[DeTomaso] Chassis
Jack Donahue
demongusta at gmail.com
Fri Aug 18 15:39:25 EDT 2017
Thanks for reminding me of something - I had mentioned that my housings were drilled by Pantera International and the zerks were "buried" into the bushing - they had MISSED that center groove between the bushing halves. Bummer. They hit the center on a couple of them, but otherwise they blew it. It's real hard to pump grease INTO the bushing - they must have just drilled "through" the housing and about an eighth inch into the bushing - and then screwed in the zerk and HOPED the grease would find its way. I think of it whenever I'm under the car and see the OFFSET holes. I get mad just thinking about it.
Aug 18, 2017, at 9:34 AM, Stephen Nelson <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
> Good morning Jack. Given the fact the bolts holding the hex-sleeves are
> torqued appropriately, and that the A-arm sleeve is polished, seems pretty
> likely the rotation will be where we want it. As for getting grease out to
> the end-tabs - I just drilled through the sleeve, toward the center so the
> zerk discharged into the area where the two halves of the bushing come
> together - which gives a path for the grease to go around the bushing. A
> couple of squirts with a grease gun loaded with a Teflon-loaded grease and
> the grease comes out between the bushings and the washers that are to either
> side of the bushings. I suspect if one was concerned about getting fresh
> grease into the entire contact area between the washers and the bushings one
> could pump in more grease. But, I also suspect that the grease will work
> its way around as the arms flex up and down.
>
> Now I need to go replace the rubber bushings in the front of my XKE - put in
> rubber ones years ago and now wishing I had gone with urethane.
>
> Stephen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Donahue [mailto:demongusta at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:41 AM
> To: Stephen Nelson <steve at snclocks.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis
>
> Steve:
> Two things:
> 1) - yes, the hex shaped sleeve pretty much guarantees no rotation of the
> sleeve inside the bushing - so it seems. And as I recall, I had the
> hex-shaped sleeves also. Which leads me to;
> 2) when you drilled the housing and inserted the zerks, did you make it so
> the grease exiting the zerk is deposited on the surface of the bushing - the
> interface between bushing and housing? And, if so, and the bushing gets nice
> and slippery (and quiet), how does the grease reach the end tabs?
>
>> On Aug 18, 2017, at 8:27 AM, Stephen Nelson <steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
>>
>> Huh. As I recall, the poly bushings I bought from Pantera Performance
>> had a hex-shaped inner-steel sleeve that clamped between the retaining
> washers.
>> No question, the bushing rotated inside the A-arm sleeves - which I
>> polished on my lathe to get rid of any burs after I drilled for grease
>> zerks. In fact, I wrote an article on my technique for cleaning up
>> the inside of the A-arm sleeves - which is someplace on the POCA site
>> I suppose - couldn't spot a search function on POCA so am not sure
>> where it is. And, well, it runs to 4 MB which, as I recall, this
>> forum won't support - so, if anyone wants a copy, in Word, send me an
> e-mail off-list.
>>
>> Stephen Nelson
>> steve at snclocks.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
>> Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 7:15 AM
>> To: Larry Weston <lplugw at hotmail.com>
>> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis
>>
>> Larry,
>>
>> With poly bushings, you don't really get much choice. You might wish
>> for them to remain stationary in the mounts and rotate inside the
>> A-arms, or remain stationary in both the mounts and the A-arms and
>> rotate around the bolts, but they are going to do whatever they want
>> to do, and all you can hope for is to control the effects through
> lubrication.
>>
>> Yet another reason why I vastly prefer stock bushings....
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Aug 18, 2017, at 03:30, Larry Weston <lplugw at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Please advise then, with the poly bushings, is the bushing to rotate
>>> on
>> the chassis mount bolt sleeve and be stationary in the A arm or is the
>> bushing to be held stationary in the chassis with the A arm rotating
>> on the bushing? Mikes comment below seems to first indicate the
>> former, but then suggests it's a combination of both?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Aug 18, 2017, at 1:49 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
>> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One more thought:
>>>>
>>>> The poly bushings squeak on the ENDS where they rub against the
>>>> mounting
>> brackets. People also routinely overtighten the mounting bolts which
>> probably aggravates the situation.
>>>>
>>>> People will go to great extremes to lube the OD surface of the
>>>> bushing
>> where it interfaces with the A-arm, and the inner surface where it
>> touches the steel sleeve, but fail to consider the ends, which can
>> rotate against the chassis mounts.
>>>>
>>>> All surfaces need to be addressed. (This with poly bushings only).
>>>>
>>>> With stock bushings, it's important to not tighten the mounting
>>>> bolts
>> with the suspension hanging unloaded. You can start them finger tight
>> that way, but jack each corner with a floor jack to load the
>> suspension before applying final torque.
>>>>
>>>> The bolts have Nylock nuts so aren't relying on torque to maintain
>>>> their
>> hold. Read the shop manual and follow the torque specifications
>> therein. The value might be lower than you would expect.....
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 17, 2017, at 21:42, Matt <nwpantera at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> With all due respect Dave it still sounds like you are not 100%
>>>>> positive where the squeaks are coming from.
>>>>> You checked the sway bar bushings. They are rubber. Survey says
>>>>> rubber don't squeak.
>>>>> So that leaves the suspension bushings. Are they rubber or poly?
>>>>> You haven't said which they are that I've read.
>>>>> I would think suspension bushings not sway bars would have more
>>>>> tendency to squeak given your symptoms.
>>>>> I would verify that for sure before making my next move.
>>>>> If they are in fact poly then that's the problem and you've got
>>>>> plenty of help in that department ;-) Personally I prefer the
>>>>> original rubber bushings. I think the stated potential issues
>>>>> associated with poly just don't seem to be worth the handling gains.
>>>>> That's because I don't race my car enough to justify it. Some do
>>>>> and that's usually is a popular upgrade.
>>>>> I like a car with a forgiving ride and a little wiggle in it! Hence
>>>>> rubber.
>>>>> Matt
>>>>> 3584
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 6:03 PM, [1]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
>>>>> <[2]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> A A Sorry but now I am confused. I checked both the front and
>>>>> rear sway A A bars and unless poly fittings are black I have
>>>>> rubber bushings.
>>>>> I
>>>>> A A assume they are the originals. Something is squeaking so what
>>>>> is the A A best course of action? Add zerks or replace?
>>>>> A A Dave
>>>>> A A Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone A A ------ Original
>>>>> message------ A A From: Jack Donahue A A Date: Wed, Aug 16,
>>>>> 2017 4:42 PM A A To: Julian Kift; A A Cc:
>>>>> [1][3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com;
>>>>> A A Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis I HIGHLY suggest the rubber
>>>>> vs poly...If you drive your car d- on the street lik e most
>>>>> everyone else, you'll never appreciate the difference - and it
>>>>> just ain't A worth the effort every time she squeaks. It's
>>>>> embarrassing.
>>>>> Just sayin'
>>>>> Jack
>>>>> #4348
>>>>>> On Aug 15, 2017, at 4:10 PM, Julian KiftA wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A A OEM rubber bushings don't squeak, but aftermarket poly
>>>>> bushings do,
>>>>>> A A they require an annual greasing, so not necessarily 'bad',
>>>>> just feeling
>>>>>> A A unloved...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A A Julian
>>>>>> A A A ______________________________
>>>>> ____________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A A From: DeTomasoA on behalf of A [2]
>>>>>> [4]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com A A Sent: Tuesday, August 15,
>>>>>> 2017 4:06 PM A A To:[3] [5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>>> A A Subject: [DeTomaso] Chassis
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A A Hit a bump, step on the brake, turn the corner, the chassis
>>>>> squeaks and
>>>>>> A A groans. Is this bad bushings?
>>>>>> A A ThanksSent from my Verizon LG Smartphone
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
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>>>>>>
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>>>>> A A 1. mailto:[10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> A A 2. mailto:%[11]20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
>>>>> A A 3. mailto:%[12]20detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> A A 4. mailto:%[13]20DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> A A 5.
>>>>> [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> A A 6. mailto:
>>>>> [15]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> A A 7.
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
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>>>>> [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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>>>>> References
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
>>>>> 2. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
>>>>> 3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 4. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
>>>>> 5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 6. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 7. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> 8. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 9. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> 10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 11. mailto:20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
>>>>> 12. mailto:20detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 13. mailto:20DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> 15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> 17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>>>> 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>>>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
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>>>>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>>
>>>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
>>>>> etc.)
>> use the links above.
>>>>>
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>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
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>
-------------- next part --------------
Thanks for reminding me of something - I had mentioned that my housings
were drilled by Pantera International and the zerks were "buried" into
the bushing - they had MISSED that center groove between the bushing
halves. Bummer. They hit the center on a couple of them, but otherwise
they blew it. It's real hard to pump grease INTO the bushing - they
must have just drilled "through" the housing and about an eighth inch
into the bushing - and then screwed in the zerk and HOPED the grease
would find its way. I think of it whenever I'm under the car and see
the OFFSET holes. I get mad just thinking about it.
Aug 18, 2017, at 9:34 AM, Stephen Nelson <[1]steve at snclocks.com> wrote:
Good morning Jack. Given the fact the bolts holding the hex-sleeves
are
torqued appropriately, and that the A-arm sleeve is polished, seems
pretty
likely the rotation will be where we want it. As for getting grease
out to
the end-tabs - I just drilled through the sleeve, toward the center so
the
zerk discharged into the area where the two halves of the bushing come
together - which gives a path for the grease to go around the bushing.
A
couple of squirts with a grease gun loaded with a Teflon-loaded grease
and
the grease comes out between the bushings and the washers that are to
either
side of the bushings. I suspect if one was concerned about getting
fresh
grease into the entire contact area between the washers and the
bushings one
could pump in more grease. But, I also suspect that the grease will
work
its way around as the arms flex up and down.
Now I need to go replace the rubber bushings in the front of my XKE -
put in
rubber ones years ago and now wishing I had gone with urethane.
Stephen
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Donahue [[2]mailto:demongusta at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:41 AM
To: Stephen Nelson <[3]steve at snclocks.com>
Cc: [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis
Steve:
Two things:
1) - yes, the hex shaped sleeve pretty much guarantees no rotation of
the
sleeve inside the bushing - so it seems. And as I recall, I had the
hex-shaped sleeves also. Which leads me to;
2) when you drilled the housing and inserted the zerks, did you make it
so
the grease exiting the zerk is deposited on the surface of the bushing
- the
interface between bushing and housing? And, if so, and the bushing gets
nice
and slippery (and quiet), how does the grease reach the end tabs?
On Aug 18, 2017, at 8:27 AM, Stephen Nelson <[5]steve at snclocks.com>
wrote:
Huh. As I recall, the poly bushings I bought from Pantera
Performance
had a hex-shaped inner-steel sleeve that clamped between the
retaining
washers.
No question, the bushing rotated inside the A-arm sleeves - which I
polished on my lathe to get rid of any burs after I drilled for
grease
zerks. In fact, I wrote an article on my technique for cleaning up
the inside of the A-arm sleeves - which is someplace on the POCA
site
I suppose - couldn't spot a search function on POCA so am not sure
where it is. And, well, it runs to 4 MB which, as I recall, this
forum won't support - so, if anyone wants a copy, in Word, send me
an
e-mail off-list.
Stephen Nelson
[6]steve at snclocks.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[7]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On
Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 7:15 AM
To: Larry Weston <[8]lplugw at hotmail.com>
Cc: [9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis
Larry,
With poly bushings, you don't really get much choice. You might wish
for them to remain stationary in the mounts and rotate inside the
A-arms, or remain stationary in both the mounts and the A-arms and
rotate around the bolts, but they are going to do whatever they want
to do, and all you can hope for is to control the effects through
lubrication.
Yet another reason why I vastly prefer stock bushings....
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 18, 2017, at 03:30, Larry Weston <[10]lplugw at hotmail.com>
wrote:
Please advise then, with the poly bushings, is the bushing to rotate
on
the chassis mount bolt sleeve and be stationary in the A arm or is
the
bushing to be held stationary in the chassis with the A arm rotating
on the bushing? Mikes comment below seems to first indicate the
former, but then suggests it's a combination of both?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 18, 2017, at 1:49 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
<[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
One more thought:
The poly bushings squeak on the ENDS where they rub against the
mounting
brackets. People also routinely overtighten the mounting bolts which
probably aggravates the situation.
People will go to great extremes to lube the OD surface of the
bushing
where it interfaces with the A-arm, and the inner surface where it
touches the steel sleeve, but fail to consider the ends, which can
rotate against the chassis mounts.
All surfaces need to be addressed. (This with poly bushings only).
With stock bushings, it's important to not tighten the mounting
bolts
with the suspension hanging unloaded. You can start them finger
tight
that way, but jack each corner with a floor jack to load the
suspension before applying final torque.
The bolts have Nylock nuts so aren't relying on torque to maintain
their
hold. Read the shop manual and follow the torque specifications
therein. The value might be lower than you would expect.....
Mike
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 17, 2017, at 21:42, Matt <[12]nwpantera at gmail.com> wrote:
With all due respect Dave it still sounds like you are not 100%
positive where the squeaks are coming from.
You checked the sway bar bushings. They are rubber. Survey says
rubber don't squeak.
So that leaves the suspension bushings. Are they rubber or poly?
You haven't said which they are that I've read.
I would think suspension bushings not sway bars would have more
tendency to squeak given your symptoms.
I would verify that for sure before making my next move.
If they are in fact poly then that's the problem and you've got
plenty of help in that department ;-) Personally I prefer the
original rubber bushings. I think the stated potential issues
associated with poly just don't seem to be worth the handling gains.
That's because I don't race my car enough to justify it. Some do
and that's usually is a popular upgrade.
I like a car with a forgiving ride and a little wiggle in it! Hence
rubber.
Matt
3584
On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 6:03 PM, [1][13]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
<[2][14]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com> wrote:
A A Sorry but now I am confused. I checked both the front and
rear sway A A bars and unless poly fittings are black I have
rubber bushings.
I
A A assume they are the originals. Something is squeaking so what
is the A A best course of action? Add zerks or replace?
A A Dave
A A Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone A A ------ Original
message------ A A From: Jack Donahue A A Date: Wed, Aug 16,
2017 4:42 PM A A To: Julian Kift; A A Cc:
[1][3][15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com;
A A Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Chassis I HIGHLY suggest the rubber
vs poly...If you drive your car d- on the street lik e most
everyone else, you'll never appreciate the difference - and it
just ain't A worth the effort every time she squeaks. It's
embarrassing.
Just sayin'
Jack
#4348
On Aug 15, 2017, at 4:10 PM, Julian KiftA wrote:
A A OEM rubber bushings don't squeak, but aftermarket poly
bushings do,
A A they require an annual greasing, so not necessarily 'bad',
just feeling
A A unloved...
A A Julian
A A A ______________________________
____________________________________
A A From: DeTomasoA on behalf of A [2]
[4][16]djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com A A Sent: Tuesday, August 15,
2017 4:06 PM A A To:[3] [5][17]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A Subject: [DeTomaso] Chassis
A A Hit a bump, step on the brake, turn the corner, the chassis
squeaks and
A A groans. Is this bad bushings?
A A ThanksSent from my Verizon LG Smartphone
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [4]
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t the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the
archiving of l ist messages.
_______________________________________________
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A A 3. mailto:%[12][24]20detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A 4. mailto:%[13][25]20DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
A A 5.
[14][26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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[15][27]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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References
1. [31]mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
2. [32]mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
3. [33]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
4. [34]mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
5. [35]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. [36]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
7. [37]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
8. [38]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
9. [39]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
10. [40]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
11. [41]mailto:20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
12. [42]mailto:20detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. [43]mailto:20DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. [44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
15. [45]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. [46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
17. [47]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. [48]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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References
1. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
2. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
3. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
6. mailto:steve at snclocks.com
7. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:lplugw at hotmail.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:lplugw at hotmail.com
11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:nwpantera at gmail.com
13. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
14. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
17. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
22. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
23. mailto:20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
24. mailto:20detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
25. mailto:20DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
27. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
29. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
30. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
31. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
32. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
33. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
34. mailto:djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
35. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
36. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
37. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
38. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
39. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
40. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
41. mailto:20djenkins at vanguardtrailer.com
42. mailto:20detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
43. mailto:20DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
45. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
46. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
47. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
48. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
49. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
50. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
51. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
52. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
53. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
54. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
55. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
56. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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