[DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera

davek detomaso.pantera at verizon.net
Wed Aug 30 15:55:14 EDT 2017


I visited the Albins booth at the PRI show last year and looked at their ST6. It was also being shown in the SIN GT4 racecar, and I know of at least one person currently installing this into an Ultima. Very nice, but expense (compared to the ZF).... and it wasn't around in 2002. 


At that same show, Quife was showing their new line of "modular" sequential transaxles and their ZFQ.


I doubt any of these would be "legal" for Group 3 vintage racing. One "upgrade" might be to convert the ZF to dog-rings and/or straight-cut gears. Removing the synchros gives a bit more room for larger gears .... although this may also not be technically legal for historic racing.


And for street use, the Graziano looks like a nice alternative for a more modern, and potentially paddle shifted, option ... if one was into that sort of thing. 


Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: davek <detomaso.pantera at verizon.net>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 12:23 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera - Photo Attached



That was Richard Lihou, its featured in the spring 2002 issue of Pantera International (#110) and isprobably the fully sequential 6 speed transaxle and not the ZFQ that is the H pattern ZF replacement developed by Quaife more recently.



I'm surprised an Aussie didn't got for the local Albins options.



Julian


From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 12:12 PM
To: davek; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera - Photo Attached
 

I'm pretty sure the PI Quarterly covered a Pantera in Australia with a Quaife 6 speed a while ago.  I found a reference to 6 speeds referencing 94-24, not sure if that means issue 94, page 24?
Ken

      From: davek <detomaso.pantera at verizon.net>
 To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 11:26 AM
 Subject: [DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera - Photo Attached
   
  Julian, Steve,

  FYI, there was a Pantera at the Phoenix Fun Rally with what I believe
  was either a Fortin or Mendeola gearbox. It looked like a nice tidy
  installation. Attached is one of the pictures I took at that event.

  The ADA Pantera raced in the '90's with a 5-speed March gearbox. I had
  sourced a 6-speed version of the same, but these may be hard to find.

  Going back further, there were several race Panteras which ran
  Hewlands. But none, as far as I'm aware, that were homologated for
  Group 3 (which sounds like is the objective).

  Regards,
  Dave

  _____________________

I believe the reason that Quaife has not offered a Pantera variant is because it
's not a simple flip for the crown wheel & pinion with the inversion to run upsi
de down. I suspect if it was "easy' they would have done it by now and yet all t
he folks that I know who inquired were told there were no plans to offer a Pante
ra variant. That said you could try and run it in the GT40 orientation with the
input shaft over the output shafts, it would sit higher or provide opportunity t
o lower center of gravity by dropping the engine, that is assuming you can do th
at without modifying the frame rails or losing the oil pan on the asphalt!


There are also a number of failures reported on Quaife transaxles on GT40s.com w
hen used hard under racing conditions, although that might have been solved with
 later production. Even so, I personally think the real ZF is a better option th
an a ZFQ and if it were me I'd have the existing ZF inspected and rebuilt with a
ppropriate ratios for the tracks run. Of course you never get the flexibility a
true racing box like a Hewland would offer in switching ratios out to specific t
racks, the compromise option might be to have 2 ZF's one with ratios for long an
d the other short tracks. My ZF was in and out so often at one point I could do
the switch on my own in under 2 hours.


Given prior discussion on homologation and meeting 1973 specs etc. I expect you
would face some backlash from the sanctioing body on using a modern transaxle. T
hat said I think the later ADA Pantera Si ran in the 80's with a Hewland, so may
be that is an alternative?

Julian
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-------------- next part --------------
   I visited the Albins booth at the PRI show last year and looked at
   their ST6. It was also being shown in the SIN GT4 racecar, and I know
   of at least one person currently installing this into an Ultima. Very
   nice, but expense (compared to the ZF).... and it wasn't around in
   2002.

   At that same show, Quife was showing their new line of "modular"
   sequential transaxles and their ZFQ.

   I doubt any of these would be "legal" for Group 3 vintage racing. One
   "upgrade" might be to convert the ZF to dog-rings and/or straight-cut
   gears. Removing the synchros gives a bit more room for larger gears
   .... although this may also not be technically legal for historic
   racing.

   And for street use, the Graziano looks like a nice alternative for a
   more modern, and potentially paddle shifted, option ... if one was into
   that sort of thing.

   Dave
   -----Original Message-----
   From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   To: davek <detomaso.pantera at verizon.net>; Ken Green
   <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 12:23 pm
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera - Photo
   Attached
   That was Richard Lihou, its featured in the spring 2002 issue of
   Pantera International (#110) and is probably the fully sequential 6
   speed transaxle and not the ZFQ that is the H pattern ZF
   replacement developed by Quaife more recently.
   I'm surprised an Aussie didn't got for the local Albins options.
   Julian
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: DeTomaso <detomaso-[1]bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
   of Ken Green via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 12:12 PM
   To: davek; [3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera - Photo
   Attached

   I'm pretty sure the PI Quarterly covered a Pantera in Australia with a
   Quaife 6 speed a while ago.  I found a reference to 6
   speeds referencing 94-24, not sure if that means issue 94, page 24?
   Ken
         From: davek <[4]detomaso.pantera at verizon.net>
    To: [5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
    Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 11:26 AM
    Subject: [DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera - Photo Attached

     Julian, Steve,
     FYI, there was a Pantera at the Phoenix Fun Rally with what I believe
     was either a Fortin or Mendeola gearbox. It looked like a nice tidy
     installation. Attached is one of the pictures I took at that event.
     The ADA Pantera raced in the '90's with a 5-speed March gearbox. I
   had
     sourced a 6-speed version of the same, but these may be hard to find.
     Going back further, there were several race Panteras which ran
     Hewlands. But none, as far as I'm aware, that were homologated for
     Group 3 (which sounds like is the objective).
     Regards,
     Dave
     _____________________
   I believe the reason that Quaife has not offered a Pantera variant is
   because it
   's not a simple flip for the crown wheel & pinion with the inversion to
   run upsi
   de down. I suspect if it was "easy' they would have done it by now and
   yet all t
   he folks that I know who inquired were told there were no plans to
   offer a Pante
   ra variant. That said you could try and run it in the GT40 orientation
   with the
   input shaft over the output shafts, it would sit higher or provide
   opportunity t
   o lower center of gravity by dropping the engine, that is assuming you
   can do th
   at without modifying the frame rails or losing the oil pan on the
   asphalt!
   There are also a number of failures reported on Quaife transaxles on
   GT40s.com w
   hen used hard under racing conditions, although that might have been
   solved with
    later production. Even so, I personally think the real ZF is a better
   option th
   an a ZFQ and if it were me I'd have the existing ZF inspected and
   rebuilt with a
   ppropriate ratios for the tracks run. Of course you never get the
   flexibility a
   true racing box like a Hewland would offer in switching ratios out to
   specific t
   racks, the compromise option might be to have 2 ZF's one with ratios
   for long an
   d the other short tracks. My ZF was in and out so often at one point I
   could do
   the switch on my own in under 2 hours.
   Given prior discussion on homologation and meeting 1973 specs etc. I
   expect you
   would face some backlash from the sanctioing body on using a modern
   transaxle. T
   hat said I think the later ADA Pantera Si ran in the 80's with a
   Hewland, so may
   be that is an alternative?
   Julian
   _______________________________________________
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   discussion of issues surrounding all DeTomaso automobiles. This is an
   unmoderated mailing list ...
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.

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