[DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't go to the swirl tank)
Richard Greenblum
Richard at richardgreenblum.com
Thu Sep 22 16:51:58 EDT 2016
My stupid guess is that it works, if at all, when the system is cool and
pressures have subsided. The top of the radiator is lower than the tank, so
perhaps the air trapped at the top of the radiator after a heat cycle
travels to the tank. Either that, or the speed of the water in the tank
while the engine is running creates enough suction that it scavenges the air
(and some water) from the top of the radiator.
If I recall correctly, when I installed my aluminum radiator from PPC 15 or
more years ago, Dennis told me not to worry about that line, it didn¹t do
anything anyway. I¹ve followed the raising and bleeding procedures since
with no water temp problems (except for erratic gauge readings at times) but
no actual overheating.
Richard
Austin, TX
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
"Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <byrdjf at embarqmail.com>
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 15:18
To: 'Guido deTomaso' <guido_detomaso at prodigy.net>, 'Chuck and Linda Huber'
<lindahuber at cox.net>, <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't
go to the swirl tank)
I am being serious this post...
I couldn't see the pics, but you confirmed how I thought Chuck had plumbed
his tanks.
I agree that way provides active deaeration and it will be one of the few
modifications I plan to include.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
Of Guido deTomaso
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 15:59 PM
To: Chuck and Linda Huber; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't
go to the swirl tank)
This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active deaeration
system using suction from the water pump to continuously flow water through
the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points in the system.
But how common, how many have built a system like this ?
The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was likely
incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively high-pressure swirl
tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude while the engine is
running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator to the swirl tank, it's
not going to actively de-aerate. Initial fill, I can see it helping. After
that, I'm scratching my head.
Thanks,
GD
From: Chuck and Linda Huber <lindahuber at cox.net>
To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It doesn't
go to the swirl tank)
There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and the
top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is under
suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the expansion tank.
I did this on my car.
I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air from
the radiator.
I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car from
near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead past the
electrics panel, to near the expansion tank.
Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings installed.
Chuck
I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me...
-----Original Message-----
From: Owen Cooke [mailto:owen at tadhgcooke.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM
To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was Re:
DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19
Julian
yes you could be right i need to check it all again
owen cooke
>
>
> On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > "but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"
>> >
>> > I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's,
>> > connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long
>> > hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
>> >
>> > With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the
>> > radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of
>> > the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher point.
>> >
>> > But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from
>> > the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not
>> > sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
>> >
>> > Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air
>> > in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water
>> > in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some
>> > Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
>> >
>> > Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an
>> > official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Guy D.
>> >
>> >
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-------------- next part --------------
My stupid guess is that it works, if at all, when the system is cool
and pressures have subsided. The top of the radiator is lower than the
tank, so perhaps the air trapped at the top of the radiator after a
heat cycle travels to the tank. Either that, or the speed of the water
in the tank while the engine is running creates enough suction that it
scavenges the air (and some water) from the top of the radiator.
If I recall correctly, when I installed my aluminum radiator from PPC
15 or more years ago, Dennis told me not to worry about that line, it
didn't do anything anyway. I've followed the raising and bleeding
procedures since with no water temp problems (except for erratic gauge
readings at times) but no actual overheating.
Richard
Austin, TX
From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of "Joseph F. Byrd, Jr." <[2]byrdjf at embarqmail.com>
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 15:18
To: 'Guido deTomaso' <[3]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net>, 'Chuck and Linda
Huber' <[4]lindahuber at cox.net>, <[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It
doesn't go to the swirl tank)
I am being serious this post...
I couldn't see the pics, but you confirmed how I thought Chuck had
plumbed his tanks.
I agree that way provides active deaeration and it will be one of the
few modifications I plan to include.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [[6]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
Behalf Of Guido deTomaso
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 15:59 PM
To: Chuck and Linda Huber; [7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It
doesn't go to the swirl tank)
This (below) is a genius modification, creating a true active
deaeration system using suction from the water pump to continuously
flow water through the expansion tank, drawing air from the high points
in the system.
But how common, how many have built a system like this ?
The TSB modification, which some here ( Tomas? ) have confirmed was
likely incorporated at the factory, connects the relatively
high-pressure swirl tank to the lower-pressure radiator, so I conclude
while the engine is running, nothing is going to flow from the radiator
to the swirl tank, it's not going to actively de-aerate. Initial fill,
I can see it helping. After that, I'm scratching my head.
Thanks,
GD
From: Chuck and Linda Huber <[8]lindahuber at cox.net>
To: [9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank (It
doesn't go to the swirl tank)
There is definitely a mod that sucks air from both the swirl tank, and
the top of the radiator into the expansion tank. The expansion tank is
under suction, and this causes any trapped air to bleed to the
expansion tank.
I did this on my car.
I believe that it does its job, especially of removing any trapped air
from the radiator.
I had to run a new, separate metal hard line down the length of the car
from near the front of the radiator, all the way back up the bulkhead
past the electrics panel, to near the expansion tank.
Here are pictures of my tanks with the appropriate bleed fittings
installed.
Chuck
I think Joe was just joking - His Coriolis post confused me...
-----Original Message-----
From: Owen Cooke [[10]mailto:owen at tadhgcooke.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 5:45 AM
To: Julian Kift; Guido deTomaso; [11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Top of radiator connected to swirl tank, was
Re:
DeTomaso Digest, Vol 147, Issue 19
Julian
yes you could be right i need to check it all again
owen cooke
On 21/09/2016 22:37, Guido deTomaso wrote:
>
>
> "but my car had bleed pipe from the rad back to the swirl tank"
>
> I'm kinda fascinated by this mod, which I believe is in the TSB's,
> connecting the top of the radiator to the swirl tank with a long
> hose. Not sure how it works or what it was supposed to do.
>
> With a completely dry system, I can visualise how it would allow the
> radiator to fill completely, as air formerly trapped in the top of
> the radiator would have a path back to the swirl tank, a higher
point.
>
> But once the engine is started, water or air is going to move from
> the swirl tank to the radiator, because of pressure difference. Not
> sure this is helpful but maybe isn't harmful.
>
> Most difficult to visualize, if the engine is off and there is air
> in the radiator, can the weight / head / row gee aych of the water
> in the swirl tank push the air into the swirl tank ? Is there some
> Archimedes rule I'm not seeing here ?
>
> Also did any cars come from the factory this way, was there an
> official path and mounting systems for the hose ? Cable ties ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Guy D.
>
>
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