[DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
Effie Richards
erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
Mon May 30 00:43:58 EDT 2016
My husband, for one, does not "do" computer, which is why I become his voice! I would of course print for him, but what about when I'm not around any longer? Things happen...
Sent from Effie's iPad
> On May 29, 2016, at 7:19 PM, fastgrandma <fastgrandma at aol.com> wrote:
>
> You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its members: the publications!
>
> At the Rally we heard from several who had various reasons for wanting printed publications only and it would be very wrong to deny that. Maybe those 'other' clubs might do that but that is a good reason to not belong to them.
>
> Judy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> To: erichards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>; marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:30 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
>
> I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be
> color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed.
> No?
>
>
>
> I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the
> old publications online and an improved website the club has more to
> offer than ever.
>
>
>
> Jim Oddie
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> To: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
> Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your
> work!
> Sent from Effie's iPad
> > On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith
> <[1]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed
> for
> > this forum!
> >
> > Who is this really??
> >
> > All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number'
> of
> > projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that
> > could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have
> felt
> > like I won the lottery!
> >
> > Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest
> > bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that
> happens,
> > I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used
> > previously and all is back to normal.
> >
> > $8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company
> > that you have and had comfort with.
> >
> > The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost
> a
> > bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000
> off
> > the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings
> would
> > still be very sizable.
> >
> > Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several
> > color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and
> > will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work
> you
> > do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
> >
> > Marshall
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
> >
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: Dick Koch <[2]redcatman74 at gmail.com>
> > Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00)
> > To: Ed Mendez <[3]edducati at mac.com>
> > Cc: [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
> > Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
> > non-productive
> > comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and
> > vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
> > It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
> > present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does
> > nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
> their
> > persona in the eyes of others.
> > From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of
> > the
> > detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And
> make
> > no
> > mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this
> > club
> > must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value
> add
> > to
> > it's customers.
> > As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
> > newsletter,
> > for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any
> other
> > expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
> > I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have
> > folks
> > want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and
> > provides
> > less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government.
> > Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for
> > keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
> > I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
> > newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take
> > 3
> > minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
> > As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.
> > Each
> > person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on
> > every
> > issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
> pointless.
> > Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of
> > the
> > board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that
> > item
> > would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
> > financial
> > implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term
> > financial
> > health.
> > Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
> > constructive
> > manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and
> > therefore non-constructive.
> > I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to
> > think
> > they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
> > By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
> > comments,
> > take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a
> blown
> > header gasket for years.
> > Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
> > Dick Koch - Atlanta
> > Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
> > enough
> > to be on the sunny side of the grass.
> >> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5]edducati at mac.com> wrote:
> >> See below.
> >>
> >>> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
> > period
> >>> without notice.
> >>
> >> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at
> > 30
> >> days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
> Ferrari
> > club,
> >> Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
> >>>
> >>> The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased
> >>> rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
> > The
> >>> return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply,
> > use
> >>> the money to pay for our publication costs.
> >> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
> > chapter
> >> presidents.
> >>
> >>> PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the
> > $62.52
> >>> publication estimate per MS.
> >>
> >> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
> quotes
> > for
> >> printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per
> > year
> >> cheaper than the one we are currently using.
> >>>
> >>> Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
> > Carrying
> >>> 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into
> > 100,000
> >>> means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
> >> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
> > the
> >> bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve.
> > You
> >> can google there income statements.
> >>
> >>
> >>> OPINION:
> >>>
> >>> I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote
> > but
> >>> there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
> >>> proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the
> >>> actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
> >>
> >> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we
> > have
> >> coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
> > there
> >> very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the
> > club
> >>
> >> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
> > should
> >> not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If
> you
> > have
> >> an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your
> > chapter
> >> president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's
> > very
> >> easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as
> > a
> >> podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take
> > it
> >> offline.
> >>
> >> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
> > many
> >> others before me, and run for office.
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >>
> >>> (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>> [7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> [8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>>
> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> > etc.)
> >> use the links above.
> >>>
> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> > any
> >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> > list.
> >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> > approve
> >> the archiving of list messages.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> [9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
> > use
> >> the links above.
> >>
> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> > any
> >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> > list.
> >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> > approve
> >> the archiving of list messages.
> > Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
> > non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many
> > very
> > personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
> > It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
> > present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner,
> > does
> > nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
> > their
> > persona in the eyes of others.
> > From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many
> > of
> > the detractors do not have much experience in running a business.
> > And
> > make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To
> > thrive,
> > this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance
> > it's
> > value add to it's customers.
> > As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
> > newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as
> > with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
> > I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have
> > folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive
> > and
> > provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our
> > government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been
> > a
> > reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
> > I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
> > newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to
> > take
> > 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
> > As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A
> > Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to
> > decide
> > on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just
> > that,
> > pointless.
> > Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of
> > the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving
> > that
> > item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
> > financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long
> > term financial health.
> > Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
> > constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature
> > irrelevant and therefore non-constructive.
> > I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to
> > think they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
> > By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
> > comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit
> > idle
> > with a blown header gasket for years.
> > Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
> > Dick Koch - Atlanta
> > Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
> > enough to be on the sunny side of the grass.
> >> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11]edducati at mac.com>
> wrote:
> >> See below.
> >> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige
> > <[2][12]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
> > period
> >> A without notice.
> > False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning
> > at
> > 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
> > Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
> >>
> >> A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10
> > increased
> >> A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
> > place.A The
> >> A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A
> > Simply, use
> >> A the money to pay for our publication costs.
> > False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
> > chapter presidents.
> >> A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
> > the
> > $62.52
> >> A publication estimate per MS.
> > That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
> > quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that
> > is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
> >>
> >> A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A
> > Carrying
> >> A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into
> > 100,000
> >> A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
> > False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve
> > in
> > the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in
> > reserve. You can google there income statements.
> >> A OPINION:
> >>
> >> A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4
> > vote but
> >> A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
> >> A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
> > the
> >> A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions
> > for
> > False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things
> > we
> > have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in
> > fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best
> > interest of the club
> > This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
> > should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look
> > bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
> > preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as
> > in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone
> > instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of
> > MS.
> > It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
> > If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
> > many others before me, and run for office.
> > Kind regards
> >> A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> [3][13]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> [4][14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> > etc.) use the links above.
> >>
> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> > forward
> > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> > the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> > archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [5][15]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > [6][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> > etc.) use the links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> > the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> > archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > References
> > 1. [17]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> > 2. [18]mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
> > 3. [19]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 4. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 5. [21]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 6. [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [23]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use the links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any
> > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive
> > or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [25]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > [26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [27]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 2. mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com
> 3. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 5. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 6. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 11. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 12. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
> 13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 17. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
> 18. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com?
> 19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
> 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
> 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 25. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 27. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
-------------- next part --------------
My husband, for one, does not "do" computer, which is why I become his
voice! I would of course print for him, but what about when I'm not
around any longer? Things happen...
Sent from Effie's iPad
On May 29, 2016, at 7:19 PM, fastgrandma <[1]fastgrandma at aol.com>
wrote:
You have to realize that not everyone has a computer and some that do
absolutely do not want their Newsletter online. The Newsletter has been
sent as a pdf to the Eruopeans and members in Canada for some time now
but even there, a couple want paper copies and that should be their
absolute right since that is the one thing that the club does for its
members: the publications!
At the Rally we heard from several who had various reasons for wanting
printed publications only and it would be very wrong to deny that.
Maybe those 'other' clubs might do that but that is a good reason to
not belong to them.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: Pantdino via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
To: erichards <[3]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>; marshallgsmith
<[4]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: detomaso <[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:30 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be
color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed.
No?
I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the
old publications online and an improved website the club has more to
offer than ever.
Jim Oddie
-----Original Message-----
From: Effie Richards <[6]erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
To: marshallgsmith <[7]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: detomaso <[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your
work!
Sent from Effie's iPad
> On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith
<[1][9]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed
for
> this forum!
>
> Who is this really??
>
> All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number'
of
> projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that
> could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have
felt
> like I won the lottery!
>
> Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest
> bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that
happens,
> I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used
> previously and all is back to normal.
>
> $8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company
> that you have and had comfort with.
>
> The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost
a
> bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000
off
> the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings
would
> still be very sizable.
>
> Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several
> color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and
> will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work
you
> do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
>
> Marshall
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Dick Koch <[2][10]redcatman74 at gmail.com>
> Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: Ed Mendez <[3][11]edducati at mac.com>
> Cc: [4][12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
> Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
> non-productive
> comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and
> vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
> It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
> present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does
> nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
their
> persona in the eyes of others.
> From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of
> the
> detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And
make
> no
> mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this
> club
> must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value
add
> to
> it's customers.
> As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
> newsletter,
> for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any
other
> expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
> I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have
> folks
> want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and
> provides
> less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government.
> Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for
> keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
> I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
> newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take
> 3
> minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
> As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.
> Each
> person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on
> every
> issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
pointless.
> Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of
> the
> board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that
> item
> would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
> financial
> implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term
> financial
> health.
> Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
> constructive
> manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and
> therefore non-constructive.
> I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to
> think
> they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
> By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
> comments,
> take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a
blown
> header gasket for years.
> Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
> Dick Koch - Atlanta
> Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
> enough
> to be on the sunny side of the grass.
>> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5][13]edducati at mac.com>
wrote:
>> See below.
>>
>>> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige
<[6][14]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
> period
>>> without notice.
>>
>> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at
> 30
>> days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
Ferrari
> club,
>> Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
>>>
>>> The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased
>>> rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
> The
>>> return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply,
> use
>>> the money to pay for our publication costs.
>> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
> chapter
>> presidents.
>>
>>> PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the
> $62.52
>>> publication estimate per MS.
>>
>> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
quotes
> for
>> printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per
> year
>> cheaper than the one we are currently using.
>>>
>>> Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
> Carrying
>>> 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into
> 100,000
>>> means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
>> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
> the
>> bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve.
> You
>> can google there income statements.
>>
>>
>>> OPINION:
>>>
>>> I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote
> but
>>> there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
>>> proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the
>>> actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
>>
>> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we
> have
>> coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
> there
>> very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the
> club
>>
>> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
> should
>> not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If
you
> have
>> an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your
> chapter
>> president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's
> very
>> easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as
> a
>> podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take
> it
>> offline.
>>
>> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
> many
>> others before me, and run for office.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>> (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [7][15]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>> [8][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
>> use the links above.
>>>
>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [9][17]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [10][18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use
>> the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any
>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list.
>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> approve
>> the archiving of list messages.
> Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
> non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many
> very
> personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
> It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
> present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner,
> does
> nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
> their
> persona in the eyes of others.
> From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many
> of
> the detractors do not have much experience in running a business.
> And
> make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To
> thrive,
> this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance
> it's
> value add to it's customers.
> As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
> newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as
> with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
> I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have
> folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive
> and
> provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our
> government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been
> a
> reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
> I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
> newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to
> take
> 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
> As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A
> Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to
> decide
> on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just
> that,
> pointless.
> Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of
> the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving
> that
> item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
> financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long
> term financial health.
> Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
> constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature
> irrelevant and therefore non-constructive.
> I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to
> think they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
> By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
> comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit
> idle
> with a blown header gasket for years.
> Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
> Dick Koch - Atlanta
> Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
> enough to be on the sunny side of the grass.
>> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11][19]edducati at mac.com>
wrote:
>> See below.
>> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige
> <[2][12][20]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
> period
>> A without notice.
> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning
> at
> 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
> Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
>>
>> A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10
> increased
>> A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
> place.A The
>> A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A
> Simply, use
>> A the money to pay for our publication costs.
> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
> chapter presidents.
>> A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
> the
> $62.52
>> A publication estimate per MS.
> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
> quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that
> is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
>>
>> A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A
> Carrying
>> A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into
> 100,000
>> A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve
> in
> the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in
> reserve. You can google there income statements.
>> A OPINION:
>>
>> A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4
> vote but
>> A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
>> A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
> the
>> A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions
> for
> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things
> we
> have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in
> fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best
> interest of the club
> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
> should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look
> bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
> preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as
> in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone
> instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of
> MS.
> It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
> many others before me, and run for office.
> Kind regards
>> A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [3][13][21]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [4][14][22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [5][15][23]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [6][16][24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.) use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> References
> 1. [17][25]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 2. [18][26]mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
> 3. [19][27]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 4. [20][28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 5. [21][29]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. [22][30]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [23][31]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [24][32]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [25][33]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [26][34]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[27][35]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[28][36]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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References
1. [37]mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
2. [38]mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com
3. [39]mailto:edducati at mac.com
4. [40]mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. [41]mailto:edducati at mac.com
6. [42]mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
7. [43]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. [44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
9. [45]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. [46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
11. [47]mailto:edducati at mac.com
12. [48]mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
13. [49]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. [50]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
15. [51]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. [52]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
17. [53]mailto:edducati at mac.com?
18. [54]mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com?
19. [55]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
20. [56]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
21. [57]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
22. [58]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
23. [59]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
24. [60]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
25. [61]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
26. [62]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
27. [63]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
28. [64]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
[65]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
[66]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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References
1. mailto:fastgrandma at aol.com
2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
3. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
4. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. mailto:erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com
7. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
8. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
10. mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com
11. mailto:edducati at mac.com
12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. mailto:edducati at mac.com
14. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
19. mailto:edducati at mac.com
20. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
25. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
26. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com?
27. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
29. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
30. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
31. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
32. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
33. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
34. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
35. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
36. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
37. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net?
38. mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com?
39. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
40. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
41. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
42. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com?
43. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
45. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
46. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
47. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
48. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com?
49. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
50. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
51. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
52. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
53. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
54. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com?
55. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
56. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
57. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
58. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
59. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
60. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
61. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
62. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
63. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
64. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
65. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
66. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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