[DeTomaso] Engine help needed - I've got gas! (or my car does....)

Roland willibillie at live.de
Mon Nov 14 13:37:00 EST 2016


We had an university study about these filters years ago. The result was basicly, with oil these filters drain less air than a paper filter and w/o oil they drain more dirt than paper filters. Reminds me on a comment of the German DeTomaso Importer, when i asked him about Group 3 motors that where absolute bone stock Clevelands:

Ha, when the wallet is empty the feeling of speed is much better !

Am 14.11.2016 um 16:18 schrieb Richard Greenblum:

   I may get slammed for this, but here goes anyway.  A long time ago I
   bought into the K&N thing and put them on my daily driver and Pantera.
    Never noticed any difference in performance or milage with either car.
    When my K&N rejuvenation kit ran out of spray, after years of washing
   and re-oiling, I asked a friend of mine who owns a shop and used to be
   an IMSA car crew chief about them.  He said stop screwing with it,
   you're better off with a quality paper filter.

   Richard

   Austin, TX

   From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com><mailto:[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
   of Mike Reilly <[2]reillyms at live.com><mailto:[2]reillyms at live.com>
   Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016 at 14:05
   To: marshallgsmith <[3]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net><mailto:[3]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>, MikeDrew
   <[4]MikeLDrew at aol.com><mailto:[4]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, Charles McCall <[5]charlesmccall at gmail.com><mailto:[5]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   Cc: "<[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com><mailto:[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>"
   <[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com><mailto:[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine help needed - I've got gas! (or my car
   does....)

      I recently ditched my K&N filter for a quality paper element.  I
   just
      replace it each year and really don't feel it impacts my engine
      performance enough for me to notice compared to a K&N filter.  Keep
   it
      simple!
      Sent from my Windows 10 phone
      From: [1]marshallgsmith
      Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 6:12 PM
      To: [2]Mike Drew; [3]Charles McCall
      Cc: [4]<[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com><mailto:[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine help needed - I've got gas! (or my
   car
      does....)
      I would not oil the filter till 'after' the test.The oil restricts
   air
      flow slightly.
      M
      Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
      -------- Original message --------
      From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso <[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com><mailto:[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
      Date: 11/12/16  11:59 AM  (GMT-08:00)
      To: Charles McCall <[10]charlesmccall at gmail.com><mailto:[10]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
      Cc: "<[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com><mailto:[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>"
      <[12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com><mailto:[12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine help needed - I've got gas! (or my
   car
               does....)
      Charlie,
      You likely won't notice a difference with your butt-o-meter. But you
      should definitely just clean the filter. Don't east your time doing
   the
      test drive--use that time to clean the filter instead. There are
   how-to
      videos on Youtube. You should rinse it from the inside out and
   re-oil
      with K&N oil. You can probably find the oil at a motorcycle shop.
      Mike
      Sent from my iPhone
      On Nov 12, 2016, at 9:53, Charles McCall
   <[13]charlesmccall at gmail.com><mailto:[13]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
      wrote:
      > Thank you to all who answered.
      >
      > I understand that a warm engine will contaminate less. The car was
      literally
      > idling for 45 minutes before testing, albeit in 45F ambient
      temperatures, so
      > I think it was properly warmed up. Due to the lines and waiting,
   it
      would be
      > difficult to come off the highway and roll right into a test bay,
   but
      I can
      > let it idle for as long as I'd like before entering the bay. The
      lines tend
      > to be pretty long where I go anyway...
      >
      > I understand that higher rpms will reduce contamination, and
      therefore we
      > should all drive faster to save the planet! I'll raise the rpm a
      little for
      > the test.
      >
      > I'm reluctant to fiddle with leaning out the idle or playing with
   the
      timing
      > - neither have been touched since previous years so I have to
   believe
      that
      > the current settings can work.
      >
      > I'm also cautiously optimistic that the air filter is really,
   really
      > clogged. I've spent a weekend camping at Le Mans Classic in the
   dust,
      driven
      > down a 2,5 km dirt road a bunch of times in Denmark, etc etc.
      Tomorrow it's
      > supposed to be nice so I'll drive around the block with the air
      cleaner
      > removed and see if I notice any difference. If it's clogged enough
   to
      make
      > me fail emissions, maybe I'll notice something with the
      > seat-of-the-pants-o-meter.
      >
      > Thanks again!
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: DeTomaso
   [[5][14]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
      On Behalf
      > Of Asa Jay Laughton
      > Sent: sabado, 12 de noviembre de 2016 17:47
      > To: [15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
      > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine help needed - I've got gas! (or my
   car
      > does....)
      >
      > Also, make sure the engine is good and hot (not
   overheating).  Take
      it
      > for a good long spirited drive and then immediately have the
      emissions
      > tested.  If the line is too long... come back again later.  You
   get
      > better test results when it's been running good and hot for a
   while.
      >
      > Asa
      >
      > Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
      > &  Shelley Marie
      > Spokane, WA
      > ******************************
      > [6][16]http://w7tsc.org
      > [7][17]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
      >
      >
      > On 11/12/2016 3:04 AM, Will Kooiman wrote:
      >> You mean CO and not CO2, right?
      >>
      >> My understanding is to reduce CO and increase Nox, you lean the
   carb
      -
      >> which should also reduce CO2, since it is a byproduct of burning
      gasoline.
      >>
      >> If nothing has changed on your car, perhaps your carburetor just
      needs a
      >> good cleaning.
      >>
      >> The hardest part is knowing if your changes helped without taking
   it
      back
      >> for testing.  It would help if you could take it somewhere and
   tune
      it to
      >> pass.
      >>
      >> On 11/12/16, 5:30 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Charles McCall"
      >> <[18]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
      ><mailto:[18]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.comonbehalfof>> [19]charlesmccall at gmail.com<mailto:19]charlesmccall at gmail.com>>  wrote:
      >>
      >>>   Hi all
      >>>
      >>>   Went for my annual safety/technical inspection yesterday and
      failed
      > due
      >>>   to two points:
      >>>
      >>>   1) My car door handle is damaged as mentioned on the list a
   few
      weeks
      >>>   ago... a replacement is coming for Christmas, but you need to
   be
      able
      >>>   to open the door from outside and inside to pass inspection.
      >>>
      >>>   2) Most worrying is that my CO2 levels were excessively high.
   The
      > limit
      >>>   hasn't been changed compared to former years, this is the same
      engine
      >>>   that has had its emissions tested for the past 15 years and
      nothing
      >>>   that I am aware of has changed. Two questions:
      >>>
      >>>   1) What can I change/check to lower my CO2 levels to pass the
      test?
      >>>   Will begin by cleaning the air filter - to be honest I don't
      remember
      >>>   when I last cleaned it, which tells me something. It's a K&N.
   I
      seem
      > to
      >>>   remember that CO2 levels lower at higher rpms and are highest
   at
      idle?
      >>>   If this is the case then I'll raise the rpms at idle to pass
   the
      test.
      >>>   Any other tricks to temporarily reduce CO2 emissions? I'll be
      happy to
      >>>   share my trick for passing the emergency brake portion, which
      I've
      >>>   pretty much got down pat now due to practice, but not on a
   public
      > forum
      >>>   J
      >>>
      >>>   2) Perhaps more importantly, what is this telling me about my
      engine?
      >>>   Is it sick? Is there something that isn't working properly?
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>   Don't know if it matters but the engine has Aussie closed
   chamber
      >>>   heads, a Compcams 282S solid lifter camshaft, MSD 6AL, a
   massaged
      >>>   Holley 650DP. Don't think I left out anything that could be
      relevant
      >>>   here.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>   I have 20 days to "fix it" and bring it back for re-testing.
      Thanks
      >>>   all!
      >>> _______________________________________________
      >>>
      >>>
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   References
      1. [30]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
      2. [31]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
      3. [32]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
      4. [33]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
      5. [34]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
      6. [35]http://w7tsc.org/
      7. [36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
      8. [37]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
      9. [38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     10. [39]http://www.avg.com/
     11. [40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     12. [41]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     13. [42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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References

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   2. mailto:reillyms at live.com
   3. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
   4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   5. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
   6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   8. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  13. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  14. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  16. http://w7tsc.org/
  17. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  18. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  19. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  22. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  26. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  28. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  29. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  30. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
  31. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  32. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  33. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  34. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  35. http://w7tsc.org/
  36. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  37. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  39. http://www.avg.com/
  40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  41. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  43. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso





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-------------- next part --------------
   We had an university study about these filters years ago. The result
   was basicly, with oil these filters drain less air than a paper filter
   and w/o oil they drain more dirt than paper filters. Reminds me on a
   comment of the German DeTomaso Importer, when i asked him about Group 3
   motors that where absolute bone stock Clevelands:

   Ha, when the wallet is empty the feeling of speed is much better !

   Am 14.11.2016 um 16:18 schrieb Richard Greenblum:

   I may get slammed for this, but here goes anyway.  A long time ago I
   bought into the K&N thing and put them on my daily driver and Pantera.
    Never noticed any difference in performance or milage with either car.
    When my K&N rejuvenation kit ran out of spray, after years of washing
   and re-oiling, I asked a friend of mine who owns a shop and used to be
   an IMSA car crew chief about them.  He said stop screwing with it,
   you're better off with a quality paper filter.

   Richard

   Austin, TX

   From: DeTomaso [1]<[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
   of Mike Reilly [2]<[2]reillyms at live.com>
   Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016 at 14:05
   To: marshallgsmith [3]<[3]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>, MikeDrew
   [4]<[4]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, Charles McCall [5]<[5]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
   Cc: "[6]<[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>"
   [7]<[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine help needed - I've got gas! (or my car
   does....)

      I recently ditched my K&N filter for a quality paper element.  I
   just
      replace it each year and really don't feel it impacts my engine
      performance enough for me to notice compared to a K&N filter.  Keep
   it
      simple!
      Sent from my Windows 10 phone
      From: [1]marshallgsmith
      Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 6:12 PM
      To: [2]Mike Drew; [3]Charles McCall
      Cc: [4][8]<[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine help needed - I've got gas! (or my
   car
      does....)
      I would not oil the filter till 'after' the test.The oil restricts
   air
      flow slightly.
      M
      Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
      -------- Original message --------
      From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso [9]<[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
      Date: 11/12/16  11:59 AM  (GMT-08:00)
      To: Charles McCall [10]<[10]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
      Cc: "[11]<[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>"
      [12]<[12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine help needed - I've got gas! (or my
   car
               does....)
      Charlie,
      You likely won't notice a difference with your butt-o-meter. But you
      should definitely just clean the filter. Don't east your time doing
   the
      test drive--use that time to clean the filter instead. There are
   how-to
      videos on Youtube. You should rinse it from the inside out and
   re-oil
      with K&N oil. You can probably find the oil at a motorcycle shop.
      Mike
      Sent from my iPhone
      On Nov 12, 2016, at 9:53, Charles McCall
   [13]<[13]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
      wrote:
      > Thank you to all who answered.
      >
      > I understand that a warm engine will contaminate less. The car was
      literally
      > idling for 45 minutes before testing, albeit in 45F ambient
      temperatures, so
      > I think it was properly warmed up. Due to the lines and waiting,
   it
      would be
      > difficult to come off the highway and roll right into a test bay,
   but
      I can
      > let it idle for as long as I'd like before entering the bay. The
      lines tend
      > to be pretty long where I go anyway...
      >
      > I understand that higher rpms will reduce contamination, and
      therefore we
      > should all drive faster to save the planet! I'll raise the rpm a
      little for
      > the test.
      >
      > I'm reluctant to fiddle with leaning out the idle or playing with
   the
      timing
      > - neither have been touched since previous years so I have to
   believe
      that
      > the current settings can work.
      >
      > I'm also cautiously optimistic that the air filter is really,
   really
      > clogged. I've spent a weekend camping at Le Mans Classic in the
   dust,
      driven
      > down a 2,5 km dirt road a bunch of times in Denmark, etc etc.
      Tomorrow it's
      > supposed to be nice so I'll drive around the block with the air
      cleaner
      > removed and see if I notice any difference. If it's clogged enough
   to
      make
      > me fail emissions, maybe I'll notice something with the
      > seat-of-the-pants-o-meter.
      >
      > Thanks again!
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: DeTomaso
   [[5][14][14]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
      On Behalf
      > Of Asa Jay Laughton
      > Sent: sabado, 12 de noviembre de 2016 17:47
      > To: [[15]15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
      > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Engine help needed - I've got gas! (or my
   car
      > does....)
      >
      > Also, make sure the engine is good and hot (not
   overheating).  Take
      it
      > for a good long spirited drive and then immediately have the
      emissions
      > tested.  If the line is too long... come back again later.  You
   get
      > better test results when it's been running good and hot for a
   while.
      >
      > Asa
      >
      > Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
      > &  Shelley Marie
      > Spokane, WA
      > ******************************
      > [6][16][16]http://w7tsc.org
      > [7][17][17]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
      >
      >
      > On 11/12/2016 3:04 AM, Will Kooiman wrote:
      >> You mean CO and not CO2, right?
      >>
      >> My understanding is to reduce CO and increase Nox, you lean the
   carb
      -
      >> which should also reduce CO2, since it is a byproduct of burning
      gasoline.
      >>
      >> If nothing has changed on your car, perhaps your carburetor just
      needs a
      >> good cleaning.
      >>
      >> The hardest part is knowing if your changes helped without taking
   it
      back
      >> for testing.  It would help if you could take it somewhere and
   tune
      it to
      >> pass.
      >>
      >> On 11/12/16, 5:30 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Charles McCall"
      >> [18]<[18]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
      >> [[19]19]charlesmccall at gmail.com>  wrote:
      >>
      >>>   Hi all
      >>>
      >>>   Went for my annual safety/technical inspection yesterday and
      failed
      > due
      >>>   to two points:
      >>>
      >>>   1) My car door handle is damaged as mentioned on the list a
   few
      weeks
      >>>   ago... a replacement is coming for Christmas, but you need to
   be
      able
      >>>   to open the door from outside and inside to pass inspection.
      >>>
      >>>   2) Most worrying is that my CO2 levels were excessively high.
   The
      > limit
      >>>   hasn't been changed compared to former years, this is the same
      engine
      >>>   that has had its emissions tested for the past 15 years and
      nothing
      >>>   that I am aware of has changed. Two questions:
      >>>
      >>>   1) What can I change/check to lower my CO2 levels to pass the
      test?
      >>>   Will begin by cleaning the air filter - to be honest I don't
      remember
      >>>   when I last cleaned it, which tells me something. It's a K&N.
   I
      seem
      > to
      >>>   remember that CO2 levels lower at higher rpms and are highest
   at
      idle?
      >>>   If this is the case then I'll raise the rpms at idle to pass
   the
      test.
      >>>   Any other tricks to temporarily reduce CO2 emissions? I'll be
      happy to
      >>>   share my trick for passing the emergency brake portion, which
      I've
      >>>   pretty much got down pat now due to practice, but not on a
   public
      > forum
      >>>   J
      >>>
      >>>   2) Perhaps more importantly, what is this telling me about my
      engine?
      >>>   Is it sick? Is there something that isn't working properly?
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>   Don't know if it matters but the engine has Aussie closed
   chamber
      >>>   heads, a Compcams 282S solid lifter camshaft, MSD 6AL, a
   massaged
      >>>   Holley 650DP. Don't think I left out anything that could be
      relevant
      >>>   here.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>   I have 20 days to "fix it" and bring it back for re-testing.
      Thanks
      >>>   all!
      >>> _______________________________________________
      >>>
      >>>
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      > _______________________________________________
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      _______________________________________________
      Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
      Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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      [[28]28]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
      [13][29][29]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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   References
      1. [30][30]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
      2. [31][31]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
      3. [32][32]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
      4. [33][33]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
      5. [34][34]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
      6. [35][35]http://w7tsc.org/
      7. [36][36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
      8. [37][37]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
      9. [38][38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     10. [39][39]http://www.avg.com/
     11. [40][40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     12. [41][41]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
     13. [42][42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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   [[43]43]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [44][44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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References

   1. [45]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   2. [46]mailto:reillyms at live.com
   3. [47]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
   4. [48]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   5. [49]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
   6. [50]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   7. [51]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   8. [52]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   9. [53]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. [54]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  11. [55]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  12. [56]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  13. [57]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  14. [58]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  15. [59]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  16. [60]http://w7tsc.org/
  17. [61]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  18. [62]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  19. [63]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  20. [64]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  21. [65]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  22. [66]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  23. [67]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  24. [68]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  25. [69]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  26. [70]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  27. [71]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  28. [72]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  29. [73]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  30. [74]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
  31. [75]mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  32. [76]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  33. [77]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  34. [78]mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  35. [79]http://w7tsc.org/
  36. [80]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  37. [81]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  38. [82]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  39. [83]http://www.avg.com/
  40. [84]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  41. [85]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  42. [86]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  43. [87]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  44. [88]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


_______________________________________________


Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the li
nks above.

Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message p
osted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant
the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of lis
t messages.

References

   1. mailto:[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   2. mailto:[2]reillyms at live.com
   3. mailto:[3]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
   4. mailto:[4]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   5. mailto:[5]charlesmccall at gmail.com
   6. mailto:[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   7. mailto:[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   8. mailto:[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   9. mailto:[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. mailto:[10]charlesmccall at gmail.com
  11. mailto:[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  12. mailto:[12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  13. mailto:[13]charlesmccall at gmail.com
  14. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  15. mailto:15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  16. http://w7tsc.org/
  17. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  18. mailto:[18]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.comonbehalfof
  19. mailto:19]charlesmccall at gmail.com
  20. mailto:20]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  22. mailto:22]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  24. mailto:24]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  26. mailto:26]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  28. mailto:28]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  29. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  30. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
  31. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  32. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  33. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  34. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  35. http://w7tsc.org/
  36. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  37. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  39. http://www.avg.com/
  40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  41. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  43. mailto:43]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  45. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  46. mailto:reillyms at live.com
  47. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
  48. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  49. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  50. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  51. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  52. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  53. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  54. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  55. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  56. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  57. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  58. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  59. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  60. http://w7tsc.org/
  61. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  62. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  63. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  64. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  65. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  66. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  67. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  68. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  69. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  70. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  71. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  72. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  73. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  74. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
  75. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  76. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
  77. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  78. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  79. http://w7tsc.org/
  80. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
  81. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  82. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  83. http://www.avg.com/
  84. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  85. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  86. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  87. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  88. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  89. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  90. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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