[DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
Will Kooiman
will.kooiman at gmail.com
Sun May 29 21:57:21 EDT 2016
I don¹t think there¹s anyone in the club that thinks it¹s a bad idea to
³bid out² to find someone that will publish for cheaper.
The issue is around the need to increase dues, while also switching to
full color for the newsletter, especially when we also have a quarterly
(sometimes) Profiles. If we need to cut costs, don¹t increase them by
making the newsletter full color. It isn¹t needed.
The best suggestion is to combine the newsletter and Profiles, and to
switch to bi-monthly instead of quarterly. That cuts the mailings to 6
instead of 12, and the printings to 6 instead of 16. It also gives the
appearance of a more cohesive club. Something like this was suggested a
few years ago, and while it obviously died, I didn¹t hear any of the
arguments for/against.
On 5/29/16, 8:29 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Pantdino via DeTomaso"
<detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> I thought the newsletter was going to be online only (hence will be
> color for free) , while only the Profiles will on paper and mailed.
> No?
>
>
>
> I don't see why anyone would not renew their membership-- with all the
> old publications online and an improved website the club has more to
> offer than ever.
>
>
>
> Jim Oddie
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Effie Richards <erichards at zogob.sdcoxmail.com>
> To: marshallgsmith <marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Sun, May 29, 2016 5:08 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
> Well said Marshall! Many Kudos to Jack DeRyke from me too! We love your
> work!
> Sent from Effie's iPad
> > On May 29, 2016, at 4:05 PM, marshallgsmith
> <[1]marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > Now wait a minute Dick, what you write here is WAY too level-headed
> for
> > this forum!
> >
> > Who is this really??
> >
> > All joking aside, I obtain multiple bids for every one of a 'number'
> of
> > projects that I need to conduct every year. If I found a company that
> > could save me $8,000 a year on a particular project, I would have
> felt
> > like I won the lottery!
> >
> > Sure, every once in a while the new company who submitted the lowest
> > bid does not do as good of a job of the old one but when that
> happens,
> > I go back to the next bid which sometimes was the same company I used
> > previously and all is back to normal.
> >
> > $8,000 a year is an awful lot of money just to stay with the company
> > that you have and had comfort with.
> >
> > The statement of adding color to the newsletter would of course cost
> a
> > bit more money but when you consider that we would be saving $8,000
> off
> > the top, we have a touch more money to play with and the savings
> would
> > still be very sizable.
> >
> > Plus, if any car club newsletter in this country is worthy of several
> > color pages, it absolutely would be Jack DeRyke's!! This club is and
> > will be indebted to you forever Jack! Thanks for the wonderful work
> you
> > do to keep our colorful jalopies on the road!!
> >
> > Marshall
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
> >
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: Dick Koch <[2]redcatman74 at gmail.com>
> > Date: 05/29/2016 9:57 AM (GMT-08:00)
> > To: Ed Mendez <[3]edducati at mac.com>
> > Cc: [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Membership Dues Analysis
> > Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
> > non-productive
> > comments that have been made in recent weeks, many very personal and
> > vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
> > It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
> > present one's point of view in a negative and personal manner, does
> > nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
> their
> > persona in the eyes of others.
> > From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many of
> > the
> > detractors do not have much experience in running a business. And
> make
> > no
> > mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To thrive, this
> > club
> > must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance it's value
> add
> > to
> > it's customers.
> > As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
> > newsletter,
> > for the board to not look for less expensive options, as with any
> other
> > expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
> > I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have
> > folks
> > want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive and
> > provides
> > less for much more money. We have enough cronyism in our government.
> > Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been a reason for
> > keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
> > I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
> > newsletter, that can be printed by anyone that is not to lazy to take
> > 3
> > minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
> > As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.
> > Each
> > person on the board has a say, with a majority required to decide on
> > every
> > issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just that,
> pointless.
> > Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of
> > the
> > board to the other members of the board, showing how approving that
> > item
> > would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
> > financial
> > implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long term
> > financial
> > health.
> > Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
> > constructive
> > manner, with negative comments of a personal nature irrelevant and
> > therefore non-constructive.
> > I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to
> > think
> > they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
> > By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
> > comments,
> > take it out on me. I deserve it for letting 6831 sit idle with a
> blown
> > header gasket for years.
> > Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
> > Dick Koch - Atlanta
> > Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
> > enough
> > to be on the sunny side of the grass.
> >> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[5]edducati at mac.com> wrote:
> >> See below.
> >>
> >>> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige <[6]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
> > period
> >>> without notice.
> >>
> >> False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning at
> > 30
> >> days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
> Ferrari
> > club,
> >> Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
> >>>
> >>> The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10 increased
> >>> rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first place.
> > The
> >>> return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven. Simply,
> > use
> >>> the money to pay for our publication costs.
> >> False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
> > chapter
> >> presidents.
> >>
> >>> PROPOSED: $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund the
> > $62.52
> >>> publication estimate per MS.
> >>
> >> That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
> quotes
> > for
> >> printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that is $8000 per
> > year
> >> cheaper than the one we are currently using.
> >>>
> >>> Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.
> > Carrying
> >>> 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year. Divide that into
> > 100,000
> >>> means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
> >> False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve in
> > the
> >> bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in reserve.
> > You
> >> can google there income statements.
> >>
> >>
> >>> OPINION:
> >>>
> >>> I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4 vote
> > but
> >>> there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
> >>> proposed. Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing the
> >>> actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions for
> >>
> >> False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things we
> > have
> >> coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in fact
> > there
> >> very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best interest of the
> > club
> >>
> >> This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
> > should
> >> not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look bad. If
> you
> > have
> >> an issue talk with someone about your concern, preferably your
> > chapter
> >> president, they are your representative as in any organization. It's
> > very
> >> easy to simply pick up the phone instead of using this email list as
> > a
> >> podium for your disdain of MS. It's obvious, we get it. Please take
> > it
> >> offline.
> >>
> >> If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
> > many
> >> others before me, and run for office.
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >>
> >>> (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> >>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>> [7]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>> [8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>>
> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> > etc.)
> >> use the links above.
> >>>
> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> > any
> >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> > list.
> >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> > approve
> >> the archiving of list messages.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> [9]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
> > use
> >> the links above.
> >>
> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> > any
> >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> > list.
> >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
> > approve
> >> the archiving of list messages.
> > Ed, thanks for the clarification of the misinformation and
> > non-productive comments that have been made in recent weeks, many
> > very
> > personal and vindictive, and quite frankly detrimental to the club.
> > It is good to have different points of view on club business. But to
> > present one's point of view in a negative and personalA manner,
> > does
> > nothing but diminish that person's potentially valued point, and
> > their
> > persona in the eyes of others.
> > From some of the comments made, it appears obvious to me that many
> > of
> > the detractors do not have much experience in running a business.
> > And
> > make no mistake POCA is a business, albeit a non-profit one. To
> > thrive,
> > this club must not stand on it's laurels, but continue to enhance
> > it's
> > value add to it's customers.
> > As far as looking at the printer used for the production of the
> > newsletter, for the board to not look for less expensive options, as
> > with any other expense, with better offerings, is irresponsible.
> > I can only wonder what is going on behind the scenes that would have
> > folks want to stay with a service provider that is noncompetitive
> > and
> > provides less for much more money.A We have enough cronyism in our
> > government. Hopefully that is not the case here, and there has been
> > a
> > reason for keeping a more expensive service that provides less.
> > I won't bother to comment on the absurdity of continuing to mail the
> > newsletter, that can be printed by anyoneA that is not to lazy to
> > take
> > 3 minutes to print it, since that may be construed as negative.
> > As regards to a point Ed stated, the club is not run by one person.A
> > Each person on the board has a say, with a majority required to
> > decide
> > on every issue. Pointing ones frustration at one person is just
> > that,
> > pointless.
> > Items approved by the board, were "sold" to the board by a member of
> > the board to the other members of the board, showing how approving
> > that
> > item would benefit the club member's experience, with the underlying
> > financial implications outlined that would strengthen the clubs long
> > term financial health.
> > Constructive criticism is just that: criticism presented in a
> > constructive manner, with negative comments of a personal nature
> > irrelevant and therefore non-constructive.
> > I for one think the new POCA board is doing a fantastic job, and to
> > think they are doing their job for free. What a deal...
> > By the way, if someone feels they want to get personal with their
> > comments, take it out on me.A I deserve it for letting 6831 sit
> > idle
> > with a blown header gasket for years.
> > Peace, fellow "cat" owners.
> > Dick Koch - Atlanta
> > Still one of the few remaining original Pantera owners still lucky
> > enough to be on the sunny side of the grass.
> >> On May 29, 2016 2:12 AM, "Ed Mendez" <[1][11]edducati at mac.com>
> wrote:
> >> See below.
> >> On 28/05/2016, at 11:53, Rod Kunishige
> > <[2][12]rkunishige at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> A It is interesting that this President changed a generous grace
> > period
> >> A without notice.
> > False it's in the bylaws and has been for some time now. Warning
> > at
> > 30 days, at 60 days the membership expires, check the Fiat club,
> > Ferrari club, Porsche club, they all have similar rules.
> >>
> >> A The so-called "shortfall" is created in part by the $10
> > increased
> >> A rebate to the chapters that was NOT requested in the first
> > place.A The
> >> A return of this sum places the club at nearly breakeven.A
> > Simply, use
> >> A the money to pay for our publication costs.
> > False - check your facts, the rebate was welcome by the majority
> > chapter presidents.
> >> A PROPOSED:A $75 dues less $15 to chapters yields $60 to fund
> > the
> > $62.52
> >> A publication estimate per MS.
> > That is true, and that is why we are trying to get competitive
> > quotes for printing to try and save money. MS found a printer that
> > is $8000 per year cheaper than the one we are currently using.
> >>
> >> A Our $100,000 reserve would easily fund the $2.52 per year.A
> > Carrying
> >> A 853 members at $2.52 is $2,149.56 per year.A Divide that into
> > 100,000
> >> A means funding covers 46.5 YEARS.
> > False - check your facts, most non profits have two year reserve
> > in
> > the bank, the Ferrari and Porsche clubs have $1,000,000 each in
> > reserve. You can google there income statements.
> >> A OPINION:
> >>
> >> A I do recognize that Mr. Shortt controls the Board by a 5 to 4
> > vote but
> >> A there I think that this is a better solution than what MS has
> >> A proposed.A Finally, kudos goes to him for at least publishing
> > the
> >> A actions he intends to take so we may make positive suggestions
> > for
> > False, if you look at the meeting minutes of the BOD, most things
> > we
> > have coated on have been either unanimous vote or close to it, in
> > fact there very few times it was 5-4. Again we vote in the best
> > interest of the club
> > This forum is supposed to be about DeTomaso, hence the name; and
> > should not be used for POCA bashing, it really makes us all look
> > bad. If you have an issue talk with someone about your concern,
> > preferably your chapter president, they are your representative as
> > in any organization. It's very easy to simply pick up the phone
> > instead of using this email list as a podium for your disdain of
> > MS.
> > It's obvious, we get it. Please take it offline.
> > If you think you can do a better job than volunteer as I did, and
> > many others before me, and run for office.
> > Kind regards
> >> A (Information taken from the Presidents Blog.)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> [3][13]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >> [4][14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> > etc.) use the links above.
> >>
> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> > forward
> > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> > the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> > archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [5][15]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > [6][16]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> > etc.) use the links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> > any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> > the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> > archive or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > References
> > 1. [17]mailto:edducati at mac.com
> > 2. [18]mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
> > 3. [19]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 4. [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 5. [21]mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 6. [22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [23]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > [24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> > use the links above.
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any
> > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive
> > or approve the archiving of list messages.
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [25]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > [26]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> >
> > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [27]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [28]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
>References
>
> 1. mailto:marshallgsmith at sbcglobal.net
> 2. mailto:redcatman74 at gmail.com
> 3. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 5. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 6. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 9. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 11. mailto:edducati at mac.com
> 12. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com
> 13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 17. mailto:edducati at mac.com?
> 18. mailto:rkunishige at hotmail.com?
> 19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
> 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com?
> 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 25. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 26. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 27. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 28. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>_______________________________________________
>
>
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>Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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>http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
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>
>Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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>They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or
>approve the archiving of list messages.
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