[DeTomaso] Data for K&N filters

[Ken Green]

You probably have to factor in  your maintenance habits.  If you buy a new paper filter once a month versus cleaning a K&N filter once a year you may get one result.  If you buy a new paper filter once a year versus cleaning a K&N filter once a year you may get another result.  

      From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
 To: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>; Detomaso Email List <detomaso at detomasolist.com> 
 Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 9:13 AM
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Data for K&N filters
   
  Charlie,

  It is almost an impossible task to find unbiased data, ask any
  statistician they make a living at it!

  Getting more air in the engine = more HP right? So if K&N filters are
  higher air flow through a coarser mesh then science says there must be
  a corresponding HP increase!  That said I have yet to find a before and
  after dyno test with a stock, alternative or K&N filter that proves
  such, however there are many web comments  attesting that the decal K&N
  supply is good for 5HP alone.....

  So why is there no clear evidence? Well it is probably because a stock
  air filter is not a restriction to getting air into the engine,
  car manufacturers simply don't design that way, that is unless you run
  NASCAR restrictor plate series! If the engine is getting enough air
  already (and maintaining ideal Air to Fuel Ratio) what difference does
  providing access to more air (at constant pressure) make? None, you can
  pick a nice day remove your air filter and go for a test drive and this
  is the ultimate unrestricted air filter.......

  But now you are not 'filtering' anything, so the K&N overcomes this
  with a light coating of oil on the coarse mesh to theoretically catch
  dust. Simple physics says there is higher probability that at least a
  portion of the dust will find a clear path to the intake without being
  impeded by the mesh or oil. However, as you can attest at least a good
  portion of dust remains on the outside of the filter! How much
  the passing dust impacts engine life is the big unknown, but assuming
  you had enough air getting to the engine with your stock filter anyway
  you are now just adding contaminants to your air/fuel mixture.

  If we also think about the dirt/dust increased
  inflow in specific relation to a Pantera application we know that the
  engine bay is a vacuum for road dirt from under the car so with
  higher dust loading in the air I'd expect even more dirt sees its way
  into the engine. In addition, comparing a stock filter assembly to
  aftermarket, in the latter you also typically have an exposed filter
  element sandwiched between an upper and lower plate with a much greater
  surface area exposed to that dirt than a stock style snorkel air filter
  would have.

  If you do find your engine is starving for air at higher rpms and
  you really need more volume then why not just increase the surface area
  of the stock style air filter? i.e. use a bigger filter. If you
  really want to increase HP then provide denser air i.e. colder or
  higher pressure. The moral of the story is throw the K&N filter away
  and get a blower/intercooler, but wait then you might need a high flow
  air filter to pass all that extra air...

  Personally I just have to drive over to CA and the elevation difference
  alone will give me 15% more power for the cost of a tank of gas! And
  yes it is very noticeable from my unbiased and highly tuned seat of the
  pants, relaying to my Adrenalin meter!

  Julian
    __________________________________________________________________

  From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
  Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
  Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 7:06 AM
  To: Detomaso Email List
  Subject: [DeTomaso] Data for K&N filters

  After cleaning my filter last week, I got to wondering. Several people
  on
  the list have heard anecdotal evidence that the K&N's aren't such a
  good
  idea. Comments received include:

  "My friend's mechanic said to get rid of it."
  "If it's properly oiled, it's too restrictive. If it isn't properly
  oiled,
  it doesn't filter properly and lets junk through"

  Is anyone aware of a dyno test to indicate if any power is actually
  gained
  by using one? Or lost?

  On the K&N webpage they have a guy who drove a million miles in his
  truck
  with a K&N, but are there scientific studies with controls to indicate
  the
  comparative engine wear between filter types?

  Maybe it's a byproduct of Facebook during the election campaign, but I
  don't
  believe anything I read without seeing unbiased data. Thanks!

_______________________________________________


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-------------- next part --------------
   You probably have to factor in  your maintenance habits.  If you buy a
   new paper filter once a month versus cleaning a K&N filter once a year
   you may get one result.  If you buy a new paper filter once a year
   versus cleaning a K&N filter once a year you may get another result.
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   To: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>; Detomaso Email List
   <detomaso at detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 9:13 AM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Data for K&N filters
     Charlie,
     It is almost an impossible task to find unbiased data, ask any
     statistician they make a living at it!
     Getting more air in the engine = more HP right? So if K&N filters are
     higher air flow through a coarser mesh then science says there must
   be
     a corresponding HP increase!  That said I have yet to find a before
   and
     after dyno test with a stock, alternative or K&N filter that proves
     such, however there are many web comments  attesting that the decal
   K&N
     supply is good for 5HP alone.....
     So why is there no clear evidence? Well it is probably because a
   stock
     air filter is not a restriction to getting air into the engine,
     car manufacturers simply don't design that way, that is unless you
   run
     NASCAR restrictor plate series! If the engine is getting enough air
     already (and maintaining ideal Air to Fuel Ratio) what difference
   does
     providing access to more air (at constant pressure) make? None, you
   can
     pick a nice day remove your air filter and go for a test drive and
   this
     is the ultimate unrestricted air filter.......
     But now you are not 'filtering' anything, so the K&N overcomes this
     with a light coating of oil on the coarse mesh to theoretically catch
     dust. Simple physics says there is higher probability that at least a
     portion of the dust will find a clear path to the intake without
   being
     impeded by the mesh or oil. However, as you can attest at least a
   good
     portion of dust remains on the outside of the filter! How much
     the passing dust impacts engine life is the big unknown, but assuming
     you had enough air getting to the engine with your stock filter
   anyway
     you are now just adding contaminants to your air/fuel mixture.
     If we also think about the dirt/dust increased
     inflow in specific relation to a Pantera application we know that the
     engine bay is a vacuum for road dirt from under the car so with
     higher dust loading in the air I'd expect even more dirt sees its way
     into the engine. In addition, comparing a stock filter assembly to
     aftermarket, in the latter you also typically have an exposed filter
     element sandwiched between an upper and lower plate with a much
   greater
     surface area exposed to that dirt than a stock style snorkel air
   filter
     would have.
     If you do find your engine is starving for air at higher rpms and
     you really need more volume then why not just increase the surface
   area
     of the stock style air filter? i.e. use a bigger filter. If you
     really want to increase HP then provide denser air i.e. colder or
     higher pressure. The moral of the story is throw the K&N filter away
     and get a blower/intercooler, but wait then you might need a high
   flow
     air filter to pass all that extra air...
     Personally I just have to drive over to CA and the elevation
   difference
     alone will give me 15% more power for the cost of a tank of gas! And
     yes it is very noticeable from my unbiased and highly tuned seat of
   the
     pants, relaying to my Adrenalin meter!
     Julian
       __________________________________________________________________
     From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
   behalf of
     Charles McCall <[2]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
     Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 7:06 AM
     To: Detomaso Email List
     Subject: [DeTomaso] Data for K&N filters
     After cleaning my filter last week, I got to wondering. Several
   people
     on
     the list have heard anecdotal evidence that the K&N's aren't such a
     good
     idea. Comments received include:
     "My friend's mechanic said to get rid of it."
     "If it's properly oiled, it's too restrictive. If it isn't properly
     oiled,
     it doesn't filter properly and lets junk through"
     Is anyone aware of a dyno test to indicate if any power is actually
     gained
     by using one? Or lost?
     On the K&N webpage they have a guy who drove a million miles in his
     truck
     with a K&N, but are there scientific studies with controls to
   indicate
     the
     comparative engine wear between filter types?
     Maybe it's a byproduct of Facebook during the election campaign, but
   I
     don't
     believe anything I read without seeing unbiased data. Thanks!
   _______________________________________________
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References

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