[DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven shock adjustments

Sun Dec 31 14:57:49 EST 2017

Sorry, may not have been clear on that part.  The limfac was that I had run
out of adjustment on the shock itself, and as you are referring to below,
perhaps setting that side up with less preload than what is on the left side
with ¾” less drop of the spring. 

From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 11:00 AM
To: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'Don Thomas'
<dtpantera at gmail.com>; 'DeTomaso_List' <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven shock
adjustments

What's the limiting factor on the right front, tire hits fender, shock out
of adjustment? Remember very few people are running wheels and tire
combinations the Pantera was designed for and came with.

For street cars and coil over shocks it's a bit of a compromise and I have
always been of the opinion not necessarily optimally thought out by owners
and vendors. A lot of aftermarket shock options when set where owners would
like them have zero pre-load on the spring. I've seen vendors supply zip
ties to keep springs in place when the suspension is unloaded, that is far
from optimal.

This thought was resurrected recently as I'm modifying a 280Z for my son and
sectioning the struts for a coil over conversion. In the case of the Z cars
it can be done in such a way that the ride height is independent of spring
pre-load.

Sent from Outlook <http://aka.ms/weboutlook> 

  _____  

From: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net
<mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net> >
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 10:03 AM
To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Don Thomas'; 'DeTomaso_List'
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven shock
adjustments 

This question brings up a curiosity I've had about #6328 since I first put
the adjustable Alden coilovers, then the set of Konis from DQ, on the car.

I wanted to set the ride height such that the car was level all around and
the rear lower A arms were parallel to the ground, what I understand was
Dallara's intent when he designed the suspension for the Pantera for optimal
handling.  However, I could not quite get there: When I went to adjust the
front coilovers, there is almost a 3/4" difference left to right to get the
front of the car level side to side.  When I realized the right front was
the limiting factor, I adjusted the rest to match, and had to stop there.
At this setting, when measured at the rocker front and back, both sides,
there is no more then 1/8" difference at any location.  This was done with a
full tank of fuel, but without a driver.  The car would still have to drop
another 1/2" to get the rear A arms parallel to the ground.

Does this affect the way the car drives?  Probably not, but it became a
curiosity when I was trying to set it up.  I did not do any other
measurements to compare such as the distance between shock mounting points
side to side, etc., and will have that checked and corrected if possible
when the car goes in for restoration in a year or two.  I also know the car
was hit at some point in the left rear, but don't believe that twisted the
monocoque as all doors and panels align properly and the majority of the car
is dead straight (some sheet metal issues where the repair was done that
will need reworking).

Thoughts?  Is this not uncommon?
What say you?

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of Julian Kift
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 7:56 AM
To: Don Thomas <dtpantera at gmail.com <mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com> >;
DeTomaso_List
<DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?

Compressed length, uncompressed length or length at normal road height at
rest?

Just about everything you could want from a chassis/suspension datum
perspective is here at Ted Mitchell's Vader Racing site;

http://www.vaderacing.com/tech.htm

Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> > on behalf of Don
Thomas <dtpantera at gmail.com <mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com> >
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 10:48 PM
To: DeTomaso_List
Subject: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?

What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?

Best regards,
-dt
Don Thomas

-------------- next part --------------
   Sorry, may not have been clear on that part.  The limfac was that I had
   run out of adjustment on the shock itself, and as you are referring to
   below, perhaps setting that side up with less preload than what is on
   the left side with 3/4" less drop of the spring.

   From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
   Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 11:00 AM
   To: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>; 'Don Thomas'
   <dtpantera at gmail.com>; 'DeTomaso_List'
   <DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven
   shock adjustments

   What's the limiting factor on the right front, tire hits fender, shock
   out of adjustment? Remember very few people are running wheels and tire
   combinations the Pantera was designed for and came with.

   For street cars and coil over shocks it's a bit of a compromise and I
   have always been of the opinion not necessarily optimally thought out
   by owners and vendors. A lot of aftermarket shock options when set
   where owners would like them have zero pre-load on the spring. I've
   seen vendors supply zip ties to keep springs in place when the
   suspension is unloaded, that is far from optimal.

   This thought was resurrected recently as I'm modifying a 280Z for my
   son and sectioning the struts for a coil over conversion. In the case
   of the Z cars it can be done in such a way that the ride height is
   independent of spring pre-load.

   Sent from [1]Outlook

    _____________________________________________________________________

   From: Mike & Elizabeth Thomas <[2]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
   Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 10:03 AM
   To: 'Julian Kift'; 'Don Thomas'; 'DeTomaso_List'
   Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ? - Uneven
   shock adjustments

   This question brings up a curiosity I've had about #6328 since I first
   put
   the adjustable Alden coilovers, then the set of Konis from DQ, on the
   car.
   I wanted to set the ride height such that the car was level all around
   and
   the rear lower A arms were parallel to the ground, what I understand
   was
   Dallara's intent when he designed the suspension for the Pantera for
   optimal
   handling.  However, I could not quite get there: When I went to adjust
   the
   front coilovers, there is almost a 3/4" difference left to right to get
   the
   front of the car level side to side.  When I realized the right front
   was
   the limiting factor, I adjusted the rest to match, and had to stop
   there.
   At this setting, when measured at the rocker front and back, both
   sides,
   there is no more then 1/8" difference at any location.  This was done
   with a
   full tank of fuel, but without a driver.  The car would still have to
   drop
   another 1/2" to get the rear A arms parallel to the ground.
   Does this affect the way the car drives?  Probably not, but it became a
   curiosity when I was trying to set it up.  I did not do any other
   measurements to compare such as the distance between shock mounting
   points
   side to side, etc., and will have that checked and corrected if
   possible
   when the car goes in for restoration in a year or two.  I also know the
   car
   was hit at some point in the left rear, but don't believe that twisted
   the
   monocoque as all doors and panels align properly and the majority of
   the car
   is dead straight (some sheet metal issues where the repair was done
   that
   will need reworking).
   Thoughts?  Is this not uncommon?
   What say you?
   Thanks
   -----Original Message-----
   From: DeTomaso [[3]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
   Behalf
   Of Julian Kift
   Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2017 7:56 AM
   To: Don Thomas <[4]dtpantera at gmail.com>; DeTomaso_List
   <[5]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
   Compressed length, uncompressed length or length at normal road height
   at
   rest?
   Just about everything you could want from a chassis/suspension datum
   perspective is here at Ted Mitchell's Vader Racing site;
   [6]http://www.vaderacing.com/tech.htm
   Julian
   ________________________________
   From: DeTomaso <[7]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
   of Don
   Thomas <[8]dtpantera at gmail.com>
   Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2017 10:48 PM
   To: DeTomaso_List
   Subject: [DeTomaso] What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
   What's the shock Eye to Eye length ?
   Best regards,
   -dt
   Don Thomas

References

   1. http://aka.ms/weboutlook
   2. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
   3. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   4. mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com
   5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   6. http://www.vaderacing.com/tech.htm
   7. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   8. mailto:dtpantera at gmail.com