[DeTomaso] carbon fiber doors

Ken Green kenn_green at yahoo.com
Mon Nov 28 15:08:56 EST 2016


I didn't think fiberglass saved much weight?
The 20 pound deck Lilo Ben Zicron made for me is not perfect, but I think good enough for a non-show car.  I don't think there are any shrinkage issues, but the curvature of the edges is a little off at the centers.  It is made of a material Lilo developed, not CF.
Ken

      From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
 To: Roland <willibillie at live.de> 
Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
 Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 11:29 AM
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] carbon fiber doors
   
Roland,

Amen!!!

True carbon fiber, as used by race car teams and OEMs is a very, very expensive process. Many of the 'carbon fiber' Pantera parts I've seen were simply fiberglass with a layer of carbon fiber cloth on top to give it that CF look. 

The tooling and production costs to make true CF Pantera parts properly (using an autoclave) would result in $25,000 decklids. It ain't gonna happen. 

If you want light weight parts, fiberglass is an option....

Mike


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 28, 2016, at 11:11, Roland <willibillie at live.de> wrote:

> I had send after the first decklid from JPC didn't fit, my decklid to 
> them to take a mould from. I bought two decklids made from my decklid 
> mould. None of them fittet right. Also the hinges where badly secured. 
> Many of you whatched when the blue Dr.Joergens Pantera at LeMans lost 
> its decklid. It was one of them...
> 
> Carbon fiber is shrinking while drying. If you don't have an Autoclave 
> for it, it will be junk for sure. I talked to Mr.Pagani years ago about 
> his carbon parts. He told me, it has cost him a fortune to find the 
> right way to make the parts right to fit.
> 
> If you want to save weight in your Pantera start at the Gym, that will 
> be the most effektive and cheapest way..
> 
> Roland
> 
> 
> Am 28.11.2016 um 08:09 schrieb gudmund frøland via DeTomaso:
>> I can also confirm these cars are Absolut not identical al? I had an accident and insurance company just ordered a new door from USA. Came to Norway air fright. When it came to the body shop they sanded and primed it prior to install. When installed they was wandering what kind of door this was? It was way of and they had to repair the damaged door. The new one is just sitting in my garage. It was so expensive I thought it was too much just throw away. No Wonder Carbon fiber doors dosent fit :)
>> 
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------
>> Den man 2016-11-28 skrev mark skwarek via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>:
>> 
>>  Emne: Re: [DeTomaso] carbon fiber doors
>>  Til: "Asa Jay Laughton" <asajay at asajay.com>, "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>  Dato: Mandag 28. november 2016 02.10
>> 
>>    Personally
>>  I would  prefer to get my doors unassembled. (Skin &
>>  frame)
>>    This would make it much
>>  easier to get a proper fit.
>>    Mark
>>    On Sunday, November 27, 2016 7:24
>>  PM, Asa Jay Laughton
>>    <asajay at asajay.com>
>>  wrote:
>>      Don't forget
>>  that the Pantera is a hand-built car.  Doors are no
>>      exception to the rule that
>>  every part was hand-fit to the car.  Most
>>      likely, the mold made from any
>>  particular door, will still need
>> 
>>    massaging to the actual car it will be mounted
>>  on.  Just be aware of
>> 
>>    that.
>>      The
>>  carbon fiber hoods sold by some Pantera vendors are close,
>>  but
>>    will
>> 
>>    need to be hand-fit.  They typically let you
>>  know that ahead of time.
>> 
>>    Asa  Jay
>>    Asa
>>  Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>    & Shelley Marie
>>    Spokane, WA
>>    ******************************
>>    [1][1]http://w7tsc.org
>>    [2][2]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>      On 11/27/2016 3:08 PM,
>>  [3][3]goodwinpantera at comcast.net
>>  wrote:
>>      Found a company in
>>  Tacoma, Washington that makes carbon fiber hoods,
>>      decklids, and doors but he
>>  would need to keep your door to make a
>> 
>>    mold.We would be willing to take on molds for
>>  such a car, but keep in
>> 
>>    mind there are a few factors working against
>>  you here. First, our
>>    doors
>>      do not have any side impact
>>  protection. Therefore, they are not
>> 
>>    suitable for street use without a roll cage.
>>  Second, we would need
>>      parts
>>  in pristine condition to make molds from. They would not
>>  be
>>      returned to you once the
>>  molds have been made. We own the molds, and
>>    we
>> 
>>    keep the parts we make the molds from so we
>>  can back check the molds
>>    if
>>      there is ever a question of
>>  the mold warping or twisting. Third, to
>>    do
>> 
>>    any parts, we would require a deposit
>>  equivalent to the full purchase
>> 
>>    price of five parts, in advance, before any
>>  work is begun.
>>      The good
>>  news, is that we do not require any charge for the
>>  creation
>>    of
>> 
>>    the molds when five parts are purchased in
>>  advance. The lead time is
>> 
>>    3-4 months for a set of doors and 2-3 months
>>  for a deck lid or hood.
>> 
>>    Greg Shampine
>> 
>>    Ultra-Carbon
>> 
>>    253-906-8126
>> 
>>    I wonder if POCA members want to form a list
>>  then they should contact
>> 
>>    this fellow. My doors are full of rust and
>>  would need new door skins
>> 
>>    welded on.
>>    _______________________________________________
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>>    11/27/16
>>    References
>> 
>>    1. [6]http://w7tsc.org/
>> 
>>    2. [7]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
>>      3. mailto:[8]goodwinpantera at comcast.net
>>      4. mailto:[9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>      5. [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>      6. [11]http://www.avg.com/
>>    _______________________________________________
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>>  References
>> 
>>    1. http://w7tsc.org/
>>    2. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
>>    3. mailto:goodwinpantera at comcast.net
>>    4. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>    5. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>    6. http://w7tsc.org/
>>    7. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
>>    8. mailto:goodwinpantera at comcast.net
>>    9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>    10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>    11. http://www.avg.com/
>> 
>>  12. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 
>>  13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> 
>>  -----Integrert vedlegg følger-----
>> 
>>  _______________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>>  Detomaso
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-------------- next part --------------
   I didn't think fiberglass saved much weight?
   The 20 pound deck Lilo Ben Zicron made for me is not perfect, but I
   think good enough for a non-show car.  I don't think there are any
   shrinkage issues, but the curvature of the edges is a little off at the
   centers.  It is made of a material Lilo developed, not CF.
   Ken
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   To: Roland <willibillie at live.de>
   Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
   <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 11:29 AM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] carbon fiber doors
   Roland,
   Amen!!!
   True carbon fiber, as used by race car teams and OEMs is a very, very
   expensive process. Many of the 'carbon fiber' Pantera parts I've seen
   were simply fiberglass with a layer of carbon fiber cloth on top to
   give it that CF look.
   The tooling and production costs to make true CF Pantera parts properly
   (using an autoclave) would result in $25,000 decklids. It ain't gonna
   happen.
   If you want light weight parts, fiberglass is an option....
   Mike
   Sent from my iPhone
   On Nov 28, 2016, at 11:11, Roland <[1]willibillie at live.de> wrote:
   > I had send after the first decklid from JPC didn't fit, my decklid to
   > them to take a mould from. I bought two decklids made from my decklid
   > mould. None of them fittet right. Also the hinges where badly
   secured.
   > Many of you whatched when the blue Dr.Joergens Pantera at LeMans lost
   > its decklid. It was one of them...
   >
   > Carbon fiber is shrinking while drying. If you don't have an
   Autoclave
   > for it, it will be junk for sure. I talked to Mr.Pagani years ago
   about
   > his carbon parts. He told me, it has cost him a fortune to find the
   > right way to make the parts right to fit.
   >
   > If you want to save weight in your Pantera start at the Gym, that
   will
   > be the most effektive and cheapest way..
   >
   > Roland
   >
   >
   > Am 28.11.2016 um 08:09 schrieb gudmund frA,land via DeTomaso:
   >> I can also confirm these cars are Absolut not identical al? I had an
   accident and insurance company just ordered a new door from USA. Came
   to Norway air fright. When it came to the body shop they sanded and
   primed it prior to install. When installed they was wandering what kind
   of door this was? It was way of and they had to repair the damaged
   door. The new one is just sitting in my garage. It was so expensive I
   thought it was too much just throw away. No Wonder Carbon fiber doors
   dosent fit :)
   >>
   >>
   >> --------------------------------------------
   >> Den man 2016-11-28 skrev mark skwarek via DeTomaso
   <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>:
   >>
   >>  Emne: Re: [DeTomaso] carbon fiber doors
   >>  Til: "Asa Jay Laughton" <[3]asajay at asajay.com>,
   "[4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
   <[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   >>  Dato: Mandag 28. november 2016 02.10
   >>
   >>    Personally
   >>  I would  prefer to get my doors unassembled. (Skin &
   >>  frame)
   >>    This would make it much
   >>  easier to get a proper fit.
   >>    Mark
   >>    On Sunday, November 27, 2016 7:24
   >>  PM, Asa Jay Laughton
   >>    <[6]asajay at asajay.com>
   >>  wrote:
   >>      Don't forget
   >>  that the Pantera is a hand-built car.  Doors are no
   >>      exception to the rule that
   >>  every part was hand-fit to the car.  Most
   >>      likely, the mold made from any
   >>  particular door, will still need
   >>
   >>    massaging to the actual car it will be mounted
   >>  on.  Just be aware of
   >>
   >>    that.
   >>      The
   >>  carbon fiber hoods sold by some Pantera vendors are close,
   >>  but
   >>    will
   >>
   >>    need to be hand-fit.  They typically let you
   >>  know that ahead of time.
   >>
   >>    Asa  Jay
   >>    Asa
   >>  Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
   >>    & Shelley Marie
   >>    Spokane, WA
   >>    ******************************
   >>    [1][1][7]http://w7tsc.org
   >>    [2][2][8]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   >>      On 11/27/2016 3:08 PM,
   >>  [3][3][9]goodwinpantera at comcast.net
   >>  wrote:
   >>      Found a company in
   >>  Tacoma, Washington that makes carbon fiber hoods,
   >>      decklids, and doors but he
   >>  would need to keep your door to make a
   >>
   >>    mold.We would be willing to take on molds for
   >>  such a car, but keep in
   >>
   >>    mind there are a few factors working against
   >>  you here. First, our
   >>    doors
   >>      do not have any side impact
   >>  protection. Therefore, they are not
   >>
   >>    suitable for street use without a roll cage.
   >>  Second, we would need
   >>      parts
   >>  in pristine condition to make molds from. They would not
   >>  be
   >>      returned to you once the
   >>  molds have been made. We own the molds, and
   >>    we
   >>
   >>    keep the parts we make the molds from so we
   >>  can back check the molds
   >>    if
   >>      there is ever a question of
   >>  the mold warping or twisting. Third, to
   >>    do
   >>
   >>    any parts, we would require a deposit
   >>  equivalent to the full purchase
   >>
   >>    price of five parts, in advance, before any
   >>  work is begun.
   >>      The good
   >>  news, is that we do not require any charge for the
   >>  creation
   >>    of
   >>
   >>    the molds when five parts are purchased in
   >>  advance. The lead time is
   >>
   >>    3-4 months for a set of doors and 2-3 months
   >>  for a deck lid or hood.
   >>
   >>    Greg Shampine
   >>
   >>    Ultra-Carbon
   >>
   >>    253-906-8126
   >>
   >>    I wonder if POCA members want to form a list
   >>  then they should contact
   >>
   >>    this fellow. My doors are full of rust and
   >>  would need new door skins
   >>
   >>    welded on.
   >>    _______________________________________________
   >>    Detomaso Email List is not
   >>  managed by POCA
   >>    Posted emails
   >>  must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >>    DeTomaso mailing list
   >>    [4][4][10]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >>
   [5][5][11]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >>    To manage your subscription
   >>  (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   >>    use the li
   >>    nks above.
   >>    Members who post to this list
   >>  grant license to the list to forward any
   >>    message p
   >>    osted here to all past, current,
   >>  or future members of the list. They
   >>    also grant
   >>    the list owner permission to
   >>  maintain an archive or approve the
   >>    archiving of lis
   >>    t messages.
   >>    -----
   >>    No virus found in this
   >>  message.
   >>    Checked by AVG -
   >>  [6]www.avg.com
   >>    Version:
   >>  2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4664/13487 - Release Date:
   >>    11/27/16
   >>    References
   >>
   >>    1. [6][12]http://w7tsc.org/
   >>
   >>    2. [7][13]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
   >>      3. mailto:[8][14]goodwinpantera at comcast.net
   >>      4. mailto:[9][15]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >>      5.
   [10][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >>      6. [11][17]http://www.avg.com/
   >>    _______________________________________________
   >>    Detomaso Email List is not
   >>  managed by POCA
   >>    Posted emails
   >>  must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   >>    DeTomaso mailing list
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   >>  (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   >>    use the links above.
   >>    Members who post to this list
   >>  grant license to the list to forward any
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   >>  current, or future members of the
   >>    list. They also grant the list
   >>  owner permission to maintain an archive
   >>    or approve the archiving of list
   >>  messages.
   >>
   >>  References
   >>
   >>    1. [20]http://w7tsc.org/
   >>    2. [21]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
   >>    3. mailto:[22]goodwinpantera at comcast.net
   >>    4. mailto:[23]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >>    5. [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >>    6. [25]http://w7tsc.org/
   >>    7. [26]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
   >>    8. mailto:[27]goodwinpantera at comcast.net
   >>    9. mailto:[28]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >>    10. [29]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >>    11. [30]http://www.avg.com/
   >>
   >>  12. mailto:[31]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >>
   >>  13. [32]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >>
   >>  -----Integrert vedlegg fA,lger-----
   >>
   >>  _______________________________________________
   >>
   >>
   >>  Detomaso
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   >>  emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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   >>  Members who post to
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References

   1. mailto:willibillie at live.de
   2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   3. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   6. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
   7. http://w7tsc.org/
   8. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
   9. mailto:goodwinpantera at comcast.net
  10. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  11. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  12. http://w7tsc.org/
  13. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  14. mailto:goodwinpantera at comcast.net
  15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  17. http://www.avg.com/
  18. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  19. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  20. http://w7tsc.org/
  21. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  22. mailto:goodwinpantera at comcast.net
  23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  25. http://w7tsc.org/
  26. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  27. mailto:goodwinpantera at comcast.net
  28. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  29. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  30. http://www.avg.com/
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