[DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
Forest Goodhart
forestg at att.net
Fri Feb 3 16:42:05 EST 2017
Mike,
Do you have the part number of the ones you ordered from summit?I ordered from the tire rack and got hub/rotor assemblies.
Forest
From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 9:39 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
> Hi guys,
>
> Some years ago, some smart people here figured out that 1965-1967 Mustang front brake rotors were a perfect replacement for the stock Pantera front rotors, with the advantage that they were vented. The Euro GTS had vented rotors as an option, but original Euro vented rotors are rare and exceptionally expensive.
>
> Stock Mustang rotors were cheap and readily available until a few years ago. Then the industry changed, and instead of manufacturing them like before (where the hub and the rotor were two separate parts, as on the Pantera), they went to a one-piece casting where the hub was cast integral with the rotor. While they were a cheap and reasonable option for the Mustang crowd, that made them no longer suitable for Pantera use.
>
> A few years ago, I stumbled across a Mustang vintage race prep shop in southern California that said they had tooled up to reproduce original-spec Mustang rotors, produced by a company called Centric. Besides the normal option, they also offered them with nice optional features, such as slotted surface, cryogenic treatment, or both. I organized a group buy here, and over 100 of you ordered some. I filled the orders, but then it wasn't possible to get any more unless I did another volume buy.
>
> Fast-forward to 2017. Turns out Centric is the OEM arm of the aftermarket company Stoptech (or perhaps Stoptech is the aftermarket arm of the OEM supplier Centric). And it further turns out that these discs are now readily available from multiple sources, for a fair bit less (maybe even substantially less) than what I had to pay, and was selling them for.
>
> I just ordered a pair of slotted, cryo-treated rotors from Summit for a guy in Germany, and they are PERFECT. They will bolt right up to the front end of the Pantera in place of the stock solid rotors. The outside diameter is ever so slightly different (no factor), as is the offset. However, when De Tomaso engineers designed the front end, somebody forgot to carry a '1' and the caliper offset was incorrect relative to the stock solid rotors, so a thin spacer had to be introduced to space the caliper inboard. The different offset of these Centric rotors means that band-aid spacer is removed, and the caliper is thus perfectly centered on the rotor.
>
> Centric offers a dizzying array of options, starting with a plain, standard OEM-style Mustang rotor, all the way to a cross-drilled, slotted, cryogenically treated rotor (slotting makes them handed, with different part number for left and right).
>
> This link takes you to the Centric catalog where all the rotors are listed--16 in all:
>
> https://centricparts.centriccatalog.com/Inquiry/PartInt.aspx?pn=121.61053&id=WEB_DISC&v=LD&y=1965&m=54&mm=688&uid=ANR&sid=0
>
> There are actually three different brand names used. I think C-Tek is the 'bargain' brand, although I'm not sure. Centric is the premium OEM replacement brand, while StopTech is the high-end brand. All three seem to use the same basic design, but the Centric and StopTech rotors use better materials and feature a premium finish. Here's a link to the description of the Centric premium rotors:
>
> http://www.centricparts.com/products/centric-premium-brake-rotors
>
> And here is the description of the higher-end StopTech rotors, which are the same as the Centric rotors except with the benefit of optional features such as cryo treatment, slotting, drilling, or any combination of the three:
>
> http://www.centricparts.com/products/stoptech-sport-rotors
>
> Best of all is the price--these high-quality rotors are much, MUCH less expensive than custom Wilwood rotors, or rotors that are intended for other applications (such as Porsche) that go through an extensive/expensive machining/klugeing process to make them suitable for Pantera use. For literally less than half the cost, you can just pull quality rotors out of a box and bolt them right up to the front of your Pantera. Happy days!
>
> The standard rotors are available from Summit, although their online catalog isn't smart enough to list them by application (1965-67 Mustang). Going backwards from the Centric catalog and searching on the part number, these appeared:
>
> https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ceb-120-61053
>
> The rest of the offerings can be found in a similar fashion; here's an ugly link to the StopTech offerings:
>
> https://www.summitracing.com/search/year/1965/make/ford/model/mustang/department/brake-systems/part-type/brake-rotors?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&N=4294947032%2B4294951343%2B4294951333%2B4294947838%2B4294947817%2B402150
>
> A word on drilled rotors--most people who run cars hard agree that drilled rotors are a bad idea. They were fashionable for awhile, as they nominally offered better cooling, but they also tend to lead to cracks. Race cars that used drilled rotors usually see them thrown in the trash at the end of the day. They look cool, but aren't really a good solution, and most race cars no longer rely on cross-drilling.
>
> Slotting the rotors does seem to pay big dividends with no penalties. The slots sweep away pad debris and water, offering superior stopping performance.
>
> Cryo treatment also pays dividends. Through some magic that isn't well-explained (I'm sure you can Google it and find out specifically why it improves rotor life), cryo treatment makes the rotors last longer.
>
> So, to my mind, the best possible option would be a cryo-treated, slotted rotor. The slots make the rotors 'handed' (that is, there is a left and right side rotor), while the plain rotors are designed to be run on either side. The part numbers for the slotted rotors including "L" or "R" at the end accordingly.
>
> If you search on the part number, you can find these rotors on Amazon, PartsGeek.com and other places as well. Generally the parts prices are lower than Summit, but Summit offers free shipping while the others charge $25 each or something like that, meaning that the best overall deal is probably from Summit. You can probably also order them direct from your local auto parts store, if that turns you on.
>
> Over 100 of you have already installed these rotors on the front of your Panteras, so you know that they fit and they work great. That means the rest of you can buy with confidence.
>
> One final word on this subject: The stock solid brake rotors work absolutely fine for 90% of Pantera owners, perhaps even more. If you have never pushed your car hard enough so that the brakes overheated, so the pedal got squishy and the pads started stinking, then you will see ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT from changing to these vented rotors. However, if you have found yourself at the bottom of a winding mountain road with a long brake pedal, or had to back off during a track day because the brakes started going away, this is a very simple, cheap way to at least initially address the problem.
>
> Granted, a full-on Godzilla Wilwood brake setup will certainly offer superior performance under extreme use. But for aggressive street driving or moderate track-day work, these vented front rotors, in conjunction with the stock rear rotors, with good Porterfield pads, braided stainless hoses, a master cylinder in good condition, and the stock proportining valve in good working order, will likely produce all the braking power you will ever need.
>
> (Note that the stock Pantera rear rotor has a larger diameter than the front rotor, so these rotors will NOT work in the rear. It's quite likely another Ford product has a rotor that would do the job, but unfortunately I don't have knowledge of that, although I do plan to research it someday....)
>
> Photos of the StopTech 126-61053CSL (slotted/cryo) rotor appear below.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
Mike,
Do you have the part number of the ones you ordered from summit?
I ordered from the tire rack and got hub/rotor assemblies.
Forest
__________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: B Hower via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 9:39 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] FANTASTIC brake rotor news!
> Hi guys,
>
> Some years ago, some smart people here figured out that 1965-1967
Mustang front brake rotors were a perfect replacement for the stock
Pantera front rotors, with the advantage that they were vented. The
Euro GTS had vented rotors as an option, but original Euro vented
rotors are rare and exceptionally expensive.
>
> Stock Mustang rotors were cheap and readily available until a few
years ago. Then the industry changed, and instead of manufacturing
them like before (where the hub and the rotor were two separate parts,
as on the Pantera), they went to a one-piece casting where the hub was
cast integral with the rotor. While they were a cheap and reasonable
option for the Mustang crowd, that made them no longer suitable for
Pantera use.
>
> A few years ago, I stumbled across a Mustang vintage race prep shop
in southern California that said they had tooled up to reproduce
original-spec Mustang rotors, produced by a company called Centric.
Besides the normal option, they also offered them with nice optional
features, such as slotted surface, cryogenic treatment, or both. I
organized a group buy here, and over 100 of you ordered some. I filled
the orders, but then it wasn't possible to get any more unless I did
another volume buy.
>
> Fast-forward to 2017. Turns out Centric is the OEM arm of the
aftermarket company Stoptech (or perhaps Stoptech is the aftermarket
arm of the OEM supplier Centric). And it further turns out that these
discs are now readily available from multiple sources, for a fair bit
less (maybe even substantially less) than what I had to pay, and was
selling them for.
>
> I just ordered a pair of slotted, cryo-treated rotors from Summit for
a guy in Germany, and they are PERFECT. They will bolt right up to the
front end of the Pantera in place of the stock solid rotors. The
outside diameter is ever so slightly different (no factor), as is the
offset. However, when De Tomaso engineers designed the front end,
somebody forgot to carry a '1' and the caliper offset was incorrect
relative to the stock solid rotors, so a thin spacer had to be
introduced to space the caliper inboard. The different offset of these
Centric rotors means that band-aid spacer is removed, and the caliper
is thus perfectly centered on the rotor.
>
> Centric offers a dizzying array of options, starting with a plain,
standard OEM-style Mustang rotor, all the way to a cross-drilled,
slotted, cryogenically treated rotor (slotting makes them handed, with
different part number for left and right).
>
> This link takes you to the Centric catalog where all the rotors are
listed--16 in all:
>
>
[1]https://centricparts.centriccatalog.com/Inquiry/PartInt.aspx?pn=121.
61053&id=WEB_DISC&v=LD&y=1965&m=54&mm=688&uid=ANR&sid=0
>
> There are actually three different brand names used. I think C-Tek
is the 'bargain' brand, although I'm not sure. Centric is the premium
OEM replacement brand, while StopTech is the high-end brand. All three
seem to use the same basic design, but the Centric and StopTech rotors
use better materials and feature a premium finish. Here's a link to
the description of the Centric premium rotors:
>
> [2]http://www.centricparts.com/products/centric-premium-brake-rotors
>
> And here is the description of the higher-end StopTech rotors, which
are the same as the Centric rotors except with the benefit of optional
features such as cryo treatment, slotting, drilling, or any combination
of the three:
>
> [3]http://www.centricparts.com/products/stoptech-sport-rotors
>
> Best of all is the price--these high-quality rotors are much, MUCH
less expensive than custom Wilwood rotors, or rotors that are intended
for other applications (such as Porsche) that go through an
extensive/expensive machining/klugeing process to make them suitable
for Pantera use. For literally less than half the cost, you can just
pull quality rotors out of a box and bolt them right up to the front of
your Pantera. Happy days!
>
> The standard rotors are available from Summit, although their online
catalog isn't smart enough to list them by application (1965-67
Mustang). Going backwards from the Centric catalog and searching on
the part number, these appeared:
>
> [4]https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ceb-120-61053
>
> The rest of the offerings can be found in a similar fashion; here's
an ugly link to the StopTech offerings:
>
>
[5]https://www.summitracing.com/search/year/1965/make/ford/model/mustan
g/department/brake-systems/part-type/brake-rotors?SortBy=Default&SortOr
der=Ascending&N=4294947032%2B4294951343%2B4294951333%2B4294947838%2B429
4947817%2B402150
>
> A word on drilled rotors--most people who run cars hard agree that
drilled rotors are a bad idea. They were fashionable for awhile, as
they nominally offered better cooling, but they also tend to lead to
cracks. Race cars that used drilled rotors usually see them thrown in
the trash at the end of the day. They look cool, but aren't really a
good solution, and most race cars no longer rely on cross-drilling.
>
> Slotting the rotors does seem to pay big dividends with no
penalties. The slots sweep away pad debris and water, offering
superior stopping performance.
>
> Cryo treatment also pays dividends. Through some magic that isn't
well-explained (I'm sure you can Google it and find out specifically
why it improves rotor life), cryo treatment makes the rotors last
longer.
>
> So, to my mind, the best possible option would be a cryo-treated,
slotted rotor. The slots make the rotors 'handed' (that is, there is a
left and right side rotor), while the plain rotors are designed to be
run on either side. The part numbers for the slotted rotors including
"L" or "R" at the end accordingly.
>
> If you search on the part number, you can find these rotors on
Amazon, PartsGeek.com and other places as well. Generally the parts
prices are lower than Summit, but Summit offers free shipping while the
others charge $25 each or something like that, meaning that the best
overall deal is probably from Summit. You can probably also order them
direct from your local auto parts store, if that turns you on.
>
> Over 100 of you have already installed these rotors on the front of
your Panteras, so you know that they fit and they work great. That
means the rest of you can buy with confidence.
>
> One final word on this subject: The stock solid brake rotors work
absolutely fine for 90% of Pantera owners, perhaps even more. If you
have never pushed your car hard enough so that the brakes overheated,
so the pedal got squishy and the pads started stinking, then you will
see ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT from changing to these vented rotors.
However, if you have found yourself at the bottom of a winding mountain
road with a long brake pedal, or had to back off during a track day
because the brakes started going away, this is a very simple, cheap way
to at least initially address the problem.
>
> Granted, a full-on Godzilla Wilwood brake setup will certainly offer
superior performance under extreme use. But for aggressive street
driving or moderate track-day work, these vented front rotors, in
conjunction with the stock rear rotors, with good Porterfield pads,
braided stainless hoses, a master cylinder in good condition, and the
stock proportining valve in good working order, will likely produce all
the braking power you will ever need.
>
> (Note that the stock Pantera rear rotor has a larger diameter than
the front rotor, so these rotors will NOT work in the rear. It's quite
likely another Ford product has a rotor that would do the job, but
unfortunately I don't have knowledge of that, although I do plan to
research it someday....)
>
> Photos of the StopTech 126-61053CSL (slotted/cryo) rotor appear
below.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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[7]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
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list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. https://centricparts.centriccatalog.com/Inquiry/PartInt.aspx?pn=121.61053&id=WEB_DISC&v=LD&y=1965&m=54&mm=688&uid=ANR&sid=0
2. http://www.centricparts.com/products/centric-premium-brake-rotors
3. http://www.centricparts.com/products/stoptech-sport-rotors
4. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ceb-120-61053
5. https://www.summitracing.com/search/year/1965/make/ford/model/mustang/department/brake-systems/part-type/brake-rotors?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&N=4294947032%2B4294951343%2B4294951333%2B4294947838%2B4294947817%2B402150
6. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
More information about the DeTomaso
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