[DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera - Photo Attached
Steve Lisa
stevelisa at patentit.com
Wed Aug 30 15:44:03 EDT 2017
That is tidy.
I know for sure I can't get away with anything but the ZF for FIA Group 3.
If I recall correctly, the FIA went so far as to specify a second set of
gears, and then at some point a second final drive -- but I can't recall
for sure. I frankly don't mind racing the ZF. They are not super-quick
shifts, and I need to be deliberate. But in its early-Group 3 trim the car
is a not a rocket and nor is super responsive on vintage tires. So, if it
is kept in that spirit, I don't see me changing it, other than perhaps
getting a gearbox with the second set of ratios or the different final
drive and learning how to change the final drive myself.
I will add, we kept breaking the five speed non-sequential Mendeola in our
Class 10 desert buggy, and that is why we went to the Fortin for that
class. We had fairly good luck with the Mendeola when we ran the lower HP
beam class 12 buggy, but even then we broke it a few times. Eventually, we
switched all our desert buggies from Mendeola's to Fortins, and ultimately
for the 10 car the six speed sequentail.
In contrast, I have driven in some NASA WERC endurance races (including the
25 Hours of Thunderhill) in the Prototype Development Group center seat
"prototype." It had about 500 HP mostly corvette drivetrain, but a
sequential Mendeola. It was very nice to drive, we used the clutch on all
the shifts, and it was never the weak link. I think that is the difference
between the desert and road racing. I think the sequential Fortin is at
least $10 grand more expensive than the Sequential Mendeola, but don't
quote me on that.
Regards,
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: 312-320-5888
<http://www.patentit.com>
*Scottsdale Office* | *P*: 480.535.6656 | *F:* 480.535.6628 | *A:* 7689
East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
*Chicago Office *|* P:* 312.752.4357 | *F:* 312.896.5633 | *A:* 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
www.PatentIt.com
This email is intended only for the recipient above, and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error, please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank you.
On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 11:21 AM, davek <detomaso.pantera at verizon.net>
wrote:
> Julian, Steve,
>
> FYI, there was a Pantera at the Phoenix Fun Rally with what I believe
> was either a Fortin or Mendeola gearbox. It looked like a nice tidy
> installation. Attached is one of the pictures I took at that event.
>
> The ADA Pantera raced in the '90's with a 5-speed March gearbox. I had
> sourced a 6-speed version of the same, but these may be hard to find.
>
> Going back further, there were several race Panteras which ran
> Hewlands. But none, as far as I'm aware, that were homologated for
> Group 3 (which sounds like is the objective).
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> _____________________
>
> I believe the reason that Quaife has not offered a Pantera variant is
> because it
> 's not a simple flip for the crown wheel & pinion with the inversion to
> run upsi
> de down. I suspect if it was "easy' they would have done it by now and yet
> all t
> he folks that I know who inquired were told there were no plans to offer a
> Pante
> ra variant. That said you could try and run it in the GT40 orientation
> with the
> input shaft over the output shafts, it would sit higher or provide
> opportunity t
> o lower center of gravity by dropping the engine, that is assuming you can
> do th
> at without modifying the frame rails or losing the oil pan on the asphalt!
>
>
> There are also a number of failures reported on Quaife transaxles on
> GT40s.com w
> hen used hard under racing conditions, although that might have been
> solved with
> later production. Even so, I personally think the real ZF is a better
> option th
> an a ZFQ and if it were me I'd have the existing ZF inspected and rebuilt
> with a
> ppropriate ratios for the tracks run. Of course you never get the
> flexibility a
> true racing box like a Hewland would offer in switching ratios out to
> specific t
> racks, the compromise option might be to have 2 ZF's one with ratios for
> long an
> d the other short tracks. My ZF was in and out so often at one point I
> could do
> the switch on my own in under 2 hours.
>
>
> Given prior discussion on homologation and meeting 1973 specs etc. I
> expect you
> would face some backlash from the sanctioing body on using a modern
> transaxle. T
> hat said I think the later ADA Pantera Si ran in the 80's with a Hewland,
> so may
> be that is an alternative?
>
> Julian
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
> the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
-------------- next part --------------
That is tidy. A
I know for sure I can't get away with anything but the ZF for FIA Group
3.A If I recall correctly, the FIA went so far as to specify a second
set of gears, and then at some point a second final drive -- but I
can't recall for sure.A I frankly don't mind racing the ZF.A They are
not super-quick shifts, and I need to be deliberate.A But in its
early-Group 3 trim the car is a not a rocket and nor is super
responsive on vintage tires.A So, if it is kept in that spirit, I
don't see me changing it, other than perhaps getting a gearbox with the
second set of ratios or the different final drive and learning how to
change the final drive myself.A
I will add, we kept breaking the five speed non-sequential Mendeola in
our Class 10 desert buggy, and that is why we went to the Fortin for
that class.A We had fairly good luck with the Mendeola when we ran the
lower HP beam class 12 buggy, but even then we broke it a few times.A
Eventually, we switched all our desert buggies from Mendeola's to
Fortins, and ultimately for the 10 car the six speed sequentail.
In contrast, I have driven in some NASA WERC endurance races (including
the 25 Hours of Thunderhill) in the Prototype Development Group center
seat "prototype." A It had about 500 HP mostly corvette drivetrain, but
a sequential Mendeola.A It was very nice to drive, we used the clutch
on all the shifts, and it was never the weak link.A I think that is
the difference between the desert and road racing. A I think the
sequential Fortin is at least $10 grand more expensive than the
Sequential Mendeola, but don't quote me on that.A
Regards,A
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: 312-320-5888
[1][SGL-Email-Logo.jpg]
Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
|A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A A: 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
[2]www.PatentIt.com
This email is intended only for the recipient above, and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error, please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 11:21 AM, davek
<[3]detomaso.pantera at verizon.net> wrote:
A A Julian, Steve,
A A FYI, there was a Pantera at the Phoenix Fun Rally with what I
believe
A A was either a Fortin or Mendeola gearbox. It looked like a nice
tidy
A A installation. Attached is one of the pictures I took at that
event.
A A The ADA Pantera raced in the '90's with a 5-speed March
gearbox. I had
A A sourced a 6-speed version of the same, but these may be hard to
find.
A A Going back further, there were several race Panteras which ran
A A Hewlands. But none, as far as I'm aware, that were homologated
for
A A Group 3 (which sounds like is the objective).
A A Regards,
A A Dave
A A _____________________
I believe the reason that Quaife has not offered a Pantera variant
is because it
's not a simple flip for the crown wheel & pinion with the inversion
to run upsi
de down. I suspect if it was "easy' they would have done it by now
and yet all t
he folks that I know who inquired were told there were no plans to
offer a Pante
ra variant. That said you could try and run it in the GT40
orientation with the
input shaft over the output shafts, it would sit higher or provide
opportunity t
o lower center of gravity by dropping the engine, that is assuming
you can do th
at without modifying the frame rails or losing the oil pan on the
asphalt!
There are also a number of failures reported on Quaife transaxles on
GT40s.com w
hen used hard under racing conditions, although that might have been
solved with
A later production. Even so, I personally think the real ZF is a
better option th
an a ZFQ and if it were me I'd have the existing ZF inspected and
rebuilt with a
ppropriate ratios for the tracks run. Of course you never get the
flexibility a
true racing box like a Hewland would offer in switching ratios out
to specific t
racks, the compromise option might be to have 2 ZF's one with ratios
for long an
d the other short tracks. My ZF was in and out so often at one point
I could do
the switch on my own in under 2 hours.
Given prior discussion on homologation and meeting 1973 specs etc. I
expect you
would face some backlash from the sanctioing body on using a modern
transaxle. T
hat said I think the later ADA Pantera Si ran in the 80's with a
Hewland, so may
be that is an alternative?
Julian
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[4]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[5]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. http://www.patentit.com/
2. http://www.PatentIt.com/
3. mailto:detomaso.pantera at verizon.net
4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
More information about the DeTomaso
mailing list