[DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank)

Himes, Terry (397C) terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
Fri Sep 23 01:12:41 EDT 2016


Got'em both.


"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
 stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"

Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell:     (818) 653-8213
Fax:     (818) 393-3147
thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
🇺🇸

From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of Jack Donahue <demongusta at gmail.com<mailto:demongusta at gmail.com>>
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016 9:15 PM
To: Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber at cox.net<mailto:lindahuber at cox.net>>
Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank)

It’s probably me or my computer, but I have no pics or diagrams coming in. ANYONE ELSE?

on Sep 22, 2016, at 7:19 PM, Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber at cox.net<mailto:lindahuber at cox.net>> wrote:
Here's the other shots of my tanks.
These mods were fabricated up by W-Wadeco Inc. (Wade Musil of Tucson, AZ)
#8 shows the brass elbow on the top of the swirl tank.  The pressure cap was removed and the top sealed up.  Actually, Wade built me a complete new swirl tank.
#9 shows the two "inlet fittings" on the top of the expansion tank.  Wade fabricated this entire tank as well.
#10 shows the mounting in the bay.   The plumbing is not hooked up in this picture.
Chuck
Wade may be on this board.  If so, I want to thank him again for the fine work.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. [mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 1:19 PM
To: 'Guido deTomaso'; 'Chuck and Linda Huber'; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank)
I am being serious this post...
I couldn't see the pics, but you confirmed how I thought Chuck had plumbed his tanks.
I agree that way provides active deaeration and it will be one of the few modifications I plan to include.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Guido deTomaso
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 15:59 PM
To: Chuck and Linda Huber; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank)
This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active deaeration system using suction from the water pump to continuously flow water through the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points in the system.
But how common, how many have built a system like this ?
The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was likely incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively high-pressure swirl tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude while the engine is running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator to the swirl tank, it's not going to actively de-aerate.  Initial fill, I can see it helping.  After that, I'm scratching my head.
Thanks,
GD
      From: Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber at cox.net<mailto:lindahuber at cox.net>>
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank)
There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the top of the radiator into the expansion tank.  The expansion tank is under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank.
I did this on my car.
I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from the radiator.
I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank.
Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed.
Chuck
I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me...
-----Original Message-----
From: Owen Cooke [mailto:owen at tadhgcooke.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM
To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re:
DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19
Julian
yes you could be right  i need to check it all again
owen cooke
On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
"but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"
I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's,
connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long
hose.  Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the
radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of
the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point.
But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from
the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not
sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air
in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water
in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ?  Is there some
Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an
official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
Thanks,
Guy D.
<06-26-2014 (8) (Medium).jpg><06-26-2014 (9) (Medium).jpg><06-26-2014 (11) (Medium).jpg>_______________________________________________
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-------------- next part --------------
   Got'em both.

   "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,

    stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"

   Terry W. Himes

   JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory

   Dawn Spacecraft Team

   Rosetta Sequence Team Lead

   Phone: (818) 393-6261

   Cell:     (818) 653-8213

   Fax:     (818) 393-3147

   [1]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov

   From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
   of Jack Donahue <[3]demongusta at gmail.com>
   Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016 9:15 PM
   To: Chuck and Linda Huber <[4]lindahuber at cox.net>
   Cc: "[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
   <[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It
   doesn't go to the swirl tank)

   It's probably me or my computer, but I have no pics or diagrams coming
   in. ANYONE ELSE?

   on Sep 22, 2016, at 7:19 PM, Chuck and Linda Huber
   <[7]lindahuber at cox.net> wrote:

   Here's the other shots of my tanks.

   These mods were fabricated up by W-Wadeco Inc. (Wade Musil of Tucson,
   AZ)

   #8 shows the brass elbow on the top of the swirl tank.  The pressure
   cap was removed and the top sealed up.  Actually, Wade built me a
   complete new swirl tank.

   #9 shows the two "inlet fittings" on the top of the expansion
   tank.  Wade fabricated this entire tank as well.

   #10 shows the mounting in the bay.   The plumbing is not hooked up in
   this picture.

   Chuck

   Wade may be on this board.  If so, I want to thank him again for the
   fine work.

   -----Original Message-----

   From: Joseph F. Byrd, Jr. [[8]mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com]

   Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 1:19 PM

   To: 'Guido deTomaso'; 'Chuck and Linda Huber';
   [9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com

   Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It
   doesn't go to the swirl tank)

   I am being serious this post...

   I couldn't see the pics, but you confirmed how I thought Chuck had
   plumbed his tanks.

   I agree that way provides active deaeration and it will be one of the
   few modifications I plan to include.

   Joe

   -----Original Message-----

   From: DeTomaso [[10]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
   Behalf Of Guido deTomaso

   Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 15:59 PM

   To: Chuck and Linda Huber; [11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com

   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It
   doesn't go to the swirl tank)

   This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active
   deaeration system using suction from the water pump to continuously
   flow water through the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points
   in the system.

   But how common, how many have built a system like this ?

   The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was
   likely incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively
   high-pressure swirl tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude
   while the engine is running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator
   to the swirl tank, it's not going to actively de-aerate.  Initial fill,
   I can see it helping.  After that, I'm scratching my head.

   Thanks,

   GD

         From: Chuck and Linda Huber <[12]lindahuber at cox.net>

   To: [13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com

   Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM

   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It
   doesn't go to the swirl tank)

   There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and
   the top of the radiator into the expansion tank.  The expansion tank is
   under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the
   expansion tank.

   I did this on my car.

   I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air
   from the radiator.

   I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car
   from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead
   past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank.

   Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings
   installed.

   Chuck

   I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me...

   -----Original Message-----

   From: Owen Cooke [[14]mailto:owen at tadhgcooke.com]

   Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM

   To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; [15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com

   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was
   Re:

   DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19

   Julian

   yes you could be right  i need to check it all again

   owen cooke

   On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:

   "but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"

   I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's,

   connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long

   hose.  Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.

   With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the

   radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of

   the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point.

   But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from

   the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not

   sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.

   Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air

   in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water

   in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ?  Is there some

   Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?

   Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an

   official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?

   Thanks,

   Guy D.

   <06-26-2014 (8) (Medium).jpg><06-26-2014 (9) (Medium).jpg><06-26-2014
   (11) (Medium).jpg>_______________________________________________

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   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes

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   or approve the archiving of list messages.

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References

   1. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
   2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   3. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
   4. mailto:lindahuber at cox.net
   5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   7. mailto:lindahuber at cox.net
   8. mailto:byrdjf at embarqmail.com
   9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  12. mailto:lindahuber at cox.net
  13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  14. mailto:owen at tadhgcooke.com
  15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  16. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  17. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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