[DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera ?
Steve Lisa
stevelisa at patentit.com
Fri Aug 25 19:27:35 EDT 2017
George,
I forgot to mention that even the Fortin has a weak reverse. I have broken
the Fortin 5 speed only once -- and it was because I was stuck in silt and
needed reverse to get out. I blew out reverse, and the bits found their
way every else, eventually taking out another gear, and then another, and
then another. But it was all due to me working reverse too hard. I doubt
you would have the problem in a street car.
But, as Les says, a dog tooth box will be noisy in a street Pantera,, but
at least the noise is out back and not between the two seats. I also find
the dog tooth box not all that easy to shift unless you match RPM - which
becomes a bit of a pain after a while for a street car. Great for racing,
not so much for the street. So, for these reasons (noise and more relaxed
street driving), I went with the Quaiffe for my GT40.
Regards,
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: 312-320-5888
<http://www.patentit.com>
*Scottsdale Office* | *P*: 480.535.6656 | *F:* 480.535.6628 | *A:* 7689
East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
*Chicago Office *|* P:* 312.752.4357 | *F:* 312.896.5633 | *A:* 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
www.PatentIt.com
This email is intended only for the recipient above, and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error, please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank you.
On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 10:59 AM, George B <gkb1968 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Thanks for your detailed reply! That's great insite. I will call Fortin.
>
> Best regards,
> George
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
> Date: 8/25/17 12:50 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: George B <gkb1968 at hotmail.com>
> Cc: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>, List DeTomaso
> Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera ?
>
> George,
>
> I don't have much street experience with sequential gearboxes. Our
> desert transaxles are rebuilt every 2-3 races or 1000 miles, unless they
> break. So, even thought the fluids look good and we have no apparent
> issues, they go back that often. But keep in mind that during that period
> they will be shifted 40,000 times - our hand almost never leaves the
> shifter in the desert. In addition, the shock loads are incredible from
> jumps. boulders, suspension travel, etc.
>
> I have driven quite a few sequential gearboxes in road race cars,
> including in 24 hour races. Even full on road racing is nowhere near as
> abusive as the desert. For the endurance races, they asked the drivers to
> use the clutch on both upshifts and downshifts. I am not sure what the
> maintenance period is, but our dog tooth gearboxes were apart so often and
> we had so many gear set changes depending on the track - they were actually
> inspected 2-3 times a race weekend as part of practice, qualifying etc.
> So, the maintenance was in effect constant. Individual gearsets were
> constantly being replaced as needed.
>
> I would talk to Fortin, as I have never had one in my street car. But it
> is my guess that if one of their boxes was in a street Pantera, driven as
> you suggest (including a few track days), you should treat it no
> differently than any other exotic sequential no lift gear box. I would
> likely inspect it more than "required". But, I don't see why there would
> be any need to send it back more than every 3-4 years or 10,000 miles,
> unless you see or feel something wrong. So, every few months or few
> thousand miles drain it, look for scary bits, change the fluid, and pay
> attention. These gearboxes are now more expensive then some of our race
> motors, and we treat them that way. Like I said - customer service from
> Fortin is great - give them a call.
>
> Regards,
>
> Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
> Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
> Direct: 312-320-5888 <(312)%20320-5888>
>
> <http://www.patentit.com>
>
> *Scottsdale Office* | *P*: 480.535.6656 <(480)%20535-6656> | *F:*
> 480.535.6628 <(480)%20535-6628> | *A:* 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite
> 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
>
> *Chicago Office *|* P:* 312.752.4357 <(312)%20752-4357> | *F:*
> 312.896.5633 <(312)%20896-5633> | *A:* 55 E. Monroe Street, Suite 3800,
> Chicago, IL 60603
> www.PatentIt.com
>
> This email is intended only for the recipient above, and may contain
> confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
> error, please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank you.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 9:21 AM, George B <gkb1968 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> I have been thinking a lot about putting a sequential gearbox in my
>> Pantera. Have been on track with one a few times and it was really nice.
>> Fully manual sequential is far more enjoyable than floppy paddles.
>>
>> What is your guess on maintenance intervals if I were to use the clutch
>> for all up and down shift when driving in town and only using it as
>> intended for short bursts and 2 track days a year (always with a lift on up
>> shifts)?
>>
>> I need to find some mechanical drawings for the Fortinto see if it will
>> fit without cutting the body. I can cut up the bolt in cross member, but
>> not cool with cutting inner fenders or rear bodywork.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> George
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Steve Lisa <stevelisa at patentit.com>
>> Date: 8/24/17 8:50 PM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
>> Cc: List DeTomaso Forum <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera ?
>>
>> We raced the Fortin 5 speed in our Class 10 desert car. It is a fantastic
>> gearbox. It can withstand the rigors desert racing. We have a Fortin 4
>> speed with torque converter in our unlimited (700 HP) desert car, and it
>> too is fantastic.
>>
>> We just sold our 5 speed for $15,000 (fresh rebuild), and upgraded to a
>> Fortin 6 speed no-lift sequentialsequential in our Class 10 car.
>>
>> Fortin's service is fantastic. They are great to deal with. However, we
>> care for the gearboxes like we do everything that is raced (and subject to
>> racing abuse). The gearboxes come are sent to Fortin at least once, and
>> sometimes twice, a year for "rebuilds" and maintenance. The bill on the
>> annual rebuilds are about $2000-$5000, depending on what we have damaged.
>> I suspect street use would require much less.
>>
>> For what its worth, I ordered three years ago the Quaife ZF for my GT40.
>> The price delivered, after a 5 month wait was about $15,000 (and it has
>> limited gearsets). See
>> http://quaife.co.uk/quaife-zf-tranxaxle-back-popular-demand/
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
>> Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
>> Direct: 312-320-5888 <(312)%20320-5888>
>>
>> <http://www.patentit.com>
>>
>> *Scottsdale Office* | *P*: 480.535.6656 <(480)%20535-6656> | *F:*
>> 480.535.6628 <(480)%20535-6628> | *A:* 7689
>> East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
>>
>> *Chicago Office *|* P:* 312.752.4357 <(312)%20752-4357> | *F:*
>> 312.896.5633 <(312)%20896-5633> | *A:* 55 E.
>>
>> Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
>> www.PatentIt.com
>>
>> This email is intended only for the recipient above, and may contain
>> confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
>> error, please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
>> you.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 5:30 PM, The DeTomaso Registry Guy <
>> detomasoregistry at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [1]www.provamo.com/Members/Registry/RegistryImages/Unknown13
>> 07/Unknown1
>> > 307.asp
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The tranny is from [2]www.fortinracing.com/product17.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > What do you know about this trans-axle ?
>> >
>> >
>> > Chuck
>> >
>> >
>> > The De Tomaso Registry Guy
>> >
>> > [3]http://www.detomasoregistry.org/Members/ProvaMoMemMain.asp
>> >
>> > References
>> >
>> > 1. http://www.provamo.com/Members/Registry/RegistryImages/
>> Unknown1307/
>> > Unknown1307.asp
>> > 2. http://www.fortinracing.com/product17.html
>> > 3. http://www.detomasoregistry.org/Members/ProvaMoMemMain.asp
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> > DeTomaso mailing list
>> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >
>> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
>> use
>> > the links above.
>> >
>> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
>> > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>> > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>> approve
>> > the archiving of list messages.
>> >
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
George,A
I forgot to mention that even the Fortin has a weak reverse.A I have
broken the Fortin 5 speed only once -- and it was because I was stuck
in silt and needed reverse to get out.A I blew out reverse, and the
bits found their way every else, eventually taking out another gear,
and then another, and then another.A But it was all due to me working
reverse too hard.A I doubt you would have the problem in a street car.
A
But, as Les says, a dog tooth box will be noisy in a street Pantera,,
but at least the noise is out back and not between the two seats.A I
also find the dog tooth box not all that easy to shift unless you match
RPM - which becomes a bit of a pain after a while for a street car.A
Great for racing, not so much for the street.A So, for these reasons
(noise and more relaxed street driving), I went with the Quaiffe for my
GT40. A
Regards,A
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: 312-320-5888
[1][SGL-Email-Logo.jpg]
Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
|A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A A: 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
[2]www.PatentIt.com
This email is intended only for the recipient above, and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error, please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 10:59 AM, George B <[3]gkb1968 at hotmail.com>
wrote:
Steve,
Thanks for your detailed reply!A That's great insite. I will call
Fortin.
Best regards,A
GeorgeA
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Steve Lisa <[4]stevelisa at patentit.com>
Date: 8/25/17 12:50 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: George B <[5]gkb1968 at hotmail.com>
Cc: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <[6]detomasoregistry at gmail.com>, List
DeTomaso Forum <[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera ?
George,A
I don't have much street experience with sequential gearboxes. A Our
desert transaxles are rebuilt every 2-3 races or 1000 miles, unless
they break. A So, even thought the fluids look good and we have no
apparent issues, they go back that often.A But keep in mind that
during that period they will be shifted 40,000 times - our hand almost
never leaves the shifter in the desert.A In addition, the shock loads
are incredible from jumps. boulders, suspension travel, etc. A
I have driven quite a few sequential gearboxes in road race cars,
including in 24 hour races.A Even full on road racing is nowhere near
as abusive as the desert.A For the endurance races, they asked the
drivers to use the clutch on both upshifts and downshifts.A I am not
sure what the maintenance period is, but our dog tooth gearboxes were
apart so often and we had so many gear set changes depending on the
track - they were actually inspected 2-3 times a race weekend as part
of practice, qualifying etc.A So, the maintenance was in effect
constant.A Individual gearsets were constantly being replaced as
needed. A
I would talk to Fortin, as I have never had one in my street car.A But
it is my guess that if one of their boxes was in a street Pantera,
driven as you suggest (including a few track days), you should treat it
no differently than any other exotic sequential no lift gear box.A I
would likely inspect it more than "required".A But, I don't see why
there would be any need to send it back more than every 3-4 years or
10,000 miles, unless you see or feel something wrong.A So, every few
months or few thousand miles drain it, look for scary bits, change the
fluid, and pay attention.A These gearboxes are now more expensive then
some of our race motors, and we treat them that way.A Like I said -
customer service from Fortin is great - give them a call.A
Regards,A
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: [8]312-320-5888
[9][SGL-Email-Logo.jpg]
Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A [10]480.535.6656A
|A A F:A [11]480.535.6628A |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2,
Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago OfficeA |A P: [12]312.752.4357A |A F: [13]312.896.5633A |A
A: 55 E. Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
[14]www.PatentIt.com
This email is intended only for the recipient above, and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error, please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 9:21 AM, George B <[15]gkb1968 at hotmail.com>
wrote:
Steve,A
I have been thinking a lot about putting a sequential gearbox in my
Pantera. Have been on track with one a few times and it was really
nice. Fully manual sequential is far more enjoyable than floppy
paddles.
What is your guess on maintenance intervals if I were to use the clutch
for all up and down shift when driving in town and only using it as
intended for short bursts and 2 track days a year (always with a lift
on up shifts)?
I need to find some mechanical drawings for the Fortinto see if it will
fit without cutting the body. I can cut up the bolt in cross member,
but not cool with cutting inner fenders or rear bodywork. A
Thanks,
GeorgeA
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Steve Lisa <[16]stevelisa at patentit.com>
Date: 8/24/17 8:50 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: The DeTomaso Registry Guy <[17]detomasoregistry at gmail.com>
Cc: List DeTomaso Forum <[18]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tran Fortin 5-speed in a Pantera ?
We raced the Fortin 5 speed in our Class 10 desert car.A It is a
fantastic
gearbox.A It can withstand the rigors desert racing.A We have a
Fortin 4
speed with torque converter in our unlimited (700 HP) desert car, and
it
too is fantastic.
We just sold our 5 speed for $15,000 (fresh rebuild), and upgraded to a
Fortin 6 speed no-lift sequentialsequential in our Class 10 car.
Fortin's service is fantastic.A They are great to deal with.A
However, we
care for the gearboxes like we do everything that is raced (and subject
to
racing abuse).A The gearboxes come are sent to Fortin at least once,
and
sometimes twice, a year for "rebuilds" and maintenance.A The bill on
the
annual rebuilds are about $2000-$5000, depending on what we have
damaged.
I suspect street use would require much less.
For what its worth, I ordered three years ago the Quaife ZF for my
GT40.
The price delivered, after a 5 month wait was about $15,000 (and it has
limited gearsets).A See
[19]http://quaife.co.uk/quaife-zf-tranxaxle-back-popular-demand/
Regards,
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: [20]312-320-5888
<[21]http://www.patentit.com>
*Scottsdale Office* | *P*: [22]480.535.6656A |A *F:*
[23]480.535.6628A |A *A:* 7689
East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
*Chicago Office *|* P:* [24]312.752.4357A |A *F:* [25]312.896.5633A
|A *A:* 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
[26]www.PatentIt.com
This email is intended only for the recipient above, and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error, please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 5:30 PM, The DeTomaso Registry Guy <
[27]detomasoregistry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>A A A [1][28]www.provamo.com/Members/Reg
istry/RegistryImages/Unknown1307/Unknown1
>A A A 307.asp
>
>
>
>A A A The tranny is from [2][29]www.fortinracing.com/product17.html
>
>
>
>A A A What do you know about this trans-axle ?
>
>
>A A A Chuck
>
>
>A A A The De Tomaso Registry Guy
>
>A A A [3][30]http://www.detomasoregistry.org/Members/ProvaMoMemMain.
asp
>
> References
>
>A A A 1. [31]http://www.provamo.com/Members/Registry/RegistryImages/
Unknown1307/
> Unknown1307.asp
>A A A 2. [32]http://www.fortinracing.com/product17.html
>A A A 3. [33]http://www.detomasoregistry.or
g/Members/ProvaMoMemMain.asp
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [34]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use
> the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list.
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
References
1. http://www.patentit.com/
2. http://www.PatentIt.com/
3. mailto:gkb1968 at hotmail.com
4. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
5. mailto:gkb1968 at hotmail.com
6. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. tel:(312)%20320-5888
9. http://www.patentit.com/
10. tel:(480)%20535-6656
11. tel:(480)%20535-6628
12. tel:(312)%20752-4357
13. tel:(312)%20896-5633
14. http://www.PatentIt.com/
15. mailto:gkb1968 at hotmail.com
16. mailto:stevelisa at patentit.com
17. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
18. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
19. http://quaife.co.uk/quaife-zf-tranxaxle-back-popular-demand/
20. tel:(312)%20320-5888
21. http://www.patentit.com/
22. tel:(480)%20535-6656
23. tel:(480)%20535-6628
24. tel:(312)%20752-4357
25. tel:(312)%20896-5633
26. http://www.PatentIt.com/
27. mailto:detomasoregistry at gmail.com
28. http://www.provamo.com/Members/Registry/RegistryImages/Unknown1307/Unknown1
29. http://www.fortinracing.com/product17.html
30. http://www.detomasoregistry.org/Members/ProvaMoMemMain.asp
31. http://www.provamo.com/Members/Registry/RegistryImages/Unknown1307/
32. http://www.fortinracing.com/product17.html
33. http://www.detomasoregistry.org/Members/ProvaMoMemMain.asp
34. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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