[DeTomaso] Detomaso SOHC heads?
Sean Korb
spkorb at gmail.com
Wed Apr 19 11:28:57 EDT 2017
Because Racecar. Just select a shorter driver :)
2. Having established this what do we have to do to make it win:
(i) Simply stated it must firstly be capable of lapping a racing
circuit quicker than any other car, with the least possible skill from
the driver, and doing it long enough to finish the race.
(ii) After this, and only after this, and with absolutely no
compromising of objective (2)(i) one has to consider how expensive it
is, how simple, how safe, & how easy to maintain, etc. NONE of these
aspects must detract one iota from (2)(i). “Good enough” is just NOT
good enough to win and keep winning.
On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Richard Greenblum
<richard at richardgreenblum.com> wrote:
> I wonder how he would have dealt with the longer crank pulley
> setup--the hump would be even larger than it is now, and that's only if
> the jack-shafts and cam belt drive cleared the firewall.
> Richard
> Austin, TX
>
> From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
> of Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 9:51
> To: "[3]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com" <[4]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>,
> MikeDrew <[5]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, "[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> <[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Detomaso SOHC heads?
>
> Mike,
> From your photo it would appear that the heads could indeed be stock
> 351C with the addition of a bolt on housing (rocker cover) carrying
> the
> camshaft, which would be the simplest way to get the overhead cam
> actuating the valves.
> Julian
> __________________________________________________________________
> From: DeTomaso <[8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
> behalf of
> Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 3:06 AM
> To: [10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com;
> [11]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Detomaso SOHC heads?
> In a message dated 4/18/17 23 57 10, [12]daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
> writes:
> Anyone know the story on this engine (see attached photo)?
> >>>Sorry I didn't get to this sooner, but 'yes'!
> >Detomaso belt driven SOHC heads on a 351C block with dual plane
> intake
> manifold. Heads and belt drive arrangement are very similar to
> the
> Ford 289 SOHC experimental engine but the intake (a raw casting)
> and
> the valve covers are unique. Were these heads developed
> independently
> or in conjunction with Ford?
> I know Detomaso had Weslake produce some pushrod heads that were
> very
> similar to the Gurney Weslake 2 valve pushrod heads.A Were the
> SOHC
> heads
> developed for the Detomaso Sports 5000 (a.k.a. P70) or some other
> racer?
> >>>Here's the story, as told to me by Don Coleman, who was an
> executive
> for
> Ford in the 1960s/1970s. He was the head of the smallblock V-8
> program
> (289/302) during the Gulf GT40 years, and through his friendship
> with
> Claude
> Dubois, he was the fellow that arranged the sale of those engines to
> De
> Tomaso for the Mangusta. When the Pantera program started ramping
> up,
> in 1970,
> due to his pre-existing relationship with De Tomaso, Ford sent him
> to
> Modena
> to be the sole American coordinating the project with De Tomaso.
> The Pantera was designed to use the standard 351C, but De Tomaso
> loved
> trick, exotic things, and he took it upon himself to have his
> engineers
> (with
> ZERO Ford input) design and construct several examples of an
> aluminum
> head
> SOHC conversion for the stock 351C bottom end. While attention was
> primarily
> focused on the Pantera, in 1970 De Tomaso had also (on his own, with
> only
> minimal encouragement from Lee Iacocca) conjured up the Deauville,
> and
> if you
> look at the original cutaway drawing of the Deauville (see link
> below),
> you
> will see that it is equipped with this SOHC engine.
>
> [1][13]https://images.honestjohn.co.uk/imagecache/file/fit/730x700/medi
> a/76
> 19551/De
> %20Tomaso%20Deauville%20(3).jpg
> The original configuration called for it to have four, two-barrel
> Weber
> carburetors, but instead of being arranged in the fashion we're most
> accustomed
> to seeing on Ford V8s like the GT40, and later Pantera race cars,
> these
> carbs were arranged in-line, like a Ferrari V-12, or Maserati
> Quattroporte/Kyalami/Bora. (In fact, the whole carburetor/air
> cleaner
> arrangement was
> virtually identical to the Maseratis, but of course the intake
> manifold
> was
> different).
> De Tomaso spent a fortune developing this engine, and proudly walked
> into
> Don's office one day and announced it was complete. They saw it
> run
> on a
> dyno, and while it worked, and it produced more power than a stock
> 351C, the
> numbers weren't all that much better, and a stock 351C could easily
> surpass
> it by simply fitting a hotter camshaft. The cost to produce the
> SOHC-head
> version would triple the cost of the engine, for only a marginal
> gain,
> so Don
> said "thanks but no thanks" and the Pantera got the standard Mustang
> engine instead.
> De Tomaso was disappointed that his Pantera would be stuck with such
> a
> plebian motor; he felt that the SOHC conversion would elevate the
> status of the
> whole car, and thought that Don and Ford were stupid to ignore his
> idea.
> That was one of many conflicts he had with Don, which finally
> resulted
> in Don
> getting fired from the Pantera project about a year after arriving
> in
> Modena, and transferred back to Detroit.
> (Don, BTW, is a resident of Carmel Valley and presumably will be in
> attendance at the upcoming Fun Rally; he was the guest speaker at
> the
> Las Vegas
> POCA Fun Rally about 10-15 years ago).
> The last time I visited De Tomaso in Modena, I happened to pass one
> of
> the
> prototype SOHC engines, but only shot one crappy photo (attached).
> What is
> difficult to make out in this photo is that the valve covers were
> cut
> away
> and fitted with clear windows, so that the engineers could see what
> was
> happening inside the engine while it was running on the test stand.
> Note also that this engine has a single four-barrel intake manifold
> as
> opposed to the quad-Weber intake. That Weber intake may have
> existed
> in
> drawing form only. While I didn't look closely at the four-barrel
> intake, the
> impression I got was that the 'hard points' on the cylinder heads
> matched
> those of the standard 351C heads, so that a conventional 351C intake
> would bolt
> up to the engine. So if that's true, the intake is probably an
> over-the-counter Ford aluminum 351C intake (Dan would know for sure,
> I
> would assume).
> BTW, the photo that Dan shared is of a different engine, which
> Wilkinson
> bought from De Tomaso some years ago. It's sitting on a stand in
> his
> shop; I
> just saw it there a couple of weeks ago, and meant to take photos of
> it,
> but I forgot!
> Mike
> References
> 1.
> [14]https://images.honestjohn.co.uk/imagecache/file/fit/730x700/media/7
> 619551/De
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> References
>
> 1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 3. mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
> 4. mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
> 5. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 11. mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
> 12. mailto:daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
> 13. https://images.honestjohn.co.uk/imagecache/file/fit/730x700/media/76
> 14. https://images.honestjohn.co.uk/imagecache/file/fit/730x700/media/7619551/De
> 15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
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--
Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65 Suprang,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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