[DeTomaso] Chassis

John McKee johnmckee at cox.net
Sat Aug 19 01:50:54 EDT 2017 

I am not certain what the design intent of the stock rubber bushing was but
I think the poly bushings are intended to act like a thrust bearing if I
understand that term correctly. The suspension mounting tabs pinch down on
the radial end surface of the bushing something like an old time friction
shock. Yes the bushing could spin on the shaft but the main movement or path
of least resistance should be at the ends.
I had Dick Drenske make me a set of bushings out of Delrin and he told me to
coat the ends with anti-seize as that was the surface you want to have
moving.  Much like the shocks, you do not want to over tighten the tabs so
he had me use new nylock nuts and tighten to 20 ft.lbs. I also polished the
mounting tab surfaces smooth and gave them a light coat of sacrificial paint
to keep the rust off before adding a liberal amount of anti-seize.
I have yet to complete my car and put any miles on them but I know he had
made Delrin bushings for his convertible Longchamp (beautiful car) and he
also put a set on the front end of Dawg's Phoenix.

John


-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 7:15 AM
To: Larry Weston <lplugw at hotmail.com>
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis

Larry,

With poly bushings, you don't really get much choice. You might wish for
them to remain stationary in the mounts and rotate inside the A-arms, or
remain stationary in both the mounts and the A-arms and rotate around the
bolts, but they are going to do whatever they want to do, and all you can
hope for is to control the effects through lubrication. 

Yet another reason why I vastly prefer stock bushings....

Mike

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 18, 2017, at 03:30, Larry Weston <lplugw at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Please advise then, with the poly bushings, is the bushing to rotate on
the chassis mount bolt sleeve and be stationary in the A arm or is the
bushing to be held stationary in the chassis with the A arm rotating on the
bushing? Mikes comment below seems to first indicate the former, but then
suggests it's a combination of both?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 18, 2017, at 1:49 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>> 
>> One more thought:
>> 
>> The poly bushings squeak on the ENDS where they rub against the mounting
brackets. People also routinely overtighten the mounting bolts which
probably aggravates the situation. 
>> 
>> People will go to great extremes to lube the OD surface of the bushing
where it interfaces with the A-arm, and the inner surface where it touches
the steel sleeve, but fail to consider the ends, which can rotate against
the chassis mounts. 
>> 
>> All surfaces need to be addressed. (This with poly bushings only). 
>> 
>> With stock bushings, it's important to not tighten the mounting bolts
with the suspension hanging unloaded. You can start them finger tight that
way, but jack each corner with a floor jack to load the suspension before
applying final torque. 
>> 
>> The bolts have Nylock nuts so aren't relying on torque to maintain their
hold. Read the shop manual and follow the torque specifications therein. The
value might be lower than you would expect.....
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Aug 17, 2017, at 21:42, Matt <nwpantera at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> With all due respect Dave it still sounds like you are not 100% 
>>> positive where the squeaks are coming from.
>>> You checked the sway bar bushings. They are rubber. Survey says 
>>> rubber don't squeak.
>>> So that leaves the suspension bushings. Are they rubber or poly? You 
>>> haven't said which they are that I've read.
>>> I would think suspension bushings not sway bars would have more 
>>> tendency to squeak given your symptoms.
>>> I would verify that for sure before making my next move.
>>> If they are in fact poly then that's the problem and you've got 
>>> plenty of help in that department ;-) Personally I prefer the 
>>> original rubber bushings. I think the stated potential issues 
>>> associated with poly just don't seem to be worth the handling gains.
>>> That's because I don't race my car enough to justify it. Some do and 
>>> that's usually is a popular upgrade.
>>> I like a car with a forgiving ride and a little wiggle in it! Hence 
>>> rubber.
>>> Matt
>>> 3584
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 6:03 PM, [1]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com 
>>> <[2]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>   A  A Sorry but now I am confused. I checked both the front and rear
>>>   sway
>>>   A  A bars and unless poly fittings are black I have rubber bushings.
>>>   I
>>>   A  A assume they are the originals. Something is squeaking so what
>>>   is the
>>>   A  A best course of action? Add zerks or replace?
>>>   A  A Dave
>>>   A  A Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone
>>>   A  A ------ Original message------
>>>   A  A From: Jack Donahue
>>>   A  A Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 4:42 PM
>>>   A  A To: Julian Kift;
>>>   A  A Cc: [1][3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com;
>>>   A  A Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis
>>>   I HIGHLY suggest the rubber vs poly...If you drive your car d- on
>>>   the street lik
>>>   e most everyone else, you'll never appreciate the difference - and
>>>   it just ain't
>>>   A worth the effort every time she squeaks. It's embarrassing.
>>>   Just sayin'
>>>   Jack
>>>   #4348
>>>> On Aug 15, 2017, at 4:10 PM, Julian KiftA  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> A  A OEM rubber bushings don't squeak, but aftermarket poly
>>>   bushings do,
>>>> A  A they require an annual greasing, so not necessarily 'bad',
>>>   just feeling
>>>> A  A unloved...
>>>> 
>>>> A  A Julian
>>>> A  A  A ______________________________
>>>   ____________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> A  A From: DeTomasoA  on behalf of
>>>> A  [2] [4]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com A  A Sent: Tuesday, August 
>>>> 15, 2017 4:06 PM A  A To:[3] [5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>> A  A Subject: [DeTomaso] Chassis
>>>> 
>>>> A  A Hit a bump, step on the brake, turn the corner, the chassis
>>>   squeaks and
>>>> A  A groans. Is this bad bushings?
>>>> A  A ThanksSent from my Verizon LG Smartphone 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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