[DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge Part Deux - Mechanical Gauge Test
JEFFREY COBB
jeffcobb1 at me.com
Thu Sep 8 05:41:09 EDT 2016
Well Jim,
I was going on the assumption that we were dealing with a drivable engine not one on crutches. Yes thick oil is an acceptable and needed cushionable band aid used by me and hundred of thousands of others.
Though really thick oil should cause the bleed off pressure to be higher because as the bleed off piston opens to release calculated build up, thicker oil could cause enough resistance to flow. The impending exit port flow which will cause X psi not to bleed out/off fast enough which in turn keeps said pressure still in the oil galleys at a higher than calculated pressure.
Not that 75 + - "5 atm @ 5k rpm" is a high pressure, it is just very common bled off pressure. Higher psi is always better as it can flush away trash, support higher bearing peak loads, break and wash kdown oil scum buildup as long as its pumped up heat is removed and the oil pump drive system can support it.
Four or so years ago I wrote about doing a five year oil test on a Lamborghini Espada and the effects or not the many different oils gave. I used Mobil One 10-40, Castrol 20-50, GTX, Kendall 50, Castrol High Milage and Pentosin 10-40. I drive it about 600 miles a year, drive it like I stoled it, have an additional large Earls oil cooler and changed it once a year.
No difference was found in hot-cold oil psi or oil and water temps with its original non-rebuilt 55,000 mile engine!
The only difference was that Pentosin did stop all the normal Italian exhaust smoke caused by no seals on exhaust valve guides and or valve guide wear. Only believed reasons for smoke stoppage was that Pentosin has a high amount of ZDP and maybe that acted as a oil bondo type filler between the valves and guides.
All I know is the idle and acceleration smoke left my car.
Now all my cars and customer cars run on Pentosin oil.
And going to a thicker oil in a tired engine will restore higher psi because of its slower flow and less leakage from bearing sides.
Jeff Cobb- I pad
W-225-343-7525
C-225-907-4514
On Sep 4, 2016, at 9:21 PM, Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
> I assume you mean the weight of the oil does not affect the maximum 75psi bleed off point-- 75 psi is 75 psi, no matter the oil involved.
>
> But thin oil in an old engine with large clearances can definitely give you pressure that is too low at hot idle. Going to a thicker oil should give you a higher pressure.
>
> Jim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1 at me.com>
> To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>; Pantera Mail List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2016 5:02 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge Part Deux - Mechanical Gauge Test
>
> Mike,
>
> Most engines are set to provide 15 psi ( 1 atmosphere ) every 1,000 rpm
> up to about a normal industry wide bled off at 75 psi about 5k rpm.
> Your hot idled oil psi seems higher than normal.
> Which is ok if you have a high oil volume instead of a higher pressure unit.
> Oil grades, brands, weights and synthetic or not truly do not make a difference in psi/rpms.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Sep 3, 2016, at 4:03 PM, Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Received the mechanical gauge from Mike Drew today (thanks Mike). Put
> > it on and started the motor, and it reads 60 lbs. at start and warm up
> > at 1500 RPM's, not much less at idle (~900 when the choke lets go(,
> > and only a little more when I rev. That doesn't seem right. I would
> > expect it to drop pretty low at idle.
> >
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Mike Thomas
> >
> > From: Richard Greenblum [mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com]
> >
> > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 7:19 PM
> > To: Mike Thomas <mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
> >
> >
> > Thanks Mike, I'm going to look him up.
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Sep 2, 2016, at 18:43, Mike Thomas <[1]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Rick Sanchez
> >
> >
> > From: Richard Greenblum [[2]mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 5:53 PM
> > To: Mike Thomas <[3]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
> >
> >
> > Know it well, the zip code is 78154. It's right outside San Antonio and
> > next to Randolph AFB, where I was stationed for most of my Air Force
> > Reserve career. About 60 miles from my house in Austin. I'm sure
> > Michael Frazier knows him.
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Sep 1, 2016, at 19:38, Mike Thomas <[4]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Actually in a town called Schertz, not sure how close that is to you.
> > Zip is 87154.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > From: Richard Greenblum [[5]mailto:Richard at richardgreenblum.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 7:41 AM
> > To: Mike Thomas <[6]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
> >
> >
> > That wasn't me, Mike. If there's another Richard in Austin with a
> > Pantera, I'd like to meet him!
> >
> >
> > Did you attend the Rally two years ago put on by Space City Panteras?
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Mike Thomas <[7]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> > Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 22:17
> > To: Richard Greenblum <[8]richard at richardgreenblum.com>
> > Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
> >
> >
> > Thanks Richard
> >
> > Are you the same Richard in Texas who just bought my firewall cover?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > From: Richard Greenblum [[9]mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com]
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 6:13 PM
> >
> > To: Mike Thomas <[10]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> >
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
> >
> >
> > Mike, I obviously can't tell what your problem is from here, but mine
> > did
> >
> > that for a while. When I tapped on the glass sometimes it would start
> >
> > working again, sometimes it wouldn't. Then it stopped and has been
> > normal
> >
> > for a while. I think it's obviously the gauge.
> >
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > Austin, TX
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Aug 31, 2016, at 19:26, Mike Thomas <[11]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > I'm trying to figure out why I'm getting a pegged reading on my oil
> >
> > pressure gauge. It will show normal pressure as the car starts, but
> >
> > soon after pegs to the right and stays there. Everything runs fine
> >
> > otherwise. I've swapped out the pressure sender, NAPA OP6091, and
> >
> > it's still pegging, so I'm suspecting the gauge. Anything else I could
> >
> > check?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mike Thomas
> >
> > Pres., Panteras Northwest
> >
> > Yellow '74 #6328
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
> >
> > exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
> >
> > [12]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >
> > [13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use
> >
> > the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> >
> > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> > list.
> >
> > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> > approve
> >
> > the archiving of list messages.
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> > 2. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com
> > 3. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> > 4. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> > 5. mailto:Richard at richardgreenblum.com
> > 6. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> > 7. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> > 8. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com
> > 9. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com
> > 10. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> > 11. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> > 12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
Well Jim,
I was going on the assumption that we were dealing with a drivable
engine not one on crutches. Yes thick oil is an acceptable and needed
cushionable band aid used by me and hundred of thousands of others.
Though really thick oil should cause the bleed off pressure to be
higher because as the bleed off piston opens to release calculated
build up, thicker oil could cause enough resistance to flow. The
impending exit port flow which will cause X psi not to bleed out/off
fast enough which in turn keeps said pressure still in the oil galleys
at a higher than calculated pressure.
Not that 75 + - "5 atm @ 5k rpm" is a high pressure, it is just very
common bled off pressure. Higher psi is always better as it can flush
away trash, support higher bearing peak loads, break and wash kdown oil
scum buildup as long as its pumped up heat is removed and the oil pump
drive system can support it.
Four or so years ago I wrote about doing a five year oil test on a
Lamborghini Espada and the effects or not the many different oils gave.
I used Mobil One 10-40, Castrol 20-50, GTX, Kendall 50, Castrol High
Milage and Pentosin 10-40. I drive it about 600 miles a year, drive it
like I stoled it, have an additional large Earls oil cooler and changed
it once a year.
No difference was found in hot-cold oil psi or oil and water temps with
its original non-rebuilt 55,000 mile engine!
The only difference was that Pentosin did stop all the normal Italian
exhaust smoke caused by no seals on exhaust valve guides and or valve
guide wear. Only believed reasons for smoke stoppage was that Pentosin
has a high amount of ZDP and maybe that acted as a oil bondo type
filler between the valves and guides.
All I know is the idle and acceleration smoke left my car.
Now all my cars and customer cars run on Pentosin oil.
And going to a thicker oil in a tired engine will restore higher psi
because of its slower flow and less leakage from bearing sides.
Jeff Cobb- I pad
W-225-343-7525
C-225-907-4514
On Sep 4, 2016, at 9:21 PM, Pantdino <[1]pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
I assume you mean the weight of the oil does not affect the maximum
75psi bleed off point-- 75 psi is 75 psi, no matter the oil involved.
But thin oil in an old engine with large clearances can definitely give
you pressure that is too low at hot idle. Going to a thicker oil
should give you a higher pressure.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Cobb <[2]jeffcobb1 at me.com>
To: Mike Thomas <[3]mbefthomas at comcast.net>; Pantera Mail List
<[4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2016 5:02 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge Part Deux - Mechanical Gauge
Test
Mike,
Most engines are set to provide 15 psi ( 1 atmosphere ) every 1,000 rpm
up to about a normal industry wide bled off at 75 psi about 5k rpm.
Your hot idled oil psi seems higher than normal.
Which is ok if you have a high oil volume instead of a higher pressure
unit.
Oil grades, brands, weights and synthetic or not truly do not make a
difference in psi/rpms.
Jeff
On Sep 3, 2016, at 4:03 PM, Mike Thomas <[5]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
wrote:
> Received the mechanical gauge from Mike Drew today (thanks Mike). Put
> it on and started the motor, and it reads 60 lbs. at start and warm
up
> at 1500 RPM's, not much less at idle (~900 when the choke lets go(,
> and only a little more when I rev. That doesn't seem right. I would
> expect it to drop pretty low at idle.
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Mike Thomas
>
> From: Richard Greenblum [[6]mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com]
>
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 7:19 PM
> To: Mike Thomas <[7]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
>
>
> Thanks Mike, I'm going to look him up.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 2, 2016, at 18:43, Mike Thomas <[1][8]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> Rick Sanchez
>
>
> From: Richard Greenblum [[2][9]mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 5:53 PM
> To: Mike Thomas <[3][10]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
>
>
> Know it well, the zip code is 78154. It's right outside San Antonio
and
> next to Randolph AFB, where I was stationed for most of my Air Force
> Reserve career. About 60 miles from my house in Austin. I'm sure
> Michael Frazier knows him.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 1, 2016, at 19:38, Mike Thomas <[4][11]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> Actually in a town called Schertz, not sure how close that is to you.
> Zip is 87154.
>
> Mike
>
>
> From: Richard Greenblum [[5][12]mailto:Richard at richardgreenblum.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 7:41 AM
> To: Mike Thomas <[6][13]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
>
>
> That wasn't me, Mike. If there's another Richard in Austin with a
> Pantera, I'd like to meet him!
>
>
> Did you attend the Rally two years ago put on by Space City Panteras?
>
>
>
> From: Mike Thomas <[7][14]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 22:17
> To: Richard Greenblum <[8][15]richard at richardgreenblum.com>
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
>
>
> Thanks Richard
>
> Are you the same Richard in Texas who just bought my firewall cover?
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Richard Greenblum [[9][16]mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com]
>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 6:13 PM
>
> To: Mike Thomas <[10][17]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pressure Gauge
>
>
> Mike, I obviously can't tell what your problem is from here, but mine
> did
>
> that for a while. When I tapped on the glass sometimes it would start
>
> working again, sometimes it wouldn't. Then it stopped and has been
> normal
>
> for a while. I think it's obviously the gauge.
>
>
> Richard
>
> Austin, TX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2016, at 19:26, Mike Thomas
<[11][18]mbefthomas at comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to figure out why I'm getting a pegged reading on my oil
>
> pressure gauge. It will show normal pressure as the car starts, but
>
> soon after pegs to the right and stays there. Everything runs fine
>
> otherwise. I've swapped out the pressure sender, NAPA OP6091, and
>
> it's still pegging, so I'm suspecting the gauge. Anything else I
could
>
> check?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Thomas
>
> Pres., Panteras Northwest
>
> Yellow '74 #6328
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not
>
> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
>
> [12][19]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>
> [13][20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use
>
> the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
>
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list.
>
> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> approve
>
> the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. [21]mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> 2. [22]mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com
> 3. [23]mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> 4. [24]mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> 5. [25]mailto:Richard at richardgreenblum.com
> 6. [26]mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> 7. [27]mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> 8. [28]mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com
> 9. [29]mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com
> 10. [30]mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> 11. [31]mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
> 12. [32]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 13. [33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [34]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [35]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[36]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[37]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:pantdino at aol.com
2. mailto:jeffcobb1 at me.com
3. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
6. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com?
7. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
8. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
9. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com?
10. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
11. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
12. mailto:Richard at richardgreenblum.com?
13. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
14. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
15. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com
16. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com?
17. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
18. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net
19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
21. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net?
22. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com?
23. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net?
24. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net?
25. mailto:Richard at richardgreenblum.com?
26. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net?
27. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net?
28. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com?
29. mailto:richard at richardgreenblum.com?
30. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net?
31. mailto:mbefthomas at comcast.net?
32. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
33. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
34. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
35. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
36. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
37. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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