[DeTomaso] Chassis

Jack Donahue demongusta at gmail.com
Fri Aug 18 15:39:25 EDT 2017


Thanks for reminding me of something - I had mentioned that my housings were drilled by Pantera International and the zerks were "buried" into the bushing - they had MISSED that center groove between the bushing halves. Bummer. They hit the center on a couple of them, but otherwise they blew it. It's real hard to pump grease INTO the bushing - they must have just drilled "through" the housing and about an eighth inch into the bushing - and then screwed in the zerk and HOPED the grease would find its way. I think of it whenever I'm under the car and see the OFFSET holes. I get mad just thinking about it. 
Aug 18, 2017, at 9:34 AM, Stephen Nelson <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:

> Good morning Jack.  Given the fact the bolts holding the hex-sleeves are
> torqued appropriately, and that the A-arm sleeve is polished, seems pretty
> likely the rotation will be where we want it.  As for getting grease out to
> the end-tabs - I just drilled through the sleeve, toward the center so the
> zerk discharged into the area where the two halves of the bushing come
> together - which gives a path for the grease to go around the bushing.  A
> couple of squirts with a grease gun loaded with a Teflon-loaded grease and
> the grease comes out between the bushings and the washers that are to either
> side of the bushings.  I suspect if one was concerned about getting fresh
> grease into the entire contact area between the washers and the bushings one
> could  pump in more grease.  But, I also suspect that the grease will work
> its way around as the arms flex up and down.
> 
> Now I need to go replace the rubber bushings in the front of my XKE - put in
> rubber ones years ago and now wishing I had gone with urethane.
> 
> Stephen
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Donahue [mailto:demongusta at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:41 AM
> To: Stephen Nelson <steve at snclocks.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis
> 
> Steve:
> Two things:
> 1) - yes, the hex shaped sleeve pretty much guarantees no rotation of the
> sleeve inside the bushing - so it seems. And as I recall, I had the
> hex-shaped sleeves also. Which leads me to;
> 2) when you drilled the housing and inserted the zerks, did you make it so
> the grease exiting the zerk is deposited on the surface of the bushing - the
> interface between bushing and housing? And, if so, and the bushing gets nice
> and slippery (and quiet), how does the grease reach the end tabs?
> 
>> On Aug 18, 2017, at 8:27 AM, Stephen Nelson <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Huh.  As I recall, the poly bushings I bought from Pantera Performance 
>> had a hex-shaped inner-steel sleeve that clamped between the retaining
> washers.
>> No question, the bushing rotated inside the A-arm sleeves - which I 
>> polished on my lathe to get rid of any burs after I drilled for grease 
>> zerks.  In fact, I wrote an article on my technique for cleaning up 
>> the inside of the A-arm sleeves - which is someplace on the POCA site 
>> I suppose - couldn't spot a search function on POCA so am not sure 
>> where it is.  And, well, it runs to 4 MB which, as I recall, this 
>> forum won't support - so, if anyone wants a copy, in Word, send me an
> e-mail off-list.
>> 
>> Stephen Nelson
>> steve at snclocks.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
>> Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 7:15 AM
>> To: Larry Weston <lplugw at hotmail.com>
>> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis
>> 
>> Larry,
>> 
>> With poly bushings, you don't really get much choice. You might wish 
>> for them to remain stationary in the mounts and rotate inside the 
>> A-arms, or remain stationary in both the mounts and the A-arms and 
>> rotate around the bolts, but they are going to do whatever they want 
>> to do, and all you can hope for is to control the effects through
> lubrication.
>> 
>> Yet another reason why I vastly prefer stock bushings....
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Aug 18, 2017, at 03:30, Larry Weston <lplugw at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Please advise then, with the poly bushings, is the bushing to rotate 
>>> on
>> the chassis mount bolt sleeve and be stationary in the A arm or is the 
>> bushing to be held stationary in the chassis with the A arm rotating 
>> on the bushing? Mikes comment below seems to first indicate the 
>> former, but then suggests it's a combination of both?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 18, 2017, at 1:49 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
>> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> One more thought:
>>>> 
>>>> The poly bushings squeak on the ENDS where they rub against the 
>>>> mounting
>> brackets. People also routinely overtighten the mounting bolts which 
>> probably aggravates the situation.
>>>> 
>>>> People will go to great extremes to lube the OD surface of the 
>>>> bushing
>> where it interfaces with the A-arm, and the inner surface where it 
>> touches the steel sleeve, but fail to consider the ends, which can 
>> rotate against the chassis mounts.
>>>> 
>>>> All surfaces need to be addressed. (This with poly bushings only). 
>>>> 
>>>> With stock bushings, it's important to not tighten the mounting 
>>>> bolts
>> with the suspension hanging unloaded. You can start them finger tight 
>> that way, but jack each corner with a floor jack to load the 
>> suspension before applying final torque.
>>>> 
>>>> The bolts have Nylock nuts so aren't relying on torque to maintain 
>>>> their
>> hold. Read the shop manual and follow the torque specifications 
>> therein. The value might be lower than you would expect.....
>>>> 
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 17, 2017, at 21:42, Matt <nwpantera at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> With all due respect Dave it still sounds like you are not 100% 
>>>>> positive where the squeaks are coming from.
>>>>> You checked the sway bar bushings. They are rubber. Survey says 
>>>>> rubber don't squeak.
>>>>> So that leaves the suspension bushings. Are they rubber or poly? 
>>>>> You haven't said which they are that I've read.
>>>>> I would think suspension bushings not sway bars would have more 
>>>>> tendency to squeak given your symptoms.
>>>>> I would verify that for sure before making my next move.
>>>>> If they are in fact poly then that's the problem and you've got 
>>>>> plenty of help in that department ;-) Personally I prefer the 
>>>>> original rubber bushings. I think the stated potential issues 
>>>>> associated with poly just don't seem to be worth the handling gains.
>>>>> That's because I don't race my car enough to justify it. Some do 
>>>>> and that's usually is a popular upgrade.
>>>>> I like a car with a forgiving ride and a little wiggle in it! Hence 
>>>>> rubber.
>>>>> Matt
>>>>> 3584
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 6:03 PM, [1]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com 
>>>>> <[2]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> A  A Sorry but now I am confused. I checked both the front and 
>>>>> rear  sway  A  A bars and unless poly fittings are black I have 
>>>>> rubber bushings.
>>>>> I
>>>>> A  A assume they are the originals. Something is squeaking so what  
>>>>> is the  A  A best course of action? Add zerks or replace?
>>>>> A  A Dave
>>>>> A  A Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone  A  A ------ Original 
>>>>> message------  A  A From: Jack Donahue  A  A Date: Wed, Aug 16, 
>>>>> 2017 4:42 PM  A  A To: Julian Kift;  A  A Cc: 
>>>>> [1][3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com;
>>>>> A  A Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis  I HIGHLY suggest the rubber 
>>>>> vs poly...If you drive your car d- on  the street lik  e most 
>>>>> everyone else, you'll never appreciate the difference - and  it 
>>>>> just ain't  A worth the effort every time she squeaks. It's 
>>>>> embarrassing.
>>>>> Just sayin'
>>>>> Jack
>>>>> #4348
>>>>>> On Aug 15, 2017, at 4:10 PM, Julian KiftA  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> A  A OEM rubber bushings don't squeak, but aftermarket poly
>>>>> bushings do,
>>>>>> A  A they require an annual greasing, so not necessarily 'bad',
>>>>> just feeling
>>>>>> A  A unloved...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> A  A Julian
>>>>>> A  A  A ______________________________
>>>>> ____________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> A  A From: DeTomasoA  on behalf of A  [2] 
>>>>>> [4]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com A  A Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 
>>>>>> 2017 4:06 PM A  A To:[3] [5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>> A  A Subject: [DeTomaso] Chassis
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> A  A Hit a bump, step on the brake, turn the corner, the chassis
>>>>> squeaks and
>>>>>> A  A groans. Is this bad bushings?
>>>>>> A  A ThanksSent from my Verizon LG Smartphone 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not 
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>>>>> t the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the  
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>>>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  Posted emails must not 
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>>>>> References
>>>>> A  A 1. mailto:[10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> A  A 2. mailto:%[11]20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
>>>>> A  A 3. mailto:%[12]20detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> A  A 4. mailto:%[13]20DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> A  A 5. 
>>>>> [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> A  A 6. mailto:
>>>>> [15]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> A  A 7. 
>>>>> [16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA  Posted emails must not 
>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes  DeTomaso mailing list  
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>>>>> References
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
>>>>> 2. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
>>>>> 3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 4. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
>>>>> 5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> 8. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 9. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> 10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 11. mailto:20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
>>>>> 12. mailto:20detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 13. mailto:20DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> 15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> 17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not 
>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list 
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>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> 
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, 
>>>>> etc.)
>> use the links above.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward 
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>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or 
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>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not 
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>> 
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>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not 
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> 
-------------- next part --------------
   Thanks for reminding me of something - I had mentioned that my housings
   were drilled by Pantera International and the zerks were "buried" into
   the bushing - they had MISSED that center groove between the bushing
   halves. Bummer. They hit the center on a couple of them, but otherwise
   they blew it. It's real hard to pump grease INTO the bushing - they
   must have just drilled "through" the housing and about an eighth inch
   into the bushing - and then screwed in the zerk and HOPED the grease
   would find its way. I think of it whenever I'm under the car and see
   the OFFSET holes. I get mad just thinking about it.
   Aug 18, 2017, at 9:34 AM, Stephen Nelson <[1]steve at snclocks.com> wrote:

   Good morning Jack.  Given the fact the bolts holding the hex-sleeves
   are
   torqued appropriately, and that the A-arm sleeve is polished, seems
   pretty
   likely the rotation will be where we want it.  As for getting grease
   out to
   the end-tabs - I just drilled through the sleeve, toward the center so
   the
   zerk discharged into the area where the two halves of the bushing come
   together - which gives a path for the grease to go around the bushing.
    A
   couple of squirts with a grease gun loaded with a Teflon-loaded grease
   and
   the grease comes out between the bushings and the washers that are to
   either
   side of the bushings.  I suspect if one was concerned about getting
   fresh
   grease into the entire contact area between the washers and the
   bushings one
   could  pump in more grease.  But, I also suspect that the grease will
   work
   its way around as the arms flex up and down.
   Now I need to go replace the rubber bushings in the front of my XKE -
   put in
   rubber ones years ago and now wishing I had gone with urethane.
   Stephen
   -----Original Message-----
   From: Jack Donahue [[2]mailto:demongusta at gmail.com]
   Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:41 AM
   To: Stephen Nelson <[3]steve at snclocks.com>
   Cc: [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis
   Steve:
   Two things:
   1) - yes, the hex shaped sleeve pretty much guarantees no rotation of
   the
   sleeve inside the bushing - so it seems. And as I recall, I had the
   hex-shaped sleeves also. Which leads me to;
   2) when you drilled the housing and inserted the zerks, did you make it
   so
   the grease exiting the zerk is deposited on the surface of the bushing
   - the
   interface between bushing and housing? And, if so, and the bushing gets
   nice
   and slippery (and quiet), how does the grease reach the end tabs?

     On Aug 18, 2017, at 8:27 AM, Stephen Nelson <[5]steve at snclocks.com>
     wrote:

     Huh.  As I recall, the poly bushings I bought from Pantera
     Performance

     had a hex-shaped inner-steel sleeve that clamped between the
     retaining

   washers.

     No question, the bushing rotated inside the A-arm sleeves - which I

     polished on my lathe to get rid of any burs after I drilled for
     grease

     zerks.  In fact, I wrote an article on my technique for cleaning up

     the inside of the A-arm sleeves - which is someplace on the POCA
     site

     I suppose - couldn't spot a search function on POCA so am not sure

     where it is.  And, well, it runs to 4 MB which, as I recall, this

     forum won't support - so, if anyone wants a copy, in Word, send me
     an

   e-mail off-list.

     Stephen Nelson

     [6]steve at snclocks.com

     -----Original Message-----

     From: DeTomaso [[7]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
     On

     Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso

     Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 7:15 AM

     To: Larry Weston <[8]lplugw at hotmail.com>

     Cc: [9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis

     Larry,

     With poly bushings, you don't really get much choice. You might wish

     for them to remain stationary in the mounts and rotate inside the

     A-arms, or remain stationary in both the mounts and the A-arms and

     rotate around the bolts, but they are going to do whatever they want

     to do, and all you can hope for is to control the effects through

   lubrication.

     Yet another reason why I vastly prefer stock bushings....

     Mike

     Sent from my iPad

     On Aug 18, 2017, at 03:30, Larry Weston <[10]lplugw at hotmail.com>
     wrote:

     Please advise then, with the poly bushings, is the bushing to rotate

     on

     the chassis mount bolt sleeve and be stationary in the A arm or is
     the

     bushing to be held stationary in the chassis with the A arm rotating

     on the bushing? Mikes comment below seems to first indicate the

     former, but then suggests it's a combination of both?

     Sent from my iPhone

     On Aug 18, 2017, at 1:49 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso

     <[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:

     One more thought:

     The poly bushings squeak on the ENDS where they rub against the

     mounting

     brackets. People also routinely overtighten the mounting bolts which

     probably aggravates the situation.

     People will go to great extremes to lube the OD surface of the

     bushing

     where it interfaces with the A-arm, and the inner surface where it

     touches the steel sleeve, but fail to consider the ends, which can

     rotate against the chassis mounts.

     All surfaces need to be addressed. (This with poly bushings only).

     With stock bushings, it's important to not tighten the mounting

     bolts

     with the suspension hanging unloaded. You can start them finger
     tight

     that way, but jack each corner with a floor jack to load the

     suspension before applying final torque.

     The bolts have Nylock nuts so aren't relying on torque to maintain

     their

     hold. Read the shop manual and follow the torque specifications

     therein. The value might be lower than you would expect.....

     Mike

     Sent from my iPad

     On Aug 17, 2017, at 21:42, Matt <[12]nwpantera at gmail.com> wrote:

     With all due respect Dave it still sounds like you are not 100%

     positive where the squeaks are coming from.

     You checked the sway bar bushings. They are rubber. Survey says

     rubber don't squeak.

     So that leaves the suspension bushings. Are they rubber or poly?

     You haven't said which they are that I've read.

     I would think suspension bushings not sway bars would have more

     tendency to squeak given your symptoms.

     I would verify that for sure before making my next move.

     If they are in fact poly then that's the problem and you've got

     plenty of help in that department ;-) Personally I prefer the

     original rubber bushings. I think the stated potential issues

     associated with poly just don't seem to be worth the handling gains.

     That's because I don't race my car enough to justify it. Some do

     and that's usually is a popular upgrade.

     I like a car with a forgiving ride and a little wiggle in it! Hence

     rubber.

     Matt

     3584

     On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 6:03 PM, [1][13]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com

     <[2][14]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com> wrote:

     A  A Sorry but now I am confused. I checked both the front and

     rear  sway  A  A bars and unless poly fittings are black I have

     rubber bushings.

     I

     A  A assume they are the originals. Something is squeaking so what

     is the  A  A best course of action? Add zerks or replace?

     A  A Dave

     A  A Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone  A  A ------ Original

     message------  A  A From: Jack Donahue  A  A Date: Wed, Aug 16,

     2017 4:42 PM  A  A To: Julian Kift;  A  A Cc:

     [1][3][15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com;

     A  A Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis  I HIGHLY suggest the rubber

     vs poly...If you drive your car d- on  the street lik  e most

     everyone else, you'll never appreciate the difference - and  it

     just ain't  A worth the effort every time she squeaks. It's

     embarrassing.

     Just sayin'

     Jack

     #4348

     On Aug 15, 2017, at 4:10 PM, Julian KiftA  wrote:

     A  A OEM rubber bushings don't squeak, but aftermarket poly

     bushings do,

     A  A they require an annual greasing, so not necessarily 'bad',

     just feeling

     A  A unloved...

     A  A Julian

     A  A  A ______________________________

     ____________________________________

     A  A From: DeTomasoA  on behalf of A  [2]

     [4][16]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com A  A Sent: Tuesday, August 15,

     2017 4:06 PM A  A To:[3] [5][17]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     A  A Subject: [DeTomaso] Chassis

     A  A Hit a bump, step on the brake, turn the corner, the chassis

     squeaks and

     A  A groans. Is this bad bushings?

     A  A ThanksSent from my Verizon LG Smartphone

     _______________________________________________

     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not

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     A posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.

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     t the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the

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     A  A 1. mailto:[10][22]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     A  A 2. mailto:%[11][23]20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com

     A  A 3. mailto:%[12][24]20detomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     A  A 4. mailto:%[13][25]20DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     A  A 5.

     [14][26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

     A  A 6. mailto:

     [15][27]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     A  A 7.

     [16][28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

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     References

     1. [31]mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com

     2. [32]mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com

     3. [33]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     4. [34]mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com

     5. [35]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     6. [36]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     7. [37]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

     8. [38]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     9. [39]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

     10. [40]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     11. [41]mailto:20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com

     12. [42]mailto:20detomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     13. [43]mailto:20DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     14. [44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

     15. [45]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     16. [46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

     17. [47]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     18. [48]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

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     [53]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com

     [54]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

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References

   1. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
   2. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
   3. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
   4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   5. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
   6. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
   7. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   8. mailto:lplugw at hotmail.com
   9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. mailto:lplugw at hotmail.com
  11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  12. mailto:nwpantera at gmail.com
  13. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
  14. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
  15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  16. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
  17. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  22. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  23. mailto:20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
  24. mailto:20detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  25. mailto:20DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  27. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  29. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  30. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  31. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
  32. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
  33. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  34. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
  35. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  36. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  37. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  38. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  39. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  40. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  41. mailto:20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
  42. mailto:20detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  43. mailto:20DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  45. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  46. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  47. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  48. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  49. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  50. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  51. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  52. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  53. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  54. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  55. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  56. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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