[DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera ?

Steve Lisa stevelisa at patentit.com
Sat Aug 26 14:51:23 EDT 2017


Julian....thanks.  Your comments make sense.  It is my goal, ultimately,
for two drivetrains.  The original motor and trans in true compliance with
the 12/72 FIA specs, which would be run spoaringly at snooty Gold  A
medallion  u events,, and then a racier motor, exhaust etc that would be
the mule for 80% of the events.

A hewland would be pretty sweet...

Regards,

Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: 312-320-5888

Scottsdale Office | P: 480.535.6656  |  F: 480.535.6628  |  A: 7689 E.
Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260

Chicago Office | P: 312.752.4357  |  F: 312.896.5633  |  A: 55 E. Monroe
Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603

On Aug 26, 2017 11:28 AM, "Julian Kift" <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I believe the reason that Quaife has not offered a Pantera variant is
> because it's not a simple flip for the crown wheel & pinion with the
> inversion to run upside down. I suspect if it was "easy' they would have
> done it by now and yet all the folks that I know who inquired were told
> there were no plans to offer a Pantera variant. That said you could try and
> run it in the GT40 orientation with the input shaft over the output shafts,
> it would sit higher or provide opportunity to lower center of gravity by
> dropping the engine, that is assuming you can do that without modifying the
> frame rails or losing the oil pan on the asphalt!
>
>
> There are also a number of failures reported on Quaife transaxles on
> GT40s.com when used hard under racing conditions, although that might have
> been solved with later production. Even so, I personally think the real ZF
> is a better option than a ZFQ and if it were me I'd have the existing
> ZF inspected and rebuilt with appropriate ratios for the tracks run. Of
> course you never get the flexibility a true racing box like a Hewland would
> offer in switching ratios out to specific tracks, the compromise option
> might be to have 2 ZF's one with ratios for long and the other short
> tracks. My ZF was in and out so often at one point I could do the switch on
> my own in under 2 hours.
>
>
> Given prior discussion on homologation and meeting 1973 specs etc. I
> expect you would face some backlash from the sanctioing body on using a
> modern transaxle. That said I think the later ADA Pantera Si ran in the
> 80's with a Hewland, so maybe that is an alternative?
>
> Julian
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 26, 2017 9:18 AM
> *To:* Julian Kift
> *Cc:* List DeTomaso Forum; George B; The DeTomaso Registry Guy
> *Subject:* Re: [DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera ?
>
> When I bought the Quaife, RBT wasn't yet a viable option, and I bought it
> for the GT40....which is currently disassembled.  We are playing with the
> idea if setting it up to run in the Pantera because the ratios are a bit
> different, and the original is 45 years old.
>
> Any idea what would be different....we have a Ford 347 small block
> endurance race motor in the GT40.  I would think it would be an easy
> project???
>
> On Aug 26, 2017 8:07 AM, "Julian Kift" <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Quaife transaxle filled a void at a time when the GT40 replica market
>> was booming and ZF's were hard to come by or an 18 month waiting list from
>> RBT. I don't see it as a better alternative to a ZF which are readily
>> available again and Quaife cost crept up from first envisaged to
>> be comparable to a new RBT ZF.
>>
>>
>> Despite the verbiage on the Quaife site stating "We have manufactured
>> and built over 100 of these high performance transmissions for GT40 and
>> pantera owners...." there has never been a Pantera orientation
>> Quaife transaxle produced.
>>
>>
>> Julian
>> ------------------------------
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
   Julian....thanks.A  Your comments make sense.A  It is my goal,
   ultimately, for two drivetrains.A  The original motor and trans in true
   compliance with the 12/72 FIA specs, which would be run spoaringly at
   snooty Gold A A medallion A u events,, and then a racier motor, exhaust
   etc that would be the mule for 80% of the events.
   A hewland would be pretty sweet...
   Regards,
   Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
   Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
   Direct: 312-320-5888
   Scottsdale Office | P: 480.535.6656A  |A  F: 480.535.6628A  |A  A: 7689
   E. Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
   Chicago Office | P: 312.752.4357A  |A  F: 312.896.5633A  |A  A: 55 E.
   Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603

   On Aug 26, 2017 11:28 AM, "Julian Kift" <[1]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   wrote:

   I believe the reason that Quaife has not offered a Pantera variant is
   because it's not a simple flipA for theA crown wheel & pinion with the
   inversion to run upside down.A I suspect if it was "easy' they would
   have done it by now and yet all the folks that I know who inquired were
   told there were no plans to offer a Pantera variant. That said you
   could try and run it in the GT40 orientation with the inputA shaft over
   the output shafts, it would sit higher or provide opportunity to lower
   center of gravity by dropping the engine, that isA assuming you can do
   that without modifying the frame rails or losing the oil pan on the
   asphalt!

   There are also a numberA of failures reported on Quaife transaxles on
   GT40s.com when used hard under racing conditions, although that might
   have been solved with later production. Even so, IA personally think
   the realA ZF is a better option than aA ZFQ and ifA it were me I'd have
   theA existing ZFA inspected and rebuilt with appropriate ratios for the
   tracks run. Of course you never get the flexibility a true racing box
   likeA a Hewland would offer in switching ratios out to specific tracks,
   the compromiseA option might be to have 2 ZF's oneA with ratios for
   long and the otherA short tracks. My ZF was in and out so often at one
   point I could do the switch on my own in underA 2 hours.

   Given prior discussion on homologation and meeting 1973 specsA etc. I
   expect you would face some backlash from the sanctioing body on
   usingA a modern transaxle. That said I think the later ADA Pantera Si
   ran in the 80's with aA Hewland, so maybe that is an alternative?
   Julian
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: Steve Lisa <[2]stevelisa at patentit.com>
   Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 9:18 AM
   To: Julian Kift
   Cc: List DeTomaso Forum; George B; The DeTomaso Registry Guy
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera ?
   A
   When I bought the Quaife, RBT wasn't yet a viable option, and I bought
   it for the GT40....which is currently disassembled.A  We are playing
   with the idea if setting it up to run in the Pantera because the ratios
   are a bit different, and the original is 45 years old.
   Any idea what would be different....we have a Ford 347 small block
   endurance race motor in the GT40.A  I would think it would be an easy
   project???
   On Aug 26, 2017 8:07 AM, "Julian Kift" <[3]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   wrote:

   The Quaife transaxle filled a void at aA time when the GT40 replica
   market was booming andA ZF's were hard to come by or an 18 month
   waiting list from RBT. I don't see it as a betterA alternative to a ZF
   which are readily available againA and QuaifeA cost crept up from first
   envisaged to beA comparable toA a new RBT ZF.

   Despite the verbiage on the Quaife site stating "We have manufactured
   and built over 100 of these high performance transmissions for GT40 and
   pantera owners...." there has never been a Pantera orientation
   QuaifeA transaxle produced.

   Julian
     __________________________________________________________________

References

   1. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   2. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
   3. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com


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