[DeTomaso] Alternator blues....

Jerry Knotts knottsj at galstar.com
Fri Oct 7 21:05:08 EDT 2016


Wow,  Is that a Sansui alternator. Looks like one of their IED washing 
machines running.
That should equate to some problems.

jerry knotts


On 10/7/2016 7:51 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso wrote:
>     All,
>
>     Check this out. I have never bothered to look at the alternator while
>     the engine was running before, as it can only be seen from under the
>     car.
>
>     Today I put the car on the lift and had Lori start it up while I filmed
>     it:
>
>     [1]http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew
>
>     Look at how violently it's shaking! You can feel it throughout the
>     car--the engine was smooth on the dyno but there is a vibration now.
>
>     I haven't yet explored to see WHY it's shaking so much. I wonder if the
>     mounting bolt that came with the kit is the wrong diameter and the
>     alternator is loose even when it's tight?
>
>     I can easily imagine this kind of motion being responsible for the
>     problems we have been having, don't you?
>
>     Mike
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>     On Oct 7, 2016, at 0:29, "Tomas Gunnarsson" <[2]guson at home.se> wrote:
>
>     The AC Delco 10si alternator has nine internal rectifier diodes, see
>     attached pics. The main six diode rectifier bridge is top middle. The
>     triple diode that powers the regulator is to the left of the ball
>     bearing. This triple diode is also what turns off the alternator lamp.
>     If you hook up a load between lamp terminal and ground this bridge will
>     provide power to the load, something it's not designed to do. The
>     result will be burnt out diodes in the diode trio and a loss of power
>     to the regulator which in turn leads to loss of alternator output. Like
>     you I think that the problem is the regulator but the question is why
>     it keeps breaking.
>
>     Tomas
>     <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>         From: Guido deTomaso [[3]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net]
>     Sent: 6/10/2016 6:01:07 PM
>     To: [4]guson at home.se;[5]tipo874 at gmail.com
>     Cc: [6]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
>     I'm lost ... the rectifier diodes, typically six, each transit roughly
>     1/3 of the alternators output.  Collectively they transmit all the
>     output power.  Any loads added anywhere tax the diodes.
>     OTOH, certain cars I'm aware of run many loads through the lamp
>     circuit, bulb test in the example I'm familiar with, and some/many/most
>     alternator voltage regulators can't handle the current.  These require
>     a special voltage regulator.
>     Unlikely the root cause of the problem at hand ... my money is on bad
>     regulator unfortunately inside the GM alternator not conveniently
>     remote mounted.
>     Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong.
>     GD
>     From: Tomas Gunnarsson <[8]guson at home.se>
>     To: [9]tipo874 at gmail.com
>     Cc: [10]MikeLDrew at aol.com; [11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 11:55 PM
>     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
>       If the marginal connection is between battery and ammeter it will
>       fluctuate between zero and charge. If it's between alternator and
>       ammeter it will fluctuate between charge and discharge. Right Thomas?
>       Another thought: Have you by accident hooked anything up to the lamp
>       post on the alternator (or the wire going between post and dashboard
>       lamp) that's using significant power? That pin will provide power
>     when
>       running but the rectifier diodes inside will not be up for the task
>     and
>       burn out in short time. Just a thought as you've been going through
>       alternators at high pace. I'd like to disconnect the lamp wire from
>     the
>       alternator with the engine running and see what happens. Note that
>     the
>       sense wire will have to stay connected if you have one.
>       Tomas
>       <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>           From: Thomas Toernblom [[12]tipo874 at gmail.com]
>       Sent: 3/10/2016 9:49:41 PM
>       To: [13]MikeLDrew at aol.com
>       Cc: [14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>       Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
>       Check the fat wire from B+ (or what it is called on the alt) to the
>       ammeter. If there is a marginal connection there the voltage can
>       fluctuate wildly and possibly kill semiconductors in the alt.
>       > 3 okt. 2016 kl. 18:00 skrev Mike Drew via DeTomaso
>       <[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>:
>       >
>       > All,
>       >
>       > Further to my original inquiry, I failed to mention that this is a
>     GM
>       alternator with built-in regulator, running in the stock three-wire
>       configuration. Normally it works normally--shows a somewhat strong
>       charge for a short time after engine start, coming back down to
>     slight
>       charge when battery is 'full' again, with slight discharge at idle
>     when
>       fans, lights etc are on.
>       >
>       > When it starts acting up, initially the needle bounces erratically
>       over a small range between slight charge and slight discharge. After
>     a
>       few minutes of that, it goes into greater discharge mode as it quits
>       completely.
>       >
>       > Mike
>       >
>       > Sent from my iPhone
>       >
>       >> On Oct 3, 2016, at 8:15, "Himes, Terry (397C)"
>       <[16]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>       >>
>       >> Ditto. I put in 2 rebuilt units and they both failed. Finally
>     bought
>       >> a new one.
>       >> No problem since.
>       >>
>       >> "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
>       >>
>       >> stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
>       >>
>       >> Terry W. Himes
>       >>
>       >> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
>       >>
>       >> Dawn Spacecraft Team
>       >>
>       >> Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
>       >>
>       >> Phone: (818) 393-6261
>       >>
>       >> Cell: (818) 653-8213
>       >>
>       >> Fax: (818) 393-3147
>       >>
>       >> [1][17]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>       >>
>       >> From: DeTomaso <[2][18]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
>     on
>       behalf
>       >> of Julian Kift <[3][19]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
>       >> Date: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:57 AM
>       >> To: "[4][20]MikeLDrew at aol.com" <[5][21]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
>       >> "[6][22]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
>       >> <[7][23]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>       >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
>       >>
>       >> Mike,
>       >> I hate chasing these type of electrical problems, but here's some
>       >> thoughts;
>       >> i) Battery going bad (how old is it?), requiring the alternator to
>       have
>       >> to constantly charge
>       >> ii) Some alternator re builders are notorious for units failing,
>       over a
>       >> 50% failure rate is not uncommon. I had a similar issue with my
>       GT40;
>       >> on the third alternator we switched to a higher amp 'new' unit and
>       >> never had a problem since.
>       >> iii) It could also be an intermittent short or bad ground
>       >> Julian
>       >> ________________________________
>       >> From: DeTomaso <[8][24]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
>     on
>       behalf
>       >> of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
>     <[9][25]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>       >> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 9:11 PM
>       >> To: [10][26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>       >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
>       >> Hi guys,
>       >> Just got home from a terrific weekend in the Sierra foothills; 24
>       >> Panteras
>       >> (of the 36 scheduled) took part in the Niello concours at Serrano.
>       It
>       >> heaved down with rain for a very brief period, but that rain then
>       >> turned to snow
>       >> which kept the large Reno/Tahoe contingent from braving the
>     summit.
>       >> Still, a great time was had by all who attended, and we drove home
>       in
>       >> splendid
>       >> sunshine.
>       >> We were driving in Lori's Pantera, which has a flat firewall kit
>     and
>       >> uses a
>       >> GM alternator with built-in regulator. She drove the car to Vegas
>       >> this
>       >> spring, and the alternator failed while we were there. At first it
>       >> started
>       >> acting erratic, with the amp needle bouncing around, and then
>       finally
>       >> it quit
>       >> and just showed a partial discharge. Testing at the battery
>     revealed
>       >> it
>       >> was doing nothing at that point. We replaced it with another one,
>       >> which did
>       >> exactly the same thing and failed about 50 miles from home.
>       >> We replaced THAT one, and the third one has worked fine until
>     today.
>       >> But
>       >> it probably only has about 250 miles on it or so. On the way home,
>       >> once
>       >> again, I noticed the ammeter needle behaving erratically, then it
>       quit
>       >> and
>       >> showed partial discharge for many miles, then briefly came back to
>       life
>       >> and
>       >> showed a very strong charge (since we had been running on battery
>       power
>       >> for
>       >> awhile), then discharged again.
>       >> Methinks the problem is not simply that alternators are failing,
>     but
>       >> rather
>       >> that there is some sort of fault in the electrical system. As
>       >> electrons
>       >> are far from my strong suit, I hesitate to start diving it to it
>       >> blindly.
>       >> What say all of you?
>       >> FWIW we've got a spare alternator we will be installing tomorrow,
>       which
>       >> almost assuredly will work just fine...for awhile anyway????
>       >> Mike
>       >>
>       >> References
>       >>
>       >> 1. [27]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>       >> 2. [28]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>       >> 3. [29]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>       >> 4. [30]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>       >> 5. [31]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>       >> 6. [32]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>       >> 7. [33]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>       >> 8. [34]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>       >> 9. [35]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>       >> 10. [36]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>       >> _______________________________________________
>       >>
>       >>
>       >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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>     <rebuild kit.jpg>
>
>     <10si schematic.bmp>
>
> References
>
>     1. http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew
>     2. mailto:guson at home.se
>     3. mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
>     4. mailto:guson at home.se
>     5. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
>     6. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>     7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>     8. mailto:guson at home.se
>     9. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
>    10. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>    11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    12. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
>    13. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>    14. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    16. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
>    17. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>    18. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>    19. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>    20. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>    21. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>    22. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    23. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    24. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>    25. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    26. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    27. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>    28. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>    29. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
>    30. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>    31. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>    32. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    33. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    34. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
>    35. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    36. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    37. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>    39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>    41. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>    43. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>    44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
   Wow,  Is that a Sansui alternator.  Looks like one of their IED washing
   machines running.
   That should equate to some problems.
   jerry knotts
   On 10/7/2016 7:51 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso wrote:

   All,

   Check this out. I have never bothered to look at the alternator while
   the engine was running before, as it can only be seen from under the
   car.

   Today I put the car on the lift and had Lori start it up while I filmed
   it:

   [1][1]http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew

   Look at how violently it's shaking! You can feel it throughout the
   car--the engine was smooth on the dyno but there is a vibration now.

   I haven't yet explored to see WHY it's shaking so much. I wonder if the
   mounting bolt that came with the kit is the wrong diameter and the
   alternator is loose even when it's tight?

   I can easily imagine this kind of motion being responsible for the
   problems we have been having, don't you?

   Mike
   Sent from my iPhone

   On Oct 7, 2016, at 0:29, "Tomas Gunnarsson" [2]<[2]guson at home.se> wrote:

   The AC Delco 10si alternator has nine internal rectifier diodes, see
   attached pics. The main six diode rectifier bridge is top middle. The
   triple diode that powers the regulator is to the left of the ball
   bearing. This triple diode is also what turns off the alternator lamp.
   If you hook up a load between lamp terminal and ground this bridge will
   provide power to the load, something it's not designed to do. The
   result will be burnt out diodes in the diode trio and a loss of power
   to the regulator which in turn leads to loss of alternator output. Like
   you I think that the problem is the regulator but the question is why
   it keeps breaking.

   Tomas
   <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
       From: Guido deTomaso [[[3]3]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net]
   Sent: 6/10/2016 6:01:07 PM
   To: [[4]4]guson at home.se;[[5]5]tipo874 at gmail.com
   Cc: [[6]6]MikeLDrew at aol.com;[[7]7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
   I'm lost ... the rectifier diodes, typically six, each transit roughly
   1/3 of the alternators output.  Collectively they transmit all the
   output power.  Any loads added anywhere tax the diodes.
   OTOH, certain cars I'm aware of run many loads through the lamp
   circuit, bulb test in the example I'm familiar with, and some/many/most
   alternator voltage regulators can't handle the current.  These require
   a special voltage regulator.
   Unlikely the root cause of the problem at hand ... my money is on bad
   regulator unfortunately inside the GM alternator not conveniently
   remote mounted.
   Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong.
   GD
   From: Tomas Gunnarsson [8]<[8]guson at home.se>
   To: [[9]9]tipo874 at gmail.com
   Cc: [[10]10]MikeLDrew at aol.com; [[11]11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 11:55 PM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
     If the marginal connection is between battery and ammeter it will
     fluctuate between zero and charge. If it's between alternator and
     ammeter it will fluctuate between charge and discharge. Right Thomas?
     Another thought: Have you by accident hooked anything up to the lamp
     post on the alternator (or the wire going between post and dashboard
     lamp) that's using significant power? That pin will provide power
   when
     running but the rectifier diodes inside will not be up for the task
   and
     burn out in short time. Just a thought as you've been going through
     alternators at high pace. I'd like to disconnect the lamp wire from
   the
     alternator with the engine running and see what happens. Note that
   the
     sense wire will have to stay connected if you have one.
     Tomas
     <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
         From: Thomas Toernblom [[[12]12]tipo874 at gmail.com]
     Sent: 3/10/2016 9:49:41 PM
     To: [[13]13]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     Cc: [[14]14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
     Check the fat wire from B+ (or what it is called on the alt) to the
     ammeter. If there is a marginal connection there the voltage can
     fluctuate wildly and possibly kill semiconductors in the alt.
     > 3 okt. 2016 kl. 18:00 skrev Mike Drew via DeTomaso
     [15]<[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>:
     >
     > All,
     >
     > Further to my original inquiry, I failed to mention that this is a
   GM
     alternator with built-in regulator, running in the stock three-wire
     configuration. Normally it works normally--shows a somewhat strong
     charge for a short time after engine start, coming back down to
   slight
     charge when battery is 'full' again, with slight discharge at idle
   when
     fans, lights etc are on.
     >
     > When it starts acting up, initially the needle bounces erratically
     over a small range between slight charge and slight discharge. After
   a
     few minutes of that, it goes into greater discharge mode as it quits
     completely.
     >
     > Mike
     >
     > Sent from my iPhone
     >
     >> On Oct 3, 2016, at 8:15, "Himes, Terry (397C)"
     [16]<[16]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
     >>
     >> Ditto. I put in 2 rebuilt units and they both failed. Finally
   bought
     >> a new one.
     >> No problem since.
     >>
     >> "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
     >>
     >> stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
     >>
     >> Terry W. Himes
     >>
     >> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
     >>
     >> Dawn Spacecraft Team
     >>
     >> Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
     >>
     >> Phone: (818) 393-6261
     >>
     >> Cell: (818) 653-8213
     >>
     >> Fax: (818) 393-3147
     >>
     >> [1][[17]17]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
     >>
     >> From: DeTomaso [18]<[2][18]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
   on
     behalf
     >> of Julian Kift [19]<[3][19]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
     >> Date: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:57 AM
     >> To: [20]"[4][20]MikeLDrew at aol.com" [21]<[5][21]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
     >> [22]"[6][22]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
     >> [23]<[7][23]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
     >>
     >> Mike,
     >> I hate chasing these type of electrical problems, but here's some
     >> thoughts;
     >> i) Battery going bad (how old is it?), requiring the alternator to
     have
     >> to constantly charge
     >> ii) Some alternator re builders are notorious for units failing,
     over a
     >> 50% failure rate is not uncommon. I had a similar issue with my
     GT40;
     >> on the third alternator we switched to a higher amp 'new' unit and
     >> never had a problem since.
     >> iii) It could also be an intermittent short or bad ground
     >> Julian
     >> ________________________________
     >> From: DeTomaso [24]<[8][24]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
   on
     behalf
     >> of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
   [25]<[9][25]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
     >> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 9:11 PM
     >> To: [10][[26]26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Alternator blues....
     >> Hi guys,
     >> Just got home from a terrific weekend in the Sierra foothills; 24
     >> Panteras
     >> (of the 36 scheduled) took part in the Niello concours at Serrano.
     It
     >> heaved down with rain for a very brief period, but that rain then
     >> turned to snow
     >> which kept the large Reno/Tahoe contingent from braving the
   summit.
     >> Still, a great time was had by all who attended, and we drove home
     in
     >> splendid
     >> sunshine.
     >> We were driving in Lori's Pantera, which has a flat firewall kit
   and
     >> uses a
     >> GM alternator with built-in regulator. She drove the car to Vegas
     >> this
     >> spring, and the alternator failed while we were there. At first it
     >> started
     >> acting erratic, with the amp needle bouncing around, and then
     finally
     >> it quit
     >> and just showed a partial discharge. Testing at the battery
   revealed
     >> it
     >> was doing nothing at that point. We replaced it with another one,
     >> which did
     >> exactly the same thing and failed about 50 miles from home.
     >> We replaced THAT one, and the third one has worked fine until
   today.
     >> But
     >> it probably only has about 250 miles on it or so. On the way home,
     >> once
     >> again, I noticed the ammeter needle behaving erratically, then it
     quit
     >> and
     >> showed partial discharge for many miles, then briefly came back to
     life
     >> and
     >> showed a very strong charge (since we had been running on battery
     power
     >> for
     >> awhile), then discharged again.
     >> Methinks the problem is not simply that alternators are failing,
   but
     >> rather
     >> that there is some sort of fault in the electrical system. As
     >> electrons
     >> are far from my strong suit, I hesitate to start diving it to it
     >> blindly.
     >> What say all of you?
     >> FWIW we've got a spare alternator we will be installing tomorrow,
     which
     >> almost assuredly will work just fine...for awhile anyway????
     >> Mike
     >>
     >> References
     >>
     >> 1. [27][27]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
     >> 2. [28][28]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     >> 3. [29][29]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
     >> 4. [30][30]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
     >> 5. [31][31]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
     >> 6. [32][32]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >> 7. [33][33]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >> 8. [34][34]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
     >> 9. [35][35]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >> 10. [36][36]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >> _______________________________________________
     >>
     >>
     >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     >> DeTomaso mailing list
     >> [[37]37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     >> [38][38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >>
     >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
     etc.) use the links above.
     >>
     >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
     any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
   the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     > _______________________________________________
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     >
     > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing list
     > [[39]39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     > [40][40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
     use the links above.
     >
     > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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   the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     _______________________________________________
     Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
     Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     DeTomaso mailing list
     [[41]41]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
     [42][42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
     use the links above.
     Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
   any
     message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
     list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   archive
     or approve the archiving of list messages.
     .
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [[43]43]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [44][44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.

   <rebuild kit.jpg>

   <10si schematic.bmp>

References

   1. [45]http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew
   2. [46]mailto:guson at home.se
   3. [47]mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
   4. [48]mailto:guson at home.se
   5. [49]mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
   6. [50]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   7. [51]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   8. [52]mailto:guson at home.se
   9. [53]mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
  10. [54]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  11. [55]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  12. [56]mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
  13. [57]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  14. [58]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  15. [59]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  16. [60]mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
  17. [61]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
  18. [62]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  19. [63]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  20. [64]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  21. [65]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  22. [66]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  23. [67]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  24. [68]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  25. [69]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  26. [70]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  27. [71]mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
  28. [72]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  29. [73]mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  30. [74]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  31. [75]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  32. [76]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  33. [77]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  34. [78]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  35. [79]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  36. [80]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  37. [81]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  38. [82]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  39. [83]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  40. [84]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  41. [85]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  42. [86]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  43. [87]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  44. [88]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


_______________________________________________


Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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[89]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[90]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the li
nks above.

Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message p
osted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant
the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of lis
t messages.

References

   1. http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew
   2. mailto:[2]guson at home.se
   3. mailto:3]guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
   4. mailto:4]guson at home.se
   5. mailto:5]tipo874 at gmail.com
   6. mailto:6]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   7. mailto:7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   8. mailto:[8]guson at home.se
   9. mailto:9]tipo874 at gmail.com
  10. mailto:10]MikeLDrew at aol.com
  11. mailto:11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  12. mailto:12]tipo874 at gmail.com
  13. mailto:13]MikeLDrew at aol.com
  14. mailto:14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  15. mailto:[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  16. mailto:[16]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
  17. mailto:17]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
  18. mailto:[2][18]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  19. mailto:[3][19]julian_kift at hotmail.com
  20. mailto:[4][20]MikeLDrew at aol.com
  21. mailto:[5][21]MikeLDrew at aol.com
  22. mailto:[6][22]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  23. mailto:[7][23]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  24. mailto:[8][24]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  25. mailto:[9][25]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  26. mailto:26]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  27. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
  28. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  29. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  30. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  31. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  32. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  33. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  34. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  35. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  36. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  37. mailto:37]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  39. mailto:39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  41. mailto:41]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  43. mailto:43]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  45. http://youtu.be/05CddX-lbew
  46. mailto:guson at home.se
  47. mailto:guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
  48. mailto:guson at home.se
  49. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
  50. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  51. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  52. mailto:guson at home.se
  53. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
  54. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  55. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  56. mailto:tipo874 at gmail.com
  57. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  58. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  59. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  60. mailto:terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
  61. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
  62. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  63. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  64. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  65. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  66. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  67. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  68. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  69. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  70. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  71. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
  72. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  73. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
  74. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  75. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  76. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  77. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  78. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  79. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  80. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  81. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  82. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  83. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  84. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  85. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  86. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  87. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  88. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  89. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  90. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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