[DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
Jerry Knotts
knottsj at galstar.com
Fri Oct 7 21:05:08 EDT 2016
Wow, Is that a Sansui alternator. Looks like one of their IED washing
machines running.
That should equate to some problems.
jerry knotts
On 10/7/2016 7:51 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso wrote:
> All,
>
> Check this out. I have never bothered to look at the alternator while
> the engine was running before, as it can only be seen from under the
> car.
>
> Today I put the car on the lift and had Lori start it up while I filmed
> it:
>
> [1]http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew
>
> Look at how violently it's shaking! You can feel it throughout the
> car--the engine was smooth on the dyno but there is a vibration now.
>
> I haven't yet explored to see WHY it's shaking so much. I wonder if the
> mounting bolt that came with the kit is the wrong diameter and the
> alternator is loose even when it's tight?
>
> I can easily imagine this kind of motion being responsible for the
> problems we have been having, don't you?
>
> Mike
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 7, 2016, at 0:29, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[2]guson at home.se> wrote:
>
> The AC Delco 10si alternator has nine internal rectifier diodes, see
> attached pics. The main six diode rectifier bridge is top middle. The
> triple diode that powers the regulator is to the left of the ball
> bearing. This triple diode is also what turns off the alternator lamp.
> If you hook up a load between lamp terminal and ground this bridge will
> provide power to the load, something it's not designed to do. The
> result will be burnt out diodes in the diode trio and a loss of power
> to the regulator which in turn leads to loss of alternator output. Like
> you I think that the problem is the regulator but the question is why
> it keeps breaking.
>
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Guido deTomaso [[3]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net]
> Sent: 6/10/2016 6:01:07 PM
> To: [4]guson at home.se;[5]tipo874 at gmail.com
> Cc: [6]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
> I'm lost ... the rectifier diodes, typically six, each transit roughly
> 1/3 of the alternators output. Collectively they transmit all the
> output power. Any loads added anywhere tax the diodes.
> OTOH, certain cars I'm aware of run many loads through the lamp
> circuit, bulb test in the example I'm familiar with, and some/many/most
> alternator voltage regulators can't handle the current. These require
> a special voltage regulator.
> Unlikely the root cause of the problem at hand ... my money is on bad
> regulator unfortunately inside the GM alternator not conveniently
> remote mounted.
> Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong.
> GD
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson <[8]guson at home.se>
> To: [9]tipo874 at gmail.com
> Cc: [10]MikeLDrew at aol.com; [11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 11:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
> If the marginal connection is between battery and ammeter it will
> fluctuate between zero and charge. If it's between alternator and
> ammeter it will fluctuate between charge and discharge. Right Thomas?
> Another thought: Have you by accident hooked anything up to the lamp
> post on the alternator (or the wire going between post and dashboard
> lamp) that's using significant power? That pin will provide power
> when
> running but the rectifier diodes inside will not be up for the task
> and
> burn out in short time. Just a thought as you've been going through
> alternators at high pace. I'd like to disconnect the lamp wire from
> the
> alternator with the engine running and see what happens. Note that
> the
> sense wire will have to stay connected if you have one.
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Thomas Toernblom [[12]tipo874 at gmail.com]
> Sent: 3/10/2016 9:49:41 PM
> To: [13]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Cc: [14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
> Check the fat wire from B+ (or what it is called on the alt) to the
> ammeter. If there is a marginal connection there the voltage can
> fluctuate wildly and possibly kill semiconductors in the alt.
> > 3 okt. 2016 kl. 18:00 skrev Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>:
> >
> > All,
> >
> > Further to my original inquiry, I failed to mention that this is a
> GM
> alternator with built-in regulator, running in the stock three-wire
> configuration. Normally it works normally--shows a somewhat strong
> charge for a short time after engine start, coming back down to
> slight
> charge when battery is 'full' again, with slight discharge at idle
> when
> fans, lights etc are on.
> >
> > When it starts acting up, initially the needle bounces erratically
> over a small range between slight charge and slight discharge. After
> a
> few minutes of that, it goes into greater discharge mode as it quits
> completely.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Oct 3, 2016, at 8:15, "Himes, Terry (397C)"
> <[16]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> >>
> >> Ditto. I put in 2 rebuilt units and they both failed. Finally
> bought
> >> a new one.
> >> No problem since.
> >>
> >> "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
> >>
> >> stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
> >>
> >> Terry W. Himes
> >>
> >> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
> >>
> >> Dawn Spacecraft Team
> >>
> >> Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
> >>
> >> Phone: (818) 393-6261
> >>
> >> Cell: (818) 653-8213
> >>
> >> Fax: (818) 393-3147
> >>
> >> [1][17]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> >>
> >> From: DeTomaso <[2][18]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
> on
> behalf
> >> of Julian Kift <[3][19]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> >> Date: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:57 AM
> >> To: "[4][20]MikeLDrew at aol.com" <[5][21]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
> >> "[6][22]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
> >> <[7][23]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
> >>
> >> Mike,
> >> I hate chasing these type of electrical problems, but here's some
> >> thoughts;
> >> i) Battery going bad (how old is it?), requiring the alternator to
> have
> >> to constantly charge
> >> ii) Some alternator re builders are notorious for units failing,
> over a
> >> 50% failure rate is not uncommon. I had a similar issue with my
> GT40;
> >> on the third alternator we switched to a higher amp 'new' unit and
> >> never had a problem since.
> >> iii) It could also be an intermittent short or bad ground
> >> Julian
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: DeTomaso <[8][24]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
> on
> behalf
> >> of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[9][25]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 9:11 PM
> >> To: [10][26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
> >> Hi guys,
> >> Just got home from a terrific weekend in the Sierra foothills; 24
> >> Panteras
> >> (of the 36 scheduled) took part in the Niello concours at Serrano.
> It
> >> heaved down with rain for a very brief period, but that rain then
> >> turned to snow
> >> which kept the large Reno/Tahoe contingent from braving the
> summit.
> >> Still, a great time was had by all who attended, and we drove home
> in
> >> splendid
> >> sunshine.
> >> We were driving in Lori's Pantera, which has a flat firewall kit
> and
> >> uses a
> >> GM alternator with built-in regulator. She drove the car to Vegas
> >> this
> >> spring, and the alternator failed while we were there. At first it
> >> started
> >> acting erratic, with the amp needle bouncing around, and then
> finally
> >> it quit
> >> and just showed a partial discharge. Testing at the battery
> revealed
> >> it
> >> was doing nothing at that point. We replaced it with another one,
> >> which did
> >> exactly the same thing and failed about 50 miles from home.
> >> We replaced THAT one, and the third one has worked fine until
> today.
> >> But
> >> it probably only has about 250 miles on it or so. On the way home,
> >> once
> >> again, I noticed the ammeter needle behaving erratically, then it
> quit
> >> and
> >> showed partial discharge for many miles, then briefly came back to
> life
> >> and
> >> showed a very strong charge (since we had been running on battery
> power
> >> for
> >> awhile), then discharged again.
> >> Methinks the problem is not simply that alternators are failing,
> but
> >> rather
> >> that there is some sort of fault in the electrical system. As
> >> electrons
> >> are far from my strong suit, I hesitate to start diving it to it
> >> blindly.
> >> What say all of you?
> >> FWIW we've got a spare alternator we will be installing tomorrow,
> which
> >> almost assuredly will work just fine...for awhile anyway????
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> References
> >>
> >> 1. [27]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> >> 2. [28]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> >> 3. [29]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> >> 4. [30]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> >> 5. [31]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> >> 6. [32]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> 7. [33]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> 8. [34]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> >> 9. [35]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> 10. [36]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> [37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> [38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> >>
> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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> the
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> or approve the archiving of list messages.
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> >
> >
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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> > DeTomaso mailing list
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> >
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> etc.)
> use the links above.
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> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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> or approve the archiving of list messages.
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> _______________________________________________
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> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
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>
> <rebuild kit.jpg>
>
> <10si schematic.bmp>
>
> References
>
> 1. http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew
> 2. mailto:guson at home.se
> 3. mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
> 4. mailto:guson at home.se
> 5. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
> 6. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. mailto:guson at home.se
> 9. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
> 10. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 12. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
> 13. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 14. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 16. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 17. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 18. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 19. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 20. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 21. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 22. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 23. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 24. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 25. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 26. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 27. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> 28. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 29. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
> 30. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 31. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 32. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 33. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 34. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 35. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 36. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 37. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 41. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 43. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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>
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-------------- next part --------------
Wow, Is that a Sansui alternator. Looks like one of their IED washing
machines running.
That should equate to some problems.
jerry knotts
On 10/7/2016 7:51 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso wrote:
All,
Check this out. I have never bothered to look at the alternator while
the engine was running before, as it can only be seen from under the
car.
Today I put the car on the lift and had Lori start it up while I filmed
it:
[1][1]http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew
Look at how violently it's shaking! You can feel it throughout the
car--the engine was smooth on the dyno but there is a vibration now.
I haven't yet explored to see WHY it's shaking so much. I wonder if the
mounting bolt that came with the kit is the wrong diameter and the
alternator is loose even when it's tight?
I can easily imagine this kind of motion being responsible for the
problems we have been having, don't you?
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 7, 2016, at 0:29, "Tomas Gunnarsson" [2]<[2]guson at home.se> wrote:
The AC Delco 10si alternator has nine internal rectifier diodes, see
attached pics. The main six diode rectifier bridge is top middle. The
triple diode that powers the regulator is to the left of the ball
bearing. This triple diode is also what turns off the alternator lamp.
If you hook up a load between lamp terminal and ground this bridge will
provide power to the load, something it's not designed to do. The
result will be burnt out diodes in the diode trio and a loss of power
to the regulator which in turn leads to loss of alternator output. Like
you I think that the problem is the regulator but the question is why
it keeps breaking.
Tomas
<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
From: Guido deTomaso [[[3]3]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net]
Sent: 6/10/2016 6:01:07 PM
To: [[4]4]guson at home.se;[[5]5]tipo874 at gmail.com
Cc: [[6]6]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[[7]7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
I'm lost ... the rectifier diodes, typically six, each transit roughly
1/3 of the alternators output. Collectively they transmit all the
output power. Any loads added anywhere tax the diodes.
OTOH, certain cars I'm aware of run many loads through the lamp
circuit, bulb test in the example I'm familiar with, and some/many/most
alternator voltage regulators can't handle the current. These require
a special voltage regulator.
Unlikely the root cause of the problem at hand ... my money is on bad
regulator unfortunately inside the GM alternator not conveniently
remote mounted.
Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong.
GD
From: Tomas Gunnarsson [8]<[8]guson at home.se>
To: [[9]9]tipo874 at gmail.com
Cc: [[10]10]MikeLDrew at aol.com; [[11]11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
If the marginal connection is between battery and ammeter it will
fluctuate between zero and charge. If it's between alternator and
ammeter it will fluctuate between charge and discharge. Right Thomas?
Another thought: Have you by accident hooked anything up to the lamp
post on the alternator (or the wire going between post and dashboard
lamp) that's using significant power? That pin will provide power
when
running but the rectifier diodes inside will not be up for the task
and
burn out in short time. Just a thought as you've been going through
alternators at high pace. I'd like to disconnect the lamp wire from
the
alternator with the engine running and see what happens. Note that
the
sense wire will have to stay connected if you have one.
Tomas
<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
From: Thomas Toernblom [[[12]12]tipo874 at gmail.com]
Sent: 3/10/2016 9:49:41 PM
To: [[13]13]MikeLDrew at aol.com
Cc: [[14]14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
Check the fat wire from B+ (or what it is called on the alt) to the
ammeter. If there is a marginal connection there the voltage can
fluctuate wildly and possibly kill semiconductors in the alt.
> 3 okt. 2016 kl. 18:00 skrev Mike Drew via DeTomaso
[15]<[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>:
>
> All,
>
> Further to my original inquiry, I failed to mention that this is a
GM
alternator with built-in regulator, running in the stock three-wire
configuration. Normally it works normally--shows a somewhat strong
charge for a short time after engine start, coming back down to
slight
charge when battery is 'full' again, with slight discharge at idle
when
fans, lights etc are on.
>
> When it starts acting up, initially the needle bounces erratically
over a small range between slight charge and slight discharge. After
a
few minutes of that, it goes into greater discharge mode as it quits
completely.
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 3, 2016, at 8:15, "Himes, Terry (397C)"
[16]<[16]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>
>> Ditto. I put in 2 rebuilt units and they both failed. Finally
bought
>> a new one.
>> No problem since.
>>
>> "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
>>
>> stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
>>
>> Terry W. Himes
>>
>> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
>>
>> Dawn Spacecraft Team
>>
>> Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
>>
>> Phone: (818) 393-6261
>>
>> Cell: (818) 653-8213
>>
>> Fax: (818) 393-3147
>>
>> [1][[17]17]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>>
>> From: DeTomaso [18]<[2][18]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
on
behalf
>> of Julian Kift [19]<[3][19]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
>> Date: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:57 AM
>> To: [20]"[4][20]MikeLDrew at aol.com" [21]<[5][21]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
>> [22]"[6][22]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
>> [23]<[7][23]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
>>
>> Mike,
>> I hate chasing these type of electrical problems, but here's some
>> thoughts;
>> i) Battery going bad (how old is it?), requiring the alternator to
have
>> to constantly charge
>> ii) Some alternator re builders are notorious for units failing,
over a
>> 50% failure rate is not uncommon. I had a similar issue with my
GT40;
>> on the third alternator we switched to a higher amp 'new' unit and
>> never had a problem since.
>> iii) It could also be an intermittent short or bad ground
>> Julian
>> ________________________________
>> From: DeTomaso [24]<[8][24]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
on
behalf
>> of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
[25]<[9][25]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 9:11 PM
>> To: [10][[26]26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
>> Hi guys,
>> Just got home from a terrific weekend in the Sierra foothills; 24
>> Panteras
>> (of the 36 scheduled) took part in the Niello concours at Serrano.
It
>> heaved down with rain for a very brief period, but that rain then
>> turned to snow
>> which kept the large Reno/Tahoe contingent from braving the
summit.
>> Still, a great time was had by all who attended, and we drove home
in
>> splendid
>> sunshine.
>> We were driving in Lori's Pantera, which has a flat firewall kit
and
>> uses a
>> GM alternator with built-in regulator. She drove the car to Vegas
>> this
>> spring, and the alternator failed while we were there. At first it
>> started
>> acting erratic, with the amp needle bouncing around, and then
finally
>> it quit
>> and just showed a partial discharge. Testing at the battery
revealed
>> it
>> was doing nothing at that point. We replaced it with another one,
>> which did
>> exactly the same thing and failed about 50 miles from home.
>> We replaced THAT one, and the third one has worked fine until
today.
>> But
>> it probably only has about 250 miles on it or so. On the way home,
>> once
>> again, I noticed the ammeter needle behaving erratically, then it
quit
>> and
>> showed partial discharge for many miles, then briefly came back to
life
>> and
>> showed a very strong charge (since we had been running on battery
power
>> for
>> awhile), then discharged again.
>> Methinks the problem is not simply that alternators are failing,
but
>> rather
>> that there is some sort of fault in the electrical system. As
>> electrons
>> are far from my strong suit, I hesitate to start diving it to it
>> blindly.
>> What say all of you?
>> FWIW we've got a spare alternator we will be installing tomorrow,
which
>> almost assuredly will work just fine...for awhile anyway????
>> Mike
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. [27][27]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>> 2. [28][28]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>> 3. [29][29]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>> 4. [30][30]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>> 5. [31][31]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>> 6. [32][32]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 7. [33][33]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 8. [34][34]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>> 9. [35][35]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 10. [36][36]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [[37]37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [38][38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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DeTomaso mailing list
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To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[[43]43]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[44][44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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References
1. [45]http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew
2. [46]mailto:guson at home.se
3. [47]mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
4. [48]mailto:guson at home.se
5. [49]mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
6. [50]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
7. [51]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. [52]mailto:guson at home.se
9. [53]mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
10. [54]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
11. [55]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. [56]mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
13. [57]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
14. [58]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
15. [59]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. [60]mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
17. [61]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
18. [62]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
19. [63]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
20. [64]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
21. [65]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
22. [66]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
23. [67]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
24. [68]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
25. [69]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
26. [70]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
27. [71]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
28. [72]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
29. [73]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
30. [74]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
31. [75]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
32. [76]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
33. [77]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
34. [78]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
35. [79]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
36. [80]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
37. [81]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
38. [82]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
39. [83]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
40. [84]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
41. [85]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
42. [86]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
43. [87]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
44. [88]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[89]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[90]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the li
nks above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message p
osted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant
the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of lis
t messages.
References
1. http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew
2. mailto:[2]guson at home.se
3. mailto:3]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
4. mailto:4]guson at home.se
5. mailto:5]tipo874 at gmail.com
6. mailto:6]MikeLDrew at aol.com
7. mailto:7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:[8]guson at home.se
9. mailto:9]tipo874 at gmail.com
10. mailto:10]MikeLDrew at aol.com
11. mailto:11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:12]tipo874 at gmail.com
13. mailto:13]MikeLDrew at aol.com
14. mailto:14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
15. mailto:[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. mailto:[16]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
17. mailto:17]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
18. mailto:[2][18]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
19. mailto:[3][19]julian_kift at hotmail.com
20. mailto:[4][20]MikeLDrew at aol.com
21. mailto:[5][21]MikeLDrew at aol.com
22. mailto:[6][22]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
23. mailto:[7][23]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
24. mailto:[8][24]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
25. mailto:[9][25]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
26. mailto:26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
27. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
28. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
29. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
30. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
31. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
32. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
33. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
34. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
35. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
36. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
37. mailto:37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
39. mailto:39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
41. mailto:41]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
43. mailto:43]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
45. http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew
46. mailto:guson at home.se
47. mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
48. mailto:guson at home.se
49. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
50. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
51. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
52. mailto:guson at home.se
53. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
54. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
55. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
56. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
57. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
58. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
59. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
60. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
61. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
62. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
63. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
64. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
65. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
66. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
67. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
68. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
69. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
70. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
71. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
72. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
73. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
74. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
75. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
76. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
77. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
78. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
79. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
80. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
81. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
82. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
83. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
84. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
85. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
86. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
87. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
88. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
89. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
90. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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