detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
Message-ID: <408311850.796162.1484976471823 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I like the old saying "Dare to be different".?Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
From: bill <bill at incendium.com>
To: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>; gonancy at juno.com; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
? "Like" button, Stephen, we'll said, and your window absolutely looks
? like it should be there.
? Cheers
? Bill Moore
? Calgary
? -------- Original message --------
? From: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>
? Date: 2017-01-19 9:13 PM (GMT-07:00)
? To: gonancy at juno.com, detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
? Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
? Gads I love the fact that we each have our own car to play with!? For
? me, I
? got tired of all the crap that got vacuumed up off the road when one
? drives
? - or, for that matter, all the water when it rains and gets sucked up
? onto
? the engine.? If interested, here is a link to the article I wrote -
? which is
? quite different from the one Jack rewrote and published in one of the
? POCA
? mailings.
? http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Automotove-Techinical-Article
? s/Rea
? r-Window-and-Engine-Bay/
? BTW - I hate to say this, but the primary heat removal for the engine
? is the
? radiator - and, above 20 mph, the engine compartment doesn't heat up.
? Below
? that, the fan I installed keeps it cooler than it would be otherwise...
? But, definitely not for everyone.? That's what make these cars great!
? And, besides, when done, I really really like the look of the finished
? deck
? lid - without the hole in it.
? Each to their own!!!!!? And, thank you ever so kindly Dave and Asa for
? the
? kind words.
? Stephen Nelson
? -----Original Message-----
? From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
? Behalf
? Of gonancy at juno.com
? Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 4:03 PM
? To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
? Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
? Why on earth would you put a window in the only ventilation the engine
? get.
? Bad idea.
? GoNancy seeing heat rising from THAT opening!
? Please note: message attached
? From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
? To: "DeTomaso List" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
? Subject: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
? Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 11:49:59 -0800
? ____________________________________________________________
? 3 Life-Shortening Foods You Should Avoid Gut Health Research
? http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/588153bfa2b4f53bf1f83st02vuc
? _______________________________________________
? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
? DeTomaso mailing list
? DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
? http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
? use the links above.
? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
? message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
? or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
I like the old saying "Dare to be different".
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
! )
__________________________________________________________________
From: bill <bill at incendium.com>
To: Stephen <steve at snclocks.com>; gonancy at juno.com;
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
"Like" button, Stephen, we'll said, and your window absolutely looks
like it should be there.
Cheers
Bill Moore
Calgary
-------- Original message --------
From: Stephen <[1]steve at snclocks.com>
Date: 2017-01-19 9:13 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: [2]gonancy at juno.com, [3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
Gads I love the fact that we each have our own car to play with! For
me, I
got tired of all the crap that got vacuumed up off the road when one
drives
- or, for that matter, all the water when it rains and gets sucked up
onto
the engine. If interested, here is a link to the article I wrote -
which is
quite different from the one Jack rewrote and published in one of the
POCA
mailings.
[4]http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Automotove-Techinical-Arti
cle
s/Rea
r-Window-and-Engine-Bay/
BTW - I hate to say this, but the primary heat removal for the engine
is the
radiator - and, above 20 mph, the engine compartment doesn't heat up.
Below
that, the fan I installed keeps it cooler than it would be
otherwise...
But, definitely not for everyone. That's what make these cars great!
And, besides, when done, I really really like the look of the
finished
deck
lid - without the hole in it.
Each to their own!!!!! And, thank you ever so kindly Dave and Asa
for
the
kind words.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:[5]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On
Behalf
Of [6]gonancy at juno.com
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 4:03 PM
To: [7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
Why on earth would you put a window in the only ventilation the
engine
get.
Bad idea.
GoNancy seeing heat rising from THAT opening!
Please note: message attached
From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <[8]detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
To: "DeTomaso List" <[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 11:49:59 -0800
____________________________________________________________
3 Life-Shortening Foods You Should Avoid Gut Health Research
[10]http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/588153bfa2b4f53bf1f83st02v
uc
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[11]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
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Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
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[14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
2. mailto:gonancy at juno.com
3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
4. http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Automotove-Techinical-Article
5. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
6. mailto:gonancy at juno.com
7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/588153bfa2b4f53bf1f83st02vuc
11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 21:39:32 -0800
From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
To: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
Message-ID: <F10B9B1F-9E74-4CE9-86CF-D460B8C7B369 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Hi guys,
>
> Some years ago, some smart people here figured out that 1965-1967 Mustang front brake rotors were a perfect replacement for the stock Pantera front rotors, with the advantage that they were vented. The Euro GTS had vented rotors as an option, but original Euro vented rotors are rare and exceptionally expensive.
>
> Stock Mustang rotors were cheap and readily available until a few years ago. Then the industry changed, and instead of manufacturing them like before (where the hub and the rotor were two separate parts, as on the Pantera), they went to a one-piece casting where the hub was cast integral with the rotor. While they were a cheap and reasonable option for the Mustang crowd, that made them no longer suitable for Pantera use.
>
> A few years ago, I stumbled across a Mustang vintage race prep shop in southern California that said they had tooled up to reproduce original-spec Mustang rotors, produced by a company called Centric. Besides the normal option, they also offered them with nice optional features, such as slotted surface, cryogenic treatment, or both. I organized a group buy here, and over 100 of you ordered some. I filled the orders, but then it wasn't possible to get any more unless I did another volume buy.
>
> Fast-forward to 2017. Turns out Centric is the OEM arm of the aftermarket company Stoptech (or perhaps Stoptech is the aftermarket arm of the OEM supplier Centric). And it further turns out that these discs are now readily available from multiple sources, for a fair bit less (maybe even substantially less) than what I had to pay, and was selling them for.
>
> I just ordered a pair of slotted, cryo-treated rotors from Summit for a guy in Germany, and they are PERFECT. They will bolt right up to the front end of the Pantera in place of the stock solid rotors. The outside diameter is ever so slightly different (no factor), as is the offset. However, when De Tomaso engineers designed the front end, somebody forgot to carry a '1' and the caliper offset was incorrect relative to the stock solid rotors, so a thin spacer had to be introduced to space the caliper inboard. The different offset of these Centric rotors means that band-aid spacer is removed, and the caliper is thus perfectly centered on the rotor.
>
> Centric offers a dizzying array of options, starting with a plain, standard OEM-style Mustang rotor, all the way to a cross-drilled, slotted, cryogenically treated rotor (slotting makes them handed, with different part number for left and right).
>
> This link takes you to the Centric catalog where all the rotors are listed--16 in all:
>
> https://centricparts.centriccatalog.com/Inquiry/PartInt.aspx?pn=121.61053&id=WEB_DISC&v=LD&y=1965&m=54&mm=688&uid=ANR&sid=0
>
> There are actually three different brand names used. I think C-Tek is the 'bargain' brand, although I'm not sure. Centric is the premium OEM replacement brand, while StopTech is the high-end brand. All three seem to use the same basic design, but the Centric and StopTech rotors use better materials and feature a premium finish. Here's a link to the description of the Centric premium rotors:
>
> http://www.centricparts.com/products/centric-premium-brake-rotors
>
> And here is the description of the higher-end StopTech rotors, which are the same as the Centric rotors except with the benefit of optional features such as cryo treatment, slotting, drilling, or any combination of the three:
>
> http://www.centricparts.com/products/stoptech-sport-rotors
>
> Best of all is the price--these high-quality rotors are much, MUCH less expensive than custom Wilwood rotors, or rotors that are intended for other applications (such as Porsche) that go through an extensive/expensive machining/klugeing process to make them suitable for Pantera use. For literally less than half the cost, you can just pull quality rotors out of a box and bolt them right up to the front of your Pantera. Happy days!
>
> The standard rotors are available from Summit, although their online catalog isn't smart enough to list them by application (1965-67 Mustang). Going backwards from the Centric catalog and searching on the part number, these appeared:
>
> https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ceb-120-61053
>
> The rest of the offerings can be found in a similar fashion; here's an ugly link to the StopTech offerings:
>
> https://www.summitracing.com/search/year/1965/make/ford/model/mustang/department/brake-systems/part-type/brake-rotors?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&N=4294947032%2B4294951343%2B4294951333%2B4294947838%2B4294947817%2B402150
>
> A word on drilled rotors--most people who run cars hard agree that drilled rotors are a bad idea. They were fashionable for awhile, as they nominally offered better cooling, but they also tend to lead to cracks. Race cars that used drilled rotors usually see them thrown in the trash at the end of the day. They look cool, but aren't really a good solution, and most race cars no longer rely on cross-drilling.
>
> Slotting the rotors does seem to pay big dividends with no penalties. The slots sweep away pad debris and water, offering superior stopping performance.
>
> Cryo treatment also pays dividends. Through some magic that isn't well-explained (I'm sure you can Google it and find out specifically why it improves rotor life), cryo treatment makes the rotors last longer.
>
> So, to my mind, the best possible option would be a cryo-treated, slotted rotor. The slots make the rotors 'handed' (that is, there is a left and right side rotor), while the plain rotors are designed to be run on either side. The part numbers for the slotted rotors including "L" or "R" at the end accordingly.
>
> If you search on the part number, you can find these rotors on Amazon, PartsGeek.com and other places as well. Generally the parts prices are lower than Summit, but Summit offers free shipping while the others charge $25 each or something like that, meaning that the best overall deal is probably from Summit. You can probably also order them direct from your local auto parts store, if that turns you on.
>
> Over 100 of you have already installed these rotors on the front of your Panteras, so you know that they fit and they work great. That means the rest of you can buy with confidence.
>
> One final word on this subject: The stock solid brake rotors work absolutely fine for 90% of Pantera owners, perhaps even more. If you have never pushed your car hard enough so that the brakes overheated, so the pedal got squishy and the pads started stinking, then you will see ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT from changing to these vented rotors. However, if you have found yourself at the bottom of a winding mountain road with a long brake pedal, or had to back off during a track day because the brakes started going away, this is a very simple, cheap way to at least initially address the problem.
>
> Granted, a full-on Godzilla Wilwood brake setup will certainly offer superior performance under extreme use. But for aggressive street driving or moderate track-day work, these vented front rotors, in conjunction with the stock rear rotors, with good Porterfield pads, braided stainless hoses, a master cylinder in good condition, and the stock proportining valve in good working order, will likely produce all the braking power you will ever need.
>
> (Note that the stock Pantera rear rotor has a larger diameter than the front rotor, so these rotors will NOT work in the rear. It's quite likely another Ford product has a rotor that would do the job, but unfortunately I don't have knowledge of that, although I do plan to research it someday....)
>
> Photos of the StopTech 126-61053CSL (slotted/cryo) rotor appear below.
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>
> Cheers!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 01:04:45 -0500
From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf at embarqmail.com>
To: "'Mike Drew'" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: 'DeTomaso list new' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
Message-ID: <000001d273ac$444b7250$cce256f0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
I have all ideals when I got around to shaving off the rust from my original
rotors they would be pretty thin.
PLEASE continue the search for rears
Joe/NC
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 0:40 AM
To: B Hower via DeTomaso
Subject: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
> Hi guys,
>
> Some years ago, some smart people here figured out that 1965-1967 Mustang
front brake rotors were a perfect replacement for the stock Pantera front
rotors, with the advantage that they were vented. The Euro GTS had vented
rotors as an option, but original Euro vented rotors are rare and
exceptionally expensive.
>
> Stock Mustang rotors were cheap and readily available until a few years
ago. Then the industry changed, and instead of manufacturing them like
before (where the hub and the rotor were two separate parts, as on the
Pantera), they went to a one-piece casting where the hub was cast integral
with the rotor. While they were a cheap and reasonable option for the
Mustang crowd, that made them no longer suitable for Pantera use.
>
> A few years ago, I stumbled across a Mustang vintage race prep shop in
southern California that said they had tooled up to reproduce original-spec
Mustang rotors, produced by a company called Centric. Besides the normal
option, they also offered them with nice optional features, such as slotted
surface, cryogenic treatment, or both. I organized a group buy here, and
over 100 of you ordered some. I filled the orders, but then it wasn't
possible to get any more unless I did another volume buy.
>
> Fast-forward to 2017. Turns out Centric is the OEM arm of the aftermarket
company Stoptech (or perhaps Stoptech is the aftermarket arm of the OEM
supplier Centric). And it further turns out that these discs are now
readily available from multiple sources, for a fair bit less (maybe even
substantially less) than what I had to pay, and was selling them for.
>
> I just ordered a pair of slotted, cryo-treated rotors from Summit for a
guy in Germany, and they are PERFECT. They will bolt right up to the front
end of the Pantera in place of the stock solid rotors. The outside diameter
is ever so slightly different (no factor), as is the offset. However, when
De Tomaso engineers designed the front end, somebody forgot to carry a '1'
and the caliper offset was incorrect relative to the stock solid rotors, so
a thin spacer had to be introduced to space the caliper inboard. The
different offset of these Centric rotors means that band-aid spacer is
removed, and the caliper is thus perfectly centered on the rotor.
>
> Centric offers a dizzying array of options, starting with a plain,
standard OEM-style Mustang rotor, all the way to a cross-drilled, slotted,
cryogenically treated rotor (slotting makes them handed, with different part
number for left and right).
>
> This link takes you to the Centric catalog where all the rotors are
listed--16 in all:
>
>
https://centricparts.centriccatalog.com/Inquiry/PartInt.aspx?pn=121.61053&id
=WEB_DISC&v=LD&y=1965&m=54&mm=688&uid=ANR&sid=0
>
> There are actually three different brand names used. I think C-Tek is the
'bargain' brand, although I'm not sure. Centric is the premium OEM
replacement brand, while StopTech is the high-end brand. All three seem to
use the same basic design, but the Centric and StopTech rotors use better
materials and feature a premium finish. Here's a link to the description of
the Centric premium rotors:
>
> http://www.centricparts.com/products/centric-premium-brake-rotors
>
> And here is the description of the higher-end StopTech rotors, which are
the same as the Centric rotors except with the benefit of optional features
such as cryo treatment, slotting, drilling, or any combination of the three:
>
> http://www.centricparts.com/products/stoptech-sport-rotors
>
> Best of all is the price--these high-quality rotors are much, MUCH less
expensive than custom Wilwood rotors, or rotors that are intended for other
applications (such as Porsche) that go through an extensive/expensive
machining/klugeing process to make them suitable for Pantera use. For
literally less than half the cost, you can just pull quality rotors out of a
box and bolt them right up to the front of your Pantera. Happy days!
>
> The standard rotors are available from Summit, although their online
catalog isn't smart enough to list them by application (1965-67 Mustang).
Going backwards from the Centric catalog and searching on the part number,
these appeared:
>
> https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ceb-120-61053
>
> The rest of the offerings can be found in a similar fashion; here's an
ugly link to the StopTech offerings:
>
>
https://www.summitracing.com/search/year/1965/make/ford/model/mustang/depart
ment/brake-systems/part-type/brake-rotors?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending
&N=4294947032%2B4294951343%2B4294951333%2B4294947838%2B4294947817%2B402150
>
> A word on drilled rotors--most people who run cars hard agree that drilled
rotors are a bad idea. They were fashionable for awhile, as they nominally
offered better cooling, but they also tend to lead to cracks. Race cars
that used drilled rotors usually see them thrown in the trash at the end of
the day. They look cool, but aren't really a good solution, and most race
cars no longer rely on cross-drilling.
>
> Slotting the rotors does seem to pay big dividends with no penalties. The
slots sweep away pad debris and water, offering superior stopping
performance.
>
> Cryo treatment also pays dividends. Through some magic that isn't
well-explained (I'm sure you can Google it and find out specifically why it
improves rotor life), cryo treatment makes the rotors last longer.
>
> So, to my mind, the best possible option would be a cryo-treated, slotted
rotor. The slots make the rotors 'handed' (that is, there is a left and
right side rotor), while the plain rotors are designed to be run on either
side. The part numbers for the slotted rotors including "L" or "R" at the
end accordingly.
>
> If you search on the part number, you can find these rotors on Amazon,
PartsGeek.com and other places as well. Generally the parts prices are
lower than Summit, but Summit offers free shipping while the others charge
$25 each or something like that, meaning that the best overall deal is
probably from Summit. You can probably also order them direct from your
local auto parts store, if that turns you on.
>
> Over 100 of you have already installed these rotors on the front of your
Panteras, so you know that they fit and they work great. That means the
rest of you can buy with confidence.
>
> One final word on this subject: The stock solid brake rotors work
absolutely fine for 90% of Pantera owners, perhaps even more. If you have
never pushed your car hard enough so that the brakes overheated, so the
pedal got squishy and the pads started stinking, then you will see
ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT from changing to these vented rotors. However, if you
have found yourself at the bottom of a winding mountain road with a long
brake pedal, or had to back off during a track day because the brakes
started going away, this is a very simple, cheap way to at least initially
address the problem.
>
> Granted, a full-on Godzilla Wilwood brake setup will certainly offer
superior performance under extreme use. But for aggressive street driving
or moderate track-day work, these vented front rotors, in conjunction with
the stock rear rotors, with good Porterfield pads, braided stainless hoses,
a master cylinder in good condition, and the stock proportining valve in
good working order, will likely produce all the braking power you will ever
need.
>
> (Note that the stock Pantera rear rotor has a larger diameter than the
front rotor, so these rotors will NOT work in the rear. It's quite likely
another Ford product has a rotor that would do the job, but unfortunately I
don't have knowledge of that, although I do plan to research it someday....)
>
> Photos of the StopTech 126-61053CSL (slotted/cryo) rotor appear below.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 22:30:30 -0800
From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
To: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf at embarqmail.com>
Cc: DeTomaso list new <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
Message-ID: <AE72B240-7BBD-4273-9244-812586388165 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sorry, that first link doesn't work directly. You have to enter make, model and year. Enter 1965 Ford Mustang, light duty rotors and all 16 will appear.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 20, 2017, at 22:04, Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. <byrdjf at embarqmail.com> wrote:
>
> THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
> I have all ideals when I got around to shaving off the rust from my original
> rotors they would be pretty thin.
>
> PLEASE continue the search for rears
>
> Joe/NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 0:40 AM
> To: B Hower via DeTomaso
> Subject: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Some years ago, some smart people here figured out that 1965-1967 Mustang
> front brake rotors were a perfect replacement for the stock Pantera front
> rotors, with the advantage that they were vented. The Euro GTS had vented
> rotors as an option, but original Euro vented rotors are rare and
> exceptionally expensive.
>>
>> Stock Mustang rotors were cheap and readily available until a few years
> ago. Then the industry changed, and instead of manufacturing them like
> before (where the hub and the rotor were two separate parts, as on the
> Pantera), they went to a one-piece casting where the hub was cast integral
> with the rotor. While they were a cheap and reasonable option for the
> Mustang crowd, that made them no longer suitable for Pantera use.
>>
>> A few years ago, I stumbled across a Mustang vintage race prep shop in
> southern California that said they had tooled up to reproduce original-spec
> Mustang rotors, produced by a company called Centric. Besides the normal
> option, they also offered them with nice optional features, such as slotted
> surface, cryogenic treatment, or both. I organized a group buy here, and
> over 100 of you ordered some. I filled the orders, but then it wasn't
> possible to get any more unless I did another volume buy.
>>
>> Fast-forward to 2017. Turns out Centric is the OEM arm of the aftermarket
> company Stoptech (or perhaps Stoptech is the aftermarket arm of the OEM
> supplier Centric). And it further turns out that these discs are now
> readily available from multiple sources, for a fair bit less (maybe even
> substantially less) than what I had to pay, and was selling them for.
>>
>> I just ordered a pair of slotted, cryo-treated rotors from Summit for a
> guy in Germany, and they are PERFECT. They will bolt right up to the front
> end of the Pantera in place of the stock solid rotors. The outside diameter
> is ever so slightly different (no factor), as is the offset. However, when
> De Tomaso engineers designed the front end, somebody forgot to carry a '1'
> and the caliper offset was incorrect relative to the stock solid rotors, so
> a thin spacer had to be introduced to space the caliper inboard. The
> different offset of these Centric rotors means that band-aid spacer is
> removed, and the caliper is thus perfectly centered on the rotor.
>>
>> Centric offers a dizzying array of options, starting with a plain,
> standard OEM-style Mustang rotor, all the way to a cross-drilled, slotted,
> cryogenically treated rotor (slotting makes them handed, with different part
> number for left and right).
>>
>> This link takes you to the Centric catalog where all the rotors are
> listed--16 in all:
>>
>>
> https://centricparts.centriccatalog.com/Inquiry/PartInt.aspx?pn=121.61053&id
> =WEB_DISC&v=LD&y=1965&m=54&mm=688&uid=ANR&sid=0
>>
>> There are actually three different brand names used. I think C-Tek is the
> 'bargain' brand, although I'm not sure. Centric is the premium OEM
> replacement brand, while StopTech is the high-end brand. All three seem to
> use the same basic design, but the Centric and StopTech rotors use better
> materials and feature a premium finish. Here's a link to the description of
> the Centric premium rotors:
>>
>> http://www.centricparts.com/products/centric-premium-brake-rotors
>>
>> And here is the description of the higher-end StopTech rotors, which are
> the same as the Centric rotors except with the benefit of optional features
> such as cryo treatment, slotting, drilling, or any combination of the three:
>>
>> http://www.centricparts.com/products/stoptech-sport-rotors
>>
>> Best of all is the price--these high-quality rotors are much, MUCH less
> expensive than custom Wilwood rotors, or rotors that are intended for other
> applications (such as Porsche) that go through an extensive/expensive
> machining/klugeing process to make them suitable for Pantera use. For
> literally less than half the cost, you can just pull quality rotors out of a
> box and bolt them right up to the front of your Pantera. Happy days!
>>
>> The standard rotors are available from Summit, although their online
> catalog isn't smart enough to list them by application (1965-67 Mustang).
> Going backwards from the Centric catalog and searching on the part number,
> these appeared:
>>
>> https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ceb-120-61053
>>
>> The rest of the offerings can be found in a similar fashion; here's an
> ugly link to the StopTech offerings:
>>
>>
> https://www.summitracing.com/search/year/1965/make/ford/model/mustang/depart
> ment/brake-systems/part-type/brake-rotors?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending
> &N=4294947032%2B4294951343%2B4294951333%2B4294947838%2B4294947817%2B402150
>>
>> A word on drilled rotors--most people who run cars hard agree that drilled
> rotors are a bad idea. They were fashionable for awhile, as they nominally
> offered better cooling, but they also tend to lead to cracks. Race cars
> that used drilled rotors usually see them thrown in the trash at the end of
> the day. They look cool, but aren't really a good solution, and most race
> cars no longer rely on cross-drilling.
>>
>> Slotting the rotors does seem to pay big dividends with no penalties. The
> slots sweep away pad debris and water, offering superior stopping
> performance.
>>
>> Cryo treatment also pays dividends. Through some magic that isn't
> well-explained (I'm sure you can Google it and find out specifically why it
> improves rotor life), cryo treatment makes the rotors last longer.
>>
>> So, to my mind, the best possible option would be a cryo-treated, slotted
> rotor. The slots make the rotors 'handed' (that is, there is a left and
> right side rotor), while the plain rotors are designed to be run on either
> side. The part numbers for the slotted rotors including "L" or "R" at the
> end accordingly.
>>
>> If you search on the part number, you can find these rotors on Amazon,
> PartsGeek.com and other places as well. Generally the parts prices are
> lower than Summit, but Summit offers free shipping while the others charge
> $25 each or something like that, meaning that the best overall deal is
> probably from Summit. You can probably also order them direct from your
> local auto parts store, if that turns you on.
>>
>> Over 100 of you have already installed these rotors on the front of your
> Panteras, so you know that they fit and they work great. That means the
> rest of you can buy with confidence.
>>
>> One final word on this subject: The stock solid brake rotors work
> absolutely fine for 90% of Pantera owners, perhaps even more. If you have
> never pushed your car hard enough so that the brakes overheated, so the
> pedal got squishy and the pads started stinking, then you will see
> ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT from changing to these vented rotors. However, if you
> have found yourself at the bottom of a winding mountain road with a long
> brake pedal, or had to back off during a track day because the brakes
> started going away, this is a very simple, cheap way to at least initially
> address the problem.
>>
>> Granted, a full-on Godzilla Wilwood brake setup will certainly offer
> superior performance under extreme use. But for aggressive street driving
> or moderate track-day work, these vented front rotors, in conjunction with
> the stock rear rotors, with good Porterfield pads, braided stainless hoses,
> a master cylinder in good condition, and the stock proportining valve in
> good working order, will likely produce all the braking power you will ever
> need.
>>
>> (Note that the stock Pantera rear rotor has a larger diameter than the
> front rotor, so these rotors will NOT work in the rear. It's quite likely
> another Ford product has a rotor that would do the job, but unfortunately I
> don't have knowledge of that, although I do plan to research it someday....)
>>
>> Photos of the StopTech 126-61053CSL (slotted/cryo) rotor appear below.
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 09:09:39 -0500
From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf at embarqmail.com>
To: "'Mike Drew'" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: 'DeTomaso list new' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
Message-ID: <000001d273f0$02014a70$0603df50$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Would anyone have the dimensions of the rear rotors to submit to Centric and
let them search their products to see if there is one close enough?
I would also think Centric would like to include deTomaso/Pantera in their
catalog
Such a request from a distinguished owner should be persuasive...(hint,
hint)
http://www.centricparts.com/tech-support/tech-support-tickets
Joe/NC
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 0:40 AM
To: B Hower via DeTomaso
Subject: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
>......
(Note that the stock Pantera rear rotor has a larger diameter than the front
rotor, so these rotors will NOT work in the rear. It's quite likely another
Ford product has a rotor that would do the job, but unfortunately I don't
have knowledge of that, although I do plan to research it someday....
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 08:45:28 -0800
From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
To: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf at embarqmail.com>
Cc: DeTomaso list new <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
Message-ID: <57B40910-B54D-4D00-B47C-2EA0815544E2 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Yes, I already asked Centric if they had tech drawings available. Until a few months ago I had a stock rear brake rotor floating around, but I sold it, so I don't have anything to reference.....
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 21, 2017, at 06:09, Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. <byrdjf at embarqmail.com> wrote:
>
> Would anyone have the dimensions of the rear rotors to submit to Centric and
> let them search their products to see if there is one close enough?
>
> I would also think Centric would like to include deTomaso/Pantera in their
> catalog
>
> Such a request from a distinguished owner should be persuasive...(hint,
> hint)
>
> http://www.centricparts.com/tech-support/tech-support-tickets
>
> Joe/NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
> Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 0:40 AM
> To: B Hower via DeTomaso
> Subject: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
>> ......
> (Note that the stock Pantera rear rotor has a larger diameter than the front
> rotor, so these rotors will NOT work in the rear. It's quite likely another
> Ford product has a rotor that would do the job, but unfortunately I don't
> have knowledge of that, although I do plan to research it someday....
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
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http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
------------------------------
End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 151, Issue 21
*****************************************
-------------- next part --------------
On the glass rear window in the Pantera deck lid that Stephen built:
someone jposted a photo of the rear of an AMX-3 that also had a rear
window there. The 'sail panels' in that prototype are quite a bit
smaller than in the Pantera, and it seem to be mounted at an extreme
angle rather than vertical, but the idea is there.... J Deryke
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at server.detomasolist.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 21, 2017 9:25 am
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 151, Issue 21
Send DeTomaso mailing list submissions to
[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
[2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
detomaso-[3]request at server.detomasolist.com
You can reach the person managing the list at
detomaso-[4]owner at server.detomasolist.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
Daily Detomaso List Digest
Today's Topics:
1. 2017 Fun Rally Hotel reservations (Ed Mendez)
2. Re: Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is Eating
Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network (Doug)
3. Re: Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is Eating
Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network (Thomas T?rnblom)
4. Re: Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is Eating
Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network (Doug)
5. Re: Deck Lid Window (B Hower)
6. FANTASTIC brake rotor news! (Mike Drew)
7. Re: FANTASTIC brake rotor news! (Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.)
8. Re: FANTASTIC brake rotor news! (Mike Drew)
9. Re: FANTASTIC brake rotor news! (Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.)
10. Re: FANTASTIC brake rotor news! (Mike Drew)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 11:19:59 -0800
From: Ed Mendez <[5]edducati at mac.com>
To: "[6]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] 2017 Fun Rally Hotel reservations
Message-ID: <2553C5BB-076E-4844-8DC3-[9]65558465C032 at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Please use the following link or call the number below. If anyone makes
their own reservations then the club does not get credit for it and you
get charged the resort fees.
The only way to get the group discounted rate is by following this
link:
[10]https://aws.passkey.com/go/POCAfunRally2017
<[11]https://aws.passkey.com/go/POCAfunRally2017>
or by calling
Hyatt Passkey Reservations: 888-421-1442, not the Hotel directly.
Thanks, Ed
-------------- next part --------------
Please use the following link or call the number below. If anyone makes
their own reservations then the club does not get credit for it and you
get charged the resort fees.
The only way to get the group discounted rate is by following this
link:
[1][12]https://aws.passkey.com/go/POCAfunRally2017
or by calling
Hyatt Passkey Reservations: 888-421-1442, not the Hotel directly.
Thanks, Ed
References
1. [13]https://aws.passkey.com/go/POCAfunRally2017
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 14:04:14 -0800
From: "Doug" <[14]doug351c at gmail.com>
To: "POCA Forum Mailing List" <[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Cc: 'Mike Drew' <[16]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is
Eating Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
Message-ID: <005a01d27369$23dc0db0$6b942910$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mike,
I agree. Overall it's an interesting article but I'm surprised Marlan
Davis
made the error of stating there's a bypass valve in a premium
Motorcraft
performance oil filter. Premium filters have a superior "drainback
valve"
not a "bypass valve". In a 351C, the bypass valve is in the oil pump.
Doug Braun
Blue 73L #5505
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[17]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
Behalf
Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:02 AM
To: [18]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is Eating
Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
Interesting article...
[19]http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hot-rod-to-the-rescue-351-cleveland-
eating-di
stributor-gears/
Mike
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 01:02:30 +0100
From: Thomas T?rnblom <[20]thomas at hax.se>
To: Doug <[21]doug351c at gmail.com>
Cc: POCA Forum Mailing List <[22]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>,
Mike
Drew <[23]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is
Eating Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
Message-ID: <715ACCE5-D36B-4CA1-A6DD-[24]9CA49E73B597 at hax.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Wouldn't all 351c filters have a bypass and most also an anti drain
back valve?
The anti drain back and overflow valves are completely unrelated.
If the filter gets clogged, the pressure relief valve in the pump will
not help lubricating the engine. The bypass valve in the filter needs
to open to allow unfiltered oil to the engine or it will be toast in
seconds.
Personally I run filters without a bypass valve, but they are not
common and I replace it frequently. It is for some Nissan diesel truck
that has the bypass in the block.
> 20 jan. 2017 kl. 23:04 skrev Doug <[25]doug351c at gmail.com>:
>
> Mike,
>
> I agree. Overall it's an interesting article but I'm surprised Marlan
Davis
> made the error of stating there's a bypass valve in a premium
Motorcraft
> performance oil filter. Premium filters have a superior "drainback
valve"
> not a "bypass valve". In a 351C, the bypass valve is in the oil pump.
>
> Doug Braun
> Blue 73L #5505
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [[26]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On Behalf
> Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:02 AM
> To: [27]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is Eating
> Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
>
> Interesting article...
>
>
[28]http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hot-rod-to-the-rescue-351-cleveland-
eating-di
> stributor-gears/
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [29]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [30]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> !DSPAM:5882896783462978117709!
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 17:33:10 -0800
From: "Doug" <[31]doug351c at gmail.com>
To: 'Thomas T?rnblom' <[32]thomas at hax.se>
Cc: 'POCA Forum Mailing List' <[33]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>,
'Mike Drew' <[34]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is
Eating Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
Message-ID: <000801d27386$53affca0$fb0ff5e0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
My-bad Thomas - of course you're right.
I was confusing the term "bypass" with "pressure-relief". There's a
pressure relief valve in the oil pump and the bypass is in the filter.
Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas T?rnblom [[35]mailto:thomas at hax.se]
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 4:03 PM
To: Doug <[36]doug351c at gmail.com>
Cc: POCA Forum Mailing List <[37]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>;
Mike Drew
<[38]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is
Eating
Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
Wouldn't all 351c filters have a bypass and most also an anti drain
back
valve?
The anti drain back and overflow valves are completely unrelated.
If the filter gets clogged, the pressure relief valve in the pump will
not
help lubricating the engine. The bypass valve in the filter needs to
open to
allow unfiltered oil to the engine or it will be toast in seconds.
Personally I run filters without a bypass valve, but they are not
common and
I replace it frequently. It is for some Nissan diesel truck that has
the
bypass in the block.
> 20 jan. 2017 kl. 23:04 skrev Doug <[39]doug351c at gmail.com>:
>
> Mike,
>
> I agree. Overall it's an interesting article but I'm surprised Marlan
> Davis made the error of stating there's a bypass valve in a premium
> Motorcraft performance oil filter. Premium filters have a superior
"drainback valve"
> not a "bypass valve". In a 351C, the bypass valve is in the oil pump.
>
> Doug Braun
> Blue 73L #5505
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [[40]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On
> Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 8:02 AM
> To: [41]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Hot Rod To The Rescue - A 351 Cleveland Is Eating
> Distributor Gears - Hot Rod Network
>
> Interesting article...
>
>
[42]http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hot-rod-to-the-rescue-351-cleveland-
eat
> ing-di
> stributor-gears/
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
> [43]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list.
They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
approve
the archiving of list messages.
>
> !DSPAM:5882896783462978117709!
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 05:27:51 +0000 (UTC)
From: B Hower <[45]b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
To: bill <[46]bill at incendium.com>, Stephen <[47]steve at snclocks.com>,
"[48]gonancy at juno.com" <[49]gonancy at juno.com>,
"[50]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<[51]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
Message-ID: <[52]408311850.796162.1484976471823 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I like the old saying "Dare to be different".?Bud #3400 ( Drive it like
there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
From: bill <[53]bill at incendium.com>
To: Stephen <[54]steve at snclocks.com>; [55]gonancy at juno.com;
[56]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
? "Like" button, Stephen, we'll said, and your window absolutely looks
? like it should be there.
? Cheers
? Bill Moore
? Calgary
? -------- Original message --------
? From: Stephen <[57]steve at snclocks.com>
? Date: 2017-01-19 9:13 PM (GMT-07:00)
? To: [58]gonancy at juno.com, [59]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
? Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
? Gads I love the fact that we each have our own car to play with!? For
? me, I
? got tired of all the crap that got vacuumed up off the road when one
? drives
? - or, for that matter, all the water when it rains and gets sucked up
? onto
? the engine.? If interested, here is a link to the article I wrote -
? which is
? quite different from the one Jack rewrote and published in one of the
? POCA
? mailings.
?
[60]http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Automotove-Techinical-Art
icle
? s/Rea
? r-Window-and-Engine-Bay/
? BTW - I hate to say this, but the primary heat removal for the engine
? is the
? radiator - and, above 20 mph, the engine compartment doesn't heat up.
? Below
? that, the fan I installed keeps it cooler than it would be
otherwise...
? But, definitely not for everyone.? That's what make these cars great!
? And, besides, when done, I really really like the look of the
finished
? deck
? lid - without the hole in it.
? Each to their own!!!!!? And, thank you ever so kindly Dave and Asa
for
? the
? kind words.
? Stephen Nelson
? -----Original Message-----
? From: DeTomaso [[61]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On
? Behalf
? Of [62]gonancy at juno.com
? Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 4:03 PM
? To: [63]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
? Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
? Why on earth would you put a window in the only ventilation the
engine
? get.
? Bad idea.
? GoNancy seeing heat rising from THAT opening!
? Please note: message attached
? From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <[64]detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
? To: "DeTomaso List" <[65]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
? Subject: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
? Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 11:49:59 -0800
? ____________________________________________________________
? 3 Life-Shortening Foods You Should Avoid Gut Health Research
?
[66]http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/588153bfa2b4f53bf1f83st02v
uc
? _______________________________________________
? Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
? Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
? DeTomaso mailing list
? [67]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
? [68]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
? To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
? use the links above.
? Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
? message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
? list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
? or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[69]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[70]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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-------------- next part --------------
I like the old saying "Dare to be different".
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
! )
__________________________________________________________________
From: bill <[71]bill at incendium.com>
To: Stephen <[72]steve at snclocks.com>; [73]gonancy at juno.com;
[74]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
"Like" button, Stephen, we'll said, and your window absolutely looks
like it should be there.
Cheers
Bill Moore
Calgary
-------- Original message --------
From: Stephen <[1][75]steve at snclocks.com>
Date: 2017-01-19 9:13 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: [2][76]gonancy at juno.com, [3][77]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
Gads I love the fact that we each have our own car to play with! For
me, I
got tired of all the crap that got vacuumed up off the road when one
drives
- or, for that matter, all the water when it rains and gets sucked up
onto
the engine. If interested, here is a link to the article I wrote -
which is
quite different from the one Jack rewrote and published in one of the
POCA
mailings.
[4][78]http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Automotove-Techinical-
Arti
cle
s/Rea
r-Window-and-Engine-Bay/
BTW - I hate to say this, but the primary heat removal for the engine
is the
radiator - and, above 20 mph, the engine compartment doesn't heat up.
Below
that, the fan I installed keeps it cooler than it would be
otherwise...
But, definitely not for everyone. That's what make these cars great!
And, besides, when done, I really really like the look of the
finished
deck
lid - without the hole in it.
Each to their own!!!!! And, thank you ever so kindly Dave and Asa
for
the
kind words.
Stephen Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[79]mailto:[5]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On
Behalf
Of [6][80]gonancy at juno.com
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 4:03 PM
To: [7][81]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
Why on earth would you put a window in the only ventilation the
engine
get.
Bad idea.
GoNancy seeing heat rising from THAT opening!
Please note: message attached
From: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <[8][82]detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
To: "DeTomaso List" <[9][83]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Deck Lid Window
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 11:49:59 -0800
____________________________________________________________
3 Life-Shortening Foods You Should Avoid Gut Health Research
[10][84]http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/588153bfa2b4f53bf1f83s
t02v
uc
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[11][85]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[12][86]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[13][87]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[14][88]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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References
1. [89]mailto:steve at snclocks.com
2. [90]mailto:gonancy at juno.com
3. [91]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
4.
[92]http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Automotove-Techinical-Art
icle
5. [93]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
6. [94]mailto:gonancy at juno.com
7. [95]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. [96]mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
9. [97]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10.
[98]http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/588153bfa2b4f53bf1f83st02v
uc
11. [99]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. [100]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
13. [101]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. [102]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 21:39:32 -0800
From: Mike Drew <[103]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
To: B Hower via DeTomaso <[104]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
Message-ID: <F10B9B1F-9E74-4CE9-86CF-[105]D460B8C7B369 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Hi guys,
>
> Some years ago, some smart people here figured out that 1965-1967
Mustang front brake rotors were a perfect replacement for the stock
Pantera front rotors, with the advantage that they were vented. The
Euro GTS had vented rotors as an option, but original Euro vented
rotors are rare and exceptionally expensive.
>
> Stock Mustang rotors were cheap and readily available until a few
years ago. Then the industry changed, and instead of manufacturing them
like before (where the hub and the rotor were two separate parts, as on
the Pantera), they went to a one-piece casting where the hub was cast
integral with the rotor. While they were a cheap and reasonable option
for the Mustang crowd, that made them no longer suitable for Pantera
use.
>
> A few years ago, I stumbled across a Mustang vintage race prep shop
in southern California that said they had tooled up to reproduce
original-spec Mustang rotors, produced by a company called Centric.
Besides the normal option, they also offered them with nice optional
features, such as slotted surface, cryogenic treatment, or both. I
organized a group buy here, and over 100 of you ordered some. I filled
the orders, but then it wasn't possible to get any more unless I did
another volume buy.
>
> Fast-forward to 2017. Turns out Centric is the OEM arm of the
aftermarket company Stoptech (or perhaps Stoptech is the aftermarket
arm of the OEM supplier Centric). And it further turns out that these
discs are now readily available from multiple sources, for a fair bit
less (maybe even substantially less) than what I had to pay, and was
selling them for.
>
> I just ordered a pair of slotted, cryo-treated rotors from Summit for
a guy in Germany, and they are PERFECT. They will bolt right up to the
front end of the Pantera in place of the stock solid rotors. The
outside diameter is ever so slightly different (no factor), as is the
offset. However, when De Tomaso engineers designed the front end,
somebody forgot to carry a '1' and the caliper offset was incorrect
relative to the stock solid rotors, so a thin spacer had to be
introduced to space the caliper inboard. The different offset of these
Centric rotors means that band-aid spacer is removed, and the caliper
is thus perfectly centered on the rotor.
>
> Centric offers a dizzying array of options, starting with a plain,
standard OEM-style Mustang rotor, all the way to a cross-drilled,
slotted, cryogenically treated rotor (slotting makes them handed, with
different part number for left and right).
>
> This link takes you to the Centric catalog where all the rotors are
listed--16 in all:
>
>
[106]https://centricparts.centriccatalog.com/Inquiry/PartInt.aspx?pn=12
1.61053&id=WEB_DISC&v=LD&y=1965&m=54&mm=688&uid=ANR&sid=0
>
> There are actually three different brand names used. I think C-Tek is
the 'bargain' brand, although I'm not sure. Centric is the premium OEM
replacement brand, while StopTech is the high-end brand. All three seem
to use the same basic design, but the Centric and StopTech rotors use
better materials and feature a premium finish. Here's a link to the
description of the Centric premium rotors:
>
>
[107]http://www.centricparts.com/products/centric-premium-brake-rotors
>
> And here is the description of the higher-end StopTech rotors, which
are the same as the Centric rotors except with the benefit of optional
features such as cryo treatment, slotting, drilling, or any combination
of the three:
>
> [108]http://www.centricparts.com/products/stoptech-sport-rotors
>
> Best of all is the price--these high-quality rotors are much, MUCH
less expensive than custom Wilwood rotors, or rotors that are intended
for other applications (such as Porsche) that go through an
extensive/expensive machining/klugeing process to make them suitable
for Pantera use. For literally less than half the cost, you can just
pull quality rotors out of a box and bolt them right up to the front of
your Pantera. Happy days!
>
> The standard rotors are available from Summit, although their online
catalog isn't smart enough to list them by application (1965-67
Mustang). Going backwards from the Centric catalog and searching on the
part number, these appeared:
>
> [109]https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ceb-120-61053
>
> The rest of the offerings can be found in a similar fashion; here's
an ugly link to the StopTech offerings:
>
>
[110]https://www.summitracing.com/search/year/1965/make/ford/model/must
ang/department/brake-systems/part-type/brake-rotors?SortBy=Default&Sort
Order=Ascending&N=4294947032%2B4294951343%2B4294951333%2B4294947838%2B4
294947817%2B402150
>
> A word on drilled rotors--most people who run cars hard agree that
drilled rotors are a bad idea. They were fashionable for awhile, as
they nominally offered better cooling, but they also tend to lead to
cracks. Race cars that used drilled rotors usually see them thrown in
the trash at the end of the day. They look cool, but aren't really a
good solution, and most race cars no longer rely on cross-drilling.
>
> Slotting the rotors does seem to pay big dividends with no penalties.
The slots sweep away pad debris and water, offering superior stopping
performance.
>
> Cryo treatment also pays dividends. Through some magic that isn't
well-explained (I'm sure you can Google it and find out specifically
why it improves rotor life), cryo treatment makes the rotors last
longer.
>
> So, to my mind, the best possible option would be a cryo-treated,
slotted rotor. The slots make the rotors 'handed' (that is, there is a
left and right side rotor), while the plain rotors are designed to be
run on either side. The part numbers for the slotted rotors including
"L" or "R" at the end accordingly.
>
> If you search on the part number, you can find these rotors on
Amazon, PartsGeek.com and other places as well. Generally the parts
prices are lower than Summit, but Summit offers free shipping while the
others charge $25 each or something like that, meaning that the best
overall deal is probably from Summit. You can probably also order them
direct from your local auto parts store, if that turns you on.
>
> Over 100 of you have already installed these rotors on the front of
your Panteras, so you know that they fit and they work great. That
means the rest of you can buy with confidence.
>
> One final word on this subject: The stock solid brake rotors work
absolutely fine for 90% of Pantera owners, perhaps even more. If you
have never pushed your car hard enough so that the brakes overheated,
so the pedal got squishy and the pads started stinking, then you will
see ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT from changing to these vented rotors.
However, if you have found yourself at the bottom of a winding mountain
road with a long brake pedal, or had to back off during a track day
because the brakes started going away, this is a very simple, cheap way
to at least initially address the problem.
>
> Granted, a full-on Godzilla Wilwood brake setup will certainly offer
superior performance under extreme use. But for aggressive street
driving or moderate track-day work, these vented front rotors, in
conjunction with the stock rear rotors, with good Porterfield pads,
braided stainless hoses, a master cylinder in good condition, and the
stock proportining valve in good working order, will likely produce all
the braking power you will ever need.
>
> (Note that the stock Pantera rear rotor has a larger diameter than
the front rotor, so these rotors will NOT work in the rear. It's quite
likely another Ford product has a rotor that would do the job, but
unfortunately I don't have knowledge of that, although I do plan to
research it someday....)
>
> Photos of the StopTech 126-61053CSL (slotted/cryo) rotor appear
below.
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>
> Cheers!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 01:04:45 -0500
From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[113]byrdjf at embarqmail.com>
To: "'Mike Drew'" <[114]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: 'DeTomaso list new' <[115]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
Message-ID: <000001d273ac$444b7250$cce256f0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
I have all ideals when I got around to shaving off the rust from my
original
rotors they would be pretty thin.
PLEASE continue the search for rears
Joe/NC
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[116]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On Behalf
Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 0:40 AM
To: B Hower via DeTomaso
Subject: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
> Hi guys,
>
> Some years ago, some smart people here figured out that 1965-1967
Mustang
front brake rotors were a perfect replacement for the stock Pantera
front
rotors, with the advantage that they were vented. The Euro GTS had
vented
rotors as an option, but original Euro vented rotors are rare and
exceptionally expensive.
>
> Stock Mustang rotors were cheap and readily available until a few
years
ago. Then the industry changed, and instead of manufacturing them like
before (where the hub and the rotor were two separate parts, as on the
Pantera), they went to a one-piece casting where the hub was cast
integral
with the rotor. While they were a cheap and reasonable option for the
Mustang crowd, that made them no longer suitable for Pantera use.
>
> A few years ago, I stumbled across a Mustang vintage race prep shop
in
southern California that said they had tooled up to reproduce
original-spec
Mustang rotors, produced by a company called Centric. Besides the
normal
option, they also offered them with nice optional features, such as
slotted
surface, cryogenic treatment, or both. I organized a group buy here,
and
over 100 of you ordered some. I filled the orders, but then it wasn't
possible to get any more unless I did another volume buy.
>
> Fast-forward to 2017. Turns out Centric is the OEM arm of the
aftermarket
company Stoptech (or perhaps Stoptech is the aftermarket arm of the OEM
supplier Centric). And it further turns out that these discs are now
readily available from multiple sources, for a fair bit less (maybe
even
substantially less) than what I had to pay, and was selling them for.
>
> I just ordered a pair of slotted, cryo-treated rotors from Summit for
a
guy in Germany, and they are PERFECT. They will bolt right up to the
front
end of the Pantera in place of the stock solid rotors. The outside
diameter
is ever so slightly different (no factor), as is the offset. However,
when
De Tomaso engineers designed the front end, somebody forgot to carry a
'1'
and the caliper offset was incorrect relative to the stock solid
rotors, so
a thin spacer had to be introduced to space the caliper inboard. The
different offset of these Centric rotors means that band-aid spacer is
removed, and the caliper is thus perfectly centered on the rotor.
>
> Centric offers a dizzying array of options, starting with a plain,
standard OEM-style Mustang rotor, all the way to a cross-drilled,
slotted,
cryogenically treated rotor (slotting makes them handed, with different
part
number for left and right).
>
> This link takes you to the Centric catalog where all the rotors are
listed--16 in all:
>
>
[117]https://centricparts.centriccatalog.com/Inquiry/PartInt.aspx?pn=12
1.61053&id
=WEB_DISC&v=LD&y=1965&m=54&mm=688&uid=ANR&sid=0
>
> There are actually three different brand names used. I think C-Tek is
the
'bargain' brand, although I'm not sure. Centric is the premium OEM
replacement brand, while StopTech is the high-end brand. All three seem
to
use the same basic design, but the Centric and StopTech rotors use
better
materials and feature a premium finish. Here's a link to the
description of
the Centric premium rotors:
>
>
[118]http://www.centricparts.com/products/centric-premium-brake-rotors
>
> And here is the description of the higher-end StopTech rotors, which
are
the same as the Centric rotors except with the benefit of optional
features
such as cryo treatment, slotting, drilling, or any combination of the
three:
>
> [119]http://www.centricparts.com/products/stoptech-sport-rotors
>
> Best of all is the price--these high-quality rotors are much, MUCH
less
expensive than custom Wilwood rotors, or rotors that are intended for
other
applications (such as Porsche) that go through an extensive/expensive
machining/klugeing process to make them suitable for Pantera use. For
literally less than half the cost, you can just pull quality rotors out
of a
box and bolt them right up to the front of your Pantera. Happy days!
>
> The standard rotors are available from Summit, although their online
catalog isn't smart enough to list them by application (1965-67
Mustang).
Going backwards from the Centric catalog and searching on the part
number,
these appeared:
>
> [120]https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ceb-120-61053
>
> The rest of the offerings can be found in a similar fashion; here's
an
ugly link to the StopTech offerings:
>
>
[121]https://www.summitracing.com/search/year/1965/make/ford/model/must
ang/depart
ment/brake-systems/part-type/brake-rotors?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Asce
nding
&N=4294947032%2B4294951343%2B4294951333%2B4294947838%2B4294947817%2B402
150
>
> A word on drilled rotors--most people who run cars hard agree that
drilled
rotors are a bad idea. They were fashionable for awhile, as they
nominally
offered better cooling, but they also tend to lead to cracks. Race cars
that used drilled rotors usually see them thrown in the trash at the
end of
the day. They look cool, but aren't really a good solution, and most
race
cars no longer rely on cross-drilling.
>
> Slotting the rotors does seem to pay big dividends with no penalties.
The
slots sweep away pad debris and water, offering superior stopping
performance.
>
> Cryo treatment also pays dividends. Through some magic that isn't
well-explained (I'm sure you can Google it and find out specifically
why it
improves rotor life), cryo treatment makes the rotors last longer.
>
> So, to my mind, the best possible option would be a cryo-treated,
slotted
rotor. The slots make the rotors 'handed' (that is, there is a left and
right side rotor), while the plain rotors are designed to be run on
either
side. The part numbers for the slotted rotors including "L" or "R" at
the
end accordingly.
>
> If you search on the part number, you can find these rotors on
Amazon,
PartsGeek.com and other places as well. Generally the parts prices are
lower than Summit, but Summit offers free shipping while the others
charge
$25 each or something like that, meaning that the best overall deal is
probably from Summit. You can probably also order them direct from your
local auto parts store, if that turns you on.
>
> Over 100 of you have already installed these rotors on the front of
your
Panteras, so you know that they fit and they work great. That means the
rest of you can buy with confidence.
>
> One final word on this subject: The stock solid brake rotors work
absolutely fine for 90% of Pantera owners, perhaps even more. If you
have
never pushed your car hard enough so that the brakes overheated, so the
pedal got squishy and the pads started stinking, then you will see
ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT from changing to these vented rotors. However, if
you
have found yourself at the bottom of a winding mountain road with a
long
brake pedal, or had to back off during a track day because the brakes
started going away, this is a very simple, cheap way to at least
initially
address the problem.
>
> Granted, a full-on Godzilla Wilwood brake setup will certainly offer
superior performance under extreme use. But for aggressive street
driving
or moderate track-day work, these vented front rotors, in conjunction
with
the stock rear rotors, with good Porterfield pads, braided stainless
hoses,
a master cylinder in good condition, and the stock proportining valve
in
good working order, will likely produce all the braking power you will
ever
need.
>
> (Note that the stock Pantera rear rotor has a larger diameter than
the
front rotor, so these rotors will NOT work in the rear. It's quite
likely
another Ford product has a rotor that would do the job, but
unfortunately I
don't have knowledge of that, although I do plan to research it
someday....)
>
> Photos of the StopTech 126-61053CSL (slotted/cryo) rotor appear
below.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 22:30:30 -0800
From: Mike Drew <[122]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
To: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[123]byrdjf at embarqmail.com>
Cc: DeTomaso list new <[124]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
Message-ID: <AE72B240-7BBD-4273-9244-[125]812586388165 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sorry, that first link doesn't work directly. You have to enter make,
model and year. Enter 1965 Ford Mustang, light duty rotors and all 16
will appear.
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 20, 2017, at 22:04, Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.
<[126]byrdjf at embarqmail.com> wrote:
>
> THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
> I have all ideals when I got around to shaving off the rust from my
original
> rotors they would be pretty thin.
>
> PLEASE continue the search for rears
>
> Joe/NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [[127]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On Behalf
> Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 0:40 AM
> To: B Hower via DeTomaso
> Subject: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Some years ago, some smart people here figured out that 1965-1967
Mustang
> front brake rotors were a perfect replacement for the stock Pantera
front
> rotors, with the advantage that they were vented. The Euro GTS had
vented
> rotors as an option, but original Euro vented rotors are rare and
> exceptionally expensive.
>>
>> Stock Mustang rotors were cheap and readily available until a few
years
> ago. Then the industry changed, and instead of manufacturing them
like
> before (where the hub and the rotor were two separate parts, as on
the
> Pantera), they went to a one-piece casting where the hub was cast
integral
> with the rotor. While they were a cheap and reasonable option for the
> Mustang crowd, that made them no longer suitable for Pantera use.
>>
>> A few years ago, I stumbled across a Mustang vintage race prep shop
in
> southern California that said they had tooled up to reproduce
original-spec
> Mustang rotors, produced by a company called Centric. Besides the
normal
> option, they also offered them with nice optional features, such as
slotted
> surface, cryogenic treatment, or both. I organized a group buy here,
and
> over 100 of you ordered some. I filled the orders, but then it wasn't
> possible to get any more unless I did another volume buy.
>>
>> Fast-forward to 2017. Turns out Centric is the OEM arm of the
aftermarket
> company Stoptech (or perhaps Stoptech is the aftermarket arm of the
OEM
> supplier Centric). And it further turns out that these discs are now
> readily available from multiple sources, for a fair bit less (maybe
even
> substantially less) than what I had to pay, and was selling them for.
>>
>> I just ordered a pair of slotted, cryo-treated rotors from Summit
for a
> guy in Germany, and they are PERFECT. They will bolt right up to the
front
> end of the Pantera in place of the stock solid rotors. The outside
diameter
> is ever so slightly different (no factor), as is the offset. However,
when
> De Tomaso engineers designed the front end, somebody forgot to carry
a '1'
> and the caliper offset was incorrect relative to the stock solid
rotors, so
> a thin spacer had to be introduced to space the caliper inboard. The
> different offset of these Centric rotors means that band-aid spacer
is
> removed, and the caliper is thus perfectly centered on the rotor.
>>
>> Centric offers a dizzying array of options, starting with a plain,
> standard OEM-style Mustang rotor, all the way to a cross-drilled,
slotted,
> cryogenically treated rotor (slotting makes them handed, with
different part
> number for left and right).
>>
>> This link takes you to the Centric catalog where all the rotors are
> listed--16 in all:
>>
>>
>
[128]https://centricparts.centriccatalog.com/Inquiry/PartInt.aspx?pn=12
1.61053&id
> =WEB_DISC&v=LD&y=1965&m=54&mm=688&uid=ANR&sid=0
>>
>> There are actually three different brand names used. I think C-Tek
is the
> 'bargain' brand, although I'm not sure. Centric is the premium OEM
> replacement brand, while StopTech is the high-end brand. All three
seem to
> use the same basic design, but the Centric and StopTech rotors use
better
> materials and feature a premium finish. Here's a link to the
description of
> the Centric premium rotors:
>>
>>
[129]http://www.centricparts.com/products/centric-premium-brake-rotors
>>
>> And here is the description of the higher-end StopTech rotors, which
are
> the same as the Centric rotors except with the benefit of optional
features
> such as cryo treatment, slotting, drilling, or any combination of the
three:
>>
>> [130]http://www.centricparts.com/products/stoptech-sport-rotors
>>
>> Best of all is the price--these high-quality rotors are much, MUCH
less
> expensive than custom Wilwood rotors, or rotors that are intended for
other
> applications (such as Porsche) that go through an extensive/expensive
> machining/klugeing process to make them suitable for Pantera use. For
> literally less than half the cost, you can just pull quality rotors
out of a
> box and bolt them right up to the front of your Pantera. Happy days!
>>
>> The standard rotors are available from Summit, although their online
> catalog isn't smart enough to list them by application (1965-67
Mustang).
> Going backwards from the Centric catalog and searching on the part
number,
> these appeared:
>>
>> [131]https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ceb-120-61053
>>
>> The rest of the offerings can be found in a similar fashion; here's
an
> ugly link to the StopTech offerings:
>>
>>
>
[132]https://www.summitracing.com/search/year/1965/make/ford/model/must
ang/depart
>
ment/brake-systems/part-type/brake-rotors?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Asce
nding
>
&N=4294947032%2B4294951343%2B4294951333%2B4294947838%2B4294947817%2B402
150
>>
>> A word on drilled rotors--most people who run cars hard agree that
drilled
> rotors are a bad idea. They were fashionable for awhile, as they
nominally
> offered better cooling, but they also tend to lead to cracks. Race
cars
> that used drilled rotors usually see them thrown in the trash at the
end of
> the day. They look cool, but aren't really a good solution, and most
race
> cars no longer rely on cross-drilling.
>>
>> Slotting the rotors does seem to pay big dividends with no
penalties. The
> slots sweep away pad debris and water, offering superior stopping
> performance.
>>
>> Cryo treatment also pays dividends. Through some magic that isn't
> well-explained (I'm sure you can Google it and find out specifically
why it
> improves rotor life), cryo treatment makes the rotors last longer.
>>
>> So, to my mind, the best possible option would be a cryo-treated,
slotted
> rotor. The slots make the rotors 'handed' (that is, there is a left
and
> right side rotor), while the plain rotors are designed to be run on
either
> side. The part numbers for the slotted rotors including "L" or "R" at
the
> end accordingly.
>>
>> If you search on the part number, you can find these rotors on
Amazon,
> PartsGeek.com and other places as well. Generally the parts prices
are
> lower than Summit, but Summit offers free shipping while the others
charge
> $25 each or something like that, meaning that the best overall deal
is
> probably from Summit. You can probably also order them direct from
your
> local auto parts store, if that turns you on.
>>
>> Over 100 of you have already installed these rotors on the front of
your
> Panteras, so you know that they fit and they work great. That means
the
> rest of you can buy with confidence.
>>
>> One final word on this subject: The stock solid brake rotors work
> absolutely fine for 90% of Pantera owners, perhaps even more. If you
have
> never pushed your car hard enough so that the brakes overheated, so
the
> pedal got squishy and the pads started stinking, then you will see
> ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT from changing to these vented rotors. However,
if you
> have found yourself at the bottom of a winding mountain road with a
long
> brake pedal, or had to back off during a track day because the brakes
> started going away, this is a very simple, cheap way to at least
initially
> address the problem.
>>
>> Granted, a full-on Godzilla Wilwood brake setup will certainly offer
> superior performance under extreme use. But for aggressive street
driving
> or moderate track-day work, these vented front rotors, in conjunction
with
> the stock rear rotors, with good Porterfield pads, braided stainless
hoses,
> a master cylinder in good condition, and the stock proportining valve
in
> good working order, will likely produce all the braking power you
will ever
> need.
>>
>> (Note that the stock Pantera rear rotor has a larger diameter than
the
> front rotor, so these rotors will NOT work in the rear. It's quite
likely
> another Ford product has a rotor that would do the job, but
unfortunately I
> don't have knowledge of that, although I do plan to research it
someday....)
>>
>> Photos of the StopTech 126-61053CSL (slotted/cryo) rotor appear
below.
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 09:09:39 -0500
From: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[133]byrdjf at embarqmail.com>
To: "'Mike Drew'" <[134]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: 'DeTomaso list new' <[135]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
Message-ID: <000001d273f0$02014a70$0603df50$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Would anyone have the dimensions of the rear rotors to submit to
Centric and
let them search their products to see if there is one close enough?
I would also think Centric would like to include deTomaso/Pantera in
their
catalog
Such a request from a distinguished owner should be persuasive...(hint,
hint)
[136]http://www.centricparts.com/tech-support/tech-support-tickets
Joe/NC
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[137]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On
Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 0:40 AM
To: B Hower via DeTomaso
Subject: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
>......
(Note that the stock Pantera rear rotor has a larger diameter than the
front
rotor, so these rotors will NOT work in the rear. It's quite likely
another
Ford product has a rotor that would do the job, but unfortunately I
don't
have knowledge of that, although I do plan to research it someday....
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 08:45:28 -0800
From: Mike Drew <[138]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
To: "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[139]byrdjf at embarqmail.com>
Cc: DeTomaso list new <[140]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
Message-ID: <57B40910-B54D-4D00-B47C-[141]2EA0815544E2 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Yes, I already asked Centric if they had tech drawings available. Until
a few months ago I had a stock rear brake rotor floating around, but I
sold it, so I don't have anything to reference.....
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 21, 2017, at 06:09, Joseph F. Byrd, Jr.
<[142]byrdjf at embarqmail.com> wrote:
>
> Would anyone have the dimensions of the rear rotors to submit to
Centric and
> let them search their products to see if there is one close enough?
>
> I would also think Centric would like to include deTomaso/Pantera in
their
> catalog
>
> Such a request from a distinguished owner should be
persuasive...(hint,
> hint)
>
> [143]http://www.centricparts.com/tech-support/tech-support-tickets
>
> Joe/NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [[144]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On
> Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 0:40 AM
> To: B Hower via DeTomaso
> Subject: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
>> ......
> (Note that the stock Pantera rear rotor has a larger diameter than
the front
> rotor, so these rotors will NOT work in the rear. It's quite likely
another
> Ford product has a rotor that would do the job, but unfortunately I
don't
> have knowledge of that, although I do plan to research it someday....
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
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>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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or approve the archiving of list messages.
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 151, Issue 21
*****************************************
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131. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ceb-120-61053
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