[DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven shock adjustments

Mike & Elizabeth Thomas mbefthomas at comcast.net
Sun Dec 31 15:03:08 EST 2017


Right.  When I had the Aldens, I had acutally ordered a set of shorter
springs for the front, but the shocks started failing before I swapped out
and decided to get a set of Konis from DQ.  I may contact him to see about a
shorter front spring.

 

From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 11:10 AM
To: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'Don Thomas'
<dtpantera at gmail.com>; 'DeTomaso_List' <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven shock
adjustments

 

I was only half way through that thought and must have pressed the wrong
key....

 

What's the limiting factor on the right front, tire hits fender, shock out
of adjustment? Remember very few people are running wheels and tire
combinations the Pantera was designed for and came with. If it's aesthetic
appearance you are after then setting ground clearance equal all round is
sufficient, but for 'optimal handling' I'd set the car up on corner weights
with driver in the seat and half a tank of gas.

 

For street cars and coil over shocks it's often a bit of a compromise and I
have always been of the opinion, it is not necessarily optimally thought out
by owners and vendors. A lot of aftermarket shock options when set where
owners would like them have zero pre-load on the spring. I've seen vendors
supply zip ties to keep springs in place when the suspension is unloaded,
that is far from optimal, much better to use helper springs to keep at least
some load on the spring or a shorter shock absorber. 

 

If you have run out of shock adjustment to get the desired ride height then
your shock and/or springs are likely too long, you want to get to a point
you have a small amount of pre-load. I personally think that on the front of
a Pantera a shorter uncompressed shock with a  10" spring is often a better
option.

 

This thought was resurrected recently as I'm modifying a 280Z for my son and
sectioning the struts for a coil over conversion. In the case of the Z cars
it can be done in such a way that the ride height can be adjusted
independent of spring pre-load.

 

Julian

  _____  

From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com <mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com>
>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 11:00 AM
To: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas; 'Don Thomas'; 'DeTomaso_List'
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven shock
adjustments 

 

 

 

Sent from Outlook <http://aka.ms/weboutlook> 

 

  _____  

From: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net
<mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net> >
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 10:03 AM
To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Don Thomas'; 'DeTomaso_List'
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven shock
adjustments 

 

This question brings up a curiosity I've had about #6328 since I first put
the adjustable Alden coilovers, then the set of Konis from DQ, on the car.

I wanted to set the ride height such that the car was level all around and
the rear lower A arms were parallel to the ground, what I understand was
Dallara's intent when he designed the suspension for the Pantera for optimal
handling.  However, I could not quite get there: When I went to adjust the
front coilovers, there is almost a 3/4" difference left to right to get the
front of the car level side to side.  When I realized the right front was
the limiting factor, I adjusted the rest to match, and had to stop there.
At this setting, when measured at the rocker front and back, both sides,
there is no more then 1/8" difference at any location.  This was done with a
full tank of fuel, but without a driver.  The car would still have to drop
another 1/2" to get the rear A arms parallel to the ground.

Does this affect the way the car drives?  Probably not, but it became a
curiosity when I was trying to set it up.  I did not do any other
measurements to compare such as the distance between shock mounting points
side to side, etc., and will have that checked and corrected if possible
when the car goes in for restoration in a year or two.  I also know the car
was hit at some point in the left rear, but don't believe that twisted the
monocoque as all doors and panels align properly and the majority of the car
is dead straight (some sheet metal issues where the repair was done that
will need reworking).

Thoughts?  Is this not uncommon?
What say you?

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of Julian Kift
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 7:56 AM
To: Don Thomas <dtpantera at gmail.com <mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com> >;
DeTomaso_List
<DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?

Compressed length, uncompressed length or length at normal road height at
rest?


Just about everything you could want from a chassis/suspension datum
perspective is here at Ted Mitchell's Vader Racing site;


http://www.vaderacing.com/tech.htm

Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> > on behalf of Don
Thomas <dtpantera at gmail.com <mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com> >
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 10:48 PM
To: DeTomaso_List
Subject: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?

What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?


Best regards,
-dt
Don Thomas

-------------- next part --------------
   Right.  When I had the Aldens, I had acutally ordered a set of shorter
   springs for the front, but the shocks started failing before I swapped
   out and decided to get a set of Konis from DQ.  I may contact him to
   see about a shorter front spring.


   From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
   Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 11:10 AM
   To: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'Don Thomas'
   <dtpantera at gmail.com>; 'DeTomaso_List'
   <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven
   shock adjustments


   I was only half way through that thought and must have pressed the
   wrong key....


   What's the limiting factor on the right front, tire hits fender, shock
   out of adjustment? Remember very few people are running wheels and tire
   combinations the Pantera was designed for and came with. If it's
   aesthetic appearance you are after then setting ground clearance equal
   all round is sufficient, but for 'optimal handling' I'd set the car up
   on corner weights with driver in the seat and half a tank of gas.


   For street cars and coil over shocks it's often a bit of a compromise
   and I have always been of the opinion, it is not necessarily optimally
   thought out by owners and vendors. A lot of aftermarket shock options
   when set where owners would like them have zero pre-load on the spring.
   I've seen vendors supply zip ties to keep springs in place when the
   suspension is unloaded, that is far from optimal, much better to use
   helper springs to keep at least some load on the spring or a shorter
   shock absorber.


   If you have run out of shock adjustment to get the desired ride height
   then your shock and/or springs are likely too long, you want to get
   to a point you have a small amount of pre-load. I personally think that
   on the front of a Pantera a shorter uncompressed shock with a  10"
   spring is often a better option.


   This thought was resurrected recently as I'm modifying a 280Z for my
   son and sectioning the struts for a coil over conversion. In the case
   of the Z cars it can be done in such a way that the ride height can be
   adjusted independent of spring pre-load.


   Julian
    _____________________________________________________________________

   From: Julian Kift <[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 11:00 AM
   To: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas; 'Don Thomas'; 'DeTomaso_List'
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven
   shock adjustments




   Sent from [2]Outlook

    _____________________________________________________________________

   From: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <[3]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
   Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 10:03 AM
   To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Don Thomas'; 'DeTomaso_List'
   Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven
   shock adjustments


   This question brings up a curiosity I've had about #6328 since I first
   put
   the adjustable Alden coilovers, then the set of Konis from DQ, on the
   car.
   I wanted to set the ride height such that the car was level all around
   and
   the rear lower A arms were parallel to the ground, what I understand
   was
   Dallara's intent when he designed the suspension for the Pantera for
   optimal
   handling.  However, I could not quite get there: When I went to adjust
   the
   front coilovers, there is almost a 3/4" difference left to right to get
   the
   front of the car level side to side.  When I realized the right front
   was
   the limiting factor, I adjusted the rest to match, and had to stop
   there.
   At this setting, when measured at the rocker front and back, both
   sides,
   there is no more then 1/8" difference at any location.  This was done
   with a
   full tank of fuel, but without a driver.  The car would still have to
   drop
   another 1/2" to get the rear A arms parallel to the ground.
   Does this affect the way the car drives?  Probably not, but it became a
   curiosity when I was trying to set it up.  I did not do any other
   measurements to compare such as the distance between shock mounting
   points
   side to side, etc., and will have that checked and corrected if
   possible
   when the car goes in for restoration in a year or two.  I also know the
   car
   was hit at some point in the left rear, but don't believe that twisted
   the
   monocoque as all doors and panels align properly and the majority of
   the car
   is dead straight (some sheet metal issues where the repair was done
   that
   will need reworking).
   Thoughts?  Is this not uncommon?
   What say you?
   Thanks
   -----Original Message-----
   From: DeTomaso [[4]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
   Behalf
   Of Julian Kift
   Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 7:56 AM
   To: Don Thomas <[5]dtpantera at gmail.com>; DeTomaso_List
   <[6]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
   Compressed length, uncompressed length or length at normal road height
   at
   rest?
   Just about everything you could want from a chassis/suspension datum
   perspective is here at Ted Mitchell's Vader Racing site;
   [7]http://www.vaderacing.com/tech.htm
   Julian
   ________________________________
   From: DeTomaso <[8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
   of Don
   Thomas <[9]dtpantera at gmail.com>
   Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 10:48 PM
   To: DeTomaso_List
   Subject: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
   What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
   Best regards,
   -dt
   Don Thomas

References

   1. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   2. http://aka.ms/weboutlook
   3. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
   4. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   5. mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com
   6. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   7. http://www.vaderacing.com/tech.htm
   8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   9. mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com


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