[DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
Himes, Terry (397C)
terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
Mon May 30 11:19:38 EDT 2016
There is an easy solution. The "POCA member record" database can keep your choice, Paper or PDF.
Not sure "why" there is even a debate.
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
Fax: (818) 393-3147
thimes at jpl.nasa.gov<mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>
🇺🇸
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>> on behalf of fastgrandma via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
Reply-To: fastgrandma <fastgrandma at aol.com<mailto:fastgrandma at aol.com>>
Date: Sunday, May 29, 2016 7:19 PM
To: "pantdino at aol.com<mailto:pantdino at aol.com>" <pantdino at aol.com<mailto:pantdino at aol.com>>, "erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com<mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>" <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com<mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>>, Marshall Smith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net<mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>>
Cc: "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its members: the publications!
At the Rally we heard from several who had various reasons for wanting printed publications only and it would be very wrong to deny that. Maybe those 'other' clubs might do that but that is a good reason to not belong to them.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
To: erichards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com<mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>>; marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net<mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>>
Cc: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:30 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be
color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed.
No?
I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the
old publications online and an improved website the club has more to
offer than ever.
Jim Oddie
-----Original Message-----
From: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com<mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>>
To: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net<mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>>
Cc: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your
work!
Sent from Effie's iPad
> On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith
<[1]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net<mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
>
> Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed
for
> this forum!
>
> Who is this really??
>
> All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number'
of
> projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that
> could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have
felt
> like I won the lottery!
>
> Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest
> bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that
happens,
> I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used
> previously and all is back to normal.
>
> $8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company
> that you have and had comfort with.
>
> The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost
a
> bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000
off
> the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings
would
> still be very sizable.
>
> Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several
> color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and
> will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work
you
> do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
>
> Marshall
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Dick Koch <[2]redcatman74 at gmail.com<mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com>>
> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: Ed Mendez <[3]edducati at mac.com<mailto:edducati at mac.com>>
> Cc: [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
> Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
> non-productive
> comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and
> vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
> It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
> present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does
> nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
their
> persona in the eyes of others.
> From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of
> the
> detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And
make
> no
> mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this
> club
> must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value
add
> to
> it's customers.
> As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
> newsletter,
> for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any
other
> expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
> I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have
> folks
> want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and
> provides
> less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government.
> Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for
> keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
> I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
> newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take
> 3
> minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
> As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.
> Each
> person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on
> every
> issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
pointless.
> Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of
> the
> board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that
> item
> would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
> financial
> implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term
> financial
> health.
> Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
> constructive
> manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and
> therefore non-constructive.
> I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to
> think
> they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
> By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
> comments,
> take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a
blown
> header gasket for years.
> Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
> Dick Koch - Atlanta
> Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
> enough
> to be on the sunny side of the grass.
>> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5]edducati at mac.com<mailto:edducati at mac.com>> wrote:
>> See below.
>>
>>> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6]rkunishige at hotmail.com<mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com>>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
> period
>>> without notice.
>>
>> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at
> 30
>> days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
Ferrari
> club,
>> Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
>>>
>>> The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased
>>> rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
> The
>>> return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply,
> use
>>> the money to pay for our publication costs.
>> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
> chapter
>> presidents.
>>
>>> PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the
> $62.52
>>> publication estimate per MS.
>>
>> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
quotes
> for
>> printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per
> year
>> cheaper than the one we are currently using.
>>>
>>> Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
> Carrying
>>> 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into
> 100,000
>>> means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
>> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
> the
>> bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve.
> You
>> can google there income statements.
>>
>>
>>> OPINION:
>>>
>>> I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote
> but
>>> there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
>>> proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the
>>> actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
>>
>> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we
> have
>> coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
> there
>> very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the
> club
>>
>> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
> should
>> not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If
you
> have
>> an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your
> chapter
>> president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's
> very
>> easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as
> a
>> podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take
> it
>> offline.
>>
>> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
> many
>> others before me, and run for office.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>> (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>>> [8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
>> use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use
>> the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
> Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
> non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many
> very
> personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
> It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
> present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner,
> does
> nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
> their
> persona in the eyes of others.
> From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many
> of
> the detractors do not have much experience in running a business.
> And
> make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To
> thrive,
> this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance
> it's
> value add to it's customers.
> As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
> newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as
> with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
> I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have
> folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive
> and
> provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our
> government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been
> a
> reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
> I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
> newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to
> take
> 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
> As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A
> Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to
> decide
> on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just
> that,
> pointless.
> Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of
> the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving
> that
> item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
> financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long
> term financial health.
> Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
> constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature
> irrelevant and therefore non-constructive.
> I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to
> think they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
> By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
> comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit
> idle
> with a blown header gasket for years.
> Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
> Dick Koch - Atlanta
> Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
> enough to be on the sunny side of the grass.
>> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11]edducati at mac.com<mailto:edducati at mac.com>>
wrote:
>> See below.
>> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige
> <[2][12]rkunishige at hotmail.com<mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com>>
> wrote:
>>
>> A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
> period
>> A without notice.
> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning
> at
> 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
> Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
>>
>> A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10
> increased
>> A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
> place.A The
>> A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A
> Simply, use
>> A the money to pay for our publication costs.
> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
> chapter presidents.
>> A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
> the
> $62.52
>> A publication estimate per MS.
> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
> quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that
> is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
>>
>> A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A
> Carrying
>> A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into
> 100,000
>> A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve
> in
> the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in
> reserve. You can google there income statements.
>> A OPINION:
>>
>> A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4
> vote but
>> A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
>> A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
> the
>> A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions
> for
> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things
> we
> have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in
> fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best
> interest of the club
> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
> should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look
> bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
> preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as
> in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone
> instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of
> MS.
> It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
> many others before me, and run for office.
> Kind regards
>> A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [3][13]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> [4][14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [5][15]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> [6][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> References
> 1. [17]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 2. [18]mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
> 3. [19]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 4. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 5. [21]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [23]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [25]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> [26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[27]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
[28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
2. mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com
3. mailto:edducati at mac.com
4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:edducati at mac.com
6. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
11. mailto:edducati at mac.com
12. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
17. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
18. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com?
19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
25. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
27. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
There is an easy solution. The "POCA member record" database can keep
your choice, Paper or PDF.
Not sure "why" there is even a debate.
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Rosetta Sequence Team Lead
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell: (818) 653-8213
Fax: (818) 393-3147
[1]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
From: DeTomaso <[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of fastgrandma via DeTomaso <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Reply-To: fastgrandma <[4]fastgrandma at aol.com>
Date: Sunday, May 29, 2016 7:19 PM
To: "[5]pantdino at aol.com" <[6]pantdino at aol.com>,
"[7]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com" <[8]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>,
Marshall Smith <[9]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: "[10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do
absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been
sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now
but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their
absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its
members: the publications!
At the Rally we heard from several who had various reasons for wanting
printed publications only and it would be very wrong to deny that.
Maybe those 'other' clubs might do that but that is a good reason to
not belong to them.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <[12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: erichards <[13]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>; marshallgsmith
<[14]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: detomaso <[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:30 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be
color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed.
No?
I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all
the
old publications online and an improved website the club has more to
offer than ever.
Jim Oddie
-----Original Message-----
From: Effie Richards <[16]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
To: marshallgsmith <[17]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: detomaso <[18]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love
your
work!
Sent from Effie's iPad
> On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith
<[1][19]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too
level-headed
for
> this forum!
>
> Who is this really??
>
> All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a
'number'
of
> projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company
that
> could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have
felt
> like I won the lottery!
>
> Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the
lowest
> bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that
happens,
> I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I
used
> previously and all is back to normal.
>
> $8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the
company
> that you have and had comfort with.
>
> The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course
cost
a
> bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving
$8,000
off
> the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings
would
> still be very sizable.
>
> Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of
several
> color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is
and
> will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful
work
you
> do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
>
> Marshall
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Dick Koch <[2][20]redcatman74 at gmail.com>
> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: Ed Mendez <[3][21]edducati at mac.com>
> Cc: [4][22]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
> Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
> non-productive
> comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal
and
> vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
> It is good to have different points of view on club business. But
to
> present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner,
does
> nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
their
> persona in the eyes of others.
> From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many
of
> the
> detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And
make
> no
> mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive,
this
> club
> must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value
add
> to
> it's customers.
> As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
> newsletter,
> for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any
other
> expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
> I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would
have
> folks
> want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and
> provides
> less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our
government.
> Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason
for
> keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
> I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail
the
> newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to
take
> 3
> minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
> As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one
person.
> Each
> person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide
on
> every
> issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
pointless.
> Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member
of
> the
> board to the other members of the board, showing how approving
that
> item
> would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
> financial
> implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term
> financial
> health.
> Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
> constructive
> manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and
> therefore non-constructive.
> I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and
to
> think
> they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
> By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
> comments,
> take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a
blown
> header gasket for years.
> Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
> Dick Koch - Atlanta
> Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
> enough
> to be on the sunny side of the grass.
>> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5][23]edducati at mac.com>
wrote:
>> See below.
>>
>>> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige
<[6][24]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
> period
>>> without notice.
>>
>> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning
at
> 30
>> days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
Ferrari
> club,
>> Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
>>>
>>> The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10
increased
>>> rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
place.
> The
>>> return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply,
> use
>>> the money to pay for our publication costs.
>> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
> chapter
>> presidents.
>>
>>> PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the
> $62.52
>>> publication estimate per MS.
>>
>> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
quotes
> for
>> printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000
per
> year
>> cheaper than the one we are currently using.
>>>
>>> Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
> Carrying
>>> 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into
> 100,000
>>> means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
>> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve
in
> the
>> bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in
reserve.
> You
>> can google there income statements.
>>
>>
>>> OPINION:
>>>
>>> I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4
vote
> but
>>> there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
>>> proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the
>>> actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions
for
>>
>> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things
we
> have
>> coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
> there
>> very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of
the
> club
>>
>> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
> should
>> not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If
you
> have
>> an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your
> chapter
>> president, they are your representative as in any organization.
It's
> very
>> easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list
as
> a
>> podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please
take
> it
>> offline.
>>
>> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
> many
>> others before me, and run for office.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>> (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
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>>> DeTomaso mailing list
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>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
>> use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward
> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the
> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or
> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [9][27]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [10][28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use
>> the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
forward
> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
the
> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or
> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
> Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
> non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many
> very
> personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the
club.
> It is good to have different points of view on club business. But
to
> present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner,
> does
> nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
> their
> persona in the eyes of others.
> From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many
> of
> the detractors do not have much experience in running a business.
> And
> make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To
> thrive,
> this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance
> it's
> value add to it's customers.
> As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
> newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options,
as
> with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
> I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would
have
> folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive
> and
> provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our
> government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has
been
> a
> reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
> I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail
the
> newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to
> take
> 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
> As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one
person.A
> Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to
> decide
> on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just
> that,
> pointless.
> Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member
of
> the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving
> that
> item would benefit the club member's experience, with the
underlying
> financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs
long
> term financial health.
> Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
> constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature
> irrelevant and therefore non-constructive.
> I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and
to
> think they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
> By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
> comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit
> idle
> with a blown header gasket for years.
> Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
> Dick Koch - Atlanta
> Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
> enough to be on the sunny side of the grass.
>> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez"
<[1][11][29]edducati at mac.com>
wrote:
>> See below.
>> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige
> <[2][12][30]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
> period
>> A without notice.
> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning
> at
> 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
> Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
>>
>> A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10
> increased
>> A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
> place.A The
>> A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A
> Simply, use
>> A the money to pay for our publication costs.
> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
> chapter presidents.
>> A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
> the
> $62.52
>> A publication estimate per MS.
> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
> quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that
> is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
>>
>> A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A
> Carrying
>> A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into
> 100,000
>> A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve
> in
> the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in
> reserve. You can google there income statements.
>> A OPINION:
>>
>> A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4
> vote but
>> A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
>> A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
> the
>> A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions
> for
> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things
> we
> have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in
> fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best
> interest of the club
> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
> should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look
> bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
> preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as
> in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone
> instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of
> MS.
> It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
> many others before me, and run for office.
> Kind regards
>> A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [3][13][31]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>
[4][14][32]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [5][15][33]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>
[6][16][34]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> References
> 1. [17][35]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 2. [18][36]mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
> 3. [19][37]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 4.
[20][38]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 5. [21][39]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6.
[22][40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [23][41]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [24][42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [25][43]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [26][44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
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or approve the archiving of list messages.
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[28][46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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References
1. [47]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
2. [48]mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com
3. [49]mailto:edducati at mac.com
4. [50]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. [51]mailto:edducati at mac.com
6. [52]mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
7. [53]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. [54]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
9. [55]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. [56]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
11. [57]mailto:edducati at mac.com
12. [58]mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
13. [59]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. [60]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
15. [61]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. [62]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
17. [63]mailto:edducati at mac.com?
18. [64]mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com?
19. [65]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
20. [66]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
21. [67]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
22. [68]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
23. [69]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
24. [70]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
25. [71]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
26. [72]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
27. [73]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
28. [74]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
_______________________________________________
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[75]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[76]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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References
1. mailto:thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
4. mailto:fastgrandma at aol.com
5. mailto:pantdino at aol.com
6. mailto:pantdino at aol.com
7. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
8. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
9. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
14. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
17. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
18. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
19. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
20. mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com
21. mailto:edducati at mac.com
22. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
23. mailto:edducati at mac.com
24. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
25. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
27. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
29. mailto:edducati at mac.com
30. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
31. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
32. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
33. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
34. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
35. mailto:edducati at mac.com
36. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
37. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
38. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
41. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
43. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
45. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
46. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
47. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
48. mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com
49. mailto:edducati at mac.com
50. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
51. mailto:edducati at mac.com
52. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
53. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
54. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
55. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
56. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
57. mailto:edducati at mac.com
58. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
59. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
60. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
61. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
62. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
63. mailto:edducati at mac.com
64. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
65. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
66. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
67. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
68. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
69. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
70. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
71. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
72. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
73. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
74. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
75. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
76. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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