[DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven shock adjustments
Mike & Elizabeth Thomas
mbefthomas at comcast.net
Sun Dec 31 15:00:18 EST 2017
As I mentioned in my post, I measured at the front and rear, both sides, at the bottom of rockers. Not at the pinch-welded flange but at the lowest point horizontal to the ground. I think I’ll also do a measurement from the frame rails at the lower suspension mounting points when the car is settled (at the front) to see if that is the same side to side.
MIke
From: Pantdino [mailto:pantdino at aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 11:10 AM
To: julian_kift at hotmail.com; mbefthomas at comcast.net; dtpantera at gmail.com; DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven shock adjustments
When you say
there is almost a 3/4" difference left to right to get
the
front of the car level side to side
where are you measuring? If it is the fender lip, it could just be some asymmetry in the fender. These cars were not made by robots like today's cars and some human error existed.
For a Dino, for example, there isn't and never was any such thing as a "replacement fender". Each fender was made by a guy over a wooden buck and no two were exactly alike.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com <mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com> >
To: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net <mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net> >; 'Don Thomas' <dtpantera at gmail.com <mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com> >; 'DeTomaso_List' <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com> >
Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 11:00 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven shock adjustments
What's the limiting factor on the right front, tire hits fender, shock
out of adjustment? Remember very few people are running wheels and tire
combinations the Pantera was designed for and came with.
For street cars and coil over shocks it's a bit of a compromise and I
have always been of the opinion not necessarily optimally thought out
by owners and vendors. A lot of aftermarket shock options when set
where owners would like them have zero pre-load on the spring. I've
seen vendors supply zip ties to keep springs in place when the
suspension is unloaded, that is far from optimal.
This thought was resurrected recently as I'm modifying a 280Z for my
son and sectioning the struts for a coil over conversion. In the case
of the Z cars it can be done in such a way that the ride height is
independent of spring pre-load.
Sent from [1]Outlook
__________________________________________________________________
From: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net <mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net> >
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 10:03 AM
To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Don Thomas'; 'DeTomaso_List'
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven
shock adjustments
This question brings up a curiosity I've had about #6328 since I first
put
the adjustable Alden coilovers, then the set of Konis from DQ, on the
car.
I wanted to set the ride height such that the car was level all around
and
the rear lower A arms were parallel to the ground, what I understand
was
Dallara's intent when he designed the suspension for the Pantera for
optimal
handling. However, I could not quite get there: When I went to adjust
the
front coilovers, there is almost a 3/4" difference left to right to get
the
front of the car level side to side. When I realized the right front
was
the limiting factor, I adjusted the rest to match, and had to stop
there.
At this setting, when measured at the rocker front and back, both
sides,
there is no more then 1/8" difference at any location. This was done
with a
full tank of fuel, but without a driver. The car would still have to
drop
another 1/2" to get the rear A arms parallel to the ground.
Does this affect the way the car drives? Probably not, but it became a
curiosity when I was trying to set it up. I did not do any other
measurements to compare such as the distance between shock mounting
points
side to side, etc., and will have that checked and corrected if
possible
when the car goes in for restoration in a year or two. I also know the
car
was hit at some point in the left rear, but don't believe that twisted
the
monocoque as all doors and panels align properly and the majority of
the car
is dead straight (some sheet metal issues where the repair was done
that
will need reworking).
Thoughts? Is this not uncommon?
What say you?
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[2]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?> ] On
Behalf
Of Julian Kift
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 7:56 AM
To: Don Thomas <dtpantera at gmail.com <mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com> >; DeTomaso_List
<DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com> >
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
Compressed length, uncompressed length or length at normal road height
at
rest?
Just about everything you could want from a chassis/suspension datum
perspective is here at Ted Mitchell's Vader Racing site;
[3]http://www.vaderacing.com/tech.htm
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:bounces at server.detomasolist.com> > on behalf of
Don
Thomas <dtpantera at gmail.com <mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com> >
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 10:48 PM
To: DeTomaso_List
Subject: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
Best regards,
-dt
Don Thomas
References
1. http://aka.ms/weboutlook
2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?>
3. http://www.vaderacing.com/tech.htm
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-------------- next part --------------
As I mentioned in my post, I measured at the front and rear, both
sides, at the bottom of rockers. Not at the pinch-welded flange but at
the lowest point horizontal to the ground. I think I'll also do a
measurement from the frame rails at the lower suspension mounting
points when the car is settled (at the front) to see if that is the
same side to side.
MIke
From: Pantdino [mailto:pantdino at aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 11:10 AM
To: julian_kift at hotmail.com; mbefthomas at comcast.net;
dtpantera at gmail.com; DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven
shock adjustments
When you say
there is almost a 3/4" difference left to right to get
the
front of the car level side to side
where are you measuring? If it is the fender lip, it could just be
some asymmetry in the fender. These cars were not made by robots like
today's cars and some human error existed.
For a Dino, for example, there isn't and never was any such thing as a
"replacement fender". Each fender was made by a guy over a wooden buck
and no two were exactly alike.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Kift <[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <[2]mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'Don Thomas'
<[3]dtpantera at gmail.com>; 'DeTomaso_List'
<[4]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 31, 2017 11:00 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven
shock adjustments
What's the limiting factor on the right front, tire hits fender, shock
out of adjustment? Remember very few people are running wheels and tire
combinations the Pantera was designed for and came with.
For street cars and coil over shocks it's a bit of a compromise and I
have always been of the opinion not necessarily optimally thought out
by owners and vendors. A lot of aftermarket shock options when set
where owners would like them have zero pre-load on the spring. I've
seen vendors supply zip ties to keep springs in place when the
suspension is unloaded, that is far from optimal.
This thought was resurrected recently as I'm modifying a 280Z for my
son and sectioning the struts for a coil over conversion. In the case
of the Z cars it can be done in such a way that the ride height is
independent of spring pre-load.
Sent from [1]Outlook
__________________________________________________________________
From: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <[5]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 10:03 AM
To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Don Thomas'; 'DeTomaso_List'
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven
shock adjustments
This question brings up a curiosity I've had about #6328 since I first
put
the adjustable Alden coilovers, then the set of Konis from DQ, on the
car.
I wanted to set the ride height such that the car was level all around
and
the rear lower A arms were parallel to the ground, what I understand
was
Dallara's intent when he designed the suspension for the Pantera for
optimal
handling. However, I could not quite get there: When I went to adjust
the
front coilovers, there is almost a 3/4" difference left to right to get
the
front of the car level side to side. When I realized the right front
was
the limiting factor, I adjusted the rest to match, and had to stop
there.
At this setting, when measured at the rocker front and back, both
sides,
there is no more then 1/8" difference at any location. This was done
with a
full tank of fuel, but without a driver. The car would still have to
drop
another 1/2" to get the rear A arms parallel to the ground.
Does this affect the way the car drives? Probably not, but it became a
curiosity when I was trying to set it up. I did not do any other
measurements to compare such as the distance between shock mounting
points
side to side, etc., and will have that checked and corrected if
possible
when the car goes in for restoration in a year or two. I also know the
car
was hit at some point in the left rear, but don't believe that twisted
the
monocoque as all doors and panels align properly and the majority of
the car
is dead straight (some sheet metal issues where the repair was done
that
will need reworking).
Thoughts? Is this not uncommon?
What say you?
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[2][6]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On
Behalf
Of Julian Kift
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 7:56 AM
To: Don Thomas <[7]dtpantera at gmail.com>; DeTomaso_List
<[8]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
Compressed length, uncompressed length or length at normal road height
at
rest?
Just about everything you could want from a chassis/suspension datum
perspective is here at Ted Mitchell's Vader Racing site;
[3][9]http://www.vaderacing.com/tech.htm
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-[10]bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of
Don
Thomas <[11]dtpantera at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 10:48 PM
To: DeTomaso_List
Subject: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
Best regards,
-dt
Don Thomas
References
1. [12]http://aka.ms/weboutlook
2. [13]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
3. [14]http://www.vaderacing.com/tech.htm
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[15]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
2. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
3. mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com
4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
6. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
7. mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com
8. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
9. http://www.vaderacing.com/tech.htm
10. mailto:bounces at server.detomasolist.com
11. mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com
12. http://aka.ms/weboutlook
13. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com?
14. http://www.vaderacing.com/tech.htm
15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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